patrick.net

swissmiss:
can you elaborate on the swiss tax structure? (e.g. what income levels are taxed at what amounts, and what benefits are provided that would be paid for with after-tax dollars here in the States?)

Brand Says:

> Punchbowl: I think you’re forgetting about the trim,
> sparky (Swiss) blondes whose looks never age
> past a vintage 40.

It has been over 10 years since my last trip to Switzerland and just thinking about it now I can’t remember seeing a single fat person or meeting a single person that did not speak any English.

It’s sad to say that a Swiss person could visit many parts of the US and return home to say that they didn’t see a single thin person or meet a singe person that spoke Swiss-German (or spoke English as well as the average person on Switzerland).

The Swiss do age well and I can’t think of a country that has a higher percentage of great looking women in their 40’s and 50’s…

newsfreak says: Brand- Ever been to the Never Summer range in Colorado? How about the Wind Rivers in Wyoming or the back side of the Rubys in Nevada. Or Pine Creek in Penna or Mt Marcy in the Adirondaks. How about Bryce canyon in the winter? Although I have the deepest respect for people who live and work in places like NYC or SF I for the life of me I will never understand them.

Of course. I live in Fort Collins, Colrado. My favorite weekend activity is taking a long drive up to Rocky Mountain National Park. I am from the East Coast, and have been canoeing in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey, camping in the Poconos and backpacking in the Adirondaks many times.

I tend to agree with you, I am not a city guy. That's why I moved out west. But you're making Switzerland sound like some densely packed hellhole. Their cities have a lot of people. The Swiss Alps are miles of craggy peaks and untamed wilderness with broad rivers running next to them. They easily give Colorado's Front Range a run for its money in terms of stark beauty. Little port towns dot the rivers, and tiny villages are nestled amongst the mountains. Switzerland is a beautiful place. I wish I had spent more time there.

Punchbowl says: Brand: As long as they wear those leather pants. Spätzle also an asset.

Hell yeah, spätzle is pretty wicked. Although once you get saturated on egg noodles, beer and maultachen (sp), the cuisine in Bavaria and Switzerland gets old fast. Northern Italy... I could dine there for a long, long time and not get tired of it. Plus I think Italian women might be the most beautiful in all of Europe, if not the most entertaining.

FAB says: It has been over 10 years since my last trip to Switzerland and just thinking about it now I can’t remember seeing a single fat person or meeting a single person that did not speak any English.

Well, first of all, Europeans smoke like crazy. Secondly, they walk damn near everywhere in town. I ate and drank like a fiend the last time I was over there, but the two mile walk to work every day caused me to lose some weight (plus hikes around Munich, Tubingen, etc.). And finally... they have this thing called "moderation" over there. Americans are often lampooned as voracious, greedy people who have an endless appetite for food, drink, sex, luxury and an easy life. We can't seem to restrain ourselves from vain attempts to live larger than life, as evidenced by reality shows and MTV garbage like Pimp My Ride.

I want to get back to Europe someday. Their attitude about what's important in life is just different than ours. For many in "eastern" Western Europe, a few candles, a bottle of wine and some good food shared with friends seems to be their primary objective in life.

FAB says: The Swiss do age well and I can’t think of a country that has a higher percentage of great looking women in their 40’s and 50’s…

I love Swiss women for their looks. They are like a fine wine that only gets better with age. Italian women might give them a run for their money, not necessarily on physically aging very well, but just for being really cool in their 50's and 60's. The nice ones are exciting and fun to be around no matter their age.

What I like most about Swiss women is that the aren't interested in trying to claw pathetically at a younger image. They age gracefully, and there's something to be said for that.

Swissmiss,

Re: taxes. I ran some tax simulations and you should only pay 1/3 of your paycheck to taxes (including FICA) when you get to around the $250k range. Do you get a decent sized tax refund every April or do you have large other income sources?

So, perhaps you're raking it in, or your employer is withholding too much.

I found this on Swiss income taxes: Link

At first glance, it looks like you will pay up to 30% in income tax (progressive scale), and another 10% social security. That doesn't sound like it's too far from what you see here.

I just always get the feeling that “renters” over here in the USA are some kind of “second class” people
and you don’t get this feeling over there - less pressure to bcome a home-owner

American Dream(TM)

Any economists here?

Could someone take a pass through this PowerPoint presentation?

http://www.prudentbear.com/Ppt/stillbear05.ppt

Are things really as doomed as they seem to be? Are we headed for a super bear period??

Anyone notice that most new Sunnyvale listings on Redfin today are all 0 bath and have either ALL CAPS or excessive *'s?

