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Rich Don't Pay Most of the Taxes (They Pay All of Them); About the "Almost Ric
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2013 Dec 11, 8:01am 27,882 views 142 comments
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When the wealthy are prosecuted for crimes, they just pass the costs onto
consumers, and we end up paying more.
I thought that prices were determined by the market.
I see alcohol and cigarette use much more prevalent in poorer neighborhoods.
This study says otherwise:
Dan8267
2013 Dec 13, 6:01am
My husband is a pretty average earning employed doctor (specialist).
Most people don't realize that doctors pay a lot of money for malpractice insurance. And that eats away at their income.
But as I said before, even if a doctor is rich, that's ok because doctors produce wealth, they provide critical services. They literally save lives with their hands. Doctors should be rich. Bankers and those white collar criminals in the financial industry should not.
Dan8267
2013 Dec 13, 6:09am
There's nothing wrong with rich doctors, inventors, actors, professional athletes, etc. They produce wealth, even those in the entertainment business. And they do not steal wealth from others.
Well, there's something wrong with the medical sector since our costs are way out of line with the rest of the world.
There are many things wrong with the health care industry, but doctors are not one of the problems. The real problems are:
1. Fraudulent billing and accounting by health care providers, particularly hospitals.
2. Corporate games and shenanigans used to convert a hospital, a single business, into various "independent on paper" businesses, so as to prevent legal accountability when something goes wrong.
3. Private health insurance -- this should not even exist. We should use a non-profit, nationalized health insurance paid by income tax. Side note: the graduation of the income tax should be a function of the rich-poor gap and far more graduated than it is today.
4. Administrative inefficiencies that can be solved by hiring a genius like me to streamline health care administration and automate all accounting. Yes, this is a big project, but good software engineers can do things that mediocre engineers simply cannot do.
Y
2013 Dec 13, 6:10am
Well, you can control this. The more democrats you elect, the more Fed Systems will be deployed.
The point of all this is.... If a generally recognized higher paying profession has difficulty cutting the mustard, and 99% are in a worse situation than us -- then we've got a pretty f'ed up system.
Dan8267
2013 Dec 13, 6:11am
Because Berners-Lee was working for a socialist institution.
If CERN is a "socialist institution" than so is the U.S. military and we should get rid of it.
Bellingham Bill
2013 Dec 13, 7:37am
Side note: the graduation of the income tax should be a function of the rich-poor gap and far more graduated than it is today.
While good in theory I do think just socking the rich with more taxes will result in higher home values and rents for everyone.
Cut taxes on the masses, and housing rents go up.
Hand out free money, housing rents go up.
Dan8267
2013 Dec 13, 8:50am
While good in theory I do think just socking the rich with more taxes will result in higher home values and rents for everyone.
It's not about socking the rich, but rather aligning their self interests with society's interests. If the gradation of the income tax were a function of the rich-poor gap, there would be a point where siphoning more wealth would make the rich poorer and the only way the rich could increase their wealth is by increasing everyone else's.
Cut taxes on the masses, and housing rents go up.
This is just an manifestation of a more general problem. The problem is that privatizing rent income is terrible for society. Rent income should support the whole of society whereas most or all of income from productivity should be retained by the individual.
As technology advances and more jobs are automated either society will be divided into permanent haves and have-nots, or the gains of automation and ownership will benefit everyone equally. In the former scenario, the haves will kill all the have-nots and then turn on themselves. In the later scenario, no one will ever have to work again and yet will maintain an every increasing quality of life. Which world would you prefer?
turtledove
2013 Dec 13, 9:55am
$5k/mo ain't bad! Your non-shelter related bills shouldn't amount to more than half that. That leaves you with at least $30k/yr
Do you work or is that all your husbands income?
Still not shopping for mansions and yachts with $30k!
That said, student loans and the child support he pays to his ex-wife make a pretty big dent.
Not saving much, that's for sure.
Yes, I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm very lucky that we can manage it (barely). Having a parent at home is fast becoming a luxury.
