ICE arrests 90 illegal immigrants in a sting operation using a fake university
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2019 Nov 28, 1:34pm 1,913 views 58 comments
by Patrick ➕follow (60) 💰tip ignore
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ice-arrests-90-illegal-immigrants-in-a-sting-operation-using-a-fake-university
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43
indc
2019 Dec 2, 8:52am
Patrick says
Student visa is non-immigrant visa. So how is that any kind of 'line" cutting.
mell saysThey were cutting lines - Not. There were not in any line to cut
What?
They are overtly attempting fraud exactly and only to skip the legal immigration process which law-abiding applicants are obeying.
If that isn't cutting in line, what is?
Student visa is non-immigrant visa. So how is that any kind of 'line" cutting.
44
Bd6r
2019 Dec 2, 9:14am
Bd6r
2019 Dec 2, 9:14am
marcus says
That's legal according to current law.
indc says
It is not line-cutting, it is just plain fraud. Note that students were in US already, probably flunked out of other school.
So does that apply to Melania or the wealthy chinese families that pay 500K to cut in line ?
That's legal according to current law.
indc says
Student visa is non-immigrant visa. So how is that any kind of 'line" cutting.
It is not line-cutting, it is just plain fraud. Note that students were in US already, probably flunked out of other school.
45
indc
2019 Dec 2, 10:23am
rd6B says
How is this fraud? Did they gain something at expense of others? What was that they gained?
Lets assume they flunked? How is that related to immigration topic. They can flunk and apply for another university, flunk again and apply to another university. As long as they are paying their fees how does it matter for topic of ICE en-traping them.
Student visa is a glorified tourist visa. One can spend longer time in US.
indc saysStudent visa is non-immigrant visa. So how is that any kind of 'line" cutting.
It is not line-cutting, it is just plain fraud. Note that students were in US already, probably flunked out of other school.
How is this fraud? Did they gain something at expense of others? What was that they gained?
Lets assume they flunked? How is that related to immigration topic. They can flunk and apply for another university, flunk again and apply to another university. As long as they are paying their fees how does it matter for topic of ICE en-traping them.
Student visa is a glorified tourist visa. One can spend longer time in US.
46
socal2
2019 Dec 2, 10:51am
indc says
It is my understanding that this university was known by the illegals as a paper mill generating fake diplomas. There were no instructors or classes.
How is this fraud? Did they gain something at expense of others? What was that they gained?
It is my understanding that this university was known by the illegals as a paper mill generating fake diplomas. There were no instructors or classes.
47
Bd6r
2019 Dec 2, 10:56am
Bd6r
2019 Dec 2, 10:56am
indc says
No it is not, you have been misled. The conditions for staying are very much different. Tourist visa does not entail performing adequately in classes.
indc says
No they can not. F visa rules specifically say that "While on your F-1 visa, you may only study at the academic institution through which the visa was granted".
Also, please see "Maintaining Valid F-1 Status" - The student is considered to be maintaining status if he or she is making normal progress toward completing a course of study.
Furthermore, this applies to flunking in one school and applying to another: (i) A student who is maintaining status may transfer to another Service approved school by following the notification procedure prescribed in paragraph (f)(8)(ii) of this section.
If you want to twist your brain, you may want to read this: https://www.ice.gov/sevis/schools/reg#2141 I have to deal with this because I teach quite few foreign students. None have even considered staying here illegally, and following rules is not that hard.
The fact that they do not always enforce everything written there does not mean that what people concoct to stay in US is legal.
Perhaps before worrying about situation in US people should worry about their own countries, and bring them to level where others actually want to stay in those countries.
Student visa is a glorified tourist visa.
No it is not, you have been misled. The conditions for staying are very much different. Tourist visa does not entail performing adequately in classes.
indc says
Lets assume they flunked? How is that related to immigration topic. They can flunk and apply for another university, flunk again and apply to another university.
No they can not. F visa rules specifically say that "While on your F-1 visa, you may only study at the academic institution through which the visa was granted".
Also, please see "Maintaining Valid F-1 Status" - The student is considered to be maintaining status if he or she is making normal progress toward completing a course of study.
