patrick.net

The daily high in Kent peaks at less than 80 degrees in July - are you sure you actually need an A/C?

I just installed some blackout shades in my upstairs skylights and it made a tremendous difference. Maybe enough that I'm not going to bother with the window unit shuffle this year (in Denver, where it reaches 90+ during the summer months)

Get a good fan and block the sunlight and see what you think.

swebb says

Get a good fan and block the sunlight and see what you think.

That's been my solution so far. I bought one of those industrial drum fans for $169 that push air like a jet engine, and it does the job quickly. However, it seems the days have also been getting more humid, and every once in while some A/C would be nice.

The frustrating thing is these A/C window units are so cheap, $119 would solve my issue immediately if I had a normal window!

I was in a similar situation a while back. I cursed the builder for choosing casement windows and therefore pushing me outside of the mass market for window ACs...I went with a small unit that just fit (without the side louvers) and made it work. It's fine for a 1 month stretch, but it's not a permanent install.

Different apartment, maybe?

I found one product that meets the specifications:

"The Airwork 12,000BTU portabale air conditioner can be used either indoors or outdoors. This is the only unit in the market that can be placed outside the residence and vent cool air inside through the window kit, saving space and reducing noise."

http://www.bjs.com/gracious-living-airworks-12000-btu-portable-air-conditioner.product.236584

The trick? They simply have a vent hose and cowling that fit over the grate where the cold air comes out! (Check out image number 3)

Is this good design? Well. one of the defects of a portable a/c is the exhaust hose. When it sits inside your apartment, the hose becomes hot -- and radiates the heat back inside!! So having the whole unit outside would seem to fix that.

The only issue is, the few reviews of this haven't been that good (like with most portables), but perhaps they didn't figure out that you can put the whole thing outdoors.

Here's another one, this one from Sears:

http://download.sears.com/own/spin_prod_684703801.pdf

See Operating Instructions -- Out-Of-Room Operation

John Bailo says

http://www.bjs.com/gracious-living-airworks-12000-btu-portable-air-conditioner.product.236584

If you put that outside, I would only put in someplace that as a roof over it, like on a balcony.

If I understand your story correctly, IMO, your real problem is the making of a spacer that works good. Even a regular window unit needs that. I do not use the crappy plastic stuff that same with mine and I used pieces of wood for my side spacers, and aluminum bar across the top (to secure it to the window frame), and lots of HVAC tape to seal it. I would think that the same would work for you, except that you need a bigger spacer. You would need a friend with a table saw and would need to use more hardware to mount it than I did, but it's still very doable, just more work.

I could cuss out homebuilders for a lot of other shortcuts too.

John Bailo says

Well. one of the defects of a portable a/c is the exhaust hose. When it sits inside your apartment, the hose becomes hot -- and radiates the heat back inside!!

Insulate the hose.

If I had a complaint about window units, it's the noise, vibration and relative low EER rating they have. mine is a 9.9EER, and a new one that costs 2X and much only gets 10.9!

Mine you if I were in the market for a new one, I would pay the twice a much for the extra 1 EER, since the only circuit I have going to my second story is a single 15A circuit.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_237724-56131-148068_0__?productId=3077865

Shurtape 2.5-in x 150-ft Silver/Aluminum HVAC Tape
Item #: 237724 | Model #: 148068 $15.88

This stuff is expensive, but worth it. It also stick way better than any other tape I have ever used.

zzyzzx says

it's the noise, vibration and relative low EER rating they have

Yes, that's why I liked the idea of putting the whole unit outside.

All I need is the cold air!

And I can control it with a remote control.

I just finished a chat session with Sears...it seems like the Kenmore would fit the bill.

zzyzzx says

Shurtape

You know when I had a portable (indoor style) I always wondered why the vent hose was so poorly insulated.

I mean it was ridiculous...I could touch the hose and it clearly was hot as can be radiating heat back into the room !!

I was using the foil tape to seal the seams (since I wasn't going to caulk in a window AC unit). If you need to insulate the pipe, I would probably use pipe wrap:

You might need more than one package of this stuff though.

John Bailo says

You know when I had a portable (indoor style) I always wondered why the vent hose was so poorly insulated.

I mean it was ridiculous...I could touch the hose and it clearly was hot as can be radiating heat back into the room !!

That's where you want to go find the person who thought it was OK to not insulate the pipe, and kick them in the groin.

zzyzzx says

the person who thought it was OK

Well, and then I read all these reviews about how hard it was to cool the room...yes, if you're putting half the heat back in!

It's like a product that could potentially work, but was designed to be flawed an fail! I know when I spent $500 on my portable, I couldn't believe how bad it was...but because I had spent so much, year after year I kept trying to figure out what "I" was doing wrong. My conclusion was that the whole design was completely stupid!

Yet, here are these products, at high cost, on the market, and presumably people buy them...and then write reviews of how bad they are! Maybe this is the future of our economy....

BTW, one of my other pet peeves in uninsulated hot water pipes.

I agree with zzyzzx. Get the portable type, and stick it on the patio.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002XITVCK/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B002XITVCK&linkCode=as2&tag=pilo0d-20

insulate the cold hose going into the house.