I see alcohol and cigarette use much more prevalent in poorer neighborhoods.
This study says otherwise:
Read the study itself, and you will find that it acknowledges there are studies showing results every which way. There are fundamental methodology issues: sample method and self-recognition bias. The self-medicating type among the lower income strata is far more likely to under-acknowledge than the social drinkers in the upper strata.
In any case, the spending on alcohol and cigarette as percentage of disposable income in a neighborhood is easily recognized by the type of stores in the area. Liquor stores and stores that sell cigrettes grossly over-represent in poor neighborhoods.
turtledove
2013 Dec 13, 10:09am
Holy crap - this is very hard for me to believe. What is your house payment? Must be very high. Do you live in a high tax state as well? California?
I am 99.99% certain you do not work if this is true. That right there puts you in a very elite class - single income families are very few and far between these days.
To have $60k after taxes and housing payments per year - you are probably in the top 5%. Especially when you consider this is done with one income.
Yes, this is California, the land of insane house prices. Irvine doesn't have much 4-bed product under $1m (and that's a tiny dump). I'm not saying that we're poor. But when you think of the 1% who are made out to be the super-rich who are not paying their share, does my situation really strike you as the same as Mitt Romney, for example? He pays a much lower percentage in taxes than we do. We're progressive to a certain point (and type) of income... Then, it goes the other way.
$5k/mo ain't bad! Your non-shelter related bills shouldn't amount to more than half that. That leaves you with at least $30k/yr
I agree--$5K/month after taxes, housing, health care is a LOT. If someone is crying about that, they need to have their head examined.
LOL. We are not talking about a single guy living in his mom's basement while being paid to make online posts. Doctors are supposed to be one of the admired professions. Pretty girls used to fight for them, then after winning the fight would still have to put up with husbands being on call at the hospital 24/7. Serious sacrifices on the home front. $5k/mo is barely enough to put one kid through private high school or college. At this rate, why not spread legs for a good-for-nothing pot head instead of a doctor! At least the jobless pot-head live-in boyfriend would always be available at home; the household expenses can be paid for by welfare, like section 8, food stamps and cash subsidies, that would also add up to about $1k to spend each month after all housing, taxes and medical insurance already paid for by taxpayers. Such is the perversity of our tax-and-welfare system.
Cut taxes on the masses, and housing rents go up.
This is just an manifestation of a more general problem. The problem is that privatizing rent income is terrible for society. Rent income should support the whole of society whereas most or all of income from productivity should be retained by the individual.
Rent income is always privatized . . . because all goods and services are ultimately privatized: a piece of food in my mouth can not be swallowed by you. The only difference is whether:
1. limited resources are allocated competitively in an open market place with two-way freedom of choice
vs.
2. a bunch of bureaucratic monopolists allocating the same limited resources to their own benefit thereby creating Economic Rent for themselves.
There is no such thing as "public" when it comes to limited single-use/mutually-exclusive-use resources. Someone has to swallow a piece of food. The only thing "the public" can swallow is the bill paying for the food (i.e. the cost), not the food (i.e. the benefit). Only the individual ultimately gets the benefit. When "the public" picks up the bill, it just means the cost is transferred to other individuals not getting the benefit.
Bellingham Bill
2013 Dec 13, 1:26pm
It's my thesis if we lowered taxes on the top 5%, Irvine prices would just rise to take the tax cuts, since each household -- at every level of the 'property ladder' -- takes their after-tax income and bids up the cost of housing with it.
That's OK for you, since you've locked in your housing costs, but that's the deal for the next generation.
This is not to say bandit capitalists like Romney shouldn't be paying penalty tax rates of ~50%. If we doubled their rate to 48% that'd yield another $400B or so. We could use the money to get the deficit under more control.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=q0u
(gov't deficit spending)
But when you think of the 1% who are made out to be the super-rich who are not paying their share, does my situation really strike you as the same as Mitt Romney, for example? He pays a much lower percentage in taxes than we do. We're progressive to a certain point (and type) of income... Then, it goes the other way.
