patrick.net

Even if we assume that the "Tea Party" is the message...what is the message of the Tea Party? Can you give some specifics? At best I've heard ridiculously broad statements like, lower taxes, reduce deficits, protect borders, energy independence, etc. Yet, most economists believe if you extend the tax cut to the wealthy it will increase the deficit $4T over 10 years. The same people who want to keep illegals out have no problem employing them on their farms and in their businesses. Seems conflicted. So, how about some concrete plans RayAmerica?

Also, how does your "fat tax" fit in the tea party movement? I thought they were against more taxes and intruding on individual liberties...

If every poll indicates Americans are against ObamaCare, then they will be refusing to take advantage of any of it's odious provisions. Yes?

Don't be too smug Ray - a good portion of this election was "the economy sucks" and the Democrats just happened to be holding the reins. Did you forget what happened in '08? And I imagine a lot of people weren't so much against Obamacare as much as why the hell did we spend all of our time arguing about that when people were losing their jobs. It gave the impression that the dems were fiddling while Rome was burning. The half-assed second "stimulus" was a day late and a dollar short.

If the economy still sucks in 2012 Obama will blame the republicans and will probably win. If the economy picks up he'll claim victory and will probably win unless the republicans can find some superstar that can override the Obama persona. Last I checked, their bull pen is full of has-beens and nutjobs.

Obama bad, conservos good. That's rayray's message, and he believes that he speaks for the American people.

Blowhard. This election was about people being pissed about the economy, and the nastiness of Washington, Faux news and the media in general sending out a message that the world is coming to an end. Politics is nasty gridlock.

Sour grapes from the losers. What else would you expect? LOL

Ray, can you just answer my simple questions or do you not have any thoughts of your own?

ch_tah says

do you not have any thoughts of your own?

;)

Troy says

The majority of the American people did not vote.

Yeah and why is that, or at least where was the Liberal out pouring to the young people to get out and Vote, and how important it is to vote?

Oh yeah that's right, the Liberals have been sucking Ass for the last two years, and played the young voters for suckers, two years ago, that are all but ignored now. (2milliion dollar tuition anyone?).

Yeah probably best to lay low for another two, years, wait for the pimple 16ners and 17ners to grow up and hit them up with fresh lies, next election.

Because Lord Forbid had the Democrats really got out and spreaded the "Get out and Vote" message.

There would be a Republican Senate today.

And a possible Call back election on Obama, the Yoot is about tired of his shit too. Even King Lib Stewart is starting to bite 'em in the Ass.

This election was also an enormous referendum against Obama. Consider this: since becoming President, Obama has visited the key state of Ohio a whopping 60 times, campaigning heavily for various candidates. Almost every candidate he campaigned for went down in defeat, including his big supporter Gov. Strickland. His old Senate seat (not very old, he held it for like 2 seconds), was lost to a GOPer even though Obama campaigned heavily for Alexi Giannoulias (maybe that’s why he lost). Big name Democrats such as Russ Feingold & Blanche Lincoln; defeated. Rubio in FLA, Toomey in Pa .... huge defeats for Obama. A pickup of 9 Governorships for the GOP. This should be a very interesting two years. Will Obama move towards the will of the people, or will he maintain his dictatorial, ideological socialist course? Only time will tell.

shrekgrinch says

The message didn’t get heard in California. The ‘wave’ stopped at the California border. In fact, California truly is now the “Peoples’ Republic of Kalifornia” in fact as well as in humor.

Who is surprised? I mean, if you built a fence around the entire state (except for the North) you'd have the world's largest insane asylum. Now they have that nutcase Governor Moonbeam back. He's perfect solution for that failed state of loonies. I feel very sorry for the few sane people that didn't take leave and remain.

As far as Reid, I can't understand how anyone could vote for that slimy weasel, but then again, read some of the posts on this site. Barney Frank's district proved once again that Massachusetts voters are nuts as well by returning one of the main architects of the housing bubble.

skrek .... I look for the race card being played on a level we've never seen before. I watched C-SPAN last night on the net ... they had callers from all over the country. Quite a few were already harping "it's because Obama is Black .... blah blah blah."

