patrick.net

Vicente says

It was under the thumb of Obamacare in a state that has made every effort to resist implementing it?

Are you saying "No Obamacare" then "No OSHA and CDC for YOU!"?

The Liberals are like the cable company they come with 100 different ways to charge or deny taxpayers for the same service.

Perhaps we should call in the UN and let them occupy us while Washington sorts out the proper direct of the finger pointing.

Ask the Kids to leave the room and call in the adults.

Yes Vincent go to Washington and shut down the Government Obama's in another jam he can't monologue his way out of.

Call it Crazy says

It will not spread here, go ask Rew, he'll tell you!

Ebola is not very contagious but it is highly infectious. Health care workers are and always have been the most susceptible to further transmissions, as has been seen in every other outbreak.

The picture posted at the top of this thread is absolutely NOT Ebola:
http://virologydownunder.blogspot.com/2014/08/fake-ebola-virus-disease-images.html

There may be small localized secondary transmissions in the US for something as infectious as Ebola, but there are very low odds it has a massive outbreak here. Even if it does, we have some of the world leading experts on the disease, some of the first experimental treatments being used in the field, and first rate healthcare which can gear up and accommodate isolation of large numbers of people.

We also have a public hyper-awareness of the disease (sigh). If there is an outbreak in a town or city, sad to say, there will be major panic, people will close their doors for about a month ... and you know what, that really will stop the rate of transmissions ... even though it is a gross over-reaction.

Horrible disease, but there is way way too much false information and drummed up horror around it.

Regardless of which president, or controlling political faction was present in the lead up to this outbreak, there would have been no greater or lesser improvements to the healthcare system to cope with Ebola. Ebola is an exotic. You don't prepare for it ... it comes ... and you deal based on what you have.

I don't think anyone is going to hop a plane from a Western first world country, to Africa, so they can be treated if they contract Ebola. What more proof do you need that you are sitting in one of the best countries in the world to deal with, and treat, and incurable exotic disease?

CaptainShuddup says

Are you saying "No Obamacare" then "No OSHA and CDC for YOU!"?

"As you know, ah, you go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time." - Donald Rumsfeld.

They didn't have proper training or equipment on hand, they did the best they could improvise. Instead of endless finger-pointing, the Fox News crews should be VENERATING the healthcare workers who undertook this dangerous job.

Here's your trophy.

Vicente says

Instead of endless finger-pointing, the Fox News crews should be VENERATING the healthcare workers who did this dangerous job

Wow.

Why doesn't Fox News support our troops?

Nah he needs a bong in his hand rather than a football.

The tinfoil lined helmet is spot on though.

thunderlips11 says

There is power in a UUUUUUnnion...

There is power in a UUUUnnion...

Without one you're just a sclub...

Made to handle infectious patients

With little more than a plastic scrub...

How can you be well read yet so ignorant of economics?

Vicente says

"As you know, ah, you go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time." - Donald Rumsfeld.

They didn't have proper training or equipment on hand, they did the best they could improvise. Instead of endless finger-pointing, the Fox News crews should be VENERATING the healthcare workers who undertook this dangerous job.

Correct Vincent, but you do realize a lot of credibility moments were squandered by the passive aggressive response(or lack there of) when it first came to light. It's just hard to even fathom that while the Left was chastising all of the Idiots for fearmongering a virtually harmless pathogen, Obama secretly had a crack pot team on it, flying them out at that exact moment.

TO everyone else the response seemed like a Tim Conway Taxi driver skit on the Carol Burnett show at best.

Where Tim Conway plays the Taxi driver . Basically a customer jumps in the back of the taxi and frantically says his destination. Tim turns the meter on, looks in the rear view mirror to comb his hair, adjusts the mirror back to see rear view traffic, adjusts the side view mirror and notices his hat isn't on, so he then grabs his Old Timey Serviceman hat, pause then adjust the brim of him hat, then again to straighten the hat, then he adjusts the mirror to see for driving. It just seemed the passenger was never going to get to where he was going with that guy driving.

Notice how both infections occurred when the patient was highly symptomatic, yet none (so far) are known among those on the plane with the original victim, nor in the apartment he shared, even though he had a fever for at least 3 days during that time.

It seems the experts may be correct: the likelihood of infection varies markedly with how far gone the patient is.

Call it Crazy says

Dallas nurses cite sloppy conditions in Ebola care

I have to say I'm impressed by the extraordinary incompetence of the CDC.

We were told Ebola had no chance of propagating in the west.

I thought a case of Ebola would be attended by CDC swat teams wearing heavy protection gears....

I was expecting them to be heavy handed and keep everyone involved isolated for 3 weeks - just to make sure they destroy quickly any chance of propagation.

Instead what do we see: flimsy protections, no clear methods or training, 2 nurses contaminated while treating a single patient, no follow up, contaminated nurses taking planes.

This is a joke. If that is how it goes we will soon have 1000 deads every day in the US.

