patrick.net

I keep hearing powerful people root for India to counterbalance asshoe.

indc says

That is historically wrong. India started having famines after the british came to India.

Your link says this: One of the earliest treatises on famine relief goes back more than 2000 years.
I don't think British were in India 2000 years ago

indc says

Malaysian-Indians are all transplants because of british rule. What native culture will they have in malaysia? Once you move people they will not have any affinity to their culture.

Ok, what about the Malay-Malaysians, as oppose to the Indian or Chinese ones? How come they don't say that their civilization was wiped out by the British? How come the Bahrain-Bahrainians (I guess you can say an Arab-Persian ethnic mix) also seem to be doing well in a relatively freer Arab nation than most of their neighbors, esp the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, run by the Sharia death squad? These are the former British colonies which flank India on both sides.

And to the a lesser extent but in a similar vein, Egypt, Kenya, and Nigeria?

In 1956, Egypt took back the Suez Canal and as a result, aside from Hong Kong, most British colonies achieved independence in the proceeding decade & half because for the most part, they were spent and done. Bahrain was the last major country to leave and that was in '72.

You see, the rest of the former British Empire has moved on. You on the other hand, have to accept that the Nehru line, yes, Nehru-Indira, made it so your country never truly achieved independence til 1991. And thus, while the world sees the date 1947, in reality, that was simply the Mountbatten to Nehru hand off.

India had lost out on a period of time where other countries rediscovered their prior identities and decided, not to simply blame Britain for their internal issues. Today, those are the problems of Nigerians, Bahrainians, Malaysians, etc.

indc says

It is the powers to be that dont want India reach its full potential.

If anything is holding India down, it is the Indians. The collective West probably looks at India somewhat positively, especially if compared to Middle East and China.

rd6B says

indc says

It is the powers to be that dont want India reach its full potential.

If anything is holding India down, it is the Indians. The collective West probably looks at India somewhat positively, especially if compared to Middle East and China.

If I recall, corporate America throughout the 90s and 00s, threw tons of cash at South India to build its own Silicon Valley. What so-called reigning Global Empire does that? That's like ancient Rome, throwing ships full of gold, along with aqueduct and military tech, so that the Egyptians would send Cleopatra packing without even having to send in a garrison. I don't think Augustus would have been so generous.

How come it hasn't become the world's Silicon Valley? There should be software houses from Manipur, to Kashmir, to Punjab, to Maharashtra, and Kerala making it the world's greatest producer of not only software but all services around information processing. There shouldn't even be an American Silicon Valley anymore given India's population size.

Sanskrit, script of the Vedas, was a European language. Tocharian, the language of red-haired, European-descended mummies in western China (Tarim Basin), also used Sanskrit script.

Although controversial, perhaps Scythian expansion into NW India and Pakistan led to development of Vedic works.

By contrast, the main contribution of Dravidians to European culture seems to be the Romani (aka, gypsies, a group of Indian descent).

You're welcome. The plagiarism is Indian, as it is today with the widespread adoption of western science and literature norms.

goofus says

Scythian expansion into NW India and Pakistan

Both Scythians and Samaritans was among the Steppic unassimilated frontiers Persians, kinda like the Cossacks were for Imperial Russia but in reverse here in terms of geography.

There were various Scythian groups, including Finno-ugrics, Slavs, and west Siberians along with the Iranians. It's worth noting that Iranians, pre-Islamic invasion, were quite a different people.

Present-day Persians, especially those who fled during the Revolution, downplay the Arab influence (though it's about 50% on average of their genome).

indc says

India will do it once they realize the knowledge they had. Right now they have 2 enemies on their border so have to spend major part of their GDP on defense. And also the west doesn't impose extra taxes like royalties on using their own knowledge and carbon tax.

West Germany was bombed to smithereens and didn't have pepper, cinnamon, cotton, opium, or tea. AND was faced with a massive superpower army at it's border.

They did just fine and dandy.

Japan and South Korea were also devastated by war. China had both a Japanese invasion AND a Civil war before, during, and after that.

India's problem is Corruption.

Evidence: Indian Middle Class becomes filthy rich anywhere in the world, except India. I believe Indians are in the top 3 richest ethnic groups in the USA.

I do support Modi and the BJP, but silly ultranationalism is just silly.

goofus says

Present-day Persians

The thing is that really, only Iranians (with present day border) call themselves Persians. In reality, the areas just on the border of the Arabic Caliphate douchebag's empire, which were a part of Imperial Russia, have Persians who look a lot more like the original ones from prior Islamic times.



