patrick.net

Bap33 says

Women are sitting on a gold mine. Some know it, some don't. A Man's mission is to find the ones that don't know it.

The problem is the smart ones know it.

And from and evolutionary standpoint, men want smart women (read, long term purposes)

BayArea says

Bap33 says

Women are sitting on a gold mine. Some know it, some don't. A Man's mission is to find the ones that don't know it.

The problem is the smart ones know it.

If they don't know, then the scum of the earth-lawyers- will make sure they do and bill it by the hour to the man!

There is already a lawyer seeking to sue CT 100 million dollars on behalf of one of the survivors.

I once ran into a guy I had not seen for a few years. He told me the story of where he had been and what had happened to him:

A few years prior he finally succumbed to the incessant ticking of the clock and started looking for Ms. Right. After a bit he found someone - funny, smart and good enough so after a few weeks of dating he proposed and soon after they were married. He sold his house, moved from SoCal to New Mexico.

Then she stopped taking her meds.

She became withdrawn, barely speaking to anyone. She would work all week, come home on Friday and shut herself up in her own room all weekend and not emerge until Monday morning when she would return to work. Any contact turned into a fight. This went on for months until he finally wised up and filed for divorce. I don't remember the terms of the divorce but there were as one would expect no kids to worry about.

Unfortunately for him the SoCAl RE market had exploded in the time since he had sold his home there. He was no longer able to buy into the market so he was damned to renting.

Love with ALL of your heart, but never, EVER trust. You don’t know someone or how much someone might hurt you until they’ve been presented with considerable temptation (the kind that’s worthy of betrayal). Trust only to the extent that you can survive betrayal’s cost. Never leave any critical aspect of your life at the whim of deceit. The most common form of life altering heartbreak frequently originates from the ones we trusted, respected, cared for and loved. When the reward is high enough, many will turn on you for self-gain. To whatever extent possible, remove the reward of betrayal from all of your relationships. Without reward, betrayal has no motivation. Guard your heart. Many will use you to better themselves and then devalue and discard you without a second thought. Some will say, “But you have to trust someone!” While that’s true, let me add this: “Only trust to the extent that you can survive and thrive beyond betrayal’s cost!” As humans, we are all capable of considerable deceit and betrayal, including me and you. Few walk through this life without having hurt another in considerable ways.

BRP001 says

Love with ALL of your heart, but never, EVER trust.

Or... Trust but verify.

BRP001 says

Few walk through this life without having hurt another in considerable ways.

Betrayals and other such are part and parcel of life. But the laws however have trapped men and they need to be changed to reflect current realties. In today's world we are equal beings responsible for our own welfare and so if the marraige does not work out -then move on and forge your own path. A little transitory support is fine-with the goal being transitory-but no more.

One of my colleagues was from India and had an "arranged " marraige. His parents set up the marraige-what he didn't know was the girl was already in love with someone-but never told anyone. Nowadays apparantely the women have a lot of choices, because they work and are not forced into it. But he was a good catch- a US citizen and pretty decent income by any standards. She agreed, came over here and had a child with him. He paid fully for her post graduate degree, all expenses etc. Meanwhile she kept on the relationship with her boyfriend who also came over on a H1B visa. Then after 7 yrs- she was a citizen too by now- she got a divorce and moved in with the kid to her lover and married him.

Now CA is a no fault state and worse a community property state-so everything during the marraige was split 50/50 and she got a free post graduate college degree and child support till the kid turns 18. The guy was so heartbroken-I guess he was still "traditional" he moved back to India and last I heard became a drunk.

It is all screwed up. The party requesting a divorce should get nothing.

Any woman who agrees to be impregnated deserves no child support whatsoever.

That said, I fully support the right to abortion. It is their bodies, and they should have the absolute right to have any medical procedure performed.

