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Islam and Violence


 invite response                
2007 Sep 11, 1:35am   583,905 views  2,730 comments

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Originally from http://www.faithfreedom.org/

A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins

Dear friends,

The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the stigma of Islamic Terrorism from our identity!

What most Muslims will say:

Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.

What knowledgeable Muslims should say:

That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.

What the Qur'an Teaches Us:

We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them (8:65). Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to fight the unbelievers and He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them (9:14).

The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter (5:34). And tells us that for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods (22:19-22) and that they not only will have disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire) (22:9). The Qur'an says that those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy (25:68). For those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be harsh with unbelievers, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a stern command: Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin. (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that it is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to strike off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (47:4). Our God has promised to instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself (8:17). He orders us to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed (9:73).

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises boys like hidden pearls (56:24) and youth never altering in age like scattered pearls (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni (56:67-71).In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to take a green branch and beat your wife, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.

Dear fellow Muslims:Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over this simple issue? When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said To you be your religion, and to me my religion (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in this well-known verse Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah. (The Earth belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the earth.).Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children 'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation The Life of Muhammad) page 675, 676).The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing free people to slaves and then trading them. With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of power.

Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong? Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great disaster from happening?Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God. And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. In its so-called pure form it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an. Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this respect.Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English wrote: Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. 269.]Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said: Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. [ibid p. 270]Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn 'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that the verse Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (9:5) cancelled those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the religion of peace? We propose a solution.

We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.

Arabic translation الترجمة العربية

See http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for more.

Please copy this article, and distribute it as widely as possible, both online and physically. The future of humanity depends on it.

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2692   socal2   2024 Jul 8, 2:19pm  

Reality says

Patrick says



I've read that petroleum was used for lamps in that area from ancient times. Everyone knew it was there, just not exactly how much.


Good point! What was discovered in Iran in 1908 (6 years before the start of WW1) was oil well capable of producing oil on an industrial scale. That led to the German proposal of Berlin-Baghdad rail-road (with possibility of further extension to oil wells); that was alarming to the British RN, which was debating switching battleships from coal to oil for fast refueling.


But none of the primitive Muslims had the brains or the ability to locate or extract the oil on their own. It wasn't until the West (namely Aramco) set up the infrastructure and knowhow to pump oil that made the Saudis unbelievably rich virtually overnight.

https://www.aramco.com/en/about-us/our-history

Virtually every rich and successful society on the planet took centuries of human evolution to achieve its wealth. Oil rich Muslim countries became billionaires almost instantly and now its like we have given a chimp a machine gun.
2693   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 8, 4:44pm  

John Steinbeck's ancestor was at the Mount Hope colony in Israel around 1858. His wife was raped and killed.

They too were attacked by Arab tenant farmers/sharecroppers who did NOT own the land, after overpaying for the land from absentee Damascus landlords. Sound familiar?
2694   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 8, 4:45pm  

I'm also learning about the Tegart line, a series of forts and fences built between Lebanon-Syria and Israel, by the British.

Why? The French wanted Greater Syria, so were allowing/paying Arabs from Lebanon and Syria to attack into British Palestine.

It was built before Israel, before WW2, even before the Great Depression.
2695   Patrick   2024 Jul 8, 4:46pm  

AmericanKulak says

John Steinbeck's ancestor was at the Mount Hope colony in Israel around 1858. His wife was raped and killed.


Steinbeck was not Jewish though, afaik. What were his ancestors doing there?
2696   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 8, 5:18pm  

Patrick says


Steinbeck was not Jewish though, afaik. What were his ancestors doing there?

There were Prussian/New Englanders of a Calvinist Sect looking to settle the Holy Land. Reformed Pro-Zionism is ancient.

There was also a Lutheran German colony in Haifa as well starting in the 19th.
2697   Reality   2024 Jul 9, 6:32am  

socal2 says


But none of the primitive Muslims had the brains or the ability to locate or extract the oil on their own. It wasn't until the West (namely Aramco) set up the infrastructure and knowhow to pump oil that made the Saudis unbelievably rich virtually overnight.

https://www.aramco.com/en/about-us/our-history

Virtually every rich and successful society on the planet took centuries of human evolution to achieve its wealth. Oil rich Muslim countries became billionaires almost instantly and now its like we have given a chimp a machine gun.


When the first successful oil well found oil (on an industrial output scale) in Saudi Arabia in 1938, they had to reach a depth of 1440 meters (4724 feet), which made it one of the deepest oil wells of the time, if not the deepest in the world up to that point. Obviously, not every country could domestically possess the cutting edge technology for oil drilling, as there is only 1 deepest producing well in the world at any time, and Saudi Arabia had no oil production history before that. BTW, if the Italians and Germans could drill to 2700 meters, the depth of Lybian oil well at first discovery in the 1970's, there wouldn't be World War 2 ("world running out of oil" was a major fear back then so Germans were convinced they had to seize some) or the Axis would have won WWII. So why did the world's leading experts and industrial capital in oil drilling deploy their expertise in Saudi Arabia in 1938? Because Saudi Arabia delivered one of the best investment environment, unlike earlier attempts to drill in Oman and Yemen failed due to local political instability. Regardless what you think of the later generations of Saudi rulers, the founding Ibn al-Saud was no fool. You can call him cunning and ruthless, but he was definitely not stupid.

BTW, it's literally anti-Semitic to call Arabs "primitive," "no brains" and "chimp." Furthermore, there is a theory that Ibn al-Saud was derived from a Jewish ancestry. Seeing that almost every other country that got rich on mineral resources experienced coup/revolution every few decades to have the local dictatorship (their deposit and investment accounts at globalist banks) harvested, but the House of Saud has been ruling since the 1920's . . . it does make one wonder if they are indeed Jewish (doesn't make one immune to being harvested but tend to be put further back on the harvest target list, like every century instead of every 20-30 years but more thorough-going: decimating (killing 10% of) a population every 20-30 years might improve average IQ by 3-5 points but mass-murdering half to 90% of the population every century can result in 15 average IQ points "advantage") or working for the globalist bankers in other ways such as acting as a front-man for funding and training terrorists to generate chaos and mayhem in order to harvest other mineral rich dictators (and their middle-class and upper middle class also having account balances at globalist banks). "Mineral rich" here is an expanded term: e.g. South Vietnamese government had a gold mine in fighting communists and getting foreign aid money stolen from American taxpayers, Afghan government had a gold mine in fighting Islamic fundamentalists and getting foreign aid money stolen from American taxpayers.

