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What it will take to get off fossil fuels.


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2012 Mar 28, 10:40am   21,918 views  52 comments

by freak80   ➕follow (1)   💰tip   ignore  

The following website shows what it would take to get off of fossil fuels with current technology:
http://www.withouthotair.com/

The analysis is for Great Britain, but a similar analysis could be done for any country.

I think it's good enough to warrant it's own thread.

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41   ArtimusMaxtor   2012 Apr 10, 5:56am  

Where no food grows

42   ArtimusMaxtor   2012 Apr 10, 6:02am  

Self sufficency just isn't a concept that is grasped. If I taught that in school instead of useless things or the basics needed to run the masters empire. You would not be going to work. For anyone. Farmer Brown is way to simplistic. I'm talking about all you need. Sitting back at night swilling your favorite alcoholic beverage. Thinking soup kitchen what fucking soup kitchen? Boss who in the hell is my boss? Never having to fear. Or worry about what you said or did to someone ever. I'm going fishing tommorow what about you? Day after that who cares. Next week I don't give a fuck. Bite my cheese Buffett. Eat my doggies muffins Rockefeller. I'm still here. See. Thats just fine for ole Artimus. Look at what hes got. Thats what I'm trying to tell you day in and day out you have the same things. If you open your eyes and use some reason you will get it. Another words. If I got it good so do you.

Another words if I inundated you with self-sufficency like they bombard you with their crap night after night day after day. There would be nothing to carp about. You would have every damn thing you need that can't be taken from you. No one could call you down. They will never teach you self-sufficency it is not in their best interests.

43   Vicente   2012 Apr 10, 6:11am  

ArtimusMaxtor says

Another words if I inundated you with self-sufficency like they bombard you with their crap night after night day after day. There would be nothing to carp about. You would have every damn thing you need that can't be taken from you. No one could call you down.

Lots of farmers found themselves on the ropes, evicted, or at the very least just barely scraping by during the Great Depresssion. One bad season and suddenly you're out begging for aid. Being able to grow your own food doesn't automatically make you entirely self-sufficient and immune to what's going on in society. I grew up with "survivalists" all around me, and I can tell you that none of them are the islands of economic freedom that they think they are either.

44   ArtimusMaxtor   2012 Apr 10, 6:16am  

See there it is didn't have a damn thing to do with that war or everything they were doing back then did it cause and effect. Same thing going on today. (I got over my snit). The earth reacts. It really does. Nothing like that has happened since. So your taking a few years out of thousands of years and taking a stand on that. Dosen't make sense.

Also I didn't say a thing about growing food for other people or being a commerical farmer or even being a farmer. A commercial farmer damn well bows and scrapes and is not much better off than someone that works for someone else in a city. I damn well didn't say anything about borrowing cash. Survivalist is a straw man the people that lend cash and need labor use really well and make fun of. Thats the first place they might go. Also its kind of stereotypical of most people that aren't suvivalists that do for themselves.

I said self sufficent. If that means borrowing to you. Please read closer. One more time only a sucker would pay 30 years on a house that took only 3 months to build. All peoples skills mostly especially in the city involve doing for other people and working for other people. The dust bowl lasted once again for 5 years over 70 years ago and before that nothing. So thats not sound judgement to fear about something like that nor survivalists when most all of them aren't. There are in fact people all over the world that are self-sufficent. I guess you could fear the survivalists and the dust bowl in Brazil you could go looking for that if you want.

45   joshuatrio   2012 Apr 10, 6:18am  

Vicente says

Rain or shine -- unfortunately today was rain. But still better than waiting for the bus. Only two miles though. JT, I agree with your figures -- that bike is helping fund my Roth IRA.

Nice ! One thing I love about riding, is that I'm on the road as the sun is peaking over the mountains. It's awesome - you get great views. The other cool time to ride is before daylight savings time, when it's pitch black out - you get to ride under a canopy of stars. Not many cars on the road at 6:45am. Can't beat it.

It was so nice yesterday afternoon that I took the long way home and biked an extra 3-5 miles just so I could ride by the beach and check the surf.

Vicente says

Yep. My daily driver:

Very nice ride. I'm currently on a Specialized Sirrus. Got a killer deal on it from a seller on CL. Ended up bartering for it, so it didn't come out of pocket.