Everyone hopes that their race or gender will come out on top. Why? The benefits silly. If your race or gender isn’t on top, then you’ll be singing your tale of woe and furthering your group’s rise to the top. What happens when you find yourself on top? You hold on to your power for dear life (or fall while basking in the light of your own benevolence). It’s been happening all throughout history, across every gender, race, and religion. If men want to change the laws, then they’re going to have to go to the mat. In case you haven’t noticed, women are pretty shrewd with regard to negotiating rewards on their own behalf. They’re far, far more sophisticated than men in this regard. The saying, “…men think with their little heads…” holds much truth. Women know this, and they use that knowledge with great skill. If I were a woman, I might be doing the same.

BRP001 says

They’re far, far more sophisticated than men in this regard.

This is absolutely right. Men have too much ego, and they value their so-called intelligence far too much. If you look at someone and you cannot tell his/her weaknesses in 5 minutes you are in a great disadvantage. You need to find all the buttons quickly.

This means you must also project false weaknesses and decoy buttons. When they start attacking, you will have an advanced warning.

As I’m sure you’re aware, on battlefields, both sides lay out false targets for that very purpose. Cheap bait used to first expose and then identify the enemy. Get 'em to hit the obvious targets and waste ammunition while you target the real assets and counter attack. As you pointed out, a brilliant strategy that can be applied to so many aspects of life.

BRP001 says

As you pointed out, a brilliant strategy that can be applied to so many aspects of life.

But since many people know this now, you may have to

1) make your decoys feel real, or
2) make your real things look like obvious decoys

In any case, being able to read someone is very important. Every bit of body language cannot be missed.

Much time, effort and money has been expended on making the real thing look fake and the fake thing look real. That’s why, as you said earlier, “Trust…but verify.” Improper identification of threats can lead to enormous embarrassment. Been there…done that.

BRP001 says

Improper identification of threats can lead to enormous embarrassment. Been there…done that.

After 2 layers of deception it will be impossible to be certain. Then it is all down to risk management.

Correct. Risk identification is one thing. Initial handling of any risk is plan A. Alternate mitigation strategies follow. If my power goes out, I have battery backup. If that fails, the diesel generator kicks in. If either of those fails, rows of power supply trucks come driving up (because my stuff is that important).

Life works in much the same fashion as power failures. I actually have a battery backup on my sump pump!

Looks like your asset protection plan stood up in court. That was quite a feat.

Emotional damages are hard to fix. It is sometimes difficult to make a decision. Which one would you prefer:

1) hedging your feelings for a lifetime
2) be true to yourself and recover gracefully when things go wrong

Modernity brings much headaches.

Well I'll have to admit, Marriage is tough sometimes. There were times in the past, where if my wife was just my girlfriend I would have just walked. But I would have to say overall it's been a positive experience, things could have been or could be better. Like in a better financial position, I've always prided myself being debt free (except mortgage), but after I got married, debt seems to be attracted to me now. I have a almost 60k in debt not including my mortgage (which is almost 5 times higher now then when I was single). If I looked at marriage as strictly an financial investment, I say I got sold a lousy stock. But there are other rewards and not just sex, If I hired a prostitute every time I wanted sex (instead of getting married), it be a hell a lot cheaper in the long run.

Marriage is partly about the synergy of cashflow. It is not bad financially.

TechGromit says

But there are other rewards and not just sex, If I hired a prostitute every time I wanted sex (instead of getting married), it be a hell a lot cheaper in the long run.

Serial monogamy is another option. If you hire a different prostitute every time the cost in terms of STD risks (even with protection) can be quite high.

Peter P says

Looks like your asset protection plan stood up in court. That was quite a feat.

Emotional damages are hard to fix. It is sometimes difficult to make a decision. Which one would you prefer:

1) hedging your feelings for a lifetime

2) be true to yourself and recover gracefully when things go wrong

Modernity brings much headaches.

In this world, all relationships end. Eventually, we have to let go of all we love. I never realized why one spouse died shortly after the other after a lifetime of marriage. Now I understand. Someday, I would have had to say goodbye anyway. My choice is to grow into a better person as a result of indescribable loss. This is the fate of us all. Might as well accept it and try to grow from it. The alternative is to give up, and I’m not a quitter. The emotional damage of life is par for the course. We all must deal with it in one form or another. Although we sometimes might think so, no one is exempt from these things.

lostand confused says

Betrayals and other such are part and parcel of life.