You and I pay higher rates % on Salary earned..
Romney has no Salary! He has no employers to be paid from !
He isnt on anyone payroll... So he doesnt pay a higher rate...
One day as you, I and other retire or no longer employed.. WE will
be paying a lower rates... you will be living off savings ! or least that
is the plan for many!
This is not to say bandit capitalists like Romney shouldn't be paying penalty tax rates of ~50%. If we doubled their rate to 48% that'd yield another $400B or so. We could use the money to get the deficit under more control.
Double on what ? salary, savings, dividends, assets ?
It's my thesis if we lowered taxes on the top 5%, Irvine prices would just rise to take the tax cuts, since each household -- at every level of the 'property ladder' -- takes their after-tax income and bids up the cost of housing with it.
The money in taxpayer pockets would go to all the things that people want to buy. Your thesis essentially asserts that people spend all their money on house payment, and don't care about other aspects of their lives at all.
That's OK for you, since you've locked in your housing costs, but that's the deal for the next generation.
No, it is not. See above.
This is not to say bandit capitalists like Romney shouldn't be paying penalty tax rates of ~50%. If we doubled their rate to 48% that'd yield another $400B or so. We could use the money to get the deficit under more control.
No. The deficit is the result of spending. The more taxes collected, the more the government budgets would be larded up with long-term contracts to cronies, resulting in even more precarious budgetary problems down the road.
Bellingham Bill
2013 Dec 13, 2:40pm
The money in taxpayer pockets would go to all the things that people want to buy. Your thesis essentially asserts that people spend all their money on house payment, and don't care about other aspects of their lives at all.
They do, but housing is a very high priority.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=q0w
real per-capita (25-54) housing costs.
(this is spot-on with my own experience; btw, what I rented for $700 in 1991 ($1100 in 2012 money) rents for $1800 today, a 1.6X increase in real terms).
The more taxes collected, the more the government budgets would be larded up with long-term contracts to cronies, resulting in even more precarious budgetary problems down the road
Sure, if we elect another chucklehead like Reagan or "W".
tatupu70
2013 Dec 13, 9:38pm
We are not talking about a single guy living in his mom's basement while being paid to make online posts
Thanks for clearing that up.
Doctors are supposed to be one of the admired professions.
They still are.
5k/mo is barely enough to put one kid through private high school or college.
And if you choose to live in Irvine, you can only buy a Lamborghini once every few years. I guess that's a sacrifice you have to make.
No, just showing housing has totally outraced inflation, demonstrating my point that it's not like other expenses.
No, all you have shown is that the official "inflation" under-states some components of expenditure in real life, and housing seems to be one of them. If you graph medical expense or education expense, both would have out-raced "inflation" even more. Heck, even the cost of real food / organic food would have out-raced "inflation." In the case of housing, I'm not even sure if it is our-racing inflation: the graph you have is not adjusted for quality or quantity consumed. People live in much bigger houses today than they were in 1950's. By your way of graphing, even people's expenditure on electronics goods would have out-raced "inflation" . . . and we know electronic goods prices have definitely deflated in the last half century!
When households started making 2 incomes -- and banks started lending against that higher household income -- housing prices skyrocketed.
Along with the prices for many other items, including medicine, education and real food (organic food, but industrially produced substitutes). The average houses also got much bigger with more amenities during that time (the graph is not just housing but also utility, which is a reflection of energy cost and electricity/gas monopoly surcharge "distribution fee"), unlike education getting worse and real food staying more or less the same.
Other goods aren't in such short supply and not so critical to survival and quality of life as housing. No good is, really, since housing even determines how well your kids grow up etc.
Do you want to try giving up food or medicine? As for kids, upper middle class bidding up prices for houses in good neighborhoods is only a reflection that high taxes and inflationary transfers have already deprived them the capacity to send kids to private schools away from home.