RayAmerica says

I look for the race card being played on a level we’ve never seen before.

This makes no sense given that a person of color is now the new House majority leader.

RayAmerica says

As far as Reid, I can’t understand how anyone could vote for that slimy weasel, but then again, read some of the posts on this site

He won because Angle is a bigger moron than he is. Ditto in Delaware. You can't call the other guy an idiot and propose a bigger idiot as an alternative. Any "normal" human being would have cleaned Reid's clock in this election. Alvin Greene would have done better than Angle and he can't even figure out how to tie his shoes.

RayAmerica says

As far as Reid, I can’t understand how anyone could vote for that slimy weasel

Hmmm.. I wonder, what could it be.... obviously it could NOT be a rejection of a Teabagger nutbar.

This election showed deft political maneuvering on part of the GOP leadership, who will simply go back to doing exactly what they did the last time they were in power.

The good news is that they don't hold the presidency, so at least their absurd military policies will be kept in check.

Kevin says

The good news is that they don’t hold the presidency, so at least their absurd military policies will be kept in check.

Are you referring to Obama's ("their absurd military policies)? I hope so. I've considered Obama's huge expansion in Afghanistan totally absurd. Don't you?

If Obama had prosecuted and jailed all criminal bankers, and then used the generated momentum to renege on Bush-Paulson's TARP and nationalize all the banks, then enough people would have been been happy and voted for him, even with the great recession going on.

Kevin says

This election showed deft political maneuvering on part of the GOP leadership, who will simply go back to doing exactly what they did the last time they were in power.

The good news is that they don’t hold the presidency, so at least their absurd military policies will be kept in check.

It is an incredibly sad aspect of the structure of our 2-party political system that the party that does not give a damn nearly always can engineer a win over the party that is trying desperately to fix our problems.

Here's the message from this election:

It's the dumbest 4% of the voters (the middle) that determine the outcome. If the dumbest voters were not such flip-floppers, the politicians would not have to be, either.

American politics is determined by the lowest common denominator of the electorate..

Our country is controlled by corporations that play the 2 parties against each other, manipulate the dumbest 4%, and conquer us all in the process.

We need a real democracy, not a fake-democratic 2-party system

shrekgrinch says

Unfortunately, the bankers own both parties.

They only own the parties because they can pitt them against each other. If we had a real democracy this would not happen.

RayAmerica says

Troy …. hold to that attitude. You and your like-minded will be in for another earthquake come 2012.

I am sure that the Emancipation Proclamation will be overturned and rednecks will run rampant in the streets with their six shooters once again -- lynching blacks, mexicans, asians and homosexuals at will along while suppressing the women who raised them.

You might also be able to lower minimum wage while your at it...go ahead and say it "Dey Tuk our Jerbs!"

justme says

Here’s the message from this election:
It’s the dumbest 4% of the voters (the middle) that determine the outcome. If the dumbest voters were not such flip-floppers, the politicians would not have to be, either.
American politics is determined by the lowest common denominator of the electorate..
Our country is controlled by corporations that play the 2 parties against each other, manipulate the dumbest 4%, and conquer us all in the process.
We need a real democracy, not a fake-democratic 2-party system

Good view on the whole situation.

RayAmerica says

Kevin says

The good news is that they don’t hold the presidency, so at least their absurd military policies will be kept in check.

Are you referring to Obama’s (”their absurd military policies)? I hope so. I’ve considered Obama’s huge expansion in Afghanistan totally absurd. Don’t you?

Should Obama pull out, let the Taliban run amok, and hope, pray and wish that we dont suffer the same blowback as we did with Iran/Iraq during the 80s?...or should we do the sensible thing and stablize the country first?

justme says

If Obama had prosecuted and jailed all criminal bankers, and then used the generated momentum to renege on Bush-Paulson’s TARP and nationalize all the banks, then enough people would have been been happy and voted for him, even with the great recession going on.