Yes there are a lot of horror stories out there. I have a friend, he married a woman with a child. She very over weight. Anyway, for the last two years, since he moved closer to his work, she refused to relocate with him. (a move of maybe 30 miles). She rents her own place and he rents another place. And now she's unemployed. So if he divorces her, he's stuck paying alimony and child support, even though the child isn't his biological child. He claims he's still getting sex from her, but I don't believe him. And she's no looker, a fat blob to put it bluntly if you ask me. At least if you going to get screwed over by a girl, at least do it with a good looking one.

TechGromit says

I have a friend, he married a woman with a child. She very over weight. Anyway, for the last two years, since he moved closer to his work, she refused to relocate with him.

Now why would he do that?

TechGromit says

At least if you going to get screwed over by a girl, at least do it with a good looking one.

Make sure she looks good sans make-up too!

Peter P says

Any woman who agrees to be impregnated deserves no child support whatsoever.

Perhaps you were only joking...

First of all, child support belongs to the child. As co-creator, you have a financial responsibility to help meet the needs of your child.

Having spent several years working on child support reform in Georgia, I know all too well how much the system is abused. Alimony is often flown under the flag of "child support" for tax and other purposes. Men have all choice taken from them, as custodial parents are NEVER required to account for their spending of c/s. Custodial parents often claim all kinds of special expenditures as a way of padding the award and never have to show proof that the money is used for the purposes claimed in their sworn testimony. Without a doubt, the system is very flawed.

But that doesn't change the fact that each parent is responsible for meeting the needs of his and her own children in an equal capacity commensurate with each person's ability to pay... (Based on education level and previous work experience... not one's belief that she is entitled to be a stay-at-home mom for the rest of her life.)

TechGromit says

At least if you going to get screwed over by a girl, at least do it with a good looking one.

Ouch! From what I've read, getting hooked on a single mom with child is a risky bet. I got close to it once myself, but backed away quickly after I realized the cost might someday seriously outweigh the reward. There were too many variables that would have come into play and my exit strategy would have been weak at best. Don't have anything against single moms. Just couldn't handle the thought of the potential issues that would likely come up in that type of quasi parental arrangement.

turtledove says

First of all, child support belongs to the child. As co-creator, you have a financial responsibility to help meet the needs of your child.

It is a matter of expectations. What if the parents stay married? Too many parents do not take responsibility anyway.

The child support system invites too much abuses.

turtledove says

But that doesn't change the fact that each parent is responsible for meeting the needs of his and her own children in an equal capacity commensurate with each person's ability to pay...

From each according to his ability to each according to his need. I guess it incentivizes many fathers to become judgement-proof deadbeats.

I think we need to make divorces much harder, especially when there are kids involved. (It should be as hard as obtaining a Swiss citizenship.)

On the other hand, too many people have kids when they really cannot afford to.

Peter P says

turtledove says

But that doesn't change the fact that each parent is responsible for meeting the needs of his and her own children in an equal capacity commensurate with each person's ability to pay...

From each according to his ability to each according to his need. I guess it incentivizes many fathers to become judgement-proof deadbeats.

I think we need to make divorces much harder, especially when there are kids involved. (It should be as hard as obtaining a Swiss citizenship.)

On the other hand, too many people have kids when they really cannot afford to.

I don't think that the marital status has much bearing on whether a mom or a dad is a good parent (or whether both as a tandem are), so I don't think making marriages/divorces easier or harder does solve anything for the child for the better. Marriage should be a contract between the two parties only and - optionally - a religious - journey for both at the church of their liking. The government should completely stay out of it. If the government want s to incentivise kids and their stable parenting so that they can become future producers (taxpayers etc.), they should just focus on the (number of) kids and maybe come up with some metrics to measure parental success, if that is possible at all.

Peter P says

turtledove says

But that doesn't change the fact that each parent is responsible for meeting the needs of his and her own children in an equal capacity commensurate with each person's ability to pay...

From each according to his ability to each according to his need. I guess it incentivizes many fathers to become judgement-proof deadbeats.

