« prev   random   next »

1
2

The class war is widening on airplanes

By tovarichpeter following x   2014 Sep 18, 6:37am 22,391 views   88 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


http://www.economist.com/news/business/21618881-distance-between-back-and-front-plane-will-keep-widening-piketty-airways?fsrc=nlw|hig|18-09-2014|5356c841899249e1ccbce3f3|

Miami and Paris, after one annexed the sliver of territory they shared by reclining his seat. It was one of three such incidents within a fortnight which led to planes being diverted. Nowadays those at the cheap end of the plane barely have room to open their copies of Thomas Pikettys recent book lamenting a new age of inequality. Yet airlines think there is further scope for cramming more bodies into economy, and that passengers, for all their moans, will tolerate this in exchange for cheap fares. Meanwhile, business class keeps on getting comfier.

« First    « Previous    Comments 48 - 87 of 87    Last »

49   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 5:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

To be fair, they should charge separately for:

1. passenger weight and size
2. carry-on luggage weight and size
3. check-in luggage weight and size

Payload is a huge factor. I am surprised they are not paying more attention. Each pound of weight not carried and another pound of available payload for revenue cargo.

50   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2014 Sep 19, 5:40am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ideal Economy Domestic: At least 18" Seat Width. 17" is for Size 0 models. Some people are weightlifters and have broad shoulders, it's not just the fatties. Not everyone who is physically fit is a skinny cardio nut. Make Reclines impossible on planes on domestic flights. No constant running back and forth with the cart, there should be emergency warm water but otherwise pay for drinks - but they should be "Regular" Priced. Wifi on all flights, don't mind paying $5-10 for it, but $20+ is ridiculous esp. if the flight is only a couple of hours long. Stronger trays that can take a laptop, not everybody is a consumer watching lolcats on a tablet, some people are producers who need the keyboard and the power of a non A# chip.

Legroom not an issue, but those over 6'0 should be given priority to the extra legroom seats for a token fee. Those under 6'0" have to pay whatever the airline wants to charge. And this would be just the passengers, not their companions or family - they'll have to sit alone to get the token price. I think that's reasonable.

51   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 5:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

Ideal Economy Domestic: At least 18" Seat Width. 17" is for Size 0 models.

Virgin America's coach seats are 17.7-inch wide. It is prudent to research SeatGuru before booking a flight.

Seats should recline, but tray tables can be eliminated for domestic coach. There are no more hot meals anyway. Laptops are meant for laps. Or one can use a tablet.

I turn off wi-fi completely. Kindle time. :-)

52   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2014 Sep 19, 5:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P says

Virgin America's coach seats are 17.7-inch wide

Close enough.

Peter P says

Laptops are meant for laps.

Not at all. Ever try sitting in a chair with your feet flat on the floor at work at a laptop? And that's a regular chair, not in a cattle car chair.

Laptop is just a cute name. It's really a table top or legs-crossed top.

53   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 5:47am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

Legroom not an issue, but those over 6'0 should be given priority to the extra legroom seats for a token fee. Those under 6'0" have to pay whatever the airline wants to charge.

I am adverse to need-based pricing. Tall/fat people should pay the same premium for bigger seats.

And I am not a petite person either.

54   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 5:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

Peter P says

Virgin America's coach seats are 17.7-inch wide

Close enough.

JetBlue's E-190 regional jets have 18.25-inch wide standard seats.

55   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 5:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

Not at all. Ever try sitting in a chair with your feet flat on the floor at work at a laptop? And that's a regular chair, not in a cattle car chair.

I have not used a laptop in flight since the original iPad came out. I can't be productive unless I can walk around. So I just read.

56   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2014 Sep 19, 5:54am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P says

JetBlue's E-190 regional jets have 18.25-inch wide standard seats.

Yep. Only two seats per row.

57   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2014 Sep 19, 5:55am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P says

I have not used a laptop in flight since the original iPad came out. I can't be productive unless I can walk around. So I just read.

I couldn't read my Kindle on one of those new 777s. The person in front of me literally hit my lip when reclining. In fairness, I booked last minute and could only get the last row so I couldn't recline myself.