Vicente says

Although my example has a few mods over the base model shown above. Added slightly raised handlebars for more upright seating, ergonomic grips, rear rack for panniers, and a few other things. 5 miles each way to work every day, get my workout right there. It's a worst-case commute for my little burg as our rental house & my job are at the farthest extremes of town, all my other trips are generally shorter.

I don't do the pannier thing - straight up backpack. Not sure how I feel about all the weight going over the rear wheel. Prefer it on the back.

46   Vicente   2012 Apr 10, 6:27am  

joshuatrio says

I don't do the pannier thing - straight up backpack. Not sure how I feel about all the weight going over the rear wheel. Prefer it on the back.

I did briefly do the old milk-crate hack:

And it was a real pain if I loaded anything heavy in there just very unstable to ride. Exactly the problem you are thinking of. After consulting and trying out a few setups, now I use one or two of these Bontrager "grocery bags".

They click onto the sides of the rear rack. Keeps out a light drizzle and easy to lift off by the handles and use it for shopping. Hanging the weight down closer to the hub makes all the difference. Even with only one, ordinarily I don't feel any effect from it at all. I suppose if I loaded a single side with dumbbells I'd feel it pulling but I'd never do that. Ditching the backpack is easy on my back and far cooler of a ride in warm weather. Try it out you'll be surprised!

I liked the Brompton bag even better, they had a click point on the front of the frame so you clip on the bag and it stays facing straight forward it does not turn. Unlike that ridiculous "schoolteacher" basket we've all seen which is clipped to the handlebars ad wants to pull in the direction of the turn.

47   EBGuy   2012 Apr 10, 7:08am  

I bungee cord a 'six pack' cooler to the rear rack to transport lunches (and store rain gear). It works surprisingly well.

48   joshuatrio   2012 Apr 10, 8:47am  

Ever heard of SCR (Silly Commuter Racing)? Something a co-worker of mine and I found really funny.

For all the bike commuters:

http://www.itsnotarace.org/

"Silly Commuting Race - The Rules"

The Game:
"Dropping / Pulling anyone higher in the Food Chain Number makes you stronger and more attractive to burds*. Getting dropped / trying to keep up with anyone lower means your soul hires a kudos remover to lower your self worth. If you scalp someone you have to maintain or extend your lead for such a time as to have the dude you passed admit to themself "I was done". Nipping by, then running into a side road / hiding in traffic won't wash, Be honest with yourself. *Not strictly true

Rules:
1/ No Dangerous Manoeuvres (Don’t be a danger to any other road users or yourself) Falling off causes pain to you and others around you, don’t do it! (oh and you loose yer points)
2/ Don’t ride like a c0ck, we’re all just trying to get somewhere!
3/ No passing at Lights/Junction/Crossings, if you do, it doesn’t count
4/ All passing on open road ONLY. Filtering in traffic is null and void (you know whether you’ve dropped someone fairly, and haven’t turned off straight afterwards)
5/ Pavement passes, either you or the target is void
6/ Show no pain, unless, like me your face is just like that

FOOD CHAIN NUMBERS:
1. Scooters
2. Roadies with shaved legs - like girls *
3. Proper rapid Single speed (real men, messengers, tarty shiny fixies) *
4. Roadies with hairy legs - like men *
5. Faux Single Speeds (fakengers, dirty/functional bikes, silly egg beater gear) *
6. Touring Bikes (Mud Guards) *
7. "Fast Hybrids" *
8. MTBs on Skinnies *
9. MTBs on Nobbies
10. Bromptons / collapsing bikes
11. MTB full sus on Nobbies
12. Shoppers
13. Shoppers wicker baskets
14. Electric bikes
* Pedal Adjustment +1
• ONLY FCN 2-5 gain points for overtaking the same FCN and Higher Chainers
• Recumbents, Tandems and Segways are worth +2 points as a rare bonus
• Sinclair C5 +20 points as a hens teeth bonus

FCN Adjusters:

CLOTHING:
None:+3
Non-Cycling: +2
Baggies: +1
Lycra: 0
Team Kit: -1
TDF Jersey: -2

BAGGAGE:
Panniers: +1
Back Pack/Courier: 0
Nothing: -1

HEAD GEAR:
Face Mask +1
Helmets/Nothing/Sunglasses: 0
Bike Caps / Wrap arounds: -1

ACCESSORIES:
Herman's Safety Wing" (orange plastic lolly-pop): +2
Trailer:+2
Beard: +1
Child seat (each): +1
Power meter: -1
Aerobars: -1
Coloured tyres -1