Damn hit the submit button too soon...check out:

611 ARCADIA TER #00104
810 PEACH AVE
125 S MARY AVE
612 S FAIROAKS AVE
3446 BONITA AVE
1257 SOCORRO AVE

The CAPS arent as suspect as the prodigious use of *'s in a couple listings. And unless the MLS changes how # of baths is listed...humm...

"can’t blame americans since it’s a different system. Most families here have to work 3 jobs to pay their bills… I’m sure the “house-flippers” do well though!

I have the feeling that some real estate investors made enough money the past 5 years to retire… "

Hmmm, and I thought trolls were Swedish.

I love Switzerland, for about 4 days at a time. I've spent more time in the French part than the German or Italian part.

Peter P.,

There is a good fondue restaurant between Pacific Heights and Russian Hill called The Matterhorn. They have a very good wine list.

Peter P.,

We have friends with a house that actually looks like a giant music box outside of Geneva and the house has a raclette/fondue room downstairs! Apparently it is considered stinky, so this house had a seperate room to make raclettes and fondues. It had a big refectory table and a chimney without a fireplace that had a brick base with the fondue and raclette maker on it.

They never made me fondue, neither of the couple liked it.

Fun with Dick and Jane. When that movie came out I predicted it was a sign of things to come. Keep a close eye on your neighbor, chances are they are struggling, and hard times sometimes bring out the worst in people. Nothing is more dangerous than a baby boomer who can't have something they want NOW!

Brand Says:

> Well, first of all, Europeans smoke like crazy.

Smoking has always been something you have to deal with when traveling in Europe. I did hear some good news on NPR this morning:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6151337

> I love Swiss women for their looks. They are like a
> fine wine that only gets better with age. Italian women
> might give them a run for their money, not necessarily
> on physically aging very well, but just for being really
> cool in their 50’s and 60’s.

The 17 year old Italian girls (who look like 23 year old American models) are many times hotter than the 17 year old Swiss girls (who look like 14 year old American Catholic School girls), but at 30 most Italian girls have peaked while most Swiss woman will get better looking (in that classy looking older woman kind of way) for over 20 more years…

> What I like most about Swiss women is that the aren’t
> interested in trying to claw pathetically at a younger
> image. They age gracefully, and there’s something
> to be said for that.

To me there is nothing hotter than the (rare) smart confident American woman in her 30’s that has not botoxed away her few wrinkles and destroyed her beautiful natural hair color by trying to color away a few gray hairs…

FAB,

The Italian women up north (Lake Como) age beautifully.

Even when women in Europe have plastic surgery it seems to be less dramatic. They seem to want to look good at their age instead of trying to look 20 years younger (and merely looking eerily preserved).

But then again perhaps I like that European look because I'm not 20 anymore? I have a couple of friends who are like I am, and we are just going to take great care of our skin and figures and mental sharpness as we age. I have other friends my age who started five years ago on the Botox, collagen, Restylane, etc. claiming that you need to start before you seem to need it, for 'prevention.' Do what keeps you happy.

The low latitude glaciers are all melting. Colorado and Switzerland are both running out of snow covered ranges.

Canadian Rockies and Alaska are probably better anyways.

Do that many women really take up plastic surgery as they age? I've known a couple of conspicuous fake boobs and a few faces with obvious signs of rhinoplasty, and tannorexia up the galore.

Of course, I don't run with the Alex Kuczynskis of the world... A fact I'm quite grateful for.

"it’s called GLOBAL WARMING…. "

Wow, did that particular gem of knowledge come with the Swiss passport?

Go hog attention elsewhere.

astrid says: The low latitude glaciers are all melting. Colorado and Switzerland are both running out of snow covered ranges. Canadian Rockies and Alaska are probably better anyways.

Out West them's fightin' words, little miss East Coaster. And let me tell you, it has been plenty damn cold this winter in Colorado. I more believe the reports that the sun has more control over this planet than CO2 (not that we shouldn't worry about CO2, btw, and our pollutant belching cars).

My mountains are beautiful. If you can find something in Maryland or D.C. (or wherever you are exactly) that comes close to the Rockies, let me know. I've been on the East Coast and done that... for all the winning points, landscape ain't one of them. :)

SQT says: But Swissmiss only reinforces my opinion of the abrasiveness of their personalities.

That's because you're a Californian (or a Midwesterner originally, am I right?). Abrasiveness is relative. In Penna. Dutch county I learned to call it like it is. There's no shame in blunt honesty. We're talking about the Amish and Mennonites, the most peaceful people in the United States, but they're still straightforward. Perhaps some cultures like to round off the sharp edges, but why waste time? That's why NY trounces San Francisco. If you don't want to waste another minute on somebody, it's your God given right to SAY SO. What's it to ya?

