patrick.net

uomo_senza_nome says

If I were to say some big channel actually speaks closer to truth, that would be RT. (Russia Today).

http://www.youtube.com/embed/OQkXv08uL5c

RT: Russia's answer to Fox News. According to Al-Jazeera. Ain't this fun?

uomo_senza_nome says (quoting George Carlin)

My first rule: I don't believe anything that the Government tells me. And neither do I believe anything I'm told by the media, who, in the case of the Gulf War, functioned as little more than unpaid employees of the Defense Department, and who, most of the time, operate as unofficial public relations agency for the government and industry.
I don't believe in any of them. And I have to tell you, folks, I don't really believe very much in my country either. I don't get all choked up about yellow ribbons and American flags. I see them as symbols, and I leave them to the symbol-minded.

Carlin had the same view I've evolved into over time.

Here's Chomsky on Manufacturing Consent (mainstream media propaganda, intentional or not):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5631882395226827730

uomo_senza_nome says

LOL I'm not surprised. Lauren Lyster's Capital Account show is quite educative IMHO. Recently she had Bill Black. She has also interviewed Reggie Middleton, Yves Smith, Janet Tavakoli, Edward Harrison - all very good analysts, but hardly ever appear in MSM.

Yeah, excellent stuff.

US MSM 'experts': Barry "Double Dipper" McCaffrey, David Gergen, Erin Brunett, Arthur Laffer, John Fund, Krauthammer, Cokey Kudlow, etc.

RT is hated because they have real guests who give a real diverse range of opinion, not just the usual Optimate line.

Auntiegrav says

He could be pointing out an actual phenomena. News programs exist to sell cars.

He was actually constructing a logical argument to prove that FOX News tells out relevant news stories while others don't. I don't think that's true.

I hate all mainstream news media, they are all propaganda. So my point is -- don't even bother defending them, because in your own words: "they sell cars".

Selling cars is not journalism it is manufacturing consent, IMHO.

Auntiegrav says

Actually, the bias comes from diversity and sustainability and random moderation.

Ah, much more nuanced Auntiegrav. Thanks! :)

Honest Abe says

What caused the housing bubble was: ... and (2) Carter's Community Investment Act, aided, abetted and exacerbated by Clinton to completely gut lending requirements and standards.

If this is the cause of the housing bubble, then how does it explain the following facts:

1) The UK housing bubble
2) The Australian housing bubble
3) The Canadian housing bubble
4) The Spanish housing bubble
5) The Greek housing bubble
6) The Fact that Deutche bank ended up as the largest landowner in Cleveland

How do these have anything to do with Community Investment Act? I don't disagree that government(s) were a significant problem, but this one detail, doesn't seems to have any positive or negative correlation to the problem. I might suggest you evaluate your own biases. I suggest the following three might be blinding you

A) You hate democrats and think everything is their fault
B) Nothing the government can do is good
C) You believe the poor and colored folks are the cause of America's problems.

Once you accept your biases, it will help you understand the world better.

P.S. I can agree that interest rates were probably part of the problem. But notice just part of the problem, there were other factors that complicated things.

oliverks1 says

I might suggest you evaluate your own biases.

Nailed it there, not just the problem with Honest Abe, with many others as well.

It is apparently very hard to suspend these biases for a minute and actually think.

We've seen a few shifts of the media in the past few decades

1) News reports have been cut down. Sound bites..you name it. Commercials are even smaller these days. No one airs a one minute commercial. These days a 30 second or even a 15 one is sold

2) International reporting post 2005ish has been dramatically cut. If something happens in the middle east these days they'll report about Israel from London...I'm freaking serious!

3) Nearly everything is dumbed down. TV news (especially network) is on a 6th grade reading level. Maybe the McCloughlin group would higher...Firing Line I'd say was higher..the best bet today would be Intelligence Squared which is on bloomberg sometimes

4) Is there a bias? Of course there is. First there is a bias that they won't bit the hand that feeds them. NBC never reported anything bad about GE when they were owned by them
http://www.youtube.com/embed/yHRMozyOVtk

4) We've in an environment where everyone wants to speak but no one wants to listen. On any given second at least 70 videos are uploaded to youtube.

I remember Nader said once that we really don't get local news anymore. A 30 minute block has say 8 minutes of commercials. The weather reported with a teaser, there's sports and then factor in anything violent that happened that day and there's really hardly anything. News networks repeat the same local news over but switch anchors..A network affiliate now repeats the same news for maybe 25-33% of what it airs every weekday.

here's an example of how some reporting has changed
http://www.youtube.com/embed/jkqaURe0ECQ
ABC News did a great job in looking at both sides and gave ample time. These days that's impossible..there's no way that can be done now.

