patrick.net

I'm waiting... Are you still evading the question by asking more questions? Sad. Until you do me the courtesy of answering me and educating me, because I asked first, I'm not going to waste my time picking apart what you just wrote. Quid pro quo.

You will never accept anything I say, because you will only "read stuff that confirms" your worldview.

If you do not want to waste time picking apart what I wrote than stop reading. I am under no obligation to educate you, I write only for the entertainment of myself and those who agree with me.

Peter P, at least you admit that you can't back up anything you say and that this is merely "entertainment." I'll make sure I give your comments the attention they deserve from now on in light of your honesty. Thanks, it'll save me lot's of time.

Thanks. Merry Christmas.

Peter--

I might accept what you say, but you have to present your views with logic and data that backs up your ideas. Just saying the same thing over and over doesn't mean it's correct. You have to explain to me why and what your ideas are to fix it.

If you can't do that then you're just wasting all of our time....

Some data:

In 2008 there were 16,605 corporate jets in the world.

Of this number, 11,824 were based in the US, 2,507 were based in Europe, 853 were based in Asia and the Middle East and 150 were based in Oceana. The balance of 1,271 were from elsewhere.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jameshall/100001847/the-us-tops-the-corporate-jet-league-but-for-how-long/

Jet ownership is a very good measure of business success.

You too! Merry Christmasâ„¢!*

*Brought to you by the Corporatocracy that has successfully transformed Christmas from a religious celebration into a meaningless display of rampant materialism and greed.

Yacht ownership, on the other hand, is more about opulence.

Most large yachts (longer than 300 feet) are NOT owned by Americans. They usually have Middle-Eastern or European owners.

from a religious celebration into a meaningless display of rampant materialism and greed

What if my religion involves materialism and greed? :-)

Peter P says

Jet ownership is a very good measure of business success

Was anyone arguing that Corporate America doesn't waste money on extravagances? Because I think America is definitely #1 in corporate malfeasance...

How does that help your point though?

Corporate jet is not an extravagance. I will get back to you on this. I am hungry. Need to get lunch.

Peter P says

from a religious celebration into a meaningless display of rampant materialism and greed

What if my religion involves materialism and greed?

Then you're in business... ;-)

elvis says

If the Constitution is the underlying document of conservatives, independents, libertarians, Republicans and other freedom loving, patriotic Americans, what is the underlying document of liberals, free-loaders, Democrats, socialists, and elitists? Anyone?

I'm so tired of this canard.

We liberals, patriots, Democrats, free-thinkers, leftists, independents, progressives, freedom loving Americans, and moral human beings operate from the same US Constitution that the conservatives, Corporate Overlords, fascists, fundamentalists, Republicans, and racists pretend to hold in such high regard whilst pissing all over it.

@Elvis

"your kind"?? nice try. Generalizations are a standard tool of AM radio. Glad you've been listening so well...

elvis says

No, your kind are the freedom haters and rights destroyers.

Which party passed the Patriot Act? The largest destroyer of rights in US history...

elvis says

No, your kind are the freedom haters and rights destroyers. Moral human beings don’t kill their own offspring. Capitalism has created the highest standard of living in the world. How many countries in the world have become prosperous through Socialism? (Hint: NONE). Its your kind, the liberal, democratic, socialistic politicians that completely reject the Constitution…through action, and continue the march toward socialism.
“The real destroyer of liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits.” (Translation: he who spreads the wealth).
Ronald Reagan, Oct 27, 1964 (probably said before Owebama was born).

Nice try dude. Keep trying to paint all "liberals" as socialists. But alas, that label doesn't work at all. American Liberals are vehement capitalists. We just want a level playing field. American Conservative Orthodoxy (now that there's a "purity test") wants to give massive "gubmint" subsidies (read "corporate welfare"), tax cuts, and massive controls over labor to their Corporate Masters and the very rich at the expense of the middle classes and poor. Ronnie Raygun wouldn't even meet today's "purity test" for American Conservative Orthodoxy in the Republican party.

tatupu70 says

elvis says

No, your kind are the freedom haters and rights destroyers.

Which party passed the Patriot Act? The largest destroyer of rights in US history…

I can't wait to read this answer if he ever decides to answer it directly instead of using his usual insults, generalizations, and evasions.

