patrick.net

Depends on many factors. You'll have to do the math for your specific situation.

Absolutely.

Not spending an extra hour a day commuting by car is like having an extra six weeks of vacation each year or two 3-day weekends every month (assuming 10 company holidays and 2 weeks of paid vacation leaving 48 weeks * 5 days = 240 hours commuting).

Speaking from experience two people and one cat don't need that much space. 450 square feet plus an artist's loft for power tools and pinball machines is do-able, 750 with a one-car garage for toys is nice, and 1200 with a shed palatial enough you can send house guests to the south wing where they'll be out of your way.

Everyone is going to have a different opinion. So I'll throw mine in. We commute about 35 miles each way. BUT- we also leave earlier, and get off work earlier. As a result, it takes only 35-40 minutes each way. On the other hand I know plenty of people who whine that they could 'never' live anymore than 5 miles from work and yet still spend at least 30 minutes stuck in jam-packed morning traffic.

Also just bought a house in the East Bay that would easily cost at least 50% more anywhere close to work ( Peninsula) so yeah- to me the commute is totally worth it. To me at least.

I’ve had all of the possible permutations wicked short commute (3 miles / 5 minutes) mid millage with traffic (30 miles / 65 min) and long range / no traffic (55 miles / 45 minutes (if no cops on the interstate).

Historically there is an ebb and flow from suburbia to urban and back again. From late 2001 to about 2008 trend was out towards the burbs. Many middle class got pushed out to the “ex-burbs” (hour plus outside of city without traffic) as real estate prices went up. Now the prices in the exurbs have tanked in certain areas (http://www.boston.com/realestate/news/blogs/renow/2012/05/along_495_home.html?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed6_HP) – while the suburbs are more insulated from price declines.

I use to live in downtown Minneapolis in a converted loft. It was great. Walked to work everyday or if I felt lazy, took the downtown bus for 50 cents each way.

My car would stay in underground parking all week long.

Of course it depends on your specific situations.

Commuting is hugh deal, the single biggest concern for me when it comes to a house I'd buy. If there's no bus/subway to the Pentagon within 5 min walking distance, someone else can have that house.

Moved close to work in 1998 loved it, it's now a fixture. Have friends who still commute and they are insane IMO. Will never go back.

City, we have one car and one electric bike. Swap out as needed. City is fun, easier, grocery shop on the bike, no parking dramas. Love that. I am terrified driving in trader joe parking lots, people have the attitude to walk in intentionally close to car when they could just pause for a minute and share the space.

I like the city and the burbs... Both have pros and cons. In LA living in the city a few miles from work still means a 5-10 minute commute due to road construction and stop lights at every block. I guess I live in the burbs now, cause i live 15 miles from work and then freeway it... But I have a 18-20 min commute now and i have 3 alternate routes i can take depending on accidents and daily traffic.. Which i check on my phone as i pull out of my driveway.

LA is a wierd city that the odds of a couple both living and working in the same area is slim... Someone will have to commute. And LA is really like 10 or more cities all on top of each other. Theres no one place you could live that is really central and job centers are all over the place.

I live two blocks from my office while most of my coworkers live 30 mins or an hour away. One drives for an hour, and THEN takes the subway for an hour! Crazy. I pay about 200 more a month for my apartment than those with a 30 minute commute. I am basically buying my life back at less than $10 an hour, and I'm okay with that.

Actually you are freeing up about $100 more than them in gas costs, it must cost about 300 a month for gas for those evil road rage commutes.

I don't mind a half hour drive each way. Anything more than say an hour is much more of a trip.

Then again it depends on what is there. I just met a man that went to the Indy 500. Said it took him two hours to go one mile due to traffic. Places there stop doing deliveries that week due to it.

NO desire to live in an urban setting, suburbs works just fine and exburbs is nice too. IF (the big if) I worked 'downtown' THEN I might re-think it but that pretty much has never happened - being in construction I'm rarely in the same place. However, now I'm in a construction position for an airport - however, the area around the airport ... not only is it too noisy, but the area is VERY rough. No, I have a wonderful house 20 miles away, I have plenty of room for every thing that I want and room for any family. Urban settings make me go ugh. Just my two cents worth.