Well, I was exhausted and fell asleep anyway; thank god, it was a 9 hour flight.

I like to bang out spreadsheets on the plane, since it's a mindnumbing task, then at the hotel I can relax and enjoy.

58   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 5:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

Yep. Only two seats per row.

It is also a narrower tube. But the Embraer E-jet is very good. I definitely prefer it over the CRJ.

59   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2014 Sep 19, 5:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P says

. But the Embraer E-jet is very good.

Haven't been on one, but they look great. Embraer makes clever stuff.

60   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 5:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

thunderlips11 says

I couldn't read my Kindle on one of those new 777s. The person in front of me literally hit my lip when reclining. In fairness, I booked last minute and could only get the last row so I couldn't recline myself.

BTW, United's 777 have 18-inch wide coach seats. Definitely try Economy Plus. That extra 3 inches of legroom means a lot.

61   EBGuy   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 6:22am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TL said: (Yes, there's the baggage check at the gate trick. As more people use it, I expect the airlines to nix it.)
At Ess Eff, before you enter the security line, United now has staffed a couple of "baggage police". They force folks with oversized carry-ons to try and put them in the carry-on sizer model. A lot of time people can repack or wear a jacket; otherwise, they're sent back to the counter to check it in (and pay the fee).
United is also experimenting with loading by Group. I was in "Group 5" last time. Those of us in this group finally figured out that we were all single aisle seat passengers (makes sense to load us last). That said, they also made us gate check (free) our carry on bags as we were near the end of the line. When I got to my seat (near the rear of the plane) there was still overhead space -- which means the prescreening measures before security are working. I'm seriously considering Southwest to avoid the carryon kabuki.

62   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2014 Sep 19, 6:26am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P says

BTW, United's 777 have 18-inch wide coach seats. Definitely try Economy Plus. That extra 3 inches of legroom means a lot.

For me it's the ass room. Though I'm beginning to think it's the arm rests, too. One thing I noticed when flying exit row seats like I normally do is that the arm rests don't go down (which sucks because I'm usually the only one in the row leaving from S. Amr., the longest leg of my trips) , but they are somehow "Wider" - maybe because of the arm rest trays.

EBGuy says

I'm seriously considering Southwest to avoid the carryon kabuki.

Yeah, I hate the carry on process. I know I'm a lone wolf on this, but it stretches out the boarding and most importantly, exit process, esp. if you're towards the back or the plane is full of families packing daughter and mom's Spaceballs Sized Princess Hair Driers in them.

I'd rather wait in baggage check where I can stretch, smoke, get a coffee, etc. after being confined for hours.

63   MAGA   ignore (1)   2014 Sep 19, 6:36am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I always pay the extra money for "Economy Plus". I get the same leg room as first-class at a much lower price.

64   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2014 Sep 19, 6:41am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Peter P says

In the end, seating space is determined by the market. Passengers will be even more upset if they are forced to pay more for bigger seats.

It's more than about the size of the seats. More asses adds more weight. And their luggage extra weight. Besides the issue about the seat size, space and service. The amount of personal property you can travel with is shrinking. Or becoming something only those privilege enough to be able to pay for, can afford. It's more elitist exceptionalism we tolerate in this country. When a product and service is successful. Then cheapen it, and make getting what you paid for an "Upgrade". Pretty soon it's going to get to the point where you have to show up at the airport empty handed. Fly naked to your destination, purchase new clothes in the airport terminal at your destination.

65   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2014 Sep 19, 6:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

While flying standing back to belly.

66   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2014 Sep 19, 6:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

FWIW Jet Blue a carrier down here I always use when I fly to New York. Is a very economical airline. Usually 30% cheaper than any other airline. And I've never had a problem with their seat size. But then of course, it's only a few hour ride. By time my legs a fatigue and stiff, we're already preparing for landing.

I wouldn't mind the leg room if the ticket price was considerably less than the other airlines, or it was a short trip. The problem when every airline does it, becomes the normal business model. So they lose the need to offer alternatives.

67   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 6:54am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

EBGuy says

United is also experimenting with loading by Group. I was in "Group 5" last time. Those of us in this group finally figured out that we were all single aisle seat passengers (makes sense to load us last).