Fabricate a wood shim and use weather stripping to seal the window.
You can paint or stain this wood shim to look nice. Perhaps even put a grate on it to look professional.

Use a piece of wood to lock it into place so you can't enter from the outside.

Or there is also this.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Installing-AC-unit-inside-of-a-horizontally-slidi/

The house I bought had the roof painted white with a Tropicoat paint.

My AC stays on 76, and often my toes gets cold through out the day.

The biggest challenge to installing a horizontal AC into a vertical opening is, it depends on the window closing onto the top of it to hold it in place and bear the load of it trying to tip out. Once you've gotten this detail sorted, the rest is much easier.

You'll want to shape the ends of the board so that they bear on the edge of the frame and the divider, against the pulling-out force.
Then, it should be a simple enough matter to make a rectangular frame for the rest of the opening and put a nicely painted board to fill it, or plexiglas even.
Definitely pay extra for the highest EER you can find. 9000-12000 BTUs can do a very nice job cooling a space larger than advised on the package.
One great trick is to make smart use of portable fans along with the A/C unit, helping convection along. I'll place a box or tabletop fan on the floor in the room with the A/C blowing outward. This displaces the coolest air out to the space at large, and forces the hottest air near the ceiling to return to the room with the A/C unit. Make sure ceiling fans aren't working against this process.
Dehumidifying the air within the space is more important than reducing the temperature per se; it makes the difference between perspiring effectively and being soaked with sweat and feeling hot and miserable even at about the same room temperature.

When you put the unit outside, where does it draw the intake air from (the air to be cooled and then fed through the hose)? If it is drawing it from outdoors, keep in mind that this air is hotter and (probably more importantly) wetter than the air that it would get from inside your house. Therefore your duct temps will be higher than if you installed it as a traditional window unit.

May not be as bad as the hot hose inside your house, but it's something to consider.

We had this exact issue about five years back. The house we rented was savagely hot in the summer, and my wife was pregnant with my boy. Something had to be done and fast. I did some research and bought a Sharp portable AC unit. It came on rollers, had an exhaust hose with adjustable plastic window fittings to install in any sort of window that wasn't louvre. I installed the exhaust hose, and wound up insulating it later. That unit cooled the bedroom to a frosty level, and with the door open affected the house temp by maybe ten degrees. Just enough to drop it from 90 to a tolerable 80. The next summer we requested a central AC unit be installed and it was. The landlord was planning to move back in at some point so he considered it a good investment. He did so last summer and we bought a place.

Quigley says

I did some research and bought a Sharp portable AC unit

Here's another thought...given that they can make a unit like this that goes outside....why does it have to be the size of a small refrigerator?

So imagine this.

Imagine the standard window air conditioner.

But, instead of putting it halfway in and halfway out...you hang the whole thing completely outside! It would have hooks (like the tray that they hang on your car door window when you go to a drive in diner).

So the whole thing hangs outside the window, and you use a spacer hose to pump the cold air in and run the electric. It's completely weather resistant of course with a built in cowling.

Why does it have to be any more complicated?

I think that when people designed A/C they still hadn't developed the concept of cheap remote control, so they are built like old style TV sets with the knobs and all accessible like a screen.

But I don't need controls...heck, they should let me run my A/C with an Android app!

The only thing I want is the Cold Air!!

Is this a Kickstarter project or what?!

John Bailo says

I think that when people designed A/C they still hadn't developed the concept
of cheap remote control, so they are built like old style TV sets with the knobs
and all accessible like a screen.

This is only part right, for when I was looking at A/Cs about 5-6 years ago, you couldn't GET anything above a base model that did NOT have a remote. Believe me, I looked, knowing the electronic control unit was more likely to fail than the compressor etc.

Consumer behavior seems to limit innovation in design. Have you seen how many porchlight fixtures still include faux windproof intake and chimney like oil lamps, a century and several generations of light source technology later? For its faults, Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead opens with a great rant on this topic, architects sticking to old designs as new building materials and processes become available, because people won't buy something "too radical looking."

swebb says

where does it draw the intake air from (the air to be cooled and then fed through the hose)? If it is drawing it from outdoors, keep in mind that this air is hotter and (probably more importantly) wetter than the air

Yes, I spent about 30 minutes in a chat with Sears today to try and establish how the air circulates and I still did not get a complete answer. I did establish that there is only one hose involved.

From the image, if I look really, really hard, I think I see that the hose is split, so one side takes the hot air from the home in, and the other the cold out? If so that would also probably be a source of efficiency -- having the warm air and cold air sharing a dividing wall...although ultimately the job is to cool the warm air inside the house so maybe not.

For the interior use of a portable A/C I also had that question -- where is the air that is being used for hot air exhaust coming from? If the whole apartment is sealed, it has to act like a vacuum which eventually will pull more hot air in from the outside through any crack or opening in the walls. At least with cold air blowing in, it creates elevated pressure, which forces air out.

This is what you need.

One port in, One port out.

Outside unit.

http://movincool.com/

donjumpsuit says

Outside unit.

http://movincool.com/

I like the ceiling mount units:

http://movincool.com/ceiling-mount-air-conditioners

It's fairly close to what I've been describing.