The real question is: would the Saudis being Jewish change your opinion about them being "primitive," "no brains" and "chimp"? BTW, the name Saudi Arabia is a little like calling the UK "Battenberg Isles." "Saudi" denotes the House of Saud, not the Arabs living in that country, which is the only country in the world literally named as the possession of a royal house.

Also, is there any "rich and successful society" under globalist banking hegemony? Germans (and especially German Jews) were very hard-working, meticulous and highly intelligent, and they were harvested twice in less than half a century nearly 100 years ago, and now being harvested again and possibly replaced. Japanese were also very hard-working, meticulous and highly intelligent, and they were harvested 80 years ago, and harvested again in the last 30+ years, now waiting to be replaced. Even looking at NYC, London, and Tel Aviv today, do they look "rich and successful" to you? Some say being wealthy makes the population degenerate . . . however, is that really the free choice of the population or the result of massive brainwashing designed to harvest them and their forefathers' hard work fruits-of-labor? We all know what happened to Cape Town, Jonhanesburg and Salisbury/Harare. All those smart and hard-working population went through being farmed and harvested.
2698   socal2   2024 Jul 9, 8:17am  

Reality says

BTW, it's literally anti-Semitic to call Arabs "primitive," "no brains" and "chimp."


I am calling "Muslims" primitive, no brains and chimps. I know several Christian, Jewish and Baha'i Arabs in SoCal that fled Muslim persecution in the Middle East.

Islam is the ultimate mind virus that ruins civilizations and anyone unfortunate enough to live next door. The religion is incompatible with any sort of free and tolerant society.

We need to stop making fanciful conspiracy theories to somehow blame the West to explain away the massive problems of Islam.
2699   Reality   2024 Jul 9, 9:12am  

socal2 says


I am calling "Muslims" primitive, no brains and chimps. I know several Christian, Jewish and Baha'i Arabs in SoCal that fled Muslim persecution in the Middle East.


Did they flee the Middle East before 1938 oil discovery in Saudi Arabia? or 1908 (industrial) oil drilling in Iran? Because you cited those countries not having the world's most advanced drilling operations domestically as evidence for their being "primitive" "no brains" and "chimps." Do you have a set of drills in your basement that you can drive down into the ground by 1440 meters (over 4500 feet) ? If you don't, wouldn't your logic deem yourself "primitive" "no brains and "chimp"?


Islam is the ultimate mind virus that ruins civilizations and anyone unfortunate enough to live next door. The religion is incompatible with any sort of free and tolerant society.

We need to stop making fanciful conspiracy theories to somehow blame the West to explain away the massive problems of Islam.


Islam is a branch of Judaism, just like Christianity is a branch of Judaism, only more so, as both Talmudism (what most post-5th century sects marketing under the brand "Judaism" are) and Islam were Jewish reactions to the popularity of Christianity in Eastern Roman Empire. Both Christianity and Islam became more popular than Judaism (the sects that continued to market under that brand, not the more broad view of Judaism that includes both Christianity and Islam) precisely because of being more tolerant: Christianity was more tolerant (and imposed less money-changer rip-off's) than the 1st Century AD/CE dominant sects in Judaism (Pharaseeism and Sadduceeism), and Islam was more tolerant and imposed less taxes than the way Eastern Roman Empire ran Christianity after the 5th century.

The post-1960's Islamic fundamentalism is just like post-1870's Zionism/Jewish fundamentalism and post-1848 Communism: a revolutionary ideology promoted by the globalist bankers to create chaos and hate in pursuit of mass killing account holders. 100 years ago, extremely low percentage of European Jews were Zionists or wanted to relocate to the Middle East (or believed in terrorist attacks against both the British and the Arabs in order to build a "Zion" in the Middle East, something that Irgun Gang and etc. did and eventually became the IDF). A very large percentage of the average European Jews were later slaughtered by the globalist bankster engineered war and massacre in order to void their bank accounts and insurance accounts, and force the rest of them to move to the Middle East to start another human-farming cycle (as human cattle).
2700   socal2   2024 Jul 9, 9:31am  

Reality says

Did they flee the Middle East before 1938 oil discovery in Saudi Arabia? or 1908 (industrial) oil drilling in Iran?


They mostly fled in the late 1970's and early 80's when the Ayatollahs took over Iran and Saudis were spreading extremist Wahhabism around the Sunni Muslim world.

The point you seem to be missing is that the "Muslim World" did not get super rich until the 1970's when their oil production (and price) massively increased thanks to West's expanding economies needing energy. This massive increase in oil revenue just so happens to be about the same time that modern day Islamic terrorism started around the world with airplane hijackings and Olympic attacks and radical fundamentalist Islam (both Sunni and Shia) in places like Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Gulf States forcing women back into burqas and generally dumbing down their civilizations with Islam.


https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-history-of-oil-production-from-the-worlds-giant-oil-fields-The-rapid-e-xpansion-of_fig2_225365392
2701   Reality   2024 Jul 9, 10:02am  

socal2 says


They mostly fled in the late 1970's and early 80's when the Ayatollahs took over Iran and Saudis were spreading extremist Wahhabism around the Sunni Muslim world.

The point you seem to be missing is that the "Muslim World" did not get super rich until the 1970's when their oil production (and price) massively increased thanks to West's expanding economies needing energy. This massive increase in oil revenue just so happens to be about the same time that modern day Islamic terrorism started around the world with airplane hijackings and Olympic attacks and radical fundamentalist Islam (both Sunni and Shia) in places like Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Gulf States forcing women back into burqas and generally dumbing down their civilizations with Islam.



