patrick.net

bert said: "Can you refi?"

CA is a non-recourse mortgage loan state which means if you fail meeting your mortgage, the house is the only security for the loan and the bank has no further recourse. They can't attach your other assets to pay for the money still owing on the mortgage. This holds true only for original mortgages. The safety net disappears if you refinance so base your refinancing decision on more than just monthly payment amounts. (Verify this with your own lawyer - your contracts and situation may vary.)

Hey Therapy,

How would anyone find out you were renting the place out? Is the city really gonna come knocking on your door? Don't they have bigger fish to fry... I'd "sublet" it quietly... let the renter know you want to keep it on the down low that you don't live there. Maybe keep having your mail delivered there ect....

anyway.. you are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. You'll take a big loss to sell it now... But then again, maybe even a bigger loss in a few years. I don't see condos increasing in demand anytime soon.. Most of my friends that moved into condos with HOAs tell me NEVER buy a condo... just rent until you can afford a stand-alone home. They say HOAs are a nightmare.. Who needs that stress when you can rent for less and say screw you to the landlord when your month to month lease kicks in.

Hooch_raider said: "As for my “being a man comment”, a man takes 100% responsibility for his actions."

Beam me up. I want to live in your world.

hooch_raider says

man comment

Hooch... your comment is really quite well stated... walking away now does not bode well for his parenthood.

In saying that... our nation's willingness to dump it's individuals' problems back on the rest of us is really what caused this situation ... moral hazard... and you make a good point that it has to stop.

I rescind my walk away recommedation.

don't be SCARED BY THE CREDIT_RATING BOOGEY MAN!

Seriously, I think all of us are 'programmed' to worship at the altar of FICO score. Circumstances where credit matters is when you get a loan for a car / house ..etc. You can certainly 'work the system'.

Like some body said, if you need a car get one now.

One of my buddy in Sacramento, he stopped paying and went through foreclosure. The builder / bank tried to scare him with 'your credit will be ruined for 7 years'. The guy lived in his house for 15 months... rent free before getting booted out.

When he moved out, he found a rental house he liked and told the land lord that he has a foreclosure on the record. What then offered $50 more than asking for rent. And put 1 year worth of rent in an escrow account (remember he had been saving mortgage for 15 months) - the escrow company mails the rent check to the landlord every month. Land lord is happy as a clam.

I told you this story, b/c there are ways to deal with credit ratings.... you don't have to be a slave for a bloody number.

permanent_marker says

Seriously, I think all of us are ‘programmed’ to worship at the altar of FICO score. Circumstances where credit matters is when you get a loan for a car / house ..etc. You can certainly ‘work the system’.

The Credit rating agencies are selling their services to every facet of American life.
Even for those of us that wish to never partake in the credtor/debtor system.
You can't get a job, you can't rent a house, you can't rent a car, you can't run for office, you can't "can't".

permanent_marker says

I told you this story, b/c there are ways to deal with credit ratings…. you don’t have to be a slave for a bloody number.

They are working on it PM, don't worry Dictatorships and Fascism is what happens when we just live and let live. The Numb Nutz on the Hill will invoke their right to revoke yours.

This economy can't collapse quick enough for me. I'm dancing a jig in the ashes as this incarnation of the "BEST SYSTEM IN THE WORLD" burns in Rome's embers.

The condo value will be cut at least in half (likely 70%) of current values in 3-4 years, and values will take minimum 20 years to get back to 2008 levels. Bail now.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/UserInfo-Steve_Moyer.html

Steve Moyer

rmm221 says

Hey Therapy,

How would anyone find out you were renting the place out? Is the city really gonna come knocking on your door? Don’t they have bigger fish to fry… I’d “sublet” it quietly… let the renter know you want to keep it on the down low that you don’t live there. Maybe keep having your mail delivered there ect….

Dunno what it's like in San Jose, but in NYC and environs any condo board would attempt to make an example out you for that... will send the owners and renters miserable threatening letters, warn of legal action. Then the renters will go after the owner for moving fees, expenses, all the other nonsense. Don't people have other stuff to do? Sadly, a lot don't. Hell, my neighbors know when someone comes in to water my freaking plants.

E-man says

Note: Therapy either works for the City of San Jose or Santa Clara County. So he has to repay the $30k immediately when he sells. He can’t default on this $30k loan.