As for the partisanship talking about the national fisc, this is because the last 4 Democratic presidents have been rather serious about paying for government, while "You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter" is the Republican belief.
It's a two sides of the same scam. Both deficit spending and raising taxes increase the Economic Rent collected by the privileged at the expense of the rest of the society, at gun point. Two wings of the same political party.
5k/mo is barely enough to put one kid through private high school or college.
And if you choose to live in Irvine, you can only buy a Lamborghini once every few years. I guess that's a sacrifice you have to make.
We are not talking about Lamborghinis, we are talking about sending kids to a good quality private school, just like the good doctor himself probably had when he was young. If the good doctor and his family can not afford to live in Irvine, who should be able to? Only government bureaucrats, banksters and other gang-bangers in and out of bureaucratic costumes?
Y
2013 Dec 13, 10:20pm
you bring this on yourself by living in high mortgage districts to exist in a tiny dump. Move to stockton and quadruple your disposable income.
Yes, this is California, the land of insane house prices. Irvine doesn't have much 4-bed product under $1m (and that's a tiny dump). I'm not saying that we're poor. But when you think of the 1% who are made out to be the super-rich who are not paying their share, does my situation really strike you as the same as Mitt Romney, for example?
tatupu70
2013 Dec 14, 12:03am
We are not talking about Lamborghinis, we are talking about sending kids to a good quality private school
No. I'm talking about Lamborghinis and you were talking about private schools.
just like the good doctor himself probably had when he was young.
Really? All Drs. went to private schools? Please tell me more.
If the good doctor and his family can not afford to live in Irvine, who should be able to?
The good Dr and his family clearly can very comfortably afford to live in Irvine. They have more $$ left AFTER taxes, housing (in Irvine no less), and health care than what the median family has BEFORE all expenses. I think they have no problem being able to afford living in Irvine.. Don't you agree?
bdrasin
2013 Dec 14, 12:49am
VERY dishonest.
From the article: "...when it comes to individual income taxes". So that's NOT considering payroll/social security taxes, sales taxes, etc, etc.
If 80% of payroll taxes come from the bottom 50%, and I make a headline "Rich don't pay most of the taxes - 80% of taxes come from the bottom 50%", you'd call me a liar because I'm only considering one part of the overall tax structure and then claiming that it is true of taxes overall. What this article, and the O.P. has done, is just as dishonest.
$5k/mo ain't bad! Your non-shelter related bills shouldn't amount to more than half that. That leaves you with at least $30k/yr
I agree--$5K/month after taxes, housing, health care is a LOT. If someone is crying about that, they need to have their head examined.
You must not have children. 5k won't spend you very far these days. Its by no means filthy rich
No. I'm talking about Lamborghinis and you were talking about private schools.
Your Lamborghini is utterly irrelevant to this discussion. The good doc and his family is not into Lambo. Stop projecting.
Really? All Drs. went to private schools? Please tell me more.
Can you not distinguish "probable" vs. "All"? In any case, the salient point is that doctors in previous generations were able to send their kids to private schools, with money to spare for the family to live decent lives.
The good Dr and his family clearly can very comfortably afford to live in Irvine. They have more $$ left AFTER taxes, housing (in Irvine no less), and health care than what the median family has BEFORE all expenses. I think they have no problem being able to afford living in Irvine.. Don't you agree?
No, not "very comfortably." The $50k or so that you are implicitly referencing is median pre-tax income according to income tax filings, not median net income after taxes and welfare transfers, nor including any of the zillions illegal incomes, under the table payments and legally tax sheltered wealth accretion that technically are not even considered "income."
In case you did not realize, many welfare family pay nothing for taxes, housing or healthcare. So the good Doc's income is reduced from $250k to $50k for essentially nothing more than bringing up to the baseline of a welfare family. The welfare family would also have food stamps, whereas our friend Turtlelove has to spend her own money feeding her family. The illegal pharmacist (aka "drug dealer") may well be able to provide more for his pretty girlfriend than the Doc can do for his beautiful wife and family on W-2 income. That's how sad our system has become.
