patrick.net

edvard2 says

tatupu70 says

Yes and no. If you own your home, you eliminate a major retirement expense. That definitely creates wealth.

Maybe. If you had taken the same money spent on a house and instead stuck it in stocks you would actually be better off... to pay for your future old folks home- where we'll all wind up anyway.

Yes because stocks were such a great investment this decade.

tatupu70 says

Funny thing--usually when your rent goes up, the rent is rising everywhere.

usually he says. prove it smarty. not at all true. you are making an ASSumption.

Bigsby says

Take mine. Put a shirt on.

i am wearing the shirt God stitched up for me. None better buster. be so uptight

SubOink says

Rents fall there when rents are rising everywhere else. It's a desert thing.

i am property manager with 14 properties in California, Louisiana and Texas. Rents do not follow the continuous upward path like what you think. Staiblity is what I am after. You tell yourself that t o make yourself feel good about a dumb purchase. I do it to pal., we all do it oinker but we dont all take to hollering about it.

Victorville is special

Los Angeles Owner says

hat definitely creates wealth.

not unless you a property manager like your big brother Jody

Mark D says

lol @this thread

It is fun to keep it alive...LOL

JodyChunder says

usually he says. prove it smarty. not at all true. you are making an ASSumption.

You want me to prove the concept of inflation? Really?

Google median rent and I think you'll find many sources that show that rent increases are pretty much in line with inflation.

if you really want to brag. Post your purchase price and your location. Come back regularly to gloat.

show us the money.. everything else is just blah blah blah same old rehashed arguments I've heard from Realtors the last ten years.

Serpentor says

if you really want to brag. Post your purchase price and your location. Come back regularly to gloat.

show us the money.. everything else is just blah blah blah same old rehashed arguments I've heard from Realtors the last ten years.

Yes, I am going to post my personal details on a public site on the internet. Would you like a bank account number, social security with that too? After all, I could just find some house and claim its mine. Would that make you feel better? Why don't you start with your personal data first?

You can't look up zillow/trulia/redfin etc yourself? I am not some unique case. That's kind of my whole point. I found a good deal, just like the many others there are out there.

Also, nobody's is bragging. If you read my topic then you will see that I am simply ANSWERING to the crap I was told about a year ago when we bought.

Nice try buddy.

tatupu70 says

ou want me to prove the concept of inflation? Really?

Google median rent and I think you'll find many sources that show that rent increases are pretty much in line with inflation.

dear i know everything: you are trying to kid me. inflation is when there is more $$$ circulating. nothing to do with general rent increases. and also rental rates rates are like real estate sales in that it is REGIONAL of course. I did google median rent and what i found was that rent went DOWN in 2008 and 2009 in many palaces. I did not have to lower the rent on any of my properties BUT I did go 2 years with out any kind of increases on my two proerpties in TEXAS. That is not a drop persay but it is in a way because my expenses on those properties did not stay static including a a new septic on one. $$$.

SubOink says

Yes, I am going to post my personal details on a public site on the internet.

if you worried just give him the address of teh nearest Carls Jr. should be close enough.

JodyChunder says

inflation is when there is more $$$ circulating. nothing to do with general rent increases

You're wrong, but it doesn't really matter. Again--I can't believe you are even arguing this. Look at rental rates over the last 30 years rather than 1 or 2 random years during the worst recession since the Great Depression.

If you want to claim that rents don't generally go up with inflation, have at it. You don't look like the brightest bulb...

tatupu70 says

1 or 2 random years during the worst recession since the Great Depression.

If you want to claim that rents don't generally go up with inflation, have at it. You don't look like the brightest bulb...

yes you would have to go and make it hateful with a nasty comment. I should have known with a squirrel like your self that it would go that way, I may not look rightt to you but I am right on inflation. look it up. you are not talking infaltion you are talking FLUCTUATION in supply and demand numb nuts.

hey tatupu70: how can I post a link on here?

JodyChunder says

yes you would have to go and make it hateful with a nasty comment. I should have known with a squirrel like your self that it would go that way, I may not look rightt to you but I am right on inflation. look it up. you are not talking infaltion you are talking FLUCTUATION in supply and demand numb nuts.

My apologies. The bulb comment was uncalled for.

"In economics, inflation is a rise in the general level of prices of goods and services in an economy over a period of time.[1] When the general price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services" --wiki

http://www.investorwords.com/2452/inflation.html

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inflation.asp#axzz1hqKZ5JjN

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inflation

http://www.economicshelp.org/macroeconomics/inflation/definition.html

Shall I continue? Increases in money supply will usually cause inflation, but aren't the definition of inflation.

SubOink says

Yes, I am going to post my personal details on a public site on the internet. Would you like a bank account number, social security with that too? After all, I could just find some house and claim its mine. Would that make you feel better? Why don't you start with your personal data first?

You can't look up zillow/trulia/redfin etc yourself? I am not some unique case. That's kind of my whole point. I found a good deal, just like the many others there are out there.

Also, nobody's is bragging. If you read my topic then you will see that I am simply ANSWERING to the crap I was told about a year ago when we bought.

Nice try buddy.

it sure sounds like bragging to me and many people here, with your condescending tone and name calling.

Like others said, this is a very bizarre time to be taking a victory lap with artificially low rates, unprecedented government meddling, and artificially constrained supply (shadow inventory).

nobody is asking you to post your personal information. just post when you bought, the city you brought in, and the price you brought at.

national data still shows prices falling, its easy to claim that your neighborhood is still gaining if you don't specify where you live.