Your abrasive is my honest. Not so much the crowd of "the dish is not shiny, you call this wine?". That's just being snotty. No village anywhere would stand for that b.s. I think swissmiss called it like it is. Like it or not, at least she's not sinking in the quagmire of political correctness.

LOL. If swissmiss is in fact ConfusedRenter (or one of his associate fools), then I will stand summarily corrected. But she sounds awfully damn close to a lot of southern Germans and Swiss I know.

There is a good fondue restaurant between Pacific Heights and Russian Hill called The Matterhorn. They have a very good wine list.

Thanks, SFW, we will find an opportunity to try it out.

Brand,

LOL! You mean it might be a bad idea for me to extol the superiority of the Four Corners Area relative to Yosemite? And oh, the superiority of Zhangjiajie to the Grand Canyon...

(I'll be hiding upstairs, in DC, away from the angry West Coast lynch mob).

In all seriousness, I do love the West. East of the Rockies just doesn't compare. My boyfriend and I decided to took Skyline drive in Shenandoah National Park down to his parents last Xmas. After driving for about 90 minutes, we're like "this is it?" We've been spoilt by the beauty there.

But dude, Colorado has nothing on Mt. Rainier...

(dodging metaphorical bullets)

The best thing in IMO about Switzerland is the skiing - awesome mountains. We skied the Wengen/Murren/Gridelwald areas a couple of years back, and man that was good stuff. Believe it or not, the food is good too. Lots and lots of veal. Especially delicious because it angers the PETA people...

swissmiss is CLEARLY not confused renter. maybe tricia (see many posts earlier in this thread) is.

SFWoman Says:

> But then again perhaps I like that European look because
> I’m not 20 anymore? I have a couple of friends who are like
> I am, and we are just going to take great care of our skin
> and figures and mental sharpness as we age.

I bet the divorce rate for slim smart women with positive attitudes is in the low single digits. There is a great picture of 66 year old retired Stanford Brain Surgeon Frances Conley in this month’s 7x7 Magazine that reminds me of my Grandma (who always looked her age, but looked great until she died). SF Woman probably has a copy of 7x7 Magazine since they have been delivering it to every home in the North part of the city for over a year, but anyone can do a Google Image Search for “Frances Conley” to see a photo of the lady. The 7x7 article mentions Conley and her husband have a place in Sea Ranch and just this Monday a PBS special on life of (the brilliant) Milton Freidman mentioned that Friedman and his wife (who some say was even more brilliant than he was) spent a lot of time at their place in Sea Ranch. I don’t know if there is any coloration between smart women, long marriages and weekend places in Sonoma County but it looks like SFWoman is on the right track…

Wood River Says: Heres a word from CH for you: Tchuess Tchuess

Um... bye bye bye bye? Nice grammar, Herr Wood River. The encapsulated phrase is tschüss. Even though it is equivalent, it is not perfectly interchangable with the English "good bye". I have never had a Schwabian or Swiss resident say tschüss tschüss. Only tschüss.

Perhaps I am wrong? If you're going to flaunt knowledge of a European language, do it the right way.

[/rant]

New thread: Solving the bubble problem for good

I know from conversations with many people here that most are professionals, frugal and pretty intelligent.

I am a code monkey who spends too much on food and is far from intelligent. :(

Perhaps it is time for me to get a loan.

SQT says: Swissmiss bothered me because she came in without knowing anything about anyone and waving her nationality and claiming her superiority despite living here. I agree with those who say, if you dislike us so much, why are you here? I’m not saying you have to love us, but there’s no reason to immediately throw around assumptions and insult people. She brought up her nationality and began the off-topic tangents, not the rest of us. And then in an oh-so-superior attitude decides to chide the rest of us for responding.

Hm. Let's replace "nationality" with "being a renter". Oh wait, that would make everyone on patrick.net sound like a snot for being JBR's beating on the FB's, wouldn't it? Are we so damned superior for noticing that there's a bubble in progress? And how are you making money from it? Or is that impolite question of mine (which has been put forth many times) going to lead you to declare me an elitist?

swissmiss was bashing the American debtor nation, as well as ridiculous housing prices in LA. A rational person would detatch themselves from the "slurs" against America, because we have been arguing for months or years that LA and other areas are under the effects of a bubble. You aren't part of the credit bubble, so why are you defending attacks on the U.S. from that vector? Misplaced patriotism? From her perspective living in LA for 10 years, this is the American experience for swissmiss. While a little bit narrow in view, seeing as it is limited to a freakishly bizarre bubble area (Los Angeles), it is no more insular or silly than people like newsfreak saying how overcrowded it is in Switzerland.

eburbed Says:
Any economists here?