Now, instead of mounting one of these on your ceiling, imagine it smaller, so you can hang it with brackets outside your window.

Then, add a window spacer and run the cool air and exhaust air hoses through that.

I put a post on their Facebook page describing the design and this discussion.

Automan Empire says

The biggest challenge to installing a horizontal AC into a vertical opening is, it depends on the window closing onto the top of it to hold it in place and bear the load of it trying to tip out. Once you've gotten this detail sorted, the rest is much easier.

That's what I use the aluminum bar for on mine. I slotted it to fit snugly into the window frame channel, and then bolted it to the top of that A/C unit. It's also on a second floor, so I don't have to worry about someone breaking in from it.

John Bailo says

Imagine the standard window air conditioner.

But, instead of putting it halfway in and halfway out...you hang the whole thing completely outside! It would have hooks (like the tray that they hang on your car door window when you go to a drive in diner).

So the whole thing hangs outside the window, and you use a spacer hose to pump the cold air in and run the electric. It's completely weather resistant of course with a built in cowling.

They used to make this. Seriously. It hung across your window and didn't block the view. Plus the noisey part was outside. The closest thing to this made today would be a mini-split system. You could probably make your own system just like this with components from a mini-split system, if cost were no issue.

Here is someone asking that same question. They pre-date the internet so you won't find pictures of them:
http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?51914_5

This is the closest thing made to it today:
http://www.rakuten.com/prod/6-000-btu-low-profile-window-a-c-w-ionizer/220187920.html?listingId=320852072&scid=pla_google_DependableResource&adid=18172&gclid=CMiqhrOopL0CFYyhOgodwQYAiA

But that's really just a "Low Profile Window AC"

John Bailo says

Is this a Kickstarter project or what?!

Probably. I would also buy an AC similar to the one you describe. Problem is that you would need economies of scale.

zzyzzx says

Here is someone asking that same question.

He's said exactly what I'm saying!

Low Profile...

Low profile seems like squat version of a regular AC:

But you're still left with the orginal issues:

-The main unit sits inside the home (noise, etc)
-You still have to mount it
-Does not easily work for a vertical casement window (in fact the spacer would have to be larger!

HOWEVER!

If there were a Vertical, HIGH PROFILE, but very, very narrow A/C (that is, turn this on its side) then it would fit the bill, as long as the costs were relatively the same!

Even still, it seems like a completely externally mounted A/C would be really efficient...

Those portable looking AC units with the two ducts that you run outside, to the condenser unit, are most common though out the world. In houses, apartments that were built before the advent of the Air conditioner.

I was on some streets in Malaysia that had 5 or 6 story buildings on each side, and every unit had one of those portable condenser units bolted next to their window. All of that air exchange made the streets bellow feel like a sweltering sauna. From the hundreds and hundreds of ac air handler units all blowing their condenser exhaust out and onto the street bellow.

My point is, they must work good. "Aircon" is now a common word in the Malay vernacular.

John Bailo says

If there were a Vertical, HIGH PROFILE, but very, very narrow A/C (that is, turn this on its side) then it would fit the bill, as long as the costs were relatively the same!

Google High Profile Window AC:
http://www.allergyandair.com/mastercool-slim-profile-window-cooler-1600-sq-ft/MCP44.html?mtcpromotion=PLA%3EAir_Conditioning%3EAir_Coolers_Fans%3EHome_Air_Coolers%3EMCP44&src=SHOPPING&kpid=MCP44&CAWELAID=120127120000005986&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CLSF0tPkl78CFUFrfgodcDcAOw

WalMart sells them:
Frigidaire FRA103KT1 10,000-BTU 115V Slider/Casement Room Through the Wall Air Conditioner
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Frigidaire-10-000-BTU-115V-Slider-Casement-Air-Conditioner-FRA103KT1/15127187

http://www.youtube.com/embed/dcVOKSJBYPQ

John Bailo says

For the interior use of a portable A/C I also had that question -- where is the air that is being used for hot air exhaust coming from? If the whole apartment is sealed, it has to act like a vacuum which eventually will pull more hot air in from the outside through any crack or opening in the walls. At least with cold air blowing in, it creates elevated pressure, which forces air out.

converting a window/wall ac into a mini split system

http://www.doityourself.com/air-conditioning-cooling-systems/295729-converting-window-wall-ac-into-mini-split-system.html

Did you ever figure out your A/C issues?

Last I saw, vertical A/Cs had a price premium of 50-80% over comparable standard ones. I'd rather fabricate a semi-elaborate hanger and duct system and hang a standard one to the side of my casement window, given the hobson's choice.

See the Internet is not forever!
The guys blueprint he posted in 2007 is gone.

hey Lo Ball Jones,
If your windows slide, they are not casement windows

CaptainShuddup says

See the Internet is not forever!

The guys blueprint he posted in 2007 is gone.

Give the NSA a call. I'm sure they have a copy

zzyzzx says

BTW, one of my other pet peeves in uninsulated hot water pipes.

I assume this is your summer pet peeve.