LOL! Your graph directly contradicts your statement. In the graph, oil production peaked in the 1970's, then saw a massive decline from late 1970s to mid-1980's. The rapid production growth ended in the 1970's. Have you thought of the possibility that as oil production/demand growth slowed down as a result of the closing of the gold window in 1973 and the world economic growth slowed down dramatically, all the "terrorism" etc. were excuses to raise oil revenue (by raising price) despite declining shipping volume, so that more of the oil importing nations' money could be shuffled through the oil exporter countries to the globalist banks? That is, a matter of raising taxes on the entire world population by raising energy cost despite not producing more oil.

In case it's not obvious, almost all the big wars in oil-producing countries since the early 1980's have not been about bringing new oil production capacity online but taking existing oil production off-line or banned from selling on the market. The purpose is keeping oil price high as a form of tax on the population.

BTW, Iran was a much wealthier place under the Shah before his overthrow in 1979 than it has been under the Ayatollahs since then. The Islamic revolution in Iran provided the excuse to limit Iranian oil export so oil price can be kept artificially high.
2702   socal2   2024 Jul 9, 10:19am  

Reality says

LOL! Your graph directly contradicts your statement. In the graph, oil production peaked in the 1970's, then saw a massive decline from late 1970s to mid-1980's.


Please.

The price of oil dramatically increased at the 1970's and has never come down to the 1960's prices ever since. OPEC production has only come down to prop up the price of oil to account for more production from the US in response to the 1970's oil embargos.

Face it. Oil producing Muslim countries got insanely rich in the late 20th century (both in oil price and volume) thanks to Western technology, labor and demand. I also know alot of people who worked for oil companies who lived years in Saudi Arabia's gated communities to manage the oil field because the Saudis were too stupid and lazy to do manual work. All this extra money was used to fund mosques and madrassas around the world to make up for hypocritical fat Saudis and Iranians living the high life - which ended up radicalizing a huge chunk of the Muslim world we have today.


2703   Reality   2024 Jul 9, 10:30am  

socal2 says


The price of oil dramatically increased at the 1970's and has never come down to the 1960's prices ever since.


Nor have most other commodities. The real reason is dollar devaluation as the dollar became detached from the $35/ounce Brettonwoods price, officially starting in 1973. Gold today trades around $2360/ounce, please don't tell me you expect it to go back to the $35/ounce 1960's price.

socal2 says


Oil producing Muslim countries got insanely rich in the late 20th century (both in oil price and volume) thanks to Western technology, labor and demand. I also know alot of people who worked for oil companies who lived years in Saudi Arabia's gated communities to manage the oil field be
cause the Saudis were too stupid and lazy to do manual work. All this extra money was used to fund mosques and madrassas around the world to make up for hypocritical fat Saudis and Iranians living the high life - which ended up radicalizing a huge chunk of the Muslim world we have today.


The Iranians were much wealthier under the Shah before his overthrow in 1979 than they have been under the Ayatollahs since then. The game was to keep Iranian oil off world market, so the Saudi (and other Gulf emeirates) can get high prices and pass the money to globalist banks, financing all sorts Madrassas either as a way to find recruits to fight Soviets (plus Chinese and Indians) or cause trouble so another excuse to spend tax money on the military-industrial complex; eventually having the impoverished Iranians invade Saudi Arabia and other emeirates and zero out the latters' bank accounts, just like financing communist revolutions to overthrow the extremely wealthy Czar and etc. a century earlier, and financing BLM/AntiFa and etc. to destroy middle-class society in this country.
2704   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 10, 12:21am  

Drug Addict invades Detroit Trucker's Cab.



Note she has that same scream intensity modulation as the Queer EU Trans Contestant. Witchcraft!

Fortunately this guy is General Jehu.
2705   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 10, 12:24am  

socal2 says


Oil producing Muslim countries got insanely rich in the late 20th century (both in oil price and volume) thanks to Western technology, labor and demand. I also know alot of people who worked for oil companies who lived years in Saudi Arabia's gated communities to manage the oil field because the Saudis were too stupid and lazy to do manual work.

Facts.

Reality says


The game was to keep Iranian oil off world market,

Yeah no, that's definitely NOT what the US wanted to happen. It's what the USSR wanted though. They were so high off it they decided they could invade Afghanistan. The Sauds then made up the impact by cutting oil prices to the bone.
2707   Patrick   2024 Jul 10, 2:02am  

socal2 says

Islam is the ultimate mind virus that ruins civilizations and anyone unfortunate enough to live next door. The religion is incompatible with any sort of free and tolerant society.


@socal2 I strongly agree.

https://www.fluechtling.net/Islam/islamic-memeplex.html
2709   gabbar   2024 Jul 10, 5:10am  

Patrick says

Islam is the ultimate mind virus that ruins civilizations and anyone unfortunate enough to live next door. The religion is incompatible with any sort of free and tolerant society.

There is a war going on now between Islam and every free and tolerant society.
2710   Reality   2024 Jul 10, 7:22am  

AmericanKulak says


Reality says

The game was to keep Iranian oil off world market,

Yeah no, that's definitely NOT what the US wanted to happen. It's what the USSR wanted though. They were so high off it they decided they could invade Afghanistan. The Sauds then made up the impact by cutting oil prices to the bone.


There are a few big holes in the USSR-instigation theory: Khomeini was in Paris, France, not exactly controlled by the USSR but was in territory controlled by CIA's Operation Galdio in Europe; the BBC supporting the student uprising against the Shah wasn't a USSR organization but a British propaganda organization just like it was during the covid/jabs. As for Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Afghanistan had already been a soviet client state; it was the return of Khomeini to Iran in late 1978 that led to the religious riots in Herat, Afghanistan in February 1979, which in turn led to the Soviet military intervention. Herat was the western Shiite corner of Afghanistan on the border with Iran (the rest of Afghanistan was/is mostly Sunni).