Furthermore, this applies to flunking in one school and applying to another: (i) A student who is maintaining status may transfer to another Service approved school by following the notification procedure prescribed in paragraph (f)(8)(ii) of this section.
If you want to twist your brain, you may want to read this: https://www.ice.gov/sevis/schools/reg#2141 I have to deal with this because I teach quite few foreign students. None have even considered staying here illegally, and following rules is not that hard.
The fact that they do not always enforce everything written there does not mean that what people concoct to stay in US is legal.
Perhaps before worrying about situation in US people should worry about their own countries, and bring them to level where others actually want to stay in those countries.
48
WookieMan
2019 Dec 2, 11:03am
WookieMan
2019 Dec 2, 11:03am
rd6B says
Someone get this guy a drink! I appreciate the info and link, but this quoted line is all that was needed. Digital high five ✋! I'd love to see just ONE person counter this.
Perhaps before worrying about situation in US people should worry about their own countries, and bring them to level where others actually want to stay in those countries
Someone get this guy a drink! I appreciate the info and link, but this quoted line is all that was needed. Digital high five ✋! I'd love to see just ONE person counter this.
49
socal2
2019 Dec 2, 11:04am
rd6B says
Spreading the love of Jesus and Capitalism to the primitives has turned out to be a very expensive, thankless and risky job. We have been trying to keep South/Central America free from the Marxist rot for as long as I have been alive. And the Leftists and Democrats have been fighting against us the entire time.
I think it will be easier and smarter to spend more time securing our borders instead of trying to remake the world.
Perhaps before worrying about situation in US people should worry about their own countries, and bring them to level where others actually want to stay in those countries.
Spreading the love of Jesus and Capitalism to the primitives has turned out to be a very expensive, thankless and risky job. We have been trying to keep South/Central America free from the Marxist rot for as long as I have been alive. And the Leftists and Democrats have been fighting against us the entire time.
I think it will be easier and smarter to spend more time securing our borders instead of trying to remake the world.
50
indc
2019 Dec 2, 12:08pm
rd6B says
Even tourist visa has rules they need to follow. What I meant was you are not considered immigrants on those visas.
About moving between Univ I said "apply": When they apply the new Univ informs ICE and USCIS. How is what you pointed out different from what I said? So their status as student is switched to new Univ. It is not same as moving your kids between Univ.
Now doing legal and illegal things, how do the students in your univ know what is legal and illegal? I know because Univ specifically tell students what is Legal and Illegal to do during their orientation. Now if Farmington tells the student they can work or do what ever they want who is in fault here?
Your prejudice not wanting outsiders has nothing to do with Immigation policy of USA. You can fight to change the rules and make sure no international students come to USA. But the topic is legality of what and how ICE tried to en-trap dumb kids. It is nothing different from those nigerian prince fraud.
indc saysStudent visa is a glorified tourist visa.
No it is not, you have been misled. The conditions for staying are very much different. Tourist visa does not entail performing adequately in classes.
indc saysLets assume they flunked? How is that related to immigration topic. They can flunk and apply for another university, flunk again and apply to another university.
No they can not. F visa rules specifically say that "While on your F-1 visa, you may only study at the academic institution through which the visa was granted".
Also, please see "Maintaining Valid F-1 Status" - The student is considered to be maintaining status if he or she is making normal progress toward completing a course of study.
Furthermore, this applies to flunking in one school and applying to another: (i) A student who is ...
Even tourist visa has rules they need to follow. What I meant was you are not considered immigrants on those visas.
About moving between Univ I said "apply": When they apply the new Univ informs ICE and USCIS. How is what you pointed out different from what I said? So their status as student is switched to new Univ. It is not same as moving your kids between Univ.
Now doing legal and illegal things, how do the students in your univ know what is legal and illegal? I know because Univ specifically tell students what is Legal and Illegal to do during their orientation. Now if Farmington tells the student they can work or do what ever they want who is in fault here?
Your prejudice not wanting outsiders has nothing to do with Immigation policy of USA. You can fight to change the rules and make sure no international students come to USA. But the topic is legality of what and how ICE tried to en-trap dumb kids. It is nothing different from those nigerian prince fraud.