If this is so he should have told us... my guess there is no way he can walk... unless as a government employee he has special immunity from collections action from money he accepted from his own employer... heaven only knows, but that may well be the case in San Jose. I am sure in SF he'd be home free.

Liz Pendens says

Dunno what it’s like in San Jose, but in NYC and environs any condo board would attempt to make an example out you for that… will send the owners and renters miserable threatening letters, warn of legal action. Then the renters will go after the owner for moving fees, expenses, all the other nonsense. Don’t people have other stuff to do? Sadly, a lot don’t. Hell, my neighbors know when someone comes in to water my freaking plants.

I don't see the problem.

I spent most of my adult life with out credit or a credit score, it didn't matter to me, because I was responsible enough to know that is a responsibility.
The worm turns on all of the high score morons that out Spent their means in Debt, then they walk away. These are the same bastards that lambasted me, for not being able to pay my piddly debt in 2002 when I found my self out of work and refused to pay the Bill Collection predators like "Sherman Acquisitions".
These bastards busted my balls for 200 and 300 dollar loans.

Now more than half of America wants to just walk away from 3 and 4 hundred thousand dollar loans, and all of a sudden that's prudent?

Not only have we turned into a whining society of Entitleists, we're a freaking nation of selective Virtues.

You're only expected to follow the rules and pay your way, when its the other Son of a bitches not paying an unjust $30 fee that makes its way to collection that then festers into a $1200 judgment.

But WOAH! those same phucksticks, criticizing the Cretins, hit the first obstacle they are the first to bail on their Obligations.

@E-man

It doesn't seem like an over extended issue, it's more of a "more space! baby on the way!" issue. 3 more years is nothing to wait. That takes care of the 30K. Renting out at that point is possible.

Parents start to think differently about things. Before baby it seems to be "SPACE!", after it's schools, parks, safety, neighbours, etc. It likely won't get much worse at this point. So holding the place for a few more years won't cost him anything really. He might as well wait it out, enjoy the condo for what it is and wait for the entire market to stabilize and also for his views on what he really needs to set in. He could end up with kid #2 in 3 years and then his space issues might change again!

A relative was in the same situation with a condo in San Diego. He managed to do a short-refinance/short-sale and walked away from the condo. He was worried he wouldn't be able to buy for ~7 years, but was able to buy a house about 2 years later. YMMV, but he was definitely glad to be free of the condo.

pkennedy says

Parents start to think differently about things.

Agreed. After my original post, i realized i should have said that too. People make decisions while in the "nesting" phase, but after the baby is born it's rarely as important as you think it would be. e.g. we thought we would need a bigger car in our nesting phase, but in retrospect i'd rather have saved the money. You'll probably end up in the same thunk ... wishing that you'd stayed in the smaller place and kept the money. So my advice is save as much money as you can. (BTW - also agree with the boat comment ...we also didn't have much room and it really helps limit the junk you will buy).

Thanks cevansnh and krndmg for your advice.

It is true with the HOA issue, it can drag down the whole community if more foreclosures happen.

I agree, that the housing situation can get worst than where we are right now. And I am very glad that we did not buy a home in the past few years. We are just scared about our small savings losing value through inflation.

What would you guys doing with your savings if the inflation kicks in? Please advice.

Thanks

The housing market is going to tumble and you will regret not selling or defaulting on your condo. I would get out ASAP and rent for a few years.

Father_of_two says

b) It is possible to get reasonable financing, based on my unemployed situation?

god i hope not.

no income. no house. simple.

It sounds like sitting tight and not doing anything is in your best financial interest. I don't think thats such a bad proposition and you can probably live happily with the space you have if you reconsider your lifestyle.

Mankind kind did without 800 sqft condos for hundreds of thousands of years just fine. An 800 sqft place would be considered palatial in places like Tokyo and Taiwan (and not too shabby for NY). There are people living happily in 150 sqft and less here in the US.

Take a good hard look at all the junk you've probably acquired over the years and ask yourself if you really need it. If you desperately do, go rent a storage space and keep it there. If not, get rid of it. Strongly consider downsizing your furniture. Ever consider a Japanese style futon for sleeping? They fold away during the day leaving leaving you more space.

There is a lot you can do by changing your mindset on what your living space is and how you use it.