I think we need to make divorces much harder, especially when there are kids involved. (It should be as hard as obtaining a Swiss citizenship.)

On the other hand, too many people have kids when they really cannot afford to.

If I eat too much ice cream, I’ll get fat. It doesn’t say on the jar of ice cream that I’ll get fat, but that’s what’ll happen. As a result of eating too much ice cream, I might get diabetes. It doesn’t say that on the jar, but it might happen. Do I have the right to forcibly take money from the ice cream creator for making me fat and causing me to have diabetes? Well…no. Everyone knows that ice cream eating can make you fat and may also cause diabetes. It would be silly to suggest that the ice cream maker pay me for my own choices. All I have to do is NOT open my mouth, NOT put ice cream in there, and I’m good. In short, all I have to do is control my urges and no weight gain or diabetes. All I have to do is keep the potentially bad things at bay and I’ll likely be fine. There are plenty of tasty advertisements for fatty foods, but not everyone over indulges themselves and gets fat. It’s just common sense. It’s a choice. Can I sue someone if we shared a pint of ice cream together, causing me to get fat? Nope. Sharing a choice like eating too much ice cream does not entitle you to someone else’s money.

If I drink too much and get liver damage, can I sue the alcohol company? Well no. Why? Because I shouldn’t have imbibed so much alcohol. Everyone knows the dangers of alcohol and liver damage. I made a choice that affected my body and I have no one to blame but myself. It was my choice to put a glass to my lips and imbibe too much alcohol into MY body. No one would question that it was my choice that brought about the consequences. It was my choice so why would anyone else have to pay for that choice? Making decisions is a choice. All decisions involve consequences. Why should others, even if they drink right alongside me, have to pay for my choices?

So here we are. A girl makes the decision to have sex with a man. She knows darn well that she could get pregnant having unprotected sex. She knows darn well she could get pregnant even if protection is used. It’s her body, and she decided to let some guy put his thing in her, knowing the possible result. It was her decision to have sex with him regardless of the potential consequences. If they shared ice cream together and she got diabetes, would he be held responsible legally and financially for her choice (even if they shared the same spoon)? Uh…no. If they smoked cigarettes together and she got cancer, would he be responsible legally and financially for her choice (even they were both sharing the same air)? Again…no. If they got drunk together and she developed liver damage, would he be responsible legally and financially for that illness? No…no…no…no…no. If they have sex and she gets pregnant, is he legally and financially responsible for her choice? Absolutely!

The moral of this story? Every man should load up his condoms with tobacco, ice cream, and alcohol. Don’t be a fool for the coochie!

I think we should give women absolutely control over the pregnancy, but we make them financially responsible for the children.

They can have separate contracts with the men regarding the financials and other joint arrangements.

turtledove says

First of all, child support belongs to the child. As co-creator, you have a
financial responsibility to help meet the needs of your child.

If only the dad's were able to make sure the funds went ONLY to child support. You see, when a guy dumps a gal because she spends cash like an Obama, and then he is forced to hand over thousands, to the exact same broad that is keeping the kids hungery and half-dressed due to her spending habits, (or just habits) - handed over without even the slightest oversight - that is stuuuupid.

I totally don't get the divorce phenomena in America.

I've been married 15 years, two kids and no divorce.

Yes, once my marriage was on the rocks, my wife stressed from two kids in diapers, me feeling like I'm only a pay check. Both of us lost during that time, in our new parental life feeling like it was a trap. My wife turned to crazy option trading to find the money to buy our "unrealized dreams". She charged 50K on credit cards and gambled it and lost it on the stock market, all with out my knowledge.

That was 4 years ago and the debt is now 80% paid off. Life is better, I refused the divorce and we worked it all out. I think my marriage and family is strong.

I think loyalty is really important, I believe in loyalty and I think loyalty is an important part of what keeps a couple or family together.

I don't think I understand Americans anymore,
I think Americans have lost or forgotten the importance of loyalty. Loyalty to their wife , to their husband, and to the family unit. I would even venture to say that Americans don't even feel the need to be loyal to their own country or people anymore.