Elvis--

Anyone who continues to use "you people" loses all credibility with me. If blaming everything on liberals or Democrats helps you sleep at night, then by all means, keep believing it. But if you would like to grow up and understand how the world really works, try broadening your horizons and opening your mind.

As you may have noticed from the health care debate, Democrats are quite a diverse group with many differing views. Painting them all with the same brush is just small minded.

elvis says

Would anyone dare to quote a liberal, socialist, free-loader, or “Progressive,” with a statement that SUPPORTS individual freedom or liberty for all? You know, something like this: “Who ever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech” (Did I hear someone say “Fairness Doctrine?”) Benjamin Franklin, 1706 - 1790.

You must be a big fan of orwell. As the FCC opinion killing the "Fairness Doctrine" managed to say, offering opposing viewpoints is actually a restriction on free speech. Perfect orwellspeak. Obedience is freedom, freedom is obedience.

Reagan killed the fairness doctrine because it required users of public airwaves to air opinions on both sides if a broadcaster wanted to air opinions, forcing the right wing broadcasters to include other viewpoints. The key word there is IF. Broadcasters were FREE to not broadcast opinion at all. Broadcaster were FREE to broadcast all the opinion they wanted, as long as they allowed dissenting opinions to be aired. Simple as that. One might note the "Fairness Doctrine" only applied to public airwaves regulated by the FCC. That would be the public airwaves belonging to liberals as well as conservatives.

Some people seem to be very selective in how they apply the word FREE.

Oddly enough if you go to the ACLU website (the institution that is probably the most hated by conservatives) you will find lots of statements by the liberal, socialist, free-loader, “Progressive,” elements that SUPPORTS individual freedom or liberty for all. They just don't always support the selective parts of freedom that Elvis believes in.

Some people seem to be very selective in how they apply the word FREE.

tatupu70 said:

That’s what I figured. Conservatives don’t want to learn anything new. They just want to listen (AM radio) and read stuff that confirms their worldview…. That’s kind of how my 2 year old operates…

then:

As you may have noticed from the health care debate, Democrats are quite a diverse group with many differing views. Painting them all with the same brush is just small minded.

Somehow it is alright to paint conservatives all with the same brush. But doing so to democrats is just small mind.

tatupu70 says

That’s what I figured. Conservatives don’t want to learn anything new. They just want to listen (AM radio) and read stuff that confirms their worldview…. That’s kind of how my 2 year old operates…

Ever think maybe your two year old is on to something? Nah. Just go back to your koolade.

Nomograph, thanks for showing us what I was trying to say to "elvis" in plain English.

Ever think maybe your two year old is on to something? Nah. Just go back to your koolade.

We were all born highly intuitive. But we unlearned all such abilities and started demanding "scientific" data and statistics.

I'm mentally challenged says

You agree that your critical thinking skills are at the level of a two year old and that’s fine with you?

When the two year old is right and his wacked out liberal daddy is wrong yes. FOR SURE YES.

Here's a quote from Tatupu: "painting them all with the same brush is just small minded." And from Nomograph: "people like AdHominem, elvis, AND THEIR KIND..." (painting them all with the same brush).

Conclusion? Nomo, despite his lavish and rich retoric, is just small minded.

Here's a quote from Tatupu: "painting them all with the same brush is just small minded." And from Nomograph: "people like AdHominem, elvis, AND THEIR KIND..." (painting them all with the same brush).

Conclusion? Nomo, despite his lavish and rich retoric, is just small minded.

Intuition was born with the soul. Life experiences only made it weaker.

I do not expect someone who worships Scientism to understand.

Nomograph says

My observation is that,... inability to compete successfully for limited resources such as admittance to good schools, high-paying jobs, desirable spouses, etc. For example, consider the blue collar worker who barely finished high school and lives in the Bay Area. He or she may look around at all the successful, highly educated, well-paid, and well-married people

Your observation and 10 cents will buy you a dixie cup full of koolade.