VERY dishonest.
From the article: "...when it comes to individual income taxes". So that's NOT considering payroll/social security taxes, sales taxes, etc, etc.
If 80% of payroll taxes come from the bottom 50%, and I make a headline "Rich don't pay most of the taxes - 80% of taxes come from the bottom 50%", you'd call me a liar because I'm only considering one part of the overall tax structure and then claiming that it is true of taxes overall. What this article, and the O.P. has done, is just as dishonest.
The bottom 50% gets far more SS payouts over a life time than they pay in in payroll taxes. Remember, "Saint FDR" told you paying into SS account is your own money. LOL. Please don't have selective memory now.
Dan8267
2013 Dec 14, 1:27am
Rent income is always privatized . . . because all goods and services are ultimately privatized: a piece of food in my mouth can not be swallowed by you. The only difference is whether:
It's not who consumes the resource, it's who produces it. No one created the land, the EM spectrum, the mineral and chemical resources mined. Such exploitation of public goods should benefit the public. No one should get rich simply by "owning" a mine. The miners, those producing wealth by extracting the minerals, should get rich.
There is no such thing as "public" when it comes to limited single-use/mutually-exclusive-use resources.
A single piece of coal is consumed by an individual, but the profits should go to the public since no individual made that piece of coal and to the miner who mined the coal.
Because Berners-Lee was working for a socialist institution.
If CERN is a "socialist institution" than so is the U.S. military and we should get rid of it.
From your silence, I take it your answer is, "Shit, I forgot that I love socialism when it pays for things I want.". That's the typical fair-weather capitalism hypocritical answer.
Rent income is always privatized . . . because all goods and services are ultimately privatized: a piece of food in my mouth can not be swallowed by you. The only difference is whether:
It's not who consumes the resource, it's who produces it. No one created the land, the EM spectrum, the mineral and chemical resources mined. Such exploitation of public goods should benefit the public. No one should get rich simply by "owning" a mine. The miners, those producing wealth by extracting the minerals, should get rich.
In other words, you subscribe to the religion that anthropomorphizes the imaginary entity "Public" and pay homage to the high priests called "politicians." The "Public" god does not eat, does not sleep, does not speak, does not think, except for through self-appointed high priests speaking in its name.
Here is a reason why ownership of natural resources by real private individuals are better than having the same limited resources managed by self-appointed high priests / managers in the name of imaginary god-like entities such as "Public": the need to use the limited resources efficiently and someday selling the residual value of the mine to another private party; that means incentive for capital investment, so the mines can produce more mineral at lower human labor cost. The self-appointed high priests and "managers" have no such concern (unless the "managership" becomes hereditory like in Feudalism) therefore have a tendency to slash and burn, and engage in identity theft on future generations . . . as exemplified by our huge "public" debt.
There is no such thing as "public" when it comes to limited single-use/mutually-exclusive-use resources.
A single piece of coal is consumed by an individual, but the profits should go to the public since no individual made that piece of coal and to the miner who mined the coal.
There is no "public" . . . only bureaucrats allocating the profit to themselves and their friends. A private mine owner would have bid more than other members of the society to achieve ownership . . . that means it has to deliver goods/services to public to achieve such "ownership," quite unlike the government bureaucratic monopoly.
Because Berners-Lee was working for a socialist institution.
If CERN is a "socialist institution" than so is the U.S. military and we should get rid of it.
From your silence, I take it your answer is, "Shit, I forgot that I love socialism when it pays for things I want.". That's the typical fair-weather capitalism hypocritical answer.
You are quite mistaken. Military is of course a socialist institution; when draft is involved, it becomes a slavery system. Then again, socialist systems are transitional phases to serfdom and slavery.
tatupu70
2013 Dec 14, 2:50am
Your Lamborghini is utterly irrelevant to this discussion. The good doc and his family is not into Lambo. Stop projecting.
But he's into private schools? Uh--you are the one projecting.