What's been keeping Iranian oil off world market has been US sanctions, not any ban by the USSR, which ceased to exist in 1992.
2711   Reality   2024 Jul 10, 7:54am  

gabbar says


The Terrifying Brilliance of the Islamic Memeplex
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2007/10/terrifying-brilliance-of-islamic.html


How can anyone familiar with Judaism and born-again Christianity not recognize the Memic-Darwinian and double-standards us-vs.-them treating all non co-religious as cattle as part of the belief system but in reality the religious leaders treating followers as cattle / cannon-fodder . . . as the standard template of most Judaism-derived religions from the very beginning? when Ezra from Aryan Persia invented the religion to control the newly conquered land on the east coast of Mediterranean. It's a caste system placing those willing to convert to Ezra's new religion (qualifying as "Jews," a new term similar to the later term "Muslim" in the later religion) to have the (Zoroastrianism-derived) God-given right to slaughter the general target population, and Ezra's own small retinue of Persians at the tippy top as Levites, who had the exclusive rights to eat sacrificial meats. Have you read the Sharia Laws and compared them to Jewish laws? How are they different from form to content? Not much difference, both are Revealed Laws.

Gender equality has been tried for only a little over 100 years in the most recent / current 700-800 year cycle, and it's failing terribly, just like it did in late Roman time and late Sparta. Islam seems to be the only systematic large-scale ideology openly challenging feminism and banning the rainbow anti-birth coalition. So it shouldn't be surprising that the globalist bankers are trying to replace Western societies with Islamic societies, while pocketing any and all bank account balances that the Westerners and their forefathers have/had in the bank accounts. Historically, Islamic states in power tended to be tolerant (more tolerant than either Jewish or Christian states) due to allowing free conversion into Islam and the regime's economic dependence on tax on non-muslims: as the regimes got accustomed to living off the much higher tax from non-muslims, they all had to protect the non-muslims in order to keep that tax revenue flowing. That's why the Islamic rulers of Spain allowed Jews to flourish, whereas the re-conquesting Christian kingdoms quickly drove out the Jews; although, there I also have an alternative theory that the bankers bribed the impoverished Christian armies in the mountains to invade and overthrow the prosperous Islamic states in central and southern Spain in order to void the bank accounts of the Jews and Muslims alike, near the end of that 700-800 year cycle.

I'm not fan of Islam per se, and certainly not a Muslim, but treating Islam as something uniquely evil compared to classical Judaism and Christianity (not their watered down versions in recent years among the essentially atheistic population) is just silly and would only make Muslims all the more fanatic (it's the same for most Judaism-derived religions: persecution makes the religion grow).

The only solution for preventing Islam take-over, as far I can see, is for non-Muslims to have more babies, babies that can grow up into productive citizens to sustain a relatively free and logical society. Otherwise, off to the Dark Ages we go, this time with Islam as the dominant religion instead of the classical Christianity; remember, even the Dark Ages with its low taxation was preferable to most people than the high taxation high bureaucracy low birth-rate late Roman Empire.
2712   gabbar   2024 Jul 10, 10:38am  

AmericanKulak says





Muslims have celebrated minor losses of right/conservatives in many countries, not just France.
2713   Patrick   2024 Jul 10, 1:06pm  

Islam must be completely eliminated from France.

Every mosque is a foreign military base.
2714   Reality   2024 Jul 10, 1:23pm  

Then we get into the issue of who stole the election for them, and whether we have the political will to drive out every single ethnic/religious group that considers itself superior to the general population and born/chosen-by-God to rule. Considering how far Americans have drifted away from the Constitution, which was written explicitly banning all privileges, I don't know if the French have the political will.
2715   Patrick   2024 Jul 10, 1:49pm  

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/disorderly-refugees-turn-erfurt-commuter


Disorderly "refugees" turn Erfurt commuter rail line into a daily hell of physical assaults, threats & fights; police respond by offering special classes on "railway rules" and "German customs"

Apparently not stabbing and spitting on conductors is a peculiar central European cultural norm unknown to our guests from Syria, Afghanistan and Turkey.

This TikTok video is an internet classic. It was produced in 2020 by officials in the Finnish town of Oulu – among the fruits of a 2.5 million-Euro campaign to combat a sexual assault crisis caused by heedlessly bringing hordes of hostile foreigners (“refugees”) into this heretofore pacific country. The unstated premise of our rape preventionists seems to be that migrants are disproportionately rapey because nobody told them they’re not supposed to molest people in their, uh, “no-no squares” (typing this is causing me almost physical pain). As soon as our brave New Finns hear that groping and assaulting women violates our highly peculiar and unique Western norms, they’ll surely stop! It’s all been one massive misunderstanding! Nothing a public awareness campaign can’t fix!

The Finns are not alone in their towering naiveté; theirs is an attitude general to the mass-migrationist state. For a more recent example, we turn to Thüringen, where “refugees” have turned a commuter rail line into daily hell:

“I have an average of three employees a week in my Erfurt office for legal advice. They were attacked, spat at, insulted, threatened or pushed,” says Steffi Recknagel in an interview with FOCUS online. The 55-year-old heads the office of the railway and transport union in Thüringen.

“The worst case was when a train attendant was threatened with a knife,” reports Recknagel. Another was attacked from behind – “her airway was cut off.” In other incidents, female employees were “slapped,” “kicked,” “pulled by the jacket" and harassed “extremely aggressively” …

The problems are especially acute on a route between the state capital in Erfurt and a mid-sized town 50km to the south called Suhl. The reason is that Suhl is home to Thüringen’s initial refugee reception facility...

At any given time, hundreds of migrants from Syria, Afghanistan and Turkey are housed in these flats, and they’re constantly taking the train to and from Erfurt, and terrorising everybody else who is doing the same thing.

“I travel the Erfurt-Suhl route myself every day” … Recknagel explains … “and unfortunately I have to admit that it’s mostly young men from the initial reception centre who behave completely inappropriately on our trains. They’re always travelling in groups and feel strong together.”

Anyone who points out German rules and laws to immigrants or tries to help someone in distress must expect push-back … “When this kind of thing happens during the trip, increasingly people are saying to themselves: I’d better look the other way before I’m the next victim.”