The problem right now is, there's no place that people would have confidence in going to. If they feared that they might have come in contact with someone at certain locations at certain time. Where people could be isolated and screened. Our Hospitals should be the last place Ebola suspects show up at.
I've seen enough Movies in my time, and have seen enough non issue News events since questionable Anthrax news event that happened post 911. To know that we can erect whole Bubble Cities in hours when it comes to dealing with biological threats. The government already displayed that we are capable, when they wanted to control our fears. But now that the situation calls for it...

"Well Oh, Ah, Uh, we're just ill equipped to deal with anything like this!"

Heraclitusstudent says

I was expecting them to be heavy handed and keep everyone involved isolated for 3 weeks - just to make sure they destroy quickly any chance of propagation.

Instead what do we see: flimsy protections, no clear methods or training, 2 nurses contaminated while treating a single patient, no follow up, contaminated nurses taking planes.

This is a joke. If that is how it goes we will soon have 1000 deads every day in the US.

This sounds like the work of Corporate America. Only Corporate America would take an MBA-ologist approach to a deadly disease in a major metropolitan area.

Heraclitusstudent says

Instead what do we see: flimsy protections, no clear methods or training, 2 nurses contaminated while treating a single patient, no follow up, contaminated nurses taking planes.

The CDC bit it, and that hospital bit it multiple ways: send the guy home at first, then poor protective measures when he was recognized and isolated.

Texas has low regulations, a massive tort-reform law preventing settlements above $250K, and negligible state taxes.

Why didn't the hospital respond efficiently.

nobody claimed it was.
assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

Rew says

The picture posted at the top of this thread is absolutely NOT Ebola:

http://virologydownunder.blogspot.com/2014/08/fake-ebola-virus-disease-images.html

So I thank obamacare for protecting an additional 12 million people from ebola, and you call it a fanciful idiotic claim?
what? is ebola not covered under obamacare after all the massive premium increases??

Vicente says

It was under the thumb of Obamacare in a state that has made every effort to resist implementing it?

In Texas, I would call that UNBELIEVABLE. Meaning here, not surprise/shock, but that it's a fanciful claim that only an idiot would believe.

How long has this recent episode been raging in africa?
and you can't fathom it hitting our shores with modern transportation in place?
so you "don't prepare for it"????
this is the typical laissez-faire attitude that will initiate an ELE...

Rew says

Ebola is an exotic. You don't prepare for it ... it comes ... and you deal based on what you have

WaterGoat says

Why didn't the hospital respond efficiently.

The hospital is just random nurses and doctors with no experience in ebola and it's not their jobs to think about it before it happens.

On the other hand it is the job of the CDC. It is their jobs to have plans ready in case it happens. They had months to prepare and apparently there is absolutely no preparation.

This kind of problem tends to grow exponentially which is why it is critical to react strongly from the start. I don't see any reaction.

SoftShell says

nobody claimed it was.

assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

Rew says

The picture posted at the top of this thread is absolutely NOT Ebola:

http://virologydownunder.blogspot.com/2014/08/fake-ebola-virus-disease-images.html

So you don't have the decency to admit you google searched Ebola images, added the picture here for shock value, and instead are going to claim what ... "I'm just posting it to try and sucker and bait you."

Once again, your credibility tanks hard SoftShell.

SoftShell says

How long has this recent episode been raging in africa?

and you can't fathom it hitting our shores with modern transportation in place?

so you "don't prepare for it"????

this is the typical laissez-faire attitude that will initiate an ELE...

Rew says

Ebola is an exotic. You don't prepare for it ... it comes ... and you deal based on what you have

The point being made is you don't spend years bolstering your medical capabilities against a disease which has killed an insignificant number of people, in remote areas Africa, before 2014. To have made that a national priority would be laughable.

You study the disease for what it is, but there are far bigger medical threats, even virological ones, in contrast to Ebola ... even now.

Incubation period for Ebola can be longer than 42 days. This from the WHO website press release.

"Recent studies conducted in West Africa have demonstrated that 95% of confirmed cases have an incubation period in the range of 1 to 21 days; 98% have an incubation period that falls within the 1 to 42 day interval. WHO is therefore confident that detection of no new cases, with active surveillance in place, throughout this 42-day period means that an Ebola outbreak is indeed over."

So, 2% could incubate longer than 42 days? And 5% longer than the 21 days we've been told was Ebola fact? No wonder this virus tends to flare up later after they isolate an outbreak.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/14-october-2014/en/

Heraclitusstudent says

The hospital is just random nurses and doctors with no experience in ebola and it's not their jobs to think about it before it happens.

Ok, so someone enters the emergency room and the attending PA asks the patient, 'What do you think you've got?'

Patient: 'I was in west Africa and ppl around me were dying of this thing called Ebola'

PA:'Oh, well that's probably like Malaria or something. Here's some laramin. Please come back in a few days if you don't feel better'

Rin says

PA:'Oh, well that's probably like Malaria or something. Here's some laramin. Please come back in a few days if you don't feel better'

Thank goodness for tort reform.

I would hate to think of that poor, well-intentioned hospital having to pay out more than $250K per death. Particularly tragic would be the loss of any hospital administrators' jobs; I can think of nothing worse than totally incompetent assholes being held responsible for putting profits ahead of human lives.