John Bailo says

What makes the most sense is to move to a low cost state where you can get a brand new home and some acreage for $100,000 and live off a standard wage.

That's my strategery.

I've lived one block, 12 miles, and 30 miles from work, but in my state you look for the lowest cost county, typically the smallest county with as little government infrastructure as possible, but this is he midwest, you have to go two counties out of the city to even start to get a break on property taxes. Where I live, the money you burn up driving the farther distance, you make up for in having a little bit cheaper property away from the city, and most likely a bigger piece of land, depending on the burb. For instance, many inner city government workers commute into the city, they can't afford RE in the city.

JonnyDanger says

I live two blocks from my office while most of my coworkers live 30 mins or an hour away. One drives for an hour, and THEN takes the subway for an hour! Crazy. I pay about 200 more a month for my apartment than those with a 30 minute commute. I am basically buying my life back at less than $10 an hour, and I'm okay with that.

But i bet you sacrifice a yard, pool , garden, privacy... To get that lack of commute. I lived 5-10 min from work for 8 years... I enjoyed it, but now i enjoy having a plot of land to makeover and call my own. You will probably feel that way to in another 5 years.... Things change, living next to the hot club/bar scene downtown is fun... But when you have wife, kids, and a dog... The burbs have a lot more to offer that makes a 20-30 minute commute worthwhile.

BoomAndBustCycle says

You will probably feel that way to in another 5 years....

Making a lot of assumptions, are we? I would never presume to tell a stranger what their preferences are. To each his own.

And I have a rooftop pool, a garden plot, and 12 inches of concrete in every direction for privacy. I have done enough yard work to last a lifetime. Kids? Ha! I value my free time far to much for that. Again, I'm not saying it's better; to each his own.

it's amazing what folks'll go through to avoid 'living' beside people of color.

KILLERJANE says

I live in burbank and it's well mixed everywhere I have lived here and people seem to be fine with each other.

Did you grow up in Burbank as well ? if not not how long have you been in CA ?

KILLERJANE says

B.A.C.A.H. says

it's amazing what folks'll go through to avoid 'living' beside people of color.

Just depends what decade the town exists in. Is it 2012 or 1952 ? Where is it 2012? I live in burbank and it's well mixed everywhere I have lived here and people seem to be fine with each other.

I think people are afraid of each other in many places where there is anger for the past. I know, I have felt the anger directed at me and it makes me uncomfortable like someone is going to act meanly to me for a past I did not exist in. But still I get the backlash effect, I just don't want to feel scared.

Thinking saying and doing need to line up.

I thought you said you lived in the city and rode a bike / walked everywhere?

I do not know too many areas of Burbank where that is so simple to do. I guess since i lived in Hollywood and downtown LA... I consider Burbank more of a suburb... Than city living. Especially if you live up by the golf course in the burbank hills.

LA is so spread out though... If you got a job on the westside your commute would be worse than some of friends i know commuting into Burbank from Santa Clarita.

Owned and live in both the easy bay suburbs and city, city (urban) hands down. It comes to a few basic conclusions:

How much do you value space? For us 3/2 1500 square feet is plenty of enough for a family of four. Anything more is not worth the sacrifice. Slept in a 150 square room and a 400 square foot master bedroom, the small room is more comfortable. I find no good reason why everyone needs their personal bathroom, a suburb specialty. Conclusion, space up to a certain point adds zero or little value.

Is time of the essense? We value time more a lot more than before. How much is it worth to you, $10/hr, $100/hr, etc. Notwithstanding, driving less means around 55 cents a mile (IRS rate which accounts for gas, depreciation) and cheaper insurance premiums and less maintenace. We would not live in many safe suburbs even if the house is free. Conclusion, cost is a function of actual cash expense and indirect expense such as value of time.

How much do you value being social and around people? Face it, no one really wants to drive 1 hr to visit you no matter how nice your house is. In the city, I can call up a friend anytime and not have the traveling obstacle. Ad Hoc meeting any day of the week with lots of family and friend is a possibility. Suburbs are too quiet by around 9pm. At West Portal/UCSF, I can grab a coffee/cake and they are still buzzing at 10-11pm.