51
Onvacation
2019 Dec 2, 12:19pm
Onvacation
2019 Dec 2, 12:19pm
indc says
How so?
One is a foreigner trying to steal money the other is a foreigner trying to steal entry to our country.
I can see the similarities.
ICE tried to en-trap dumb kids. It is nothing different from those nigerian prince fraud.
How so?
One is a foreigner trying to steal money the other is a foreigner trying to steal entry to our country.
I can see the similarities.
52
Bd6r
2019 Dec 2, 12:43pm
Bd6r
2019 Dec 2, 12:43pm
indc says
As far as I can tell, most of these kids were in US already, meaning that they are either switching between schools or trying to game system in some other way. Otherwise they could not be arrested and would not be given an entry visa in their home country.
indc says
(a) You have no idea what I think and you are making your assumptions about this in your head. Letting really talented foreigners stay in US is of a great benefit to US, and should be encouraged. But this has to be done properly, e.i. favor younger people, no chain immigration (one competent person brings in 100 incompetent uncles who are paid for by US Social Security, etc), favor higher educated people, health testing before admission, etc. About F-visa students, most (I'd say over 60%) stay in US of A, so even if this is a non-immigrant visa, result is as for immigrant visa. And again, if these are bright and hard-working students, I am all for them staying. However, more than half are neither bright nor hard working, and the result is with a minus sign for US taxpayer.
(b) Your lack of knowledge about US immigration system has everything to do with what you are typing here.
indc says
That is a fact-free statement.
About moving between Univ I said "apply": When they apply the new Univ informs ICE and USCIS. How is what you pointed out different from what I said? So their status as student is switched to new Univ. It is not same as moving your kids between Univ.
As far as I can tell, most of these kids were in US already, meaning that they are either switching between schools or trying to game system in some other way. Otherwise they could not be arrested and would not be given an entry visa in their home country.
indc says
Your prejudice not wanting outsiders has nothing to do with Immigation policy of USA.
(a) You have no idea what I think and you are making your assumptions about this in your head. Letting really talented foreigners stay in US is of a great benefit to US, and should be encouraged. But this has to be done properly, e.i. favor younger people, no chain immigration (one competent person brings in 100 incompetent uncles who are paid for by US Social Security, etc), favor higher educated people, health testing before admission, etc. About F-visa students, most (I'd say over 60%) stay in US of A, so even if this is a non-immigrant visa, result is as for immigrant visa. And again, if these are bright and hard-working students, I am all for them staying. However, more than half are neither bright nor hard working, and the result is with a minus sign for US taxpayer.
(b) Your lack of knowledge about US immigration system has everything to do with what you are typing here.
indc says
It is nothing different from those nigerian prince fraud.
That is a fact-free statement.
53
Bd6r
2019 Dec 2, 12:46pm
Bd6r
2019 Dec 2, 12:46pm
indc says
Read the laws. I am supposed to know if something I do is legal or illegal as well.
Admittedly, the US immigration/visa system is royally fucked up because of complex rules, mainly put in place to have exemptions for special interests. But ultimately it is up to you to know if what you are doing is legal or illegal.
Now doing legal and illegal things, how do the students in your univ know what is legal and illegal?
Read the laws. I am supposed to know if something I do is legal or illegal as well.
Admittedly, the US immigration/visa system is royally fucked up because of complex rules, mainly put in place to have exemptions for special interests. But ultimately it is up to you to know if what you are doing is legal or illegal.
54
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Dec 2, 2:31pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Dec 2, 2:31pm
indc says
Are India's laws as kindly and open as the USA's? Nope.
We have rules, they must be followed.
What happened is no different than criminals trying to buy cocaine from undercover cops.
Your prejudice not wanting outsiders has nothing to do with Immigation policy of USA. You can fight to change the rules and make sure no international students come to USA. But the topic is legality of what and how ICE tried to en-trap dumb kids. It is nothing different from those nigerian prince fraud.
Are India's laws as kindly and open as the USA's? Nope.
We have rules, they must be followed.
What happened is no different than criminals trying to buy cocaine from undercover cops.