I'm surprised no one is mentioning that this price is delusional. What the developer is trying to sell for is irrelevant.
I know this market well and at least another $100k needs to come off the price if you want to even try and compete with units that are actually selling in San Jose. The lack of any standard condo amenities is not exactly going to help either.
There is always demand if the price is right.
You only have two options. Suck it up and keep paying way more than you can rent an identical unit for or default.
BTW, be careful with comps for your individual property as foreclosures can look like sales on sites like Zillow. Knock on the doors of any recently sold places and make sure there is actually a new owner and find out what they paid. Comps that are the total mortgage owed to the bank are useless.

I was in a similar situation, except it was a house. I rented it out to cover the costs, and was worried about the bank finding out. The value kept dropping and I couldn't sell it because I was tied into the rental lease agreement. Two years later now that the tenants are gone the value is 1/3 underwater and my entire 30% downpayment is lost. I am working on a short sale and will lose all my equity. If I had sold two years ago I would have come out with some cash and salvaged my credit. Be aware that:

1) the market is still dropping and all signs are that it will for at least two more years.
2) having tenants means you can't sell
3) renting is cheaper than owning
4) many people will have credit hits by the time this recession/depression is over, and the banks will have to lower their standards if they want to lend new mortgages.
5) a short sale is less of a hit to your credit than a foreclosure. So is a deed in lieu. Think about one of these options. You will need to stop paying your mortgage for the bank to pay attention to you to get a short sale approved. The bank may do a deed in lieu without you stopping payments (though they may not take you seriously unless you stop).

Read Professor Brent White's articles and see if you still don't think walking away is the best option for you and your new family's future. If you decide on this, educate yourself thoroughly like I did, or use a good service (the only one I found wasn't a scam is youwalkaway.com - they really are legit)

Best of luck. I hope it turns out better for you than it did for me.

Father_of_two says

We are just scared about our small savings losing value through inflation.
What would you guys doing with your savings if the inflation kicks in? Please advice.
Thanks

Don't worry about inflation - all signs point toward deflation (in which case cash is king). This from many of the best unbiased economic minds (David Rosenberg, Nouriel Roubini etc.) Unemployment continues to rise, wages are dropping, prices on pretty much everything are dropping, etc. despite the government trying to pump up the money supply. It's all going into the black hole of debt destruction. Save your cash, put it in a (safe) bank and don't worry about the interest rate it earns. 5 years from now it will be worth more in real terms than if you bought a house now with it.

common_sense says

Unemployment continues to rise, wages are dropping, prices on pretty much everything are dropping, etc. despite the government trying to pump up the money supply

I don't know what is going to happen in the future but unemployment is holding steady or dropping slightly, wages are rising, and prices are rising (very moderately). Check your facts.

common_sense says

Father_of_two says

We are just scared about our small savings losing value through inflation.

What would you guys doing with your savings if the inflation kicks in? Please advice.

Thanks

Don’t worry about inflation - all signs point toward deflation (in which case cash is king). This from many of the best unbiased economic minds (David Rosenberg, Nouriel Roubini etc.) Unemployment continues to rise, wages are dropping, prices on pretty much everything are dropping, etc. despite the government trying to pump up the money supply. It’s all going into the black hole of debt destruction. Save your cash, put it in a (safe) bank and don’t worry about the interest rate it earns. 5 years from now it will be worth more in real terms than if you bought a house now with it.

What the FED wants, it will get. Inflation/hyperinflation will take hold of this country.

For all the deflationists out there, can someone explain to me why the UN, Russia and China are working to remove the US dollar as the world reserve currency???? If we are going to have massive deflation (and not inflation), wouldn't that mean that the US dollar and T-Bills are going to be very strong? Why would they want to get rid of the US dollar if it's very strong and stable?

tatupu70 says

common_sense says
Unemployment continues to rise, wages are dropping, prices on pretty much everything are dropping, etc. despite the government trying to pump up the money supply
I don’t know what is going to happen in the future but unemployment is holding steady or dropping slightly, wages are rising, and prices are rising (very moderately). Check your facts.

Thats right Common listen to tatu and walk the other way.....

Silicon Valley tech salaries down 1%

For the first time in five years, Silicon Valley technology professionals reported salary declines in an online survey by the career site Dice.com.