Can you not distinguish "probable" vs. "All"? In any case, the salient point is that doctors in previous generations were able to send their kids to private schools, with money to spare for the family to live decent lives.
Maybe--depends on where they lived.
The $50k or so that you are implicitly referencing is median pre-tax income according to income tax filings, not median net income after taxes and welfare transfers, nor including any of the zillions illegal incomes, under the table payments and legally tax sheltered wealth accretion that technically are not even considered "income."
Yes, the median family typically has lots of legally tax sheltered wealth accretion. Good point. Don't know why I didn't think of that. We have to count the Cayman islands accounts of the median family.
In case you did not realize, many welfare family pay nothing for taxes, housing or healthcare. So the good Doc's income is reduced from $250k to $50k for essentially nothing more than bringing up to the baseline of a welfare family
lol--does the welfare family live in a 4BR house in Irvine? I didn't know that! Please--keep telling me more about how the good Doc is worse off than the folks on welfare.
Your Lamborghini is utterly irrelevant to this discussion. The good doc and his family is not into Lambo. Stop projecting.
But he's into private schools? Uh--you are the one projecting.
You can ask Turtlelove. I'm fairly sure if she and her husband can afford it, they would prefer private schools for their kids.
The $50k or so that you are implicitly referencing is median pre-tax income according to income tax filings, not median net income after taxes and welfare transfers, nor including any of the zillions illegal incomes, under the table payments and legally tax sheltered wealth accretion that technically are not even considered "income."
Yes, the median family typically has lots of legally tax sheltered wealth accretion. Good point. Don't know why I didn't think of that. We have to count the Cayman islands accounts of the median family.
How many inner city drug dealers do you think report their full income to IRS? or even the more hard working day laborer being paid on cash basis?
In case you did not realize, many welfare family pay nothing for taxes, housing or healthcare. So the good Doc's income is reduced from $250k to $50k for essentially nothing more than bringing up to the baseline of a welfare family
lol--does the welfare family live in a 4BR house in Irvine? I didn't know that! Please--keep telling me more about how the good Doc is worse off than the folks on welfare.
A Section-8 voucher recipient can indeed rent in Irvine if s/he can find a landlord there. In fact, Irvine may be legally required to provide a certain number of low income subsidized housing.
tatupu70
2013 Dec 14, 3:10am
You can ask Turtlelove. I'm fairly sure if she and her husband can afford it, they would prefer private schools for their kids.
And I'm fairly sure they'd like a Lamborghini. What's your point?
How many inner city drug dealers do you think report their full income to IRS? or even the more hard working day laborer being paid on cash basis?
Not sure. Who cares?
A Section-8 voucher recipient can indeed rent in Irvine if s/he can find a landlord there. In fact, Irvine may be legally required to provide a certain number of low income subsidized housing.
Interesting. They get 4BR houses?
You can ask Turtlelove. I'm fairly sure if she and her husband can afford it, they would prefer private schools for their kids.
And I'm fairly sure they'd like a Lamborghini. What's your point?
They already can afford a Lambo on lease, but they are not doing that.. I don't drive a Lambo either even though I can afford one too. Lambo's are only a couple thousand a month on lease. Stop projecting out of your mom's basement. Most emotionally mature people who can afford Lambo do not aspire to having a Lambo.
How many inner city drug dealers do you think report their full income to IRS? or even the more hard working day laborer being paid on cash basis?
Not sure. Who cares?
That matter because your "median income" argument is based on the assumption that IRS data reflects all income for all Americans. Otherwise, the $51k "median income" is irrelevant.
A Section-8 voucher recipient can indeed rent in Irvine if s/he can find a landlord there. In fact, Irvine may be legally required to provide a certain number of low income subsidized housing.
Interesting. They get 4BR houses?
Yes.
tatupu70
2013 Dec 14, 4:42am
They already can afford a Lambo on lease, but they are not doing that.. I don't drive a Lambo either even though I can afford one too. Lambo's are only a couple thousand a month on lease. Stop projecting out of your mom's basement. Most emotionally mature people who can afford Lambo do not aspire to having a Lambo.
lol--sounds like I hit a nerve.