This is why I sometimes also pay extra for priority boarding.

68   dublin hillz   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 7:14am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Isle seat ain't that bad in economy it definitely offers options to stretch out without having to walk around.

69   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 8:00am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CaptainShuddup says

The problem when every airline does it, becomes the normal business model. So they lose the need to offer alternatives.

Those extra-legroom seats look like an alternative to me. You can set a personal standard, use SeatGuru to do research, and shop for the best acceptable flights.

70   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Sep 19, 8:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

sbh says

"Was it worth it for a few hours of comfort? You could buy an iphone with that, you know. Better value for money."

I wouldn't own an iphone if you begged me. Along with its attendant costs it's about the least needed thing I could imagine. Until there's an app to translate the Captain's drivel it's no more than a paperweight.

It's worth it's weight in gold.
By the way, anyone who wants an iphone should get it from Costco. $20.00 off and the tax is based on what you pay, $199 or $299, not the full value of the phone $699. Walmart is similar too. No lines at Costco - we got 2 this morning.

71   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (38)   2014 Sep 19, 11:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FAT FUCK!

GET THE FUCK OFF OF THE FUCKING PLAN, YOU FUCK!

72   Vicente   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 19, 2:20pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

CaptainShuddup says

It's more elitist exceptionalism we tolerate in this country.

Why do you hate capitalism? Go back to Cuba!

73   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2014 Sep 20, 2:16am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

This is first class travel!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/15/travel/first-class-offerings/index.html?hpt=hp_c4

Having legroom is just the humane thing to do. Not the economical thing to do.

74   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 20, 3:03am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Captain, I thought you were a friend of the free market.

What do you expect businesses to do? There is demand for high-end products and they answered. The people want lower fare. That was granted too.

Just pay for an upgrade.

The rich serves as an inspiration. In this free country, you can get rich too.

75   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 20, 3:16am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

We conservatives must go beyond condescending on poor people. We must recognize that we are poor people ourselves. The only way to escape this condition is to get richer.

76   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Sep 20, 3:34am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CaptainShuddup says

This is first class travel!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/15/travel/first-class-offerings/index.html?hpt=hp_c4

Having legroom is just the humane thing to do. Not the economical thing to do.

Hey, Etihad comes with a chauffer - On a plane? LOL.

"Clocking in at around $40,000 for a round-trip flight, Etihad's three-bedroom suites come with a butler, concierge, chauffeur and private chef."

77   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (38)   2014 Sep 20, 3:37am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

pathetic. First class without courtesans and human sacrifices is just tarted up economy.

78   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 20, 3:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I don't know, $40000 is much cheaper than a chartered flight between ME and London. It is much roomier too.

Remember, first class must compete with private jets.

79   Strategist   ignore (2)   2014 Sep 20, 3:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Peter P says

I don't know, $40000 is much cheaper than a chartered flight between ME and London. It is much roomier too.

Remember, first class must compete with private jets.

Is it worth it for a few hours of flight time? If I became a billionaire I would still fly economy.

80   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 20, 6:37am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It's worth it when you can fly directly from your small town home to 4 small town business destinations in Europe and be back in time for the weekend with your family.

81   Vicente   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 20, 7:10am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

First class without courtesans and human sacrifices is just tarted up economy.

"Smoking or non-smoking? BJ or non-BJ?"

Retro porn. I wish I could remember the name of the movie now.

82   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2014 Sep 20, 7:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Peter P says

Just pay for an upgrade.

You know being a cheap poor ass peasant, is the number one cause of Deep vein thrombosis.

83   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 20, 8:11am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I am very fearful of DVT.

84   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 20, 11:32am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I do prefer loose-leaf tea.

85   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 20, 11:51am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

sbh says

Peter P says

I do prefer loose-leaf tea.

Milk in first, no doubt.

A slice of lemon instead.

86   Peter P   ignore (0)   2014 Sep 20, 11:55am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

sbh says

It was one or the other.

Yeah, lemon milk is gross.

87   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (38)   2014 Sep 20, 1:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

What airlines really need is a Caligulan Class.

« First    « Previous    Comments 48 - 87 of 87    Last »


about   best comments   contact   one year ago   suggestions