patrick.net

Vicente says

Where your Federal income taxes go:

come on Vicente.. be a brave soul and show a trend of Military spending as a percentage of GDP trended over the past 60-75 years ..

Robert Sproul says

ttacked!

Go to War!

The raw hysteria inherent in this kind of dialog about a couple of buildings getting knocked down a decade and a half ago makes me cringe.

You are more likely to be killed by your toaster you simpering pantywaist.

Ask yourself why the PLO never went after US targets during the 70s and 80s..
had they.. they ALL would be dead by now !

thomaswong.1986 says

show a trend of Military spending as a percentage of GDP trended over the past 60-75 years ..

So what is your point? That we should ignore that all the extra GDP is going to whom? and also allow that perverse mystery to excuse Gov't Shutdown Theatre that largely results from military spending?

You're just diddling yourself with percentages.

Vicente says

Where your Federal income taxes go:

and the web site it comes from ... a pacific web site....

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

and even worst the chart is discredited..

These figures are at odds with official government figures:
"[Dov S. Zakheim, the Pentagon comptroller pointed] out that the 2004 military budget would represent 16.6 percent of all federal spending, compared with 27.3 percent in the late 1980's."[7]
"...War Resisters....count moneys appropriated for veterans' benefits and payment of the national debt as "taxes to support past wars." The group does this because the only way it can arrive at the figure of 47 percent of the federal budget going to the military is to count what they see as past military spending."

thomaswong.1986 says

War Resisters....count moneys appropriated for veterans' benefits and payment of the national debt as "taxes to support past wars." The group does this because the only way it can arrive at the figure of 47 percent of the federal budget going to the military is to count what they see as past military spending."

You don't think veteran's benefits should count as defense spending??

tatupu70 says

You don't think veteran's benefits should count as defense spending??

No. Veterans benefits should count as socialized medicine, and must be cut immediately. No real American supports socialized medicine.

thomas wrong.1986 says

Like I said... Uber pacifists will never be satisfied...

And chicken-hawks never have moral qualms.
Reputable, independent, studies now say the total costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars easily top 4 trillion. These lunatic, immoral, international war crimes have bled off the prosperity of the nation, as well as the potential for creative mitigation of some of our intractable dilemmas in resource depletion and infrastructure decay.
What all you war-mongering, chicken-hawks fail to notice, by virtue of ignoring all the lessons of history, is that huge standing armies, and the Perpetual War demanded by Empire wealth extraction, always comes home at the end.
This is visibly happening now in the "Homeland"

Around 2007, when the last of the keyboard commandos finally grew quiet in the face of obvious budget-busting abject Neocon failure, their talk immediately turned to "Boy, that Hillary will fuck up the federal finances real bad when she gets in."

You're talking to a brick wall. Self-examination ain't their thing. Conservatism is always right. It cannot fail. It can only be failed. Everyone but the most conservative person in any conversation is a socialist.

HydroCabron says

Conservatism is always right. It cannot fail.

"It's true because we believe it."

Far-right conservatism is built on two pillars:

1) The appeal to authority fallacy
2) The "it's true because we believe it" fallacy

thomaswong.1986 says

"...War Resisters....count moneys appropriated for veterans' benefits and payment of the national debt as "taxes to support past wars."

In what universe is that NOT a military expense? Oh right, yours. Where any accounting trick or pretense is OK if it let's you pretend we don't outspend everyone on the planet for military.

Vicente says

homaswong.1986 says

"...War Resisters....count moneys appropriated for veterans' benefits and payment of the national debt as "taxes to support past wars."

In what universe is that NOT a military expense? Oh right, yours. Where any accounting trick or pretense is OK if it let's you pretend we don't outspend everyone on the planet for military.

so you have an issue with the comptroller and GAAS.. good luck with that..

tatupu70 says

You don't think veteran's benefits should count as defense spending??

too bad it doesnt jive with your narrative...

thomaswong.1986 says

Vicente says

Where your Federal income taxes go:

come on Vicente.. be a brave soul and show a trend of Military spending as a percentage of GDP trended over the past 60-75 years ..

Come on thomas be a brave soul and show us how much spending that was dod is now in other departments as well as obvious military spending in other departments not on dod budget. Perhaps you should actually read your own chart. It says "Defense Budget" not military spending.

Let look back 60-75 years. All intelligence was military except the OSS which was tiny. Now the government admits ( I highly doubt it is all) to 53 billion for intelligence outside the dod. That would increase the dod budget by 9%. Military retirees went from dod to treasury in 1984, that's 39 billion. The space program was and is 90% military, not a cent came dod budget, god only knows what that cost. The VA at 87 billion would add 13% to dod budget if it weren't under HHS. How about nuclear materials production under D of Energy.

The list goes on and on. Go sell your claptrap the dod budget and military spending being the same somewhere else.

thomaswong.1986 says

too bad it doesnt jive with your narrative...

What's my narrative?

bob2356 says

Come on thomas be a brave soul and show us how much spending that was dod is now in other departments as well as obvious military spending in other departments not on dod budget. Perhaps you should actually read your own chart. It says "Defense Budget" not military spending.

you must have forgotten how much defense cuts we had since 1991.. how many bases were closed and military equipment scrapped.. how many Nukes and Silos have been decommissioned. Have you forgotten all this ? we are no where near 1980s spending ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure_Commission

Its been a long long time since I seen P3 Orions flying out of Mt View Moffet Field.

thomaswong.1986 says

you must have forgotten how much defense cuts we had since 1991

That's a load of crap. Overall defense operations are far more outsourced. Was Gulf War I operations infrastructure handled by Cheney/Halliburton? Were there paid bodyguards running all over war zone then? Fuck no. Maybe 1% of Gulf War I involved contractor operations. I suppose though that Blackwater is attractive despite higher costs, since you don't have infinite healthcare & pension obligations to them.

thomaswong.1986 says

you must have forgotten how much defense cuts we had since 1991.. how many bases were closed and military equipment scrapped.. how many Nukes and Silos have been decommissioned. Have you forgotten all this ? we are no where near 1980s spending ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Realignment_and_Closure_Commission

Its been a long long time since I seen P3 Orions flying out of Mt View Moffet Field

You must have forgotten all the growth in "homeland security" as well as "intelligence". Destroying nukes and closing silos don't even add up to a rounding error in defence spending.

I will type this really slowly for you. The dod budget isn't the same thing as military spending. Not by a long shot.

bob2356 says

You must have forgotten all the growth in "homeland security" as well as "intelligence". Destroying nukes and closing silos don't even add up to a rounding error in defence spending.

nickles and dimes going to servers/ HW/SW costs... and small special forces teams.

you want to compare that to massive military costs of the past.. facilities like the Navel and Air Force

Bases and Personal.. just look at the Bone Yards where it went to...

thomaswong.1986 says

Your picture proves nothing about a real reduction in defense spending.
Once upon a time back in my aerospace days the F-117 was the hot-shit black project what about 100 million dollars each? Now all rotting in boneyards. Yes old planes end up there who cares really. We spend money on all this homeland security and contractor shit that we did not back then.

thomaswong.1986 says

drew_eckhardt says

The Democrats want a big, powerful government run for corporations' benefit with its growth paid for by higher taxes.

have you ever known or seen growth occur due to higher taxes rates.. yet both in 1961 with the Kennedy Tax Cut and later with 1981 Reagan Tax Cut we saw economic expansion occur with higher employment and higher tax revenues. Higher Taxes rates have not resulted in higher tax revenues.

Growth in government.

Look at what the entire Establishment keeps out of sight!
http://patrick.net/?p=1230886
"Fool them if you can." is the mantra ...