If you want to get married and you want it to last, I think one should think long and hard about the concept of Loyalty, and build a high regard for it.

propitup1 says

I think loyalty is really important, I believe in loyalty and I think loyalty is an important part of what keeps a couple or family together.

Loyalty is an abstract concept.

But marriage is a contract. I expect people to respect it like they would with any other contract.

propitup1 says

That was 4 years ago and the debt is now 80% paid off. Life is better, I refused the divorce and we worked it all out. I think my marriage and family is strong.

doesnt matter what you think. it matters what she thinks. that's the terrifying part of a marriage

BRP001 says

If they shared ice cream together and she got diabetes, would he be held responsible legally and financially for her choice (even if they shared the same spoon)?

lol

"that after years of slaving away to give that woman everything, she decided she was not attracted to me anymore? what would that have done to my self-esteem?

that was a hilarious line from an episode of Malcolm in the Middle when Craig's father reveals his wife left him

The impact of hookup culture on future divorce rates:

One thing the most recent data doesn’t tell us is what impact if any the widespread acceptance of hookup culture will have on divorce rates moving forward. Just because marrying a college educated woman in the late 90s turned out to be a relatively safe bet, it doesn’t mean marrying one today will have the same low risk. Back in the late 90s the hookup culture was still in the early stages. Since then we have seen the growth of hookup culture and a mass of women postponing marriage until the very last minute. All of this adds up to an explosion of former carousel riders suddenly looking to marry. Based on what The Social Pathologist has shared here, here, and here, we know that the more sexual partners a woman has the less satisfied she is in marriage and the higher risk she presents for divorce. On the flip side, we know that older wives are less likely to divorce. This leaves us with a best case scenario of unhappy marriages with low rates of divorce, and a worst case scenario of unhappy marriages with high rates of divorce.

http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/whistling-through-the-graveyard/

this thread cannot be complete without this

http://www.youtube.com/embed/hPIxrzmatq0

Peter P says

But marriage is a contract. I expect people to respect it like they would with any other contract.

Well shit, that explains a lot. People seem to respect the contractual obligations of marriage about as much as they respect, say, the contractual obligations of a mortgage! If it stops working the way you like, walk the fuck away and make it someone else's problem! 'Murica, fuck yeah!

propitup1 says

I totally don't get the divorce phenomena in America.

it's not a country thing. it's a confluence of factors, mainly legal incentives and culture.

legal marriage is about the state shifting power to protect (and now penalize) the parties. here is an example of no-fault divorce incentives across 2 countries.

"American women file 70% of the Divorces and the American divorce rate is 50%. South Korea had a 1% divorce rate up until 1990. Until that time Korean men would get the house and children if he wanted them, and women would rarely if ever pay child support, but she would be forced to leave the marriage house unless she proved that there was something seriously wrong with the man. Until 1990, men usually filed for divorce and had to to prove fault with the wife. Since 1990, South Korean divorce laws became more similar to the USA. Since 2000, the South Korean divorce rate has been 45%, and Korean women file 65% of the divorces"

BayArea says

Please elaborate on the affair definition recommendation.

Simple. What is an affair to you? What sort of relationship outside of marriage would you consider a threat to your marriage? Would it be okay if your wife had a male friend with whom she shares her innermost feelings? Would it be okay for her to spend hours a day texting and calling this person? Is that sort of behavior an affair to you?

Oxygen says

Until 1990, men usually filed for divorce and had to to prove fault with the
wife. Since 1990, South Korean divorce laws became more similar to the USA.
Since 2000, the South Korean divorce rate has been 45%, and Korean women file
65% of the divorces"

The same in China. On divorce , women would get half the apt , even though in most cases, it was the man/his family that bought it. Last year the govt recognized the phenomenon-as there were close to 1 million divorces and so changed the law- so that women won't get the houses.

Now you have abunch of angry Chinese women !!! Whatever happened to living by your heart? Of course you have the feminists up in arms claiming Chinese women are now homeless because of the law and this is a civil rights violation. So a guy buys a home, you live in it free and don't want to be with him anymore-so you want the house and kick him out??