The average salary of $96,299 still ranks as one of the nation's highest, but it declined 1 percent from last year, according to 1,260 Silicon Valley-based respondents who were among the nearly 17,000 tech professionals who took the survey between August and November.

Technology workers for hardware companies are the best paid in the region, averaging $111,811, followed by those working in financial services ($109,695), telecommunications ($101,627) and software ($101,060).

Valley CEO pay down last year, but not by much
CEO pay fell in Silicon Valley last year, but it could have been worse.

The median pay package the valley's boards of directors awarded their chief executives dropped 5.6 percent, to $2.2 million, while overall pay among the Standard & Poor's group of 500 companies fell even more, 7.5 percent, to $8 million.

And though the recession hasn't spared the valley's CEOs, it did far worse damage to Wall Street, where CEO paychecks were down in the financial services industry by 38.5 percent as major companies vanished, zeroing out their leaders' pay.

But bonuses awarded to the valley's chief executives dropped sharply, falling 31 percent to a median of $242,000. That drop was bigger than what was seen among the S&P 500 group of companies, where bonuses were down 22.2 percent, said Alexander Cwirko-Godycki, research manager at Equilar, an information services firm specializing in executive compensation research that supplied CEO compensation data to the Mercury News.

The percentage of valley CEOs receiving bonuses, which are slightly more indicative than salaries of how boards view their CEOs' performance, fell from 87.3 percent to 73.6 percent

Hewlett-Packard’s pay cuts are a further sign that the economic crisis that roiled Wall Street last year has spread to Silicon Valley. The decision, following Hurd’s announcement of about 24,700 job cuts in September, is part of a cost- containment effort among companies dealing with the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

Hewlett-Packard, based in Palo Alto, California, fell $2.69, or 7.9 percent, to $31.39 at 4 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. That was the biggest drop since August 2004.

Since June 2008, at least 106 companies have reduced their executives’ pay, according to Equilar Inc., an executive- compensation firm in Redwood City, California. Out of 106 companies tracked, 39 percent are in the technology industry, making it the largest industry undertaking executive pay cuts.

‘More Egalitarian’

“Technology companies tend to have a more egalitarian culture,” said Alexander Cwirko-Godycki, research manager at Equilar. “CEOs are trying to share the pain with the rank and file. Mark Hurd’s 20 percent reduction is pretty consistent with what we’re seeing.”

The rest of Silicon Valley is feeling the pain. Intel Corp., the world’s largest semiconductor maker, has eliminated its budget for merit pay or promotions, CEO Paul Otellini said last month in a memo to employees. He said he received e-mails from employees saying they would rather take pay cuts than lose a job or see co-workers terminated.

Applied Materials Inc., the largest maker of machinery used to manufacture semiconductors, announced pay cuts of 10 percent for senior executives effective Feb 9., adding to an earlier reduction of 10 percent. That news came after CEO Mike Splinter reported Applied’s first net loss in more than five years.

Freezing Pay

“Across America and American industry, executive pay is going to be a hot topic for at least the next year,” said Alan Johnson, founder of Johnson Associates Inc., a New York-based compensation consultant. “There’s certainly a fervor when one company does it that others may have to match.”

Yahoo! Inc., owner of the second-most popular U.S. search engine, froze annual pay raises for 2009, while its larger rival Google Inc. has curbed hiring and gave most workers a G1 mobile phone in place of a $1,000 cash gift for the holidays.

Are we talking about the Silicon Valley tech market? If so, then you are right Thomas. I was referring to median US wages.

Everyone is feeling the pinch!

Thomas, that was old news when 600K jobs are lost monthly over 18 months or so, 2010 is a little different. Headcount dump is mostly over and 2010 will be raise year. My spouse got 15% recently vs. 3% last year.

RobertShiller says

For all the deflationists out there, can someone explain to me why the UN, Russia and China are working to remove the US dollar as the world reserve currency???? If we are going to have massive deflation (and not inflation), wouldn’t that mean that the US dollar and T-Bills are going to be very strong? Why would they want to get rid of the US dollar if it’s very strong and stable?

It's all relative, really. Can you explain why they have been unsuccessful to remove the dollar?
Wasn't it just last week the Euro was broke and was plummeting, as the dollar was shooting up?
In just one short day, someone gave lip service and the whole thing turned around.