That matter because your "median income" argument is based on the assumption that IRS data reflects all income for all Americans. Otherwise, the $51k "median income" is irrelevant.
Yep--again what's your point. You think the median income is vastly understated? OK--please provide some evidence.
A Section-8 voucher recipient can indeed rent in Irvine if s/he can find a landlord there. In fact, Irvine may be legally required to provide a certain number of low income subsidized housing.
Interesting. They get 4BR houses?
Yes.
lol--I won't hold my breath waiting for any evidence. Because I know you won't provide any...
They already can afford a Lambo on lease, but they are not doing that.. I don't drive a Lambo either even though I can afford one too. Lambo's are only a couple thousand a month on lease. Stop projecting out of your mom's basement. Most emotionally mature people who can afford Lambo do not aspire to having a Lambo.
lol--sounds like I hit a nerve.
Probably your own nerve. Lambo's are such a teenager boy thing. I was over that not long after getting out of college, without ever having to own one personally.
That matter because your "median income" argument is based on the assumption that IRS data reflects all income for all Americans. Otherwise, the $51k "median income" is irrelevant.
Yep--again what's your point. You think the median income is vastly understated? OK--please provide some evidence.
Hardly anyone over-states their income on form 1040 . . . yet plenty people under report due to illegal income and under the table payment. On top of that, many retirees see asset accretion without being counted towards income for form 1040 AGI purpose; e.g. house appreciation, retirement portfolio / pension portfolio appreciation, etc., and due to not having sale event to trigger counting towards income. All these common one-way biases mean that in any given year, the "median household income" is severely understated if you think reported taxable "income" is all what a family gets. The good Doc and his family however is heavily taxed due to the fact that a much higher percentage of their wealth accretion is on his W-2.
A Section-8 voucher recipient can indeed rent in Irvine if s/he can find a landlord there. In fact, Irvine may be legally required to provide a certain number of low income subsidized housing.
Interesting. They get 4BR houses?
Yes.
lol--I won't hold my breath waiting for any evidence. Because I know you won't provide any...
I have section-8 tenants in one of my 4BR's, and the government is subsidizing them to the tune of $2300/mo. They were in there when I bought the house, and I let them stay because one of their kids is finishing up the local high school, one of the best public high schools in the country. I'm probably losing about $300-500/mo compared to current market rate for that much square footage in the local market.
tatupu70
2013 Dec 14, 5:43am
Hardly anyone over-states their income on form 1040 . . . yet plenty people under report due to illegal income and under the table payment. On top of that, many retirees see asset accretion without being counted towards income for form 1040 AGI purpose; e.g. house appreciation, retirement portfolio / pension portfolio appreciation, etc., and due to not having sale event to trigger counting towards income. All these common one-way biases mean that in any given year, the "median household income" is severely understated if you think reported taxable "income" is all what a family gets. The good Doc and his family however is heavily taxed due to the fact that a much higher percentage of their wealth accretion is on his W-2.
Here's a pro tip for you. Restating your opinion is NOT evidence
tatupu70
2013 Dec 14, 5:44am
I have section-8 tenants in one of my 4BR's, and the government is subsidizing them to the tune of $2300/mo. They were in there when I bought the house, and I let them stay because one of their kids is finishing up the local high school, one of the best public high schools in the country. I'm probably losing about $300-500/mo compared to current market rate for that much square footage in the local market
lol--is this one of the houses you re-plumbed? OK, whatever you say big guy.
lol--is this one of the houses you re-plumbed? OK, whatever you say big guy.
No. This is one of the houses that I bought much earlier. Obviously, houses that I bought this year with missing copper pipes wouldn't have people living in them at the time of closing.
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Rich Don't Pay Most of the Taxes (They Pay All of Them); Reflections on the "Almost Rich"
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/12/rich-dont-pay-most-of-taxes-they-pay.html
Mish