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Patrick says

I've started reading about Greek and Roman Stoicism

@Patrick

Tell me what books you've read, and what you suggest. I think this philosophy may suit me well.

@richwicks You can see most books I've read in the last few years here:

https://patrick.net/post/1339878/2021-06-28-reading-paper-books

So far I don't know much about Stoicism, but it's very promising. Nothing supernatural to believe, just a philosophy for how to be happy by controlling your emotions and acting virtuously.

I went to a Stoic book club at the local used book store. I found out about it here:

https://www.feldmansbooks.net/events

Look for the 3rd meeting:

Stoic Book Club #3
"The Discourses of Epictetus." Join us for a discussion of this classic of Greek philosophy. The Discourses of Epictetus are a series of informal lectures by the Stoic philosopher Epictetus written down by his pupil Arrian around 108 AD. Four books out of an original eight are still extant. The philosophy of Epictetus is intensely practical. He directs his students to focus attention on their opinions, anxieties, passions, and desires, so that "they may never fail to get what they desire, nor fall into what they avoid."

Maybe you want to come to that.

The classics are more worth reading than most recent writers. I have read Marcus Aurelius but it has been a while. Never read much the others, except some loose sentences. I like the medieval mystics, read Rumi, and several others. St John of the Cross, Theresa of Avila. Also read some Inayat Khan, Tagore, and absolutely love the Tao Te Ching. That gets read a lot more than the bible (which has not been opened in a very long time but do not tell my christian friends LOL)

Ingrid says

I have read Marcus Aurelius but it has been a while.

Yes, me too. I forgot that Marcus was a Stoic as well. I really liked his "Meditations" though parts of it were hard to follow.

Cognitive behavioral therapy is a lot like stoicism. First, you learn to perceive what sets you off. Then you practice pausing to think about what you're experiencing as opposed to immediately reacting. At the end of it, you're able to perceive, interpret, and then act, as opposed to perceive/react.

CBT is like anything else. If you find someone competent or good at the craft, it's really good. Otherwise, it's more harmful than good.

Yes, I just read that CBT is like Stoicism. Basically, just think about and choose your reaction.

Interesting read on MA and meaning for today.
https://www.city-journal.org/article/a-manual-for-adversity

I'm sorry Patrick, I've been reading some of the letters but I'm very busy and have gotten lazy in these endeavors. But I figured I'd share the GPT4 analysis of this wrt Libertarian thinking and got this:

The "Moral Letters to Lucilius" by Seneca, a Stoic philosopher, offer insights that can be particularly resonant with libertarian perspectives. Libertarians, who champion individual liberty, minimal state intervention, and personal responsibility, may find several of Seneca's points especially compelling:

Self-Reliance and Individual Responsibility: Seneca emphasizes the importance of self-control, personal ethics, and the development of one's character through reason. He advocates for individuals to take responsibility for their own lives, a core tenet of libertarian thought.

Critique of Excessive Government and Wealth: While not against wealth per se, Seneca criticizes the blind pursuit of riches and power, suggesting a life of virtue and simplicity is more desirable. Libertarians might appreciate his skepticism towards excessive government and the accumulation of wealth for its own sake, seeing it as a critique of state overreach and materialism.

Freedom from External Control: Seneca discusses the importance of mental freedom and autonomy, arguing that true freedom comes from within and is not dependent on external circumstances. This idea resonates with the libertarian emphasis on personal freedom and resistance to coercion.

Natural Law and Universal Reason: Seneca's Stoicism posits a universal law governed by reason, which aligns with some libertarian views on natural rights and the rational nature of human beings. The idea that moral principles are accessible through reason can support libertarian arguments for individual rights and justice.

Peaceful Living and Non-aggression: Seneca advises against causing harm to others and promotes living in harmony. This principle is akin to the libertarian non-aggression principle, which opposes the initiation of force against others.

Importance of Liberty for Personal Growth: Seneca's letters suggest that personal growth and enlightenment are achieved through the exercise of one's rational faculties, which requires the freedom to think, act, and speak without undue restraint. Libertarians would likely see this as an argument for the protection of individual liberties as essential for human development.

While Seneca's Stoicism and libertarianism are not perfectly aligned—given the Stoic emphasis on virtue ethics and the acceptance of one's place in the world—the themes of individual autonomy, critique of excess, and the importance of reason and personal ethics resonate with libertarian ideals of freedom, responsibility, and minimal state intervention.

@ThatGuy That summary sounds about right to me.

@richwicks

The Stoic book club is meeting again tonight at Feldman's books in Menlo Park at 6pm.

They're going to talk about Epictetus, but you don't have to have read anything to join.

Stoa of Attalos in Athens, rebuilt authentically (from marble) in the 1950s

Patrick says

richwicks

The Stoic book club is meeting again tonight at Feldman's books in Menlo Park at 6pm.

They're going to talk about Epictetus, but you don't have to have read anything to join.

I'll do some reading this weekend. I can read a couple of books per week. I can get any book.

We run away from pain. Seeking and running towards uncomfortable is a good way of building one's own strength. Like that image of with the lady and the crow.

Stoicism blurs the line between suppressing much needed mental reaction and stimuli, and not letting life stress you out.

On one hand pent up stress can be fatal to you in the long run, not letting shit bother you and rolling with the punches can give you years of life.
Also you're meddling with your fight or flight responses that we have evolved to keep us somewhat safe. apathetic stoics probably don't live as long as curious worry warts.

I think the main goal of Stoicism is peace of mind through wisdom and virtue. If you know how things really are and you do the right thing as much as possible, much of life's trouble evaporates.

I would love to go through life with Buster Keaton's facial expression. He remained stoic no matter how much things went to hell around him.
Not to say he was emotionless. He expressed his situational awareness through body language, while never cracking a smile, grimacing, or exclamation.