Oh, and I think it is funny that anyone who doesn't drink the koolade is now a poor down trodden blue collar worker with no spouse, or at least an "undesirable" wife or husband (undesirable to you I would assume). That doesn't sound the least bit elitest does it? We probably cling to guns an religion too right? (rather than clinging to obama, socialized medicine and your supply of koolade). Painting with a very broad brush there smart guy. NO GENERALIZATIONS OR PROFILING THERE. Funny how with you and many others here when push comes to shove and your ideas have proven themselves wrong again and again you begin to attack those who disagree with you. I am all you have left, Ad Hominem. And Ad Hominem you can do well. So you have that going for you, which is nice. But just because your head comes to a point, please don't think you are sharp.

For example, consider the blue collar worker who barely finished high school and lives in the Bay Area. He or she may look around at all the successful, highly educated, well-paid, and well-married people, and out of anger and jealousy label them as “liberal elitists” or something similar.

And liberals look up and see all the "rich" people... out of anger and jealously they label them as evil profiteer.

Many of them are just full of themselves. They believe blue-collar workers "should get more education" and "work harder," yet they think rich people have "unearned" income.

The thing is that if you have a well-paid job, you are not making enough money.

Remember, education will only make you a good employee. Success requires out-of-the-box thinking. Fancy boxes do not help much.

What is being well-married? Can you provide "statistics" showing that liberals are less prone to divorces?

AdHominem says

Nomograph says

My observation is that,… inability to compete successfully for limited resources such as admittance to good schools, high-paying jobs, desirable spouses, etc. For example, consider the blue collar worker who barely finished high school and lives in the Bay Area. He or she may look around at all the successful, highly educated, well-paid, and well-married people

Your observation and 10 cents will buy you a dixie cup full of koolade.
Oh, and I think it is funny that anyone who doesn’t drink the koolade is now a poor down trodden blue collar worker with no spouse, or at least an “undesirable” wife or husband (undesirable to you I would assume). That doesn’t sound the least bit elitest does it? We probably cling to guns an religion too right? (rather than clinging to obama, socialized medicine and your supply of koolade). Painting with a very broad brush there smart guy. NO GENERALIZATIONS OR PROFILING THERE. Funny how with you and many others here when push comes to shove and your ideas have proven themselves wrong again and again you begin to attack those who disagree with you. I am all you have left, Ad Hominem. And Ad Hominem you can do well. So you have that going for you, which is nice. But just because your head comes to a point, please don’t think you are sharp.

Nomo has consistently shown himself to have an intellectual Napoleonic complex.

He accuses anyone arguing against the vanilla liberal way of thinking as being some bad conservative stereotype. He truly believes that anyone that doesn't agree with him is a brainwashed AM talk radio junkie. His other go-to criticism is to accuse someone of having a victim mentality, blame this mentality on the "conservative" mindset, all under the guise of trying to give advice.

In the old forum, he used the phrase "AM talk radio" in a full 30% of his posts. He seems like an average to moderately intelligent dude with a good education, trying desperately (and failing) to be seen as a top notch intellectual. I think I just threw up in my mouth.

On the plus side, he is sometimes kinda funny.

Nomo, take this as constructive criticism. Your intellectual arrogance is your heroic flaw.

This is primarily borne from intellectual frustration and an inability to understand the actual issues at hand.

Intellectual frustration, a form of conscious Incompetence, beats intellectual masturbation, the lethal combination of unconscious incompetence and SMUG.

Nomograph says

AM talk radio ideology that allows people to blame their problems on other people.

Who then is to blame for our problems. NOMO? health care? War? national debt. No one to blame huh? It is our damn fault I guess. I spent everybodys money, drove up prices of health care to the breaking point and started the war on terror. WHoops! My bad.

By the way, the last time I listened to AM radio was 1997.

Nomograph says

This is primarily borne from intellectual frustration and an inability to understand the actual issues at hand.

Thanks doc have you got a pill for that or do you just recommend the koolade?Nomograph says

his is when CBO trader steps in. He sees himself as a defender of the weak-minded, and attempts to beat back the perceived intellectual bully. Unfortunately, he is saddled with the same faulted ideological mindset as those he tries to defend, and in the end he becomes equally frustrated as his charges.

Thanks CBO for defending the "weak minded."

Nomo you have a rapist wit.

Since my response to Nomo is in "moderation" why don't we conduct a quick poll of the accused, shall we?

AdHominem, elvis, Honest Abe, and Peter P...please openly and honestly admit to the forum how often you listen to AM talk radio. While we're at it, please also admit how often you watch (and agree with) fox news.