Even railway staff prefer to avoid conflicts. “It’s can be life-threatening. Our people are scared, very scared,” … Recknagel said. “We have employees who say: If these groups are on the train, I won’t check tickets. I’ll stay in front with the train driver or lock myself in my cabin until I arrive at a safe station and they’ve disembarked.”

The malefactors are too numerous for train security, and when migrant criminals are caught and handed over to the police, nothing happens, they’re promptly released and return to continue their railway terror campaign the next week. The incidents occur “almost every day,” and are often sparked when the migrants are caught riding without a valid ticket. In these cases they resort to punching, kicking, spitting and hurling “sexist insults.” Some also display their genitalia to female conductors. When they’re not resisting the ticket-checks, they often get in fights among themselves.

On 15 March, the South Thüringen Railway sent a four-page letter Bodo Ramelow, the Minister President of Thüringen, detailing the terrible conditions on the Suhl-Erfurt line.

In the [lettter] … the authors complain that politicians at the federal and state levels are constantly talking about “integration” and “tolerance towards migrants.”

They counter: “How can you expect citizens of this country to be open to the refugee policy being practised when practically every day, and not just on public transport, they have to witness such violence, brutalisation and absolute contempt for our laws and society?” The say that most perpetrators have no respect for the German state and the German police. How, then, could they then have any respect for the service staff of the South-Thüringen Railway and their security forces? The idea, they say, is “an absolute joke.”

In April, federal police, officials from the Thuringian Ministry of Transport and the railway met to discuss the problems and put together a “security plan.” As the excellent Apollo News points out, that plan has finally been put into motion, and we can all breathe a sigh of relief. The federal police will visit the refugee facility in Suhl and … provide classes to our refugees on how to behave properly when riding German trains.

… [T]he federal police will hold information events to train the residents of the refugee centre about the German customs that pertain rail travel … [F]or example, the refugees are to be made aware that a ticket is necessary for travelling by train and that these will also be checked by railway employees.

In addition, they will explain the railway rules and the possible consequences of fare evasion to asylum seekers. Due to the language barriers, an interpreter will support the federal police officers at the event. The first events are said to have already taken place on 6 June and 4 July, with the next one planned for the beginning of August.

Those migrants exposing themselves to female conductors, pulling out knives, spitting on railway staff, fighting with each other, assaulting fellow passengers – all one massive misunderstanding! Just like the rapes in Finland! Nobody ever told them the rules! All they need is a few classes, just a few pointers, and soon they’ll be scolding teenagers for playing loud music and offering their seats to old ladies just like proper Germans.
2716   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 10, 2:10pm  

Reality says


Khomeini was in Paris, France,

The USSR profited by it. Also, the French really get raw when the Brits have something they think is theirs. I posted earlier about the Tagart Line, which was created by the British Mandate of Palestine to keep French-backed Arab raiders out. The French wanted to create a Greater Syria as a Department of France, and the Brits and Zionists were in the way.

Reality says


Historically, Islamic states in power tended to be tolerant (more tolerant than either Jewish or Christian states) due to allowing free conversion into Islam

This is from leftist woke revisionism. Many Islamic states prevented people from converting - they added a lot more than saying the Shahada like Sinaed, because they didn't want slaves converting to Islam and losing their slave status in East Africa, or Dhimmis converting and losing their Jizzya infidel tax in North Africa/Egypt.

There is no evidence that Grenada/Moorish Spain was any more tolerant than any other State at the time.

The Yellow Star was invented in Egypt around 1000 to 'compensate' for the fact Central Asians were invading the Middle East and as a sop to Allah to be tougher on the disbelievers and non-Muslims. Also added was a WHITE CROSS for Christians.

As for development, the real outpouring of Science in the Middle East wasn't from Islam, it was because the Yoke of Byzantine high taxes were removed and the plunder of Egypt - ruled from the fortress of Fustat, now Cairo - allowed the Muslims to have very low taxes. ALL of "Arabic Science" was based on Galen, Ptolemy, and other Greek Ancients. The Math - "The Restoration" - corrupted into European languages as "Al-gebra" as well as "Arabic Numbers" came via contact between Islam and Hindu States; they were both HINDU, not Muslim, inventions.
Reality says


I'm not fan of Islam per se, and certainly not a Muslim, but treating Islam as something uniquely evil compared to classical Judaism and Christianity (not their watered down versions in recent years among the essentially atheistic population) is just silly and would only make Muslims all the more fanatic (it's the same for most Judaism-derived religions: persecution makes the religion grow).

Neither Christianity nor Judiasm requires expansive war. Islam almost entirely spread through expansive war, which the Quran calls for.

It's ironic to see, for example, Palestinians celebrate Yarmouk, which was the Battle that allowed them to Imperialist-Colonize Israel, Syria, and later Egypt. While crying about the Reconquista, which rolled back their Jihad into Western Europe.

While Judaism is vicious against Amalekites - which contrary to purposefully obtuse, tendentious translations isn't "Goyim", but foreigners taking over areas demarcated by the Bible as Israel (ie NOT Europe, Anatolia, etc) - the Bible also sets the borders of Israel basically what they are today and warns the protective Hand of God will be removed if those borders are exceeded by Jews.

Now we have retarded ideas like Israel isn't hard pressed enough, it would like Islam to take over Europe so they can shut both the Suez and Straits of Gibraltar, be surrounded on all sides and the Med as well as the Red. This makes sense to people with the humbug theory because the humbug blinds them to the fact that this would be suicidal even IF dajoos were Evil.

When cultures are on the decline and institutions lie and fail (both together), it's common for some to try to throw out Everything, not just the bad stuff - the baby with the dirty bathwater. This is why such times are so dangerous. Civilizations end up killing themselves by throwing out the good with the bed, then left even more defenceless and weaker and demoralized.
2717   Reality   2024 Jul 10, 6:13pm  

AmericanKulak says

Reality says


Khomeini was in Paris, France,

The USSR profited by it. Also, the French really get raw when the Brits have something they think is theirs. I posted earlier about the Tagart Line, which was created by the British Mandate of Palestine to keep French-backed Arab raiders out. The French wanted to create a Greater Syria as a Department of France, and the Brits and Zionists were in the way.