PEDALS (If you can identify) FCN2-8 see note above:
Flats: +1
Toe Clips: 0
Evidently Clipless/spds (cycling shoes): -1

If it sounds complex Fury21 has come up with a FCN Calculator ...If you get confused on the road, think of it this way if you drop anyone who looks faster that you +1. If you get dropped by anyone that looks slower than you -1..Couldn't be simpler! You'll also get to work, or get home faster...Or your subscription money back...Ps it's free to join and take part, but negative totals should make cheques on your soul out to: Greg T c/o Bike Radar

Further Updates on the Facebook Group"

49   FunTime   2012 Apr 10, 9:46am  

tts says

We just have to go nuclear.

Doesn't that trade one energy source/waste problem for another? What do we do with nuclear waste? We bury it now. Will that work long-term? Launch it into space?

50   tts   2012 Apr 10, 12:22pm  

FunTime says

Doesn't that trade one energy source/waste problem for another? What do we do with nuclear waste? We bury it now. Will that work long-term? Launch it into space?

Pretty much anything we do is trading one energy source/waste problem for another, yes even with solar or wind. Each PVC panel results in hundreds of tons of toxic waste (mostly in the form of contaminated water either during production or mining for materials) as a by product for instance. Wind power requires tons of batteries for load balancing and each one of those results huge amounts of toxic waste too even with reprocessing.

No energy source will be perfect. You have to (literally) pick your poison.

I like nuclear since a)we've got at least a hundred years before we run into fuel supply issues with known stock piles of uranium, b)when reprocessed the amount of waste requiring long term storage and disposal is miniscule (something like a few tons worth per year for dozens of reactors), and c)some nuclear reactor designs can use thorium as a fuel instead of uranium or plutonium which we have vast amounts more of. There is some truly incredible long term potential there if thorium is considered too, certainly hundreds more years at a minimum. And d)we already know how to build good nuclear reactors that are much safer than what was made back in the 60's or 70's, its a solution that can be implemented now or soon and we know it'll work.

Wind and solar require lots more fundamental work to be made practical as a major source of energy, much less to power nearly the entire country and get us off coal, oil, or nuclear power altogether. Discovery doesn't work on a time table and isn't predictable regardless of how much money or resources you throw at it so the problems with solar and wind could be solved tomorrow...or 50 years from now...or never.

We just plain don't know.

51   freak80   2012 Apr 11, 1:19am  

That's just it. Almost every human activity has some negative impact on the environment. I guess the trick is to find the energy source with the best benefit-to-impact ratio.

I can't help but be "pro nuclear" for the following reasons:
1) a lot of CO2 comes from electricity generation, and switching from fossil fuel plants to nuclear plants won't affect anyone's lifestyle. I'm guessing that Nuclear NIMBYism is less of an obstacle than convincing Americans to give up their beloved automobiles.
2) the technology is proven

That doesn't mean every location should have nuclear plants: think places prone to earthquakes and tsunamis. In those areas it's probably best to stick with the traditional fuels.

52   Michinaga   2012 Apr 13, 4:51am  

joshuatrio says

Anyone use a bicycle as their primary means of transportation? I've been doing it for almost a year now and really enjoy it. I know it's not for everyone, but it saves a ton of money each month - and bikes are cheap/easy to maintain.

Count me in! I just looked at my bike stats for last year: went to work by bicycle every day except three (stupid rainstorms!); just over 8000 km in total; was on the bicycle in some form on 332 of the 365 days in the year.

My commute takes about 30-35 minutes by bike and about 20-25 by car. It's about 18 miles round trip. It's pretty safe, great exercise, lowered my blood pressure 20 points and lost my love handles. Wife loves it.

Mine is 50-55 minutes out (lots of cars on the road; can't go too fast and get sweaty before work) and 35-40 minutes in (no cars anywhere and I can go as fast as I like). Only 16 miles (26 km) round trip.

My job finishes early in the morning before the trains start running, so while my company officially disapproves, it sure beats standing around at the station waiting for an hour. The sun comes up early here, but nobody is out doing anything, so at 5 AM I have the roads to myself; it's great.

The only problem is if some buffoon punches a hole in my tire while I'm at work, or if I get a flat on the road at that odd hour. There are no shops open, and I don't have the maintenance equipment I've got at home, so I'm stuck walking the rest of the way if that happens!

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