Or why the market was cratering the end of last week up until yesterday, then presto whamm-o We're back!

How in the hell does that magic happen?

"The nation's debt leapt $166 billion in a single day last week, the third-largest increase in U.S. history, and it comes at a time when Congress is balking over higher spending and debt has become a key policy battleground.

The one-day increase for June 30 totaled $165,931,038,264.30 - bigger than the entire annual deficit for fiscal year 2007 and larger than the $140 billion in savings the new health care bill will produce over its first 10 years. The figure works out to nearly $1,500 for every U.S. household, or more than 10 times the median daily household income."

China might own us, but WE are the Euro and the DOW.

The Dow would be lucky to be 1200 points since '07, if our politicians weren't hell bent on emptying our treasury to make all of the 401k'ers feel warm and fuzzy inside.

m1ckey6 says

I know this market well and at least another $100k needs to come off the price if you want to even try and compete with units that are actually selling in San Jose.

I mentioned this a little bit earlier as well. I don't mean to be a pessimist, but of course there will be no demand for a $275k condo that's worth $150k. You will need to be at The 88 building or something, above the Marketplace supermarket to have that kind of price for a 1 bedroom.

I understand walking away is currently not an option for you because it is implanted in your mind that you have about $65k equity. But it's time to face it that your equity is lost, underwater. Even if someone were to pay $275k for your condo, and didn't care about the fact that he is over paying, a bank will not loan them much more than $100k for your property.

But since you do not seem financially troubled, you may as well just rent this out silently, or just remain seated.

SF ace says

Thomas, that was old news when 600K jobs are lost monthly over 18 months or so, 2010 is a little different. Headcount dump is mostly over and 2010 will be raise year. My spouse got 15% recently vs. 3% last year.

She works in a CPA firm if i recall right? Thats a partnership correct ?

Tenouncetrout, That was pointless, you avoided my question.

thomas.wong1986 says

SF ace says

Thomas, that was old news when 600K jobs are lost monthly over 18 months or so, 2010 is a little different. Headcount dump is mostly over and 2010 will be raise year. My spouse got 15% recently vs. 3% last year.

She works in a CPA firm if i recall right? Thats a partnership correct ?

Correct the partners certainly didn't take a pay cut as well, we have pretty good visibility on pay plans through client service work. I know some will get more and some will get less, but 2010 will not be a paycut year. Most will expect modest raise.

SF ace says

Correct the partners certainly didn’t take a pay cut as well, we have pretty good visibility on pay plans through client service work. I know some will get more and some will get less, but 2010 will not be a paycut year. Most will expect modest raise.

She is in a sweet spot working for a partnership but not everyone works in a partnership which provides much needed and required services. Its much different world in the corporate offices when we talk about trimming budgets/comps, and thats what we are still seeing. Her firm may well have better pricing power to allow some increases.

Do not buy again, at least for a few more years. Seriously, why are you so ready to throw even more money away? Housing prices are still historically too high. (See numerous purchase price to yearly income charts). A 20% downpayment today, in my opinion, is immediately lost on closing, and your are probably signing up for another short sale.

Many posters are right - young kids don't need a room, and don't take up much space until they start having all the crap that they don't need. More likely, you and the wife need the kid to have a room, and that's a legitimate, but not immediate, need.

Fire your realtor - if he's never seen a tough market, he doesn't have enough experience and isn't worth paying 6%. Short sell your condo, no matter how low. The ding to your credit is the same whether the short sale is a modest discount, or a huge one.

The future belongs to renters.

Because citing Russia and China's desire to ditch the Dollar(which they can't) as proof we're heading to massive inflation. Is as pointless as debating Marijuana legalization in this country. It's a fuzzy topic but it will never happen. On a Federal level.

We never actually grew our way out of the Tech crash and ultimate recession, we just created debt. Which the majority of will never be paid back. To top it off our government gave the banks mulligans in Trillions, so the bad debt is not on their balance sheets.
Hell we never even got out of this recession, much less acknowledged its still in full force and has been for almost three straight years.

There's hundreds of trillions of dollars that have been printed in the last two years and pumped into the banks.

While more than 80% of Real Estate deals have been cash deals.

There's a lot of money there's no stress on the money supply, even with the lack of employment.