How did USSR profit from the support Khomeini received from the West? The survival and return of Khomeini directly led to the religious uprising in Herat, which was what led to the soviet military intervention in Afghanistan (i.e. their "Vietnam"). The French had no interest in Iran, so as the weakest of the three post-WWII primary Western Powers, the French were trading their role as an agent/facilitator for British and American interest in Iran in order to gain concessions in regions where the French did have national pride interest, such as Algeria, Levant (Syria+Lebanon) and Indochina (Vietnam+Cambodia+Laos).
2718   Reality   2024 Jul 10, 7:05pm  

AmericanKulak says


There is no evidence that Grenada/Moorish Spain was any more tolerant than any other State at the time.


It was a lot more tolerant than the Northern Crusade state that the Teutonic Knights and their associates were running at the same time period in today's Baltic states. The Teutonic Knights (authorized by the Catholic Church, and sent north to today's Poland and Baltic region to "convert" pagans when the Crusade to the Middle East was failing) literally exterminated the Old Prussians, and kept looting and slaughtering other local population that had already converted to Christianity while pretending the latter were still pagans. The Grenada/Moorish Spain was also more tolerant than the reconquestadors that replaced them and brought the Star Chamber to torture and rob Jews and former Jews who had converted to Christianity after the reconquestadors came. There seems to be a pattern of (Christian) religious conquest here.


Neither Christianity nor Judiasm requires expansive war. Islam almost entirely spread through expansive war, which the Quran calls for.,



Quran calls for "Jihad," which doesn't necessarily mean war but "struggle," which includes debate and other forms of proselytizing; Christianity calls for winning the world for Christ / saving the world in the name of Christ. As for Judaism, "we" are the "chosen" and practically already rule the world. Just look at Argentina and Mexico, and at least half of the Biden Administration.


It's ironic to see, for example, Palestinians celebrate Yarmouk, which was the Battle that allowed them to Imperialist-Colonize Israel, Syria, and later Egypt. While crying about the Reconquista, which rolled back their Jihad into Western Europe.


The Battle of Yamouk was fought in an area (southern Levant and northern Palestine) that had recently changed hand multiple times between East Roman Empire and the Sassanids. "Imperialist-Colonize" would be quite anachronistic, as is the term "Israel" in this context. If anything, the Muslim "conquest" of Syria not only did not lead to Mohammed's Hashemite rule of Syria but in contrary led to the fall from power of the original sand tribe represented by Mohammed's son-in-law Ali, and the rise of the Syrians in the Umayyad Caliphate.


While Judaism is vicious against Amalekites - which contrary to purposefully obtuse, tendentious translations isn't "Goyim", but foreigners taking over areas demarcated by the Bible as Israel (ie NOT Europe, Anatolia, etc) - the Bible also sets the borders of Israel basically what they are today and warns the protective Hand of God will be removed if those borders are exceeded by Jews.


You may want to tell that to the folks drawing Nile to Euphrates as "the Promised Land." Look, when a political system promotes hereditory privileges, the territorial appetite is always unlimited: because systems of hereditory privileges are inefficient thanks to genetic return-to-mean, so more and more territories have to be seized to feed the incompetent offspring, eventually leading to the implosion of such a privilege / caste system. Statistically speaking, the people setting up such systems for themselves also simultaneously set up their own offspring to be slaughtered/exterminated.

AmericanKulak says


Now we have retarded ideas like Israel isn't hard pressed enough, it would like Islam to take over Europe so they can shut both the Suez and Straits of Gibraltar, be surrounded on all sides and the Med as well as the Red. This makes sense to people with the humbug theory because the humbug blinds them to the fact that this would be suicidal even IF dajoos were Evil.


LOL! In your world, the entire EU's 400+million people are less important than the 5 million Jews living in Israel. Notice, I didn't count the other 5 million people living in today's Greater Israel (Israel proper plus the occupied territories), as you may well consider them less than cattle, perhaps negative-cattle / negative-human to be expunged in order to arrive at zero value.


When cultures are on the decline and institutions lie and fail (both together), it's common for some to try to throw out Everything, not just the bad stuff - the baby with the dirty bathwater. This is why such times are so dangerous. Civilizations end up killing themselves by throwing out the good with the bed, then left even more defenceless and weaker and demoralized.


Nah, it's more like incompetents being goaded onto fool's errands and not realizing it. You may want to look up what Einstein said when he saw what was happening in Israel.
2719   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 10, 11:00pm  

Reality says


It was a lot more tolerant than the Northern Crusade state that the Teutonic Knights and their associates were running at the same time period in today's Baltic states. The Teutonic Knights (authorized by the Catholic Church, and sent north to today's Poland and Baltic region to "convert" pagans when the Crusade to the Middle East was failing) literally exterminated the Old Prussians, and kept looting and slaughtering other local population that had already converted to Christianity while pretending the latter were still pagans. The Grenada/Moorish Spain was also more tolerant than the reconquestadors that replaced them and brought the Star Chamber to torture and rob Jews and former Jews who had converted to Christianity after the reconquestadors came. There seems to be a pattern of (Christian) religious conquest here.

Yes, The Northern Crusades are a thing, but some of this is Neo-Pagan nonsense, the Teutonic Order did convert the Latts, Letts, and shit I forgot (Lattigans? Lettigans?) oh yeah Latvians over time and fairly peacefully other than a few big slaughters of resistant strongholds which was typically par-for-the-course warfare. Just like Genghis Khan or any Emir slaughtered the first city they came to regardless of their level of resistance whenever they moved into a new area, and deliberately allowed a few people to escape and spread the fear.