Cloud says

You could bring media bias and/or liberal hypocriscy on a silver platter

I would be very interested in seeing data sets/studies that support the idea of a liberal media bias.

When I have looked into it in the past all studies on the topic show a pretty steady conservative bias in the media. NPR seems to be the closest to an unbiased moderate news source, and even it has been shown to have a slight conservative bias.

But, please if you have a study that "proves" a liberal media bias I would love to see their data and methodology!

Thanks in advance.

Cloud says

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/mar/18/right-underrepresented-in-presss-diversity/

Yeah I know I know .... "Pew Research is bullshit." It's just like Fox News.

Nothing in that link that indicates bias. I does not matter how individual's in a media organization identify themselves. I would be curious to see how the self-reporting demographics of FOX "news" if on a similar poll. I would not be surprised if many ranked themselves as independent or moderate.

What is the overall story output of a media organization?

Cloud says

Shall we start with Dan Rather and the phoney documents? [etc...]

In a sea of information there are plenty of individual examples of bias. This is what an organization like FOX latches onto, what they don't look at is the big picture.

Even with individual examples you cited when the messages of media organizations are looked at in their entirety it has never balanced to show a "liberal bias".

What I am looking for is not anecdotal evidence, but a comprehensive study that looks at the big picture. I don't want just one card, but I want to look at what is in the entire 9-deck boot.

I do however appreciate you response.

oliverks1 says

How do these have anything to do with Community Investment Act?

Don't underestimate how EVIL Carter and Clinton truly are. It's a massive conspiracy engineered to give Habitat for Humanity more business.

First of all, even the creators of the "liberal bias" myth, Kristol et al., admitted that it was all a ruse to work the refs. There is no liberal bias.

Even if you watch the (obviously and openly) liberal hosts on MSNBC, you'll notice some stark differences: facts and nuance.

You'll hear them describe Obama's problem with the left flank, and why. You'll hear complaints about how too little was done on X and how he is too cozy with Y.

I watch Faux news; it really is operating more on a brain-stem/id level, whereas the Center-Democratic leaning outlets appeal to logic.

Keep in mind that faux news is not necessarily "conservative" but an arm of the GOP establishment. I don't recall them criticizing Medicare part D, or march to the Iraq war. What happened to conservatives decrying the US as "policemen of the world", for example?

There is no logic, only emotion. (Excepting Chris Wallace sometimes, and Brett Baier, sometimes)

Facts are just words one presents as proof for their side of the argument. Only the gullible take "Facts" undisputed.

CaptainShuddup says

Facts are just words one presents as proof for their side of the argument. Only the gullible take "Facts" undisputed.

Don't you see the inherent disdain for the facts in your statement? Facts are real, provable, logical. A fact is that Obama has lowered taxes tremendously and extended the Bush Tax cuts. A fact is that the GOP has decided that that did not work to stimulate the economy.

The fact is they lack coherence.

CL says

Facts are real, provable, logical.

Facts are only facts if both parties understand the parameters. And facts are only facts then as determined by those parameters.

For a christian Fundamentalist a fact would be... "You can not go to heaven unless you accept Jesus Christ in your heart..."

A fact for California Liberal circa 1979...
"Ozone is creating a hole in the atmosphere and we will experience an ice age by 2010." and then there's... "Blue Whales will be extinct by 2012"

My point is, you folks like to present theories and beliefs as "Facts" when they most certainly are not.

But that's all vague now isn't it? I tell you what give me a Fact, and we'll see just how concrete it is. Is it a fact or is it position, one would take? There is a difference, you just might like to pretend there is no distinction.

CL says

A fact is that Obama has lowered taxes tremendously and extended the Bush Tax cuts.

REALLY!? That's a "FACT"?

So I don't have to pay that extra 2K in taxes this year, because you say Obama lowered taxes "tremendously"? And what about Gas, Beer, Cigs, Snacks, and Soda taxes, those don't count as taxes in your demented obtuse little world?

I want to thank you, thank you for going big, and illustrating my point.
You never disappoint, what a Lutz!

CaptainShuddup says

For a christian Fundamentalist a fact would be... "You can not go to heaven unless you accept Jesus Christ in your heart..."

In your example, this is not a fact, but a belief. Hence the large number of people who can rightly believe otherwise and be disproven.

A fact: There are over 2 billion Christians in the world.

If that fact is changed or disproven as new information is made available, the objective person replaces that fact with an updated fact.

Emotions are real, but the way they shape your worldview are interpretation.

CaptainShuddup says

CL says

A fact is that Obama has lowered taxes tremendously and extended the Bush Tax cuts.