AdHominem says

By the way, the last time I listened to AM radio was 1997.

Ok. What about the rest of you?

Nomograph says
blockquote>

“AdHominem, elvis, Honest Abe, and Peter P simply repeat what they hear on AM talk radio. “

I personally don’t see it, but I have never listened to AM radio…except for the time I was on a road trip and needed to catch the Dallas Stars win the Stanley Cup. It would probably be more accurate to accuse them of getting their info from youtube conspiracy videos, but that is besides the point. It seems to me that you are pulling out your liberal version of the “AM talk radio staple” by accusing others of being AM talk radio junkies rather than defend the actions of the democrats.

“When confronted with this fact, their only recourse is to another AM talk radio staple, which is to accuse everyone of “hating America” and “destroying freedom.” “

You are doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING when you accuse someone of being an “AM talk radio junkie” for being an advocate of free market capitalism.

“This is when CBO trader steps in. He sees himself as a defender of the weak-minded, and attempts to beat back the perceived intellectual bully.”

I am a partner in a trading company, and thus have worked with a lot of quants, techies, and traders. All three groups are generally quite intelligent. I have noticed that MANY intelligent people have a chronic problem of not knowing what they don’t know. It’s what I call negative IQ. This problem is inescapable in the business world. Mostly this problem plagues individuals that base their identity on their intelligence (most “nerds“, and quasi-intellectuals are great examples). Someone that is good at financial engineering might falsely assume that he is an expert at economics, for instance. Like I said, this seems to be your heroic flaw.

I find your “AM talk radio” criticism of others to be unwarranted, while at the same time horribly hypocritical in that you are showing THE EXACT SAME TENDENCIES THAT YOU CRITICIZE. From a person that is obviously educated, frankly, I expect better. That is why I call you out. If I thought you were an OTS style jerk/idiot I would say nothing.

In the end, this thought process is downright dangerous. If the "conservatives" (whatever that means) had the political self-awareness allowing them to see through the "free-market" lies of reagan and all the other neocons, the republicans would never have been able to rape and pillage for 25 years. This time around, the democratic supporters are the enablers of the raping and pillaging. Take note that the vast majority of conservatives, DO NOT SUPPORT THE REPUBLICANS outright, but instead call themselves independants. However the vast majority of "liberals" still have faith in the democratic party. And therein lies my issue. THE DEMOCRATS ARE JUST AS HORRIBLE AS THE REPUBLICANS. The only difference is that they are early in their power cycle and thus, the "liberals" of america still blindly support them. I truly hope it doesn't take 30 years of theft and lies for the liberals to come to their senses.

“Unfortunately, he is saddled with the same faulted ideological mindset as those he tries to defend, and in the end he becomes equally frustrated as his charges.”

Which ideology do you speak of exactly?…and when have I ever expressed frustration in this forum? To be clear: I am most closely aligned with the libertarians. I feel that both Republicans and Democrats are horrible for our country--and besides a few social issues are basically identical. I find it absurd for a democratic supporter to accuse the republicans of using misinformation, of being corporate puppets, or of being self interested A-holes, as the democrats ARE ALL OF THESE THINGS. I find it equally absurd that the republican supporters accuse the democrats of being fiscally irresponsible (particularly in regards to health care when the republitards passed a multi trillion dollar free-drugs-for-the-elderly bill, for the sole purpose of buying senior citizens’ votes in FL), or of lacking family values when they get off on bombing brown people the world over.

Furthermore, the libertarian/Austrian economists, using Mises’ business cycle theory, are THE ONLY group to accurately predict this economic mess. How exactly is my mindset “faulted”?

**CBOEtrader bows and walks away...**

AdHominem, elvis, Honest Abe, and Peter P…please openly and honestly admit to the forum how often you listen to AM talk radio. While we’re at it, please also admit how often you watch (and agree with) fox news.

I listen to AM 740, which is mostly traffic and news. I occasionally listen to Rush on Internet Radio mostly for entertainment. My TV is only hooked up to DVD and Netflix streaming. I do not watch broadcast or cable TV.

Rush is amazing because he was able to afford a Gulfstream G550 by talking on the radio. That is an example of what America can provide.

Someone said that the only difference between the Republicans and the Democrats is the mascot.

However, the Republicans did not choose an Ass. ;-)