I think all Obama needed to do was to send HB1 and othee "guest workers" home and seal the border, and the election would have been very different.

If Obama was more than a Yepity Yes Man, and his administration less hubris and more integrity when they used words like "Transparency" in esoteric ways. It would have been a repeat of 08, and I wouldn't have gotten any sleep last night, as every car in Broward would have been whoopty dooing up and down the streets all night long blowing their horn.

shrekgrinch says

justme says

They only own the parties because they can pitt them against each other. If we had a real democracy this would not happen.

They own both parties because they own ALL of the politicans. They own all of the politicians because they own the money supply.

They don' t really own all the politicians, but all politicians are AFRAID of corporations because corporations can go district-by-district and spend money on flipping the dumbest 4% of the voters to whichever side they want.

THIS is the real reason politicans will not stand up to corporations. Especially after the Citizens United supreme court case, which created a free-for-all in corporate spending.

The net result is that in ANY district, the candidates and representatives are beholden to corporate interests. Democrats try not to be, but as long as 4% of the voters can flip-flop the election results, this is what will always happen.

Oh yeah! And ummm uh,

"Move on!"

Let's hold hands and chant change now that the election is over...

Oh wait a minute, that only gets em going with elaborate back drops, and corporate sponsorship, ah phewee!

justme says

but as long as 4% of the voters can flip-flop the election results, this is what will always happen

It's worse than that. 4% victory margin is a 2% flip.

1 voter out of 50.

Tenouncetrout says

Oh yeah! And ummm uh,
“Move on!”

In between all this gloating don't you guys occasionally have these moments where you stop and find it odd that all your 'people power' candidates are financed by and now are totally beholden to those corporate interests? and that in opposition to all the 'accountability' you continuously scream about it was done under the veil of total campaign contribution secrecy?

just sayin'.

I'm gonna go with something like this as the explanation for the current series of losses:

"Democrats lost because party leaders never truly fought for popular progressive reforms like the public option and breaking up the big banks, leaving voters uninspired to come to the polls and vote Democratic. What the average voter saw of Democrats was weak, watered-down change -- and weak Democratic leaders who cut deals with the very Wall Street banks and insurance companies they are supposed to be fighting."

and this:

"Our country still faces many challenges as we try to recover from the worst economic downturn since the 1930s. Last night's election was not a mandate for the Republican vision of America, which is built around tax cuts for the super-wealthy and privatizing Social Security and Medicare. Instead, last night we saw an anxious and frustrated electorate rejecting the status quo in the only way possible: by voting out those in power. And we saw their frustration effectively exploited by corporate front groups whose sole interest is promoting their own political agenda."

I look forward to 6 or 10 months to see what kind of tone has replaced the current round of ghoulish pants wetting posts.

RayAmerica says

Every poll indicated, without question, the majority of the American people were against Obamacare

and this, by the way, is total bs.

"Make no mistake about it; this election was a huge victory for the Tea Party movement..."

No it wasn't. Only 30% of Tea Party candistes won, versus about 80% of Democratic candidates. The Republicans had Delaware and Nevada in the bag, but Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell, both Tea Party candidates, gave them to the Democrats!

shrekgrinch says

CNN Poll: Americans Oppose Obamacare 56% to 43% [link]
CBS Poll: Americans Oppose Obamacare 53 to 32 percent [link]
Gallup: Americans Want Congress to Shelve Obamacare [link]

The Standard... National Review Online... your sources are a little... biased. Rasmussen also has been demonstrated to be biased against democratic tendencies, Nate Silver has some numbers on this.

Yes, support for the healthcare bill has fallen off but its interpretation thats the key. People want healthcare reform, just not the one that ultimately made through the morass created by attempting to involve the republicans and 'blue dogs'. I think the falling support is also caused by dislike of and confusion over the watered down version that made it through, and then there's the steadfast resistance by the same morons who shout "keep gov hands off my medicare" at the top of their lungs, all led by grassroots campaigns funded by corporate heathcare industry interests.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/09/health-care_reform_polling_poo.html

Resistance also probably from the same people who say they simultaneously want to cut taxes, reduce the deficit and increase spending to create jobs. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/polls/#val=USH00p3 Good luck with that, speaking of confusion and reality free zones.

shrekgrinch says

So, I gotta ask: What Reality Free Zone do you live on? I am serious.

