patrick.net

I don't know why you bring up special situations such as having to chose between killing an old man or a child, or of governments engaging in war and war crimes.

Fundamental rights are actually prohibitions:
- right to live - do not kill
- right to property - do not steal
- right to free speech - do not make laws that curtail speech
- right to bear arms - do not interfere with the manufacture and possession of weapons

If it is forbidden to kill a 12 year old on account that he is a human being, why not forbid the killing of a fetus on account that it is a human being?

yawaraf says

I don't know why you bring up special situations such as having to chose between killing an old man or a child, or of governments engaging in war and war crimes.

I can tell you.

If it's between you and a 5 year old kid being killed, which would you pick?

Me, without even hesitation. Would you rather die than a 5 year old kid? There's no question with me. I would never kill a child to survive.

yawaraf says

If it is forbidden to kill a 12 year old on account that he is a human being, why not forbid the killing of a fetus on account that it is a human being?

Because the question is, is it human?

I oppose abortion, I think contraception is VASTLY preferable, but failing that - who would abort their child? Maybe they shouldn't have kids, they'll be like them. You oppose them, we know for certainty that children adopt the beliefs and attitudes of their parents, you want to reduce abortion - don't you?

There's a line between a fertilized egg and a baby, I can't pretend I can judge where it's ethical of even if it is ethical ever. But if you're going to do it, do it as soon as possible. It really should be safe, legal, and rare, and preferably, as early as possible.

I know women that had a kid at 15, she (and him) didn't just fuck up their lives, they fucked up their kid as well. Adoption would have been better, but we have the propaganda box telling them that they are a stunningly brave and powerful woman and a government that forces the man involved to pay child support for 18 years. It's just poverty for everybody and both adults hated it, that poor kid. She fucked over the guy that married her. Ruined his life.

I have two adopted people in my family. I don't think they should have been terminated, after all I exist as a result - but I will not oppose it. If it was available at that time, I would have never known.

I oppose a non-nuclear family, and what a strange name that is. NUCLEAR family. Like it's space age or something - as if it's a new concept as a result of modernity, it's been around for thousands of years.

richwicks says

Maybe they shouldn't have kids, they'll be like them. You oppose them, we know for certainty that children adopt the beliefs and attitudes of their parents, you want to reduce abortion - don't you?

Maybe they should have kids? Ever think of that? Maybe just that one changes them as a woman or guy? Maybe they don't get 6 other abortions? Have a kid yourself? Or take one in? Stop talking out your ass on a topic you literally know nothing about. Zilch. Nada.

You talk about who you know. YOU haven't experienced it. I hang out daily with a couple where the wife had a kid at 15. I have two kids. I fucking know nothing about her experience even though she's a good friend. The kid is 20 and doing well instead of dead. He wouldn't exist by your logic. Oh and she lost a kid to a bacterial infection at 3 years old. I'm sure you know about how that feels too....

I hate this topic, but your take on it is so far off it's not even funny. As I've said, until you have a kid, I really don't respect anyone's opinion on the topic. Shut your mouth. I know a lot of people that did a lot of things, doesn't mean I've experienced it. It's just information. You got information and have no clue.

Patrick says

Yes. So many woman voters see unrstricted abortion as the only issue. This is why Biden keeps taking about preserving abortion rights and saboteur Lindsay Graham keeps proclaiming a national abortion ban.