55
mell
2019 Dec 2, 2:39pm
NoCoupForYou says
If they want to better the world, take care of a veteran citizen or a poor family of four, invite them to their homes, give them allowances, go to Africa and build a missionary and schools/hospitals. None of the illegals busted here need any of that help, there's plenty of opportunity left for them outside of the US. Now whether they will find a country as gracious as the US wrt immigration is another question. But this shilling for illegals while autochthon American homicides are at all time highs and the main reason for the declining avg. life expectancy is just beyond ridiculous.
indc saysYour prejudice not wanting outsiders has nothing to do with Immigation policy of USA. You can fight to change the rules and make sure no international students come to USA. But the topic is legality of what and how ICE tried to en-trap dumb kids. It is nothing different from those nigerian prince fraud.
Are India's laws as kindly and open as the USA's? Nope.
We have rules, they must be followed.
What happened is no different than criminals trying to buy cocaine from undercover cops.
If they want to better the world, take care of a veteran citizen or a poor family of four, invite them to their homes, give them allowances, go to Africa and build a missionary and schools/hospitals. None of the illegals busted here need any of that help, there's plenty of opportunity left for them outside of the US. Now whether they will find a country as gracious as the US wrt immigration is another question. But this shilling for illegals while autochthon American homicides are at all time highs and the main reason for the declining avg. life expectancy is just beyond ridiculous.
56
indc
2019 Dec 2, 5:44pm
Onvacation says
I guess there is no treatment for dumbness. I explained how student visa or tourist visa doesn't give you any leg-up in regards to immigration. And you keep repeating the lie just like goebbels.
I guess its in your genes.
indc saysICE tried to en-trap dumb kids. It is nothing different from those nigerian prince fraud.
How so?
One is a foreigner trying to steal money the other is a foreigner trying to steal entry to our country.
I can see the similarities.
I guess there is no treatment for dumbness. I explained how student visa or tourist visa doesn't give you any leg-up in regards to immigration. And you keep repeating the lie just like goebbels.
I guess its in your genes.
57
indc
2019 Dec 2, 5:51pm
rd6B says
I agree to your point here. You make system complex and your own citizens will question the system. I dont deny what the students did is illegal. But that guidance from Univ is wrong which you do not want to acknowledge.
You want intelligent students here not dumb student again that is your perspective. Go fight about those rules. Here ICE made a mistake.
You cannot accept that ICE can make a mistake that is the reason you want to fight about it.
indc saysNow doing legal and illegal things, how do the students in your univ know what is legal and illegal?
Read the laws. I am supposed to know if something I do is legal or illegal as well.
Admittedly, the US immigration/visa system is royally fucked up because of complex rules, mainly put in place to have exemptions for special interests. But ultimately it is up to you to know if what you are doing is legal or illegal.
I agree to your point here. You make system complex and your own citizens will question the system. I dont deny what the students did is illegal. But that guidance from Univ is wrong which you do not want to acknowledge.
You want intelligent students here not dumb student again that is your perspective. Go fight about those rules. Here ICE made a mistake.
You cannot accept that ICE can make a mistake that is the reason you want to fight about it.
58
indc
2019 Dec 2, 5:56pm
NoCoupForYou says
Why do you want to open your mouth when you dont know facts. USA had 100's of agents in India at height of cold war. There are 30 million immigrant from bangladesh and myanmar in India. Any ahole can come to India and live illegally without much problems. I am against open borders too. But that does not mean that you give Visa to dumb kids once here you take their money and kick them out.
indc saysYour prejudice not wanting outsiders has nothing to do with Immigation policy of USA. You can fight to change the rules and make sure no international students come to USA. But the topic is legality of what and how ICE tried to en-trap dumb kids. It is nothing different from those nigerian prince fraud.
Are India's laws as kindly and open as the USA's? Nope.
We have rules, they must be followed.
What happened is no different than criminals trying to buy cocaine from undercover cops.
Why do you want to open your mouth when you dont know facts. USA had 100's of agents in India at height of cold war. There are 30 million immigrant from bangladesh and myanmar in India. Any ahole can come to India and live illegally without much problems. I am against open borders too. But that does not mean that you give Visa to dumb kids once here you take their money and kick them out.
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