patrick.net

@pedro3000

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

Medical field salaries are inflated for the services they provide.

You will see a very big collapse in the medical field.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

You will see a very big collapse in the medical field.

The ICD 9 code for syncope & collapse is 780.2; in other words, it's billable.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

@pedro3000

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

Medical field salaries are inflated for the services they provide.

You will see a very big collapse in the medical field.

Member of Banking Aristocracy

Let's hope so. As I mentioned in my previous post, end of life Care for the, elderly, as well as unnecessary surgeries, expensive medications etc are absurdly expensive and need to go away.

Like all other less expensive healthcare systems, after reform there will always be those who wish to pay extra for quality and expertise and those who want just the basics and don't care about waiting hours to get minimal care. The quality of care that I provide will always be in demand, whether I am paid in dollars, rupees or chickens. I am not worried about my professional wellbeing as I have an irreplaceable skill. Times like this I am happy I spent an extra eight years after college honing my trade while some of my buddies took the easier path to a quick buck. PS I am looking forward to Obama reelection and hoping he can pull of a major overhaul of our broken healthcare system.

they are, and seem to always have been, in collusion with the insurance companies (otherwise those companies would NOT rule the day as they do now). doctors could have banded together to keep facility & equipment costs down through some kind of shared/bulk purchase of same. instead, the current system allows them to raise, and raise, and raise their own rates simply because the customer is now the insurance company instead of the person who was just standing in a paper gown in a windowless room wondering how they got highway-robbed and bankrupted for having a thermometer shoved up their arse.

they like the obscurity of the present system because it enables them to not have to pay office staff to act as a debt-collection service anymore. they like it because it allows them to bill 5 'customers' for the same 1 hour consultation when they literally have 3 people scheduled for the same doctor in the same 10 minute window (actual experience, i kid you not. the waiting room was full of "i too have an appointment with Dr.Soandso at 10:15" testimony, until it became a chanted punchline for the next guy walking up to the window).

imagine trying to get away with billing an actual client for a whole hour when they da*m well know you only 'consulted' with them for 10 minutes, during which time you tried to play catch-up on your homework like a naughty schoolkid because you apparently didn't even bother to read their file before stepping into the room. "what are you here today to see me about again? ohyess, i see....no, i didn't look at that MRI/test/specialist report. let me do that now."

it's the same kind of pete-and-repeat stuff every single time you're sent out to another specialist who also doesn't seem interested in anything other than scheduling his next conference, or spring break skiing vacation. actually, considering how all of them only seem to be 'In' the office every other day of the week, and their scheduling assistant has every second thursday off, and between this and playing phone tag with their answering service, it's a wonder that you can ever schedule that 10 minute window at all.

and they all want to cry about how the system as it is is so unfair. try being a patient who wants some kind of answer or resolution to the problem at hand in that kind of system. imagine dragging your car (or better yet, your kid) around town from one specialist to another and playing this game for months.

now watch them all crawl out of the woodwork trying to prove that they aren't like that, they don't do that, they deserve that because of all the extra time and expense they took to obtain a lucrative level of expertise.

and no, i don't hate doctors. but nearly every time i've ever had the (mis)fortune of dealing with one, they seemed to indicate by their lack of interest in solving my actual problem and continual guess-and-check misdiagnoses that they could not care less about me except as an adjunct to the insurer that they could bill.

Geez guys. So much anger here. That last comment from suspiria_2 is so full of misinformation, that I would not know where to begin responding to it, so I won't.

Getting back to my initial response to this post, I am concerned about how folks here speak like "experts" on things that they don't seem to understand. I think you might be better off sticking to housing issues, as there is a lot more room for creative interpretation.

I am all about spewing out your anger and venom in the form of subjective negativity about whatever topic you desire (I think it is quite healthy to externalize it that way) but it was an eye opener to see how passionate some folks get about topics that they don't know much about- I fear that the uninitiated might be misinformed by it.

When I initially came onto Patrick.net it was to learn about the bear market, and I think it did it's job. I knew really nothing, and had bought a house at the peak. Mostly through the links, and some of the posts, I gained a decent understanding of the housing market. I can now smell the trolls and uneducated with regards to housing topics. Obviously I can also recognize those who are speaking about healthcare and not making any sense.

Actually I just got word (yesterday in fact) that our short sale purchase has been approved by the bank, so we are moving out of our rental and into a house. I had stuck around here until the last minute, because I wanted to find solace in the permabear links to balance the stress of not knowing if the short sale would go through, as I would have continued renting in that case.

Now that I am in escrow, it means I will turn off Patrick.net, and start reimbibing the Kool Aid from the mainstream media about where real estate is going, because up, up, up, sounds good at this point even if that opinion would be as off base as some of the healthcare comments expressed in this post.

On that note, I would definitely encourage everyone to educate themselves about the medical system as it is truly a major issue, and unlike realtors, it will be very, very hard for you to avoid interacting with the medical system over the course of your lifetime.

For those of you who are following along with the comments, and are in need of some expert advise from a real physician, who actually cares about his patients I will give you a few cost saving tips. It is also what I do myself and for my family.

1. Look at highest deductible plans, but make sure they are not scam type plans that don't give you any real benefits. They will be your best bet for a low cost monthly plan. They are still overpriced, and padding the insurance companies pockets but they are better than the others. They are considered "catastrophic" and will cover the huge bills you would incur if you get hospitalized. Also, and equally important, you get access to the cheaper "negotiated" rates that the insurance companies force physicians to accept, so your out of pocket will be in many cases, very reasonable.

2. Try to avoid a prescription plan, and whenever possible buy generic medications. Target has a large selection of $4 a month prescriptions.