The above pretty much, passes for Slavic Russian easily.

And in terms of present day Russia, itself, here's Ossetia, an Orthodox Christian majority Persian subnationality within Russian ...



Again, more 'White' people.

Look, I don't want to be too much of a jerk but here's my conclusion.

Bahrain achieved independence in '72 and that was the last major British Colony and thus, earmarks the end of the what was once, a massive overseas empire spanning every time zone.

India, however, didn't achieve the above "level" until '91, with the death of Rajiv Gandhi (Indira's son, not related to the Mahatma) and the end of the Nehru line.

That's two generations of not having gotten rid of the Viceroy, foreign or domestic. The year 1947 was not legitimate, making Mohandas Gandhi's work insignificant against the actual events of history.

The world went through massive changes between '47 and '91 while India was still finding its way around.

Today, it's a new century and I'm hopeful for a bright future for India but ppl like the OP need to stop using the past as some 'revenge' motive when in reality, it's buried. The British do not want to retake India and America already tried to Silicon Valley-ize the South with banal results back in the 90s and 00s.

The only enemy here is Islam because they still live in the year 700 AD.

So let's bury the sword and move into the Information Age.

goofus says

Sanskrit, script of the Vedas, was a European language. Tocharian, the language of red-haired, European-descended mummies in western China (Tarim Basin), also used Sanskrit script.

Although controversial, perhaps Scythian expansion into NW India and Pakistan led to development of Vedic works.

By contrast, the main contribution of Dravidians to European culture seems to be the Romani (aka, gypsies, a group of Indian descent).

You're welcome. The plagiarism is Indian, as it is today with the widespread adoption of western science and literature norms.

Thank you for bringing the false theory of AIT/AMT. So India got everything from outside in past 2000yrs.

@Rin, does malaysia or bahrain face such stupid theories about their culture.

goofus says

Sanskrit, script of the Vedas, was a European language.

Depends on definition...Indo-europeans spread from Caspian steppes into Europe and Indostan at about the same time, so just as well we can say that Indians are European, or Europeans are Indian. Furthermore, we can get into semantic arguments that these Indoeuropeans are not the original Europeans, as they partially displaced/assimilated/killed off original, Stone-age Europe inhabitants who were by that time mixed with Near-East farmers (the only original European language that survives from that time is Basque, and the only parts of Europe with substantial genetics from European Stone age inhabitants are near Baltic Sea).

indc says

@Rin, does malaysia or bahrain face such stupid theories about their culture.

Here's the thing, Malaysia is in direct competition with Singapore, which is seen as an inferior culture to a Chinese majority city-state country. Yes, in southeast Asia, Chinese believe that they are the smart, hard working 'white' orientals whereas Malays are seen as being more lazy.

And as for Bahrain, being you might say "in the zone" between Persia and Arabia, they see their Persian side (whatever that means in terms of modern times) as the superior culture because they're always reminded of King Abdullah's Sharia state of Saudi, right next door, which for them will always be a backwater over being a former British protectorate.

So these places also have colonial baggage, as well as feuds among ethnicities.

Unlike India, however, corporate America didn't throw 'em billions of dollars to build up a Silicon Valley around Bangalore post-Indira/Rajiv Gandhi.

I have a friend, an Indian-American, who personally threw Wipro out of his company, during the past decade, because he was pissed off at the lack of business savvy and ability to deliver without a laundry list of excuses and complaints. In the end, he told his Wipro liaison that the Indian offshoring firm ran a body shop and not one of value added services which is how a company is suppose to dominate a market space in information technology. The British Empire did not create this problem circa 2010.

rd6B says

Europeans, as they partially displaced/assimilated/killed off original,

Even those stone agers replaced an earlier pre-ice age stoney group. Mesolithic stone age had a lot of neolithic attributes. But they too often lived in caves.

indc says

Thank you for bringing the false theory of AIT/AMT. So India got everything from outside in past 2000yrs.

Almost as convincing as a politifact debunking. Try to follow along: India got its foundational Hindu texts, and written language, from westerners. Perhaps near-westerners (Iranians) and perhaps farther afield. Anything subsequent to 2000+ years ago would be post-mixing and credited to India. You began this thread claiming that Vedic agricultural methods ("organic farming") were "plagiarized" from India and brought to the west. That deserved a round laugh given the origin of Sanskrit.