Every commodity across the board is cheaper today than it was 2007, other than GOLD.
Which was artificially ran up to $1200 levels SOLEY!(and this is important) based on the Inflation/Hyperinflation Theorists, which has yet to come into fruition.

Gold has stalled at the $1200 mark, and coincides in the ramp up of "SELL YOUR GOLD" commercials.

Gold will be back at $300 an oz again long before the rest of the world ditches the dollar.

Oh and my dollar that was 1.58 against the Euro in '07, is at $1.26, and if the Government didn't print a couple hundred more Trillion last week, it would still be at 1.21 where it was, and well on it's way to 1:1 against the Euro.

I guess the answer to your question is, and thankfully so... "Cooler heads wont let them."

Tenouncetrout - you should run for senate and show Ron Paul that he has no idea what's he's talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhYfm4f7PXQ

E-man says

@ SF ace, pkennedy and Hooch,
Therapy bought this condo for $324k. He put 20% of his own money down, $65k, and an additional $30k (interest free) from the City of San Jose, totaling $95k. After paying for almost 2 years. he now owes about $225k on the loan. So here is the math with some round up numbers.
$225 loan + $30k CSJ debt + $15k transaction costs to sell = $270k. This is how he came up with his asking price of $275k, and would likely accept an offer of $265k.
The problem is this condo will not sell for that price. It would likely won’t comp’ed out. This is the reason why he can’t walkaway from this condo because he owes only $225k on it. That was why I said he has no other option than hanging onto this condo.
@ therapy,
Please tell us if E-man is wrong. Your silence means that E-man is correct. That was why I believe you’ve explored all avenues and didn’t like the results. I can help you get creative to dump this condo, but it would still won’t comp’ed out due to the market.

You're pretty much right on the money, except that I'm privately employed and don't work for the government in any way.

Interestingly, I was just told something somewhat interesting by my city loan representative. She said that the city acts as a "silent second" (ie - they never report data to the credit agencies, which explains why that $30k never showed up on any credit report), and that they accept short sales frequently, and never report the short sale to credit agencies.

Which means that I could short sale that $30k second (as long as the ~$220k first is satisfied fully) and have no adverse effects on my credit.

I understand some of your comments about credit cards, but I had bad credit for a long time in my early and mid 20s. It took me a few years to fix it, and I've built up my score again by being responsible. I know how difficult it can be to do things without good credit. (getting a cell phone, a cable bill, buying a new car, having a card with a balance big enough for emergencies, etc)

I'm never going to punish my credit rating again.

My decision is to leave the house on the market for the rest of the year, and if it sells, fine. If not, fine.

I'm able to make the payments (quite easily now that we're a dual income household), and the baby will be fine there for a while.

Hey there therapy:

Check out used office furniture stores for a small office partition for your baby's space. Just one section is all you'll need, however, if you want, go for the curved end unit so it semi-wraps around your baby's space.
Gives a separation between you and him/her plus the benefit of noise absorption.
The fiberglass partitions by Steelcase or Pleon are the best.

You can tuck decorator fabric into the partition and make it fit in with your decor.

Your baby will get used to sleeping through noise. You can also use a playpen and do double-duty with it as a bed plus playspace. I rec also getting an Elfa storage bin on casters plus a bin for toys.

As long as you maintain adult/family space in your unit, you'll do OK.

~Misstrial

Way to go therapy. Sounds like you've thought through some of the options. Best of luck to you.

RobertShiller says

For all the deflationists out there, can someone explain to me why the UN, Russia and China are working to remove the US dollar as the world reserve currency???? If we are going to have massive deflation (and not inflation), wouldn’t that mean that the US dollar and T-Bills are going to be very strong? Why would they want to get rid of the US dollar if it’s very strong and stable?

Russia, China concern is more about risk of default and the uncertainty around US monetary policy based on 3 years of exploding deficits. Even the IMF is now concerned and issued a warning tonight. The commodity currencies (CAD, Aus, NZ) at least have something tangible to back them up. China is being incredibly smart in turning all those (increasingly worthless) Treasuries into hard assets - buying up and stock piling commodities, foreign ports and railroads, mines all over the world, developing African partnerships, even buying Greek islands. It is rather frightening to think where we'll be 10 years from now - controlled by China? Basically they already own us, if they were to call in all Treasuries the US would be hooped. But I digress, this is supposed to be a forum about housing issues...