3. Unlike the Patrick's original post, or many of the comments here, all physicians have a fee schedule. Many will give you a very fair price for consult (if you are not an asshole) to help you out.

4. If you need a surgery, look for a doc who can do it in an ambulatory surgery center. Much easier to negotiate a lower price, as the bloated hospital facility charges will not be relevant. Keep in mind though it still won't be cheap.

5. Don't expect to get your gallbladder taken out for the price of a dinner for four at Cheesecake factory. Not going to happen. If you are going to pay out of pocket, expect to pay at least what you would pay to get your transmission rebuilt. Need a bypass surgery? Don't get to upset if you have to forgo the kitchen remodel, or purchasing a Kia to cover the bill.

6. Lose weight, watch your stress, don't smoke, watch your diet, exercise a bit, have no more and no less than 1 drink a day. Sheesh, if you all did that how much would you (and the country) save on health care?

7. Stay out of emergency departments. Extremely expensive. However, all ED's are obligated to care for you without regard to ability to pay, i.e. they cannot refuse to treat you, HOWEVER, they will also bill you exorbitant fees after they provide the care. You can negotiate those fees down after the fact, but you are going to be starting with very very high fees to begin with.

8. Urgent cares are reasonable alternatives to the ED, although many times they will just send you to the ED after seeing you there, especially if you have high risk complaints like abdominal pain (may be appendix), chest pain (may be heart attack) shortness of breath (may be PE, etc.). This is because of concerns about missing a serious diagnosis and the urgent cares do not have the resources of an ED.

Good luck, and REALLY follow #6. If you are a bloated, stressed out, unhealthy person, don't complain about how much it costs to try to fix the damage you are doing to your own body.

The doc.

^

I agree that I also hate people who fail to take care of their body but than bitch n moan when they damaged their own health through neglect of proper diet, exercise, sleep, stress, alcohol, drugs & cigarettes.

But the fact still remains that doctors are overpaid. Not all but so many doctors are so damn greedy & money was the only reason they chose this profession.

Nothing wrong with wanting money but only cowards who don't have the courage to go into business, finance or wall street chose to go the safe route of artificially high salaries of MD's.

One doctor I know did $10,000,000 million dollar insurance billing fraud. What Patrick is saying here is not wrong or inaccurate.

Another doctor I know did $2,000,000 million dollar insurance billing fraud. He is in prison right now. Went to prison in 2009 and will be spending 5 years behind bars.

The guy that did $2 million dollar fraud had $30 million dollars of legitimate made money yet was so greedy that he was willing risk his medical license for a measly $2 million when he already had $30 million in assets.

I have seen a lot of corruption, greed and a complete lack of care towards the actual patients. It's as just as much about the bottom line as it is for realtors.

In fact, realtors are better people. They just rob you financially. But "doctors", they rob your health and your money at the same time.

I'm sorry but I have a very low opinion of the majority of doctors and even those aspiring to be as most of them just go into it for the money which is not as much as it was anymore and the salaries are beginning to fall year by year.

just wait till you guys are forced to buy insurance by ObamaCare in 2014...fun! ;)

jaz5 says

just wait till you guys are forced to buy insurance by ObamaCare in 2014...fun! ;)

Leading indicators are that's not gonna happen. Obamacare is the most unpopular piece of Federal legislation since Prohibition and we all know what happened to that. The courts (especially Federal courts) supposedly don't pay attention to public opinion but people who've been around awhile know better. If Roberts and the Boyz don't shoot this in the head with a .45 caliber pistol, I'll be very surprised.

Patrick, you should call your doctor's office, tell them what happened and ask them to re-code your visit. Most of the time they will actually do it. I have successfully done this twice.
If they refuse, call your insurance company and tell them the same thing. Sometimes they can get it changed for you. As bizarre as this all sounds, I was told how to do this by some random person answering phones at my health insurance company. They told me that they do this often. It can take many phone calls, though.
The funny thing is that one of the providers tried to accuse me of requesting that they commit insurance fraud for me, but I had to remind them that it was the insurance company who told me to do this, and that they were the ones writing the check.
I, too, hate the whole health insurance system scam. You shouldn't have to know a secret method to be billed correctly! Good luck, take care.

Thanks! I will try to get them to re-code it to be what I actually made the appointment for.

You gotta play the game. Basically, you tell him that you can pay them the $320 but, you'll have to do it in $10 increments because you are in debt right now. Then you offer him $50 on the spot as full payment. Usually, they take it cuz he wouldn't even get that much from the insurance. Many doctors these days are conmen trying to bilk every last cent out of insurance companies and patients alike. 80% of the time, he'd never even see close to the $329 he's looking to get from you.

pedro3000 says

I am all about spewing out your anger and venom in the form of subjective negativity about whatever topic you desire (I think it is quite healthy to externalize it that way) but it was an eye opener to see how passionate some folks get about topics that they don't know much about- I fear that the uninitiated might be misinformed by it.
When I initially came onto Patrick.net it was to learn about the bear market, and I think it did it's job. I knew really nothing, and had bought a house at the peak. Mostly through the links, and some of the posts, I gained a decent understanding of the housing market. I can now smell the trolls and uneducated with regards to housing topics. Obviously I can also recognize those who are speaking about healthcare and not making any sense.

Well said, Patrick.net was correct 5 years ago but has become crazy negative rants by the banking guy and others like him.
I wonder what he does for work (perhaps unemployed due to personality issues?)

cw says

but has become crazy negative rants by the banking guy and others like him.
I wonder what he does for work (perhaps unemployed due to personality issues?)

I own a business. You peasants always concern yourself with other people's employement or lack of. Worry about yourself.

And giving personal insults doesn't do nothing except show you can't give a rebuttal to someone's opinions.

cw says

crazy negative rants

No. Just reality.