One or two...

palo alto renter Says:
The US has been in a housing bubble here for about ten years. Prior to that, there were probably about 250 years of significantly less “pressure” to own.

No, it's been millions of years of housing ownership, passed down from tree shrews...

Bap33 Says:

Harm, is “loanership” already a registered patric-ism?

Not yet! It's very similar to "loanowner" (one of my favorites), but worthy of mention in the Glossary.

SP:

Could you post the link to the Reuters article on New Century?

Thanks much,
Paul

Brand,

We are not superior for noticing a bubble in progress. We are superior because we noticed it WELL PRIOR to any documented recognition in the MSM period.

Actually I've been sounding the alarm since 1997, so it's "my" bubble.

swissmiss Says:

I’m tired of waiting that house-prices come down…or that Bush gets impeached (uups) ….that’s why we’ll be moving back soon - just waiting for the swiss-visa for my husband.

Yes as a european, I prefer a bottle of chianti, candles, fondue and a good talk with my “lederhosen” friends then to pay off a huge mortgage of a termite-press-wood house here in Los Angeles…cheerio
_____

...And don't let the door hit you in your neutral, Sw'ass (Swiss-miss-ass) on the way out...cornflake

dear swisstroll, before you try revisionism, lets examine your second post,

to DinOR

cheers!

I would have to say you are kind of a jerk, first you hurl 2 insults at the US, no big deal, it does suck here, then you go on to insult DinOR, a regular contributor here without researching his past. Then you get your feelings hurt? Hmmmm, why don't you get out your lederhosen and just go back to the bucolic nation you call home?

I would have to classify you in the NVA category. Non value added.

swissmiss,

Your freedom of speech doesn't prevent other people from responding to your sparkling personality. If you treat other people like idiots and start insulting them before you even know anything about them - you shouldn't be surprised that they are offended.

And no, being kind to stray animals does not give you a pass through life.

But I have found that it is usually people who have never traveled outside the U.S., or who have only had brief vactions to other countries, who are the first to speak up and deride the U.S.

oh, i wouldn't say that... :P

swissmiss says:
than to pay off a huge mortgage of a termite-press-wood house here in Los Angeles…

well..I heard from my hubby that houses up North are built much better and nice then here in LA… I guess I chose the wrong location.

Coincidentally, speaking of termites here and dodgy realtors in an earlier thread, a workmate just told me about his experience last year when he was about to purchase a house -- it was on a hill with a great view, nice house and property, and he put down a $1,500 holding deposit on it, basically non-refundable. He then arranged pest inspections, etc, the inspector refused to go up into the roof cos it was 'too cramped', but found evidence of termite damage elsewhere that had been 'fixed'. So my friend actually goes back to the place to look in the roof himself, and, you got it, found loads of termite damage in the timbers, so no sale, as the cost of repairs would be prohibitive. It's highly likely the realtor and vendor knew about this problem before going to market. Naturally, the realtor/vendor double-headed monster wouldn't return the holding deposit. My friend now realises the order of events is important, plus lots of contingency clauses in writing if you're going to put down a holding deposit, as you simply can't trust people's motivations... The realtor was also playing a game of 'I've got another offer' with an invisible bidder, which took him completely unawares. People seem to have to find out about the chicanery the hard way...

It's a case of "so you bought an overpriced house riddled with termite damage that we didn't tell you about costing you even more -- you should be happy you have you own place! I know I'm happy with the commission I got from selling a lemon to you"

Ditto for the realtor who cleverly sold a house where a gruesome murder had just taken place (of the parents by their son!) to arriving Thai Buddhists who wre horrified to find out later. Fair Trading didn't do anything til it hit the papers, then fined the realtor $50K and reversed the transaction, only after negative press...

mrcool,

That's the best come back you could come up with? PATHETIC. What are you? 15.

Insulting behavior is a lot more acceptable (or at least interesting) when accompanied by some inkling of intelligence.

First of all, America is not just a landmass but also a country. You don't have to have 10,000 years of ancestral inhabitation (and how many full blooded native Americans do you know?) to claim allegiance to America.

And even "native Americans" have ancestors who came from elsewhere. Should we also make room for the spirits of extinguished woolly mammoth?

Oh, thou dost protest too much. Interesting how you didn't mention how you or Switzerland rose above America's folly, or attempt to correct those follies in a positive manner.

But perhaps (or should I say "certainly") putting other people down makes you feel superior. I suppose that's all someone with your rather limited intellect and less than charismatic personality can muster.