REALLY!? That's a "FACT"?

So I don't have to pay that extra 2K in taxes this year, because you say Obama lowered taxes "tremendously"? And what about Gas, Beer, Cigs, Snacks, and Soda taxes, those don't count as taxes in your demented obtuse little world?

I want to thank you, thank you for going big, and illustrating my point.

You never disappoint, what a Lutz!

Did Obama raise Gas Taxes, Excise Taxes on Beer, snacks or soda? WTF are you talking about?

Demented, indeed!

CL says

Keep in mind that faux news is not necessarily "conservative" but an arm of the GOP establishment. I don't recall them criticizing Medicare part D, or march to the Iraq war. What happened to conservatives decrying the US as "policemen of the world", for example?

LOL very true. That's why they're called neo-conservatives, meaning total hypocrites.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/UXoNE14U_zM

CL says

whereas the Center-Democratic leaning outlets appeal to logic.

Can you name those "outlets" that appeal to logic.

Obama Sucks Ass = Fact!

TPB, that's you right ?

For those who are not Patriots. Who are not honorable... do not click on the link below, because it will not upset you.

However, if you believe in JUSTICE for one and for ALL, then please do click on it. IT'S OFFICIAL AND GAINING A SOLID RESPONSE.

Sheriff Joe is going after the forger and is doing it officially.

solver says

For those who are not Patriots. Who are not honorable... do not click on the link below, because it will not upset you.

However, if you believe in JUSTICE for one and for ALL, then please do click on it. IT'S OFFICIAL AND GAINING A SOLID RESPONSE.

Sheriff Joe is going after the forger and is doing it officially.

It's not that I'm not honorable and not a conservative.

It's that I have common sense, and Obama wouldn't be there with all of his warts and air of illegitimacy if someone REALLY high up didn't want it.

He was put there to do the bailouts. He's an errand boy with a Harvard Law degree. He was that way from the start. Why do you think he's not putting up more of a fight for Obamacare? He's not fighting that hard, really.

I agree, but that doesn't make it right. You and I among ALL others are held tight on the leash and held accountable for our misappropriated pennies, nickels, dimes and dollars, not to include the traffic laws and minor to petty civil crimes... and so should everyone else, despite how deep in the rabbit hole they really are.

If there's a forger out there who has perpetrated this crime, then they should be held accountable equally like us. The same goes for the Corzine and others who were able to steal billions and simply allowed to walk with their GET OUT OF JAIL CARD.

The ultimate point is that we're a beacon of hope, freedom, prosperity among others in America and much of that used to be based on honor, integrity, freedom, constitutional rights and now many of us are just allowing the higher powers to be able to get away with anything that they want.

We're not owned. We're a free people in AMERICA and unless we take a stand and draw a line in the sand saying that we will not allow our rights to be openly trampled on, they will continue to push and take them away and in very latent ways.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/nbc-launches-internal-investigation-over-trayvon-martin-case

Well if that isn't a form of a bias I don't know what is. How can you edit out what was on a 911 call and say it is OK.

A simple petition to a cable co can cause nbc channels to be dropped in many local areas.

I think zimmerman should be arrested and charged. But this isn't the first time that nbc has selectively cut out parts of what really happened to suit some other purpose. Back in the 90's whdh asked the then senator ted kennedy what he thought about a recent bombing in n. ireland. He said that it "could" have been the IRA although....cut..that's all the network needed to hear, no need to hear other possibilities.

I have cloud and TPB on "ignore" because I can get the exact same "inforamtion" from AM radio. No need to hear the same stuff on PatNet.

Cloud says

Here you go Leo. As I said even the most ardent partisan reporters and editor understand why you need 2 newspapers in any city. The most honest will tell you those they work for vote Democrat and tend to be liberal.

Leo, did you hear about RFK Jr. getting 1.5 billion from the DOE for his failed green company while his partner is working at the Department of Energy ? It is a technique called omission and the media uses it all the time.

And yet the overall message from 99% of media has a conservative bias.

Interesting... so what you are saying is that you would prefer if mainstream media organizations had an even stronger conservative bias. OK, to each their own I suppose.

I for one prefer my news to carry the lowest level of bias as possible, but that is just me.

Cloud says

Here is a good reason why we need shitty websites like Newsbusters and Evil Fox News.

So we need shitty propaganda outlets, who mostly report lies, in order to balance out the only somewhat conservative bias in the reporting of the mainstream media?

rootvg says

Journalism here is skewed to the left because that's what people in this area want to hear.
Journalism in north Texas is skewed to the right because that's what people there want to hear.
It's a business.

Well put.