Rin says

Patient: 'I was in west Africa and ppl around me were dying of this thing called Ebola'

PA:'Oh, well that's probably like Malaria or something. Here's some laramin. Please come back in a few days if you don't feel better'

Hindsight is 20/20. They were in their routine of sending sick people back home and they did something stupid. This I can understand.

What's inexcusable is to manage to contaminate 2 nurses - out of pure negligence - when you know you are treating a guy with ebola. And then worse, let these nurses travel etc... Where were the hazmat suits and bleach baths at the exit? It should have been taken care of by a CDC specially trained team, not local nurses.

WaterGoat says

I can think of nothing worse than totally incompetent assholes being held responsible for putting profits ahead of human lives.

Heraclitusstudent says

What's inexcusable is to manage to contaminate 2 nurses - out of pure negligence

Welcome to Corporate America.

Call it Crazy says

Rew says

What more proof do you need that you are sitting in one of the best countries in the world to deal with, and treat, and incurable exotic disease?

I'm sure EVERY nurse in that Dallas hospital will agree with you.

There is a difference in being ready and confidant versus being capable and able. They will get there. Our capacity to deal with this is far above West Africa's it's not even much of a comparison.

Call it Crazy says

Rew says

They will get there.

After how many that need to die?

I agree. When I was working in a pilot plant facility, I'd stopped the manager from letting ppl in, who didn't wear eye protection during the sodium hydroxide flush of the systems.

I had him put it in the mandatory protocol for even entering the place. Apparently, someone forgot to mention how caustic the agent was. And I was an entry level engineer and even the supervisor knew that such an oversight was a potential disaster/lawsuit on the horizon.

Oh please. It doesn't "jump the ocean" it hitches a ride, like all viruses. The odds were low, unless we directly took someone knowingly that was sick. Not impossible, just low.

"How many need to die?" What an emotionally loaded crap question. What's your solution or axe to grind CiC?

In number of doctors/nurses per person, infrastructure, space to isolate, and straight up infectious diseases experts ... yeah ... the US far and away exceeds West Africa.

Heraclitusstudent says

On the other hand it is the job of the CDC. It is their jobs to have plans ready in case it happens. They had months to prepare and apparently there is absolutely no preparation.

To do what? Send them some training material?

Great idea. Here's some papers in the mail, between mopping up vomit and whatever else you do, try to fit in this IMPORTANT PAPER that you have lightning-strike odds of needing.

Many many hospitals, run by many different groups. Disseminating information deeply in less than a few years is impossible.

CDC having fast-deployment field teams of their own, is something Congress should really look into funding. After they get done with their latest shutdown or sequester or whatever. So they can rob the funds from some other unlikely-seeming contingency that you can complain about later too.

Call it Crazy says

Rew says

"How many need to die?" What an emotionally loaded crap question. What's your solution or axe to grind CiC?

You make a lot of definitive statements at a time when the CDC can't find their ass with both hands...

Since you're so sure of everything, I think you should go replace Frieden as director.

Right now, the solution is a military based quarantine protocol. In other words, no civilian clinics/hospitals, esp in large cities, should be involved. The last thing we need is hospital workers infecting their friends and families, as well as other visitors to the ERs and triage centers.

When I'd heard about a potential infect-ee, heading down to Longwood Ave, to Harvard affiliated Deaconess Hospital in Boston, adjacent to the downtown in a densely populated area, I was astonished. How completely careless and thoughtless was that decision? At least earlier, she was in a south shore clinic (less population density) and going downtown was the last thing anyone would want.

Sure, the CDC can provide assistance, as in Interpol, which disseminates information but doesn't actually have a law enforcement arm. The military should pick up on this one, until ALL civilian hospitals have protocols and treatment programs in place.

Rin, stop making sense.

Here's another angle, which Vincente's post triggered in my head.

All this Homeland Security Spending, and we don't have a medical team for outbreaks?

After all the hype about weaponized anthrax or whatever?

But cops in Buffalo Breath, Wyoming have MRAPs and Darth Vader Outfits in case trouble breaks out at the annual Queen of the Cows Festival, attendance 120 people?

Where is all the money going?

As usual, the union is only interested in collecting it's cut, and not actually protecting it's members.

zzyzzx says

As usual, the union is only interested in collecting it's cut, and not actually protecting it's members.

Wow, did you even read? You came away with the exact wrong idea. The union isn't paid to represent these nurses because they are not members! They're doing it anyway to protect the nurses interests! Reading comprehension ....

Tell the Union to Kiss my Ass where's your President?

Oh that's right giving another confused "Uh-uh-uh" speech.

i knew there was something fishy about a community organizer getting elected on the first pass...

CaptainShuddup says

Look we all know George was NOT his Father.

WaterGoat says

Thank goodness for tort reform.

Spoken like someone who has been sued, as Vincent would say a glibertarian without the libertarian part.

Seconds?

Call it Crazy says

SoftShell says

i knew there was something fishy about a community organizer getting elected on the first pass...

What happened on the Second pass?

thunderlips11 says

Where is all the money going?

Don't you remember the pentagon lost it?

Seconds!