Urban homes are better investments anyway as the basic demand and supply is working in your favor. Much more demand and little supply is a favorable long term condition. I am certain San Francisco will not build any new SFH (other than replacing an old one and has been that way for 30 years), which is exactly why they are and will be coveted. Maintenance and improvements makes a lot more sense in 1M San Francisco house than in the suburb.

Is the city the right place to raise a family based on family needs, budget, environment and schools? If not, what are the alternatives?

Space is vastly overrated. My neighbors raise two kids in their 400-sf apartment! That's a little cramped for my tastes, but if we had two kids (may God smile upon us), I'd say 600 sf is fine. If apartments get too big and people start feeling entitled to 2000-sf mansions, the population density isn't big enough for all the necessities of life to be within walking distance.

B.A.C.A.H. says

it's amazing what folks'll go through to avoid 'living' beside people of color.

Wow, big time assumption. While I'm living in the suburbs and I am white, my community is over 50% color with the rest of the population being asian, from India and that area and white. My community was named one of the most diverse communities in the United States, so you might want to tone down your assumptions.

John Bailo says

Almost all job growth in recent years has been in the exurbs and rural states.

What makes the most sense is to move to a low cost state where you can get a brand new home and some acreage for $100,000 and live off a standard wage.

Also telecommuting is growing despite all the naysayers. If you are willing to trade income for time, maybe you should. Eventually, your wage might rise anyway.

Telecommuting is a way of life for the company I'm with now. I log in at eight and take care of email, have my calls between ten and noon and then off to the colo or half of the time work the rest of the day from home.

mmmarvel says

B.A.C.A.H. says

it's amazing what folks'll go through to avoid 'living' beside people of color.

Wow, big time assumption. While I'm living in the suburbs and I am white, my community is over 50% color with the rest of the population being asian, from India and that area and white. My community was named one of the most diverse communities in the United States, so you might want to tone down your assumptions.

Even if it were true, no one could do anything about it anyway. We are who we are and that's it.

Michinaga says

Space is vastly overrated.

Right up till the time you need/want it and it's not there. If you're stuck living in an apartment, there isn't much you can do, short of moving. With my home, I can add on, build on, build out, etc.

How much stuff is necessary. A bed, table, chair, sofa, iPad, internet connection box, clothes, suitcase, toiletries. Rent the rest when needed.

mmmarvel says

With my home, I can add on, build on, build out, etc.

Can you "un-add" what you don't need?

My 80+ y.o. parents are in a 2-story monstrosity, well 3 floors if you count the full basement. All the bedrooms are of course on the top floor. It's an albatross right now.

Vicente says

Can you "un-add" what you don't need?

My 80+ y.o. parents are in a 2-story monstrosity, well 3 floors if you count the full basement. All the bedrooms are of course on the top floor. It's an albatross right now.

Uh, yeah, that's what chainsaws, bobcats and DC-8's are made for. If you want to get rid of a basement, you can use concrete. You want to get rid of whatever, you can, get a demolition permt and go for it.

And once again we have a lot of gross assumptions being made by both sides of the table. The assumption that those who live far away or close to work are either perfectly happy or totally miserable as a result of their decision. Everyone makes a decision for their own personal reasons and if you're happy with yours then so be it.

edvard2 says

And once again we have a lot of gross assumptions being made by both sides of the table. The assumption that those who live far away or close to work are either perfectly happy or totally miserable as a result of their decision. Everyone makes a decision for their own personal reasons and if you're happy with yours then so be it.

I don't love my commute but most of my work is over the wire and when I do have to go down there, I can go against or off traffic. It's really not that bad.

The problem with the blog is that it assumes you work downtown. Many big cities aren't the employment centers any more (and haven't been for some time). These days one typically commutes from one suburban area to another suburban area.

I have had very short commutes (2 miles and went home for lunch every day) and very long ones (32 miles each way in DC traffic). Since steady jobs are scarce, it's likely that you are going to have a terrible commute at some point, unless you want to live in rentals and move often. That and when I worked in DC I wasn't about to live anywhere near my work.