The Spanish thing against the Conversos was actually forbidden by the Pope, on the grounds that new Catholics are given leeway in things like pork. However, as the reconquista ended and a lot of knights blew their plunder on women and wine, or arrived/born too late, they wanted to go after conversos via the Spanish Inquisition that flagrantly disobeyed the Vatican's instructions. The Spanish could do this as the Pope was dependent on their aid against the French and other Italian States.

Reality says


Nah, it's more like incompetents being goaded onto fool's errands and not realizing it. You may want to look up what Einstein said when he saw what was happening in Israel.

That it's survived for almost a century and has nuclear weapons, Which sticks in the craw of many. Einstein being far from a political genius, and only grudging Deist late in life due to the overwhelming evidence of fine tuning and a Creator, much like Hoyle. The latter coining "Big Bang" as an insult, since it was the Scientific Materialists who clung to "Steady State" as long as possible. As an origin point of the universe was much harder for their materialistic philosophy than "It just always was".Reality says


LOL! In your world, the entire EU's 400+million people are less important than the 5 million Jews living in Israel. Notice, I didn't count the other 5 million people living in today's Greater Israel (Israel proper plus the occupied territories), as you may well consider them less than cattle, perhaps negative-cattle / negative-human to be expunged in order to arrive at zero value.

I think you need to reread what I wrote, the sarcasm is pretty obvious. That you couldn't detect it is more of a sign the Humbug is strong with you.

Reality says


You may want to tell that to the folks drawing Nile to Euphrates as "the Promised Land." Look, when a political system promotes hereditory privileges, the territorial appetite is always unlimited: because systems of hereditory privileges are inefficient thanks to genetic return-to-mean, so more and more territories have to be seized to feed the incompetent offspring, eventually leading to the implosion of such a privilege / caste system. Statistically speaking, the people setting up such systems for themselves also simultaneously set up their own offspring to be slaughtered/exterminated.

From Dan to Be’er Sheva is given 9 times in the Bible:

Genesis 17:8, Judges 20:1, I Samuel 3:20, II Samuel 3:10, II Samuel 17:11, II Samuel 24:2, II Samuel 24:15, I Kings 5:5, I Chronicles 21:2, II Chronicles 30:5

The zone extending to the Euphrates is given once, the maximum extent of the areas that paid tribute or acknowledged the authority to the United Kingdom of Israel. Like the Byzantine Empire, which is sometimes shown to extend deep into what is Yugoslavia today, in reality most of that area was influence and tribute in return for aid or trade, not direct rule.

The fact that Israel returned the Entire Sinai within a few years of conquering it to Egypt in return for a peace treaty is pretty much a refutation of "Israel never gives up anything", along with the total withdrawal from Gaza almost 15 years ago, which was rewarded with a backstabbing, ceasefire violation-without-cause massacre on Oct 7th last year, and the war crime of taking civilian captives.
2720   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 10, 11:04pm  

Reality says


Quran calls for "Jihad," which doesn't necessarily mean war but "struggle," which includes debate and other forms of proselytizing; Christianity calls for winning the world for Christ / saving the world in the name of Christ. As for Judaism, "we" are the "chosen" and practically already rule the world. Just look at Argentina and Mexico, and at least half of the Biden Administration.

Ancient Islamicist Propaganda.

When the Arabs invaded Syria, Egypt, Anatolia, etc. they called it a Jihad. Sure, there are poetic uses, but the main meaning of Jihad is the same as Crusade. However, Crusade is not an Instruction in the NT, Jihad IS an instruction - and contextually refers to non-believers and their territory, not some mental struggle of the Submissive.

"Oh, I'm just on a mental Crusade" says almost nobody.

Except in the case of Crusade, Byzantium was really just trying to enlist Western Knights to join in a Reconquista of lands belonging to them just a few centuries ago, and mostly because those Tolerant Arabs were shaking down and slaughtering Pilgrims on-and-off depending on the Emir of Syria's attitude on a given day.
2721   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 10, 11:07pm  

Reality says


The Battle of Yamouk was fought in an area (southern Levant and northern Palestine) that had recently changed hand multiple times between East Roman Empire and the Sassanids. "Imperialist-Colonize" would be quite anachronistic, as is the term "Israel" in this context. If anything, the Muslim "conquest" of Syria not only did not lead to Mohammed's Hashemite rule of Syria but in contrary led to the fall from power of the original sand tribe represented by Mohammed's son-in-law Ali, and the rise of the Syrians in the Umayyad Caliphate.

Nevertheless, it is celebrated as an Islamic Triumph against unbelievers and an expansion of the House of Peace into Israel - a CONQUEST.

Nobody believes Islam spread from Mecca and Medina to Egypt, Damascus, Antioch, Libya, Morocco, and Spain (and of course Baghdad and modern day Iran) via handing out Al-Tracts.
2723   AmericanKulak   2024 Jul 11, 1:46pm  

Islam is a lot like Woke Progressivism.

They don't just want to live on a Commune and take experimental Clot Shots, that's not enough.

They can't be happy until YOU do it.

In fact, like Islam the Left isn't even that interested in living their principles, it's more interested in making YOU live them.

It's more and more obvious, and I know I beat this to death, that alot of "Indy Pedantic Journalism Readers" aren't free-thinkers, they simply just repeat the propaganda of other countries and ideals, lapped up wholesale. It's not "Oh, this one point is true, and this other is a half-truth with a big ommission, but these other things are bullshit."

Most Indy Pedantic Journalist readers swallow all of it without discernment.
2725   Reality   2024 Jul 11, 7:01pm  

AmericanKulak says


Islam is a lot like Woke Progressivism.

They don't just want to live on a Commune and take experimental Clot Shots, that's not enough.