I suppose the same one that gives us grassroots people power candidates funded by multinational corporations & billionaires... who talk about simultaneously cutting taxes and reducing the deficit... the one where its completely ignored that republicans - reagan, bush, shrub, ford, nixon - while blathering on about 'smaller gov' have continuously increased the size of gov and it was clinton who actually began to reduce the size of gov... the one where republicans who always blather on about 'fiscal prudence' have never since eisenhower (?) actually turned in a balanced budget... Its an odd world we live in isn't it?

I'd be happier with all these debates if you guys would just come right out and admit that you have no interest in balancing budgets, fiscal prudence, or in finding real security for all, you're just out for yourselves and are willing to royally screw over your neighbors in the process of making or saving a few bucks. At the very least it would allow for a more honest argument.

What do you have against making healthcare more accessible and affordable, anyway?

HousingWatcher says

“Make no mistake about it; this election was a huge victory for the Tea Party movement…”

Actually there's a good argument to be made that the 'tea party' cost the republicans gains in areas and probably even control of the senate, look at Nevada for example. So it seems that the tea party has actually helped the democrats. It wasn’t a Republican “victory” - it was a throw-the-bums-out election. If it had really been an election signaling a true ideological shift—like the ‘94 midterm - then the Tea Party candidates would have swept all their elections.

The entertainment value will be high over the next couple of years, though in a really bittersweet kind of way, and I have to admit that I'm actually bit disappointed O'Donnell didn't make it in.

I would be more willing to listen to the Tea Party types if I had seen them out in the level they are now when Bush was in the white house screwing things up, bigger government, etc.

WHERE WERE THEY? WHERE WAS THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON?!? GLENN BECK WHERE WERE YOU!

If you were always against bigger government, it shouldn't take a man with Hussein as his middle name to put a fire under your butt to get off the lazyboy and stand up "fer yer rights!" when the previous administration was screwing things up?

I got as much respect for that action as I do for the farmer who bashes perceived welfare queens while he is in line for his farmer welfare check or those bashing obamacare but are on Medicare ...

So, you guys got the ball now, lets see you run with it. No more of this No ideas crap and party of no. Lets see you run with it!

shrekgrinch says

If you want to trash Ray for saying ‘every’, I’ll back you. Bad word usage on his part that weakens his case if you literally interpret his statement. But everything after the word ‘every’, you can’t deny.

I hereby wish to strike the word "every" from my statement. I got a little carried away. Understandably, I was feeling kind of "tingly" and euphoric over the election results and simply got carried away. My sincere apologies to Kentm for adding to his already confused state of mind.

How does Palin - Rubio sound?

Another message of this election; Americans voted for "maturity."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703805704575594772776292394.html

Obviously, Nancy Pelosi doesn't get the "message." She's now announcing she wants Minority Leadership in the House! She's the gift that just keeps on giving for the GOP.

RayAmerica says

How does Palin - Rubio sound?

Explain to us please, briefly but SPECIFICALLY, how would they achieve "fiscally sound (what a revolutionary idea)". I can't take Palin seriously, but cared to
read the full Rubio platform on issues on his campaign site (though I live in WA). He specifies massive tax cuts but NEVER talks about spending cuts in any detail
beyond vague mentions of selected "common-sense" reductions to discretionary spending only. Even with NO tax cuts, reducing just some discretionary spending would decrease the deficit by a few % only, nothing to talk about.
Once "conservatives" field a candidate who specifies FIRM, IMMEDIATE, DRAMATIC cuts to ALL 3 "sacred cows" of SS, Medic- are/aid, and defense (which is needed to
close the deficit even WITHOUT tax cuts), let's discuss. Sure, people can still elect "conservatives" anyway. But you can't legislate math.