What do you think Kibbutz were/are if they were/are not communes? Israel had one of the strictest Clot Shot enforcement, against its own Jewish citizens! Like I have been saying, most of what you hate about Islam are actually elements of Judaism (as promoted by the globalist bankers).
2726   Reality   2024 Jul 11, 7:07pm  

gabbar says







I actually agree with most of what's in that document. That's why I have been saying, what's promoted by the globalist bankers as Islamic Fudamentalism / Islamic Revivalism in the post 1960's world is quite different from what Islam had been previously . . . just like bankster promoted Zionism in the post-1870's era is quite different from what most Jews practiced as Judaism in their families. Very low percentage of European Jews in 1870 (or in 1930) believed in Zionism. Likewise, most Muslims from proper traditional Muslim families don't believe in Fundamentalism either. Equating Islam with post-1960's Islamic Fudamentalism (as promoted by globalist banking interest and their "Deep State" operatives) would alienate the fastest growing population in the world.
2727   Reality   2024 Jul 11, 7:15pm  

AmericanKulak says

Nobody believes Islam spread from Mecca and Medina to Egypt, Damascus, Antioch, Libya, Morocco, and Spain (and of course Baghdad and modern day Iran) via handing out Al-Tracts.


Islam did not spread from Mecca to Medina, but from Medina to Mecca and accepted Mecca's status as pilgrimage destination (and direction of worship) via negotiations. The rapid speed of Islamic "conquest" was largely the result of the commercial interest behind funding that branch of Judaism having already done the negotiations and made peace with the local rulers and population, in some ways similar to Lawrence of Arabia more than a thousand years later. Much of Islamic laws were thinly veiled commercial codes.
2728   Reality   2024 Jul 11, 7:30pm  

AmericanKulak says


When the Arabs invaded Syria, Egypt, Anatolia, etc. they called it a Jihad. Sure, there are poetic uses, but the main meaning of Jihad is the same as Crusade. However, Crusade is not an Instruction in the NT, Jihad IS an instruction - and contextually refers to non-believers and their territory, not some mental struggle of the Submissive.

"Oh, I'm just on a mental Crusade" says almost nobody.

Except in the case of Crusade, Byzantium was really just trying to enlist Western Knights to join in a Reconquista of lands belonging to them just a few centuries ago, and mostly because those Tolerant Arabs were shaking down and slaughtering Pilgrims on-and-off depending on the Emir of Syria's attitude on a given day.


First, we need to understand what religious pilgrimage is: it's always about the exploiting and shaking down of the gullible. The Pilgrimage to Mecca was big business, and that's why the local merchants were able to convince Mohammed to keep the tradition. Pilgrimage were shake-downs, robbing/murder, both in western Europe for other pilgrim destinations and for Muslims (and Pagans before Muslims) going to Mecca. Wahabbists and the various militant Knightly orders were in the business of doing those shake-downs and getting rich on it.

There are fundamental differences between Crusade (to the Middle East) vs. Jihad to spread Islam. The Crusades (to the Middle East) were about establishing a vulnerable colony attracting money deposits from Pilgrims and locals then having the bank imploding on them; 90% of Knight Templar brothers were not fighting knights but money managers all over Western and central Europe! The initial Islamic jihad to spread Islam was more similar to the Age of Discovery in Western Europe: a struggle to convert new people to the faith, except even less bloody/murderous than the Age of Discovery, as the Muslims being at the leading edge of commerce for a religion (itself being a branch of Judaism) brought low taxes that were welcomed by over-taxed and often war-torn local people (before Muslims arrived; e.g. Syria had been taken back and forth between ERE and Sassanids).
2729   Reality   2024 Jul 11, 7:59pm  

AmericanKulak says


Yes, The Northern Crusades are a thing, but some of this is Neo-Pagan nonsense, the Teutonic Order did convert the Latts, Letts, and shit I forgot (Lattigans? Lettigans?) oh yeah Latvians over time and fairly peacefully other than a few big slaughters of resistant strongholds which was typically par-for-the-course warfare. Just like Genghis Khan or any Emir slaughtered the first city they came to regardless of their level of resistance whenever they moved into a new area, and deliberately allowed a few people to escape and spread the fear.


This excusing of Genghis Khan really takes the cake: it's like saying the Nazis only exterminated Jews in a few concentration camps in order to drive the rest to the Middle East to become good Zionists! Are you not aware that Mongo invasion routinely caused 50-90% population reduction almost everywhere they reached? No, they were not primarily interested in getting more territory to farm humans; they wanted to kill people in order to snatch the victims' accumulated wealth. That's exactly what the Nazi policy towards Jews was, and what Teutonic Knights' policy towards the "aboriginals" of the operating range was . . . which was why the Teutonic Knights kept fighting and killing till they were thoroughly defeated by the joint Polish and Lithuanian army (with some help from Rus and Tartars) at the first Battle of Tannenberg in 1410. The Muslim Emirs looking for more territory to administer were nothing like the Mongos. If you want to find something historically similar to the Mongos, you may have to look at near the end of the previous 700-800yr cycle: when Attila the Hun showed up in 4xx AD as "the Scourge of God." Compared to the Mongos, the Teutonic Knights were wannabes pushing in the wrong direction.

AmericanKulak says


That it's survived for almost a century and has nuclear weapons, Which sticks in the craw of many. Einstein being far from a political genius, and only grudging Deist late in life due to the overwhelming evidence of fine tuning and a Creator, much like Hoyle. The latter coining "Big Bang" as an insult, since it was the Scientific Materialists who clung to "Steady State" as long as possible. As an origin point of the universe was much harder for their materialistic philosophy than "It just always was"


It's funny to see Zionists putting down Einstein. Einstein may not have become the best known scientist ever if not for media promotion of the first Jewish physical scientist ever (as opposed to previously well known skills in finance and literature), but he was certainly no dummy. He was brilliant enough to have made significant scientific discoveries (Photo-Electric effect and Relativity) long before he proposed the "Big Bang" theory. More importantly, he both escaped Germany as Hitler came to power and escaped entanglement with Israel, two of the most important life decisions that a European Jew of his generation could make.


That it's survived for almost a century and has nuclear weapons, Which sticks in the craw of many.


Do you not understand Israeli nuclear weapons are part of the "Samson Plan"; i.e. it's not either an offensive or a defensive weapon, but a self-immolation device hoping to take the neighborhood (and all the bank account books) with it. Israel doesn't have the strategic depth for fighting a nuclear war, and never will.

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