JodyChunder for the love of GOD please change your profile pic. please see Clara or Katy Perry for profile pic suggestions.

Serpentor says

nobody is asking you to post your personal information. just post when you bought, the city you brought in, and the price you brought at.

I posted all that info back when we bought. And this topic was directed to all of the haters, gloom n doomers from that time. Of course, none of those guys are around anymore...classic.

But here is a summary: I used to rent for X amount of $. Now, my mortgage is X Amount - $280/month. I now live in a much bigger house than the one we rented, huge backyard + pool. Rent would be a lot more if I rented my own house. Best decision ever. Do I care if my house has (on paper) lost a few bucks since I bought? No. I don't. Because I am still paying less money to live every month plus the benefit of enjoying your own house instead of dealing with a landlord.

Serpentor says

t sure sounds like bragging to me and many people here, with your condescending tone and name calling.

That depends if you read it that way. Usually what happens is this. I come and report my experience and then the grouchers come out of the wood work and start with their ridiculous and offending responses. And then I am the one that is condescending...lol.

Serpentor says

national data still shows prices falling, its easy to claim that your neighborhood is still gaining if you don't specify where you live.

I am beginning to think that you don't really read what I write. WHERE, do I claim that prices are gaining??

Although they have been pretty flat here in Calabasas, Agoura Hills, Oak Park, Westlake Village. But you can look that up yourself. I get comp sales in the mail every week.

If you have 20% for downpayment and have a job and are interested in buying/or hate your renter house/landlord...I can only suggest to go look around what's out there. If you are a happy renter and rent a house/apartment you dig and like your landlord - why bother? If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Our case was the first one, hated the landlord, didn't like the house much and needed to get a bigger house because of a new baby that was on the way. Rents in these neighborhoods are very high. I had the downpay, and qualified with no issues for a very straight forward 30 fixed loan with our Bank. It was a no brainer. The fact that interest rates ended up getting slashed even further came as a surprise. I would have been ok just paying the inital mortgage payment that was in the ballpark of what rent used to be. After the refy, we are now saving 280 a month. That part is very nice and more than what we had hoped for.

I guess you take those facts as bragging. oh well...

Serpentor says

JodyChunder for the love of GOD please change your profile pic. please see Clara or Katy Perry for profile pic suggestions.

+1

LOL!!

Jody Chunder from down under...

SubOink says

Clara or Katy Perry

that is a old picture. sorry if you boys can not handle what a real man look like when he is relaxing a bit . you all to sensitive. and the joke is on you with that Clara. that gal is a Thailand TRANSEXUAL job. I been there and seen them and I know. Ha!

tatupu70 says

My apologies. The bulb comment was uncalled for.

"In economics, inflation is a rise in the general level of prices of goods and services in an economy over a period of time.[1] When the general price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services" --wiki

yes I also apologize. thing is I have been having a rotten time with bedbugs in two of my rentals and it is causing me to loose sleep and makes me ornery.

I am still making my way through your data links. Let me read them and I will respond. if I am wrong I will confess to as much. I am not a proud guy in that way.

Congrats Suboink. It sounds like you're happy with your purchase, don't regret your decision to buy and plan to be in the house for the long term. That's what it's all about. There is a HUGE difference between buying a home that you will live in for the foreseeable future and an "investment property".

Like Patrick, I foresaw the bubble in the USA market many years ago. I sold all my properties before the crash and even moved out of the USA.

After waiting on the sidelines many years, I bought a few months ago. I'm VERY happy with my decision. I didn't buy it as an "investment". I bought it as a home and shelter for my family. I plan to stay in the house for at least the next 15 years.

Since moving in we've done many renovations and personalized it exactly how we wanted it. We've done landscaping how we want and it's really the dream home for us. I don't regret the decision for a second. I really don't care what price Zillow says it's worth (although it's not a bad feeling to show the property worth over $130,000 from what we paid). But honestly I don't care what Zillow shows it's worth.

People have to evaluate their own personal situation but I don't feel like now is a terrible time to buy. It was several years ago but I think it's an OK time to buy if you're buying for the long term.

Even on an expensive house, depending on the area... When we were looking earlier this year in the areas we wanted, there wasn't much of anything GREAT on the market. There was a lot of crap but nothing too great.

I'm not sure why some people on this board get bitter at people that buy. I will also say that just as I saw many perma-bulls during the bubble, I'm seeing many permabears now.

Things don't move in straight line folks. Real estate isn't going to fall forever. You won't always catch the absolute highs and the absolute lows. Anyone pretending to always do so is deluding themselves.

Also, the feeling of owning a home free and clear of a mortgage is an amazing feeling. Especially those who are retired or will be retired soon. Sure there are some hassles of owning but I believe the benefits far outweigh the hassles and again, I sure as heck wouldn't want to head into the future (especially retirement) not having a place owned free and clear.

bubblesburst says

I really don't care what price Zillow says it's worth (although it's not a bad feeling to show the property worth over $130,000 from what we paid). But honestly I don't care what Zillow shows it's worth.

With all due respect, there is no chance of this in San Diego. Sorry.

bubblesburst says

I'm not sure why some people on this board get bitter at people that buy. I will also say that just as I saw many perma-bulls during the bubble, I'm seeing many permabears now.

Things don't move in straight line folks

this sounds like something you told yourself to make it feel better. prices are not falling in a strait line they are correcting slowly. if you really want to know what is going on it is people waiting for normalcy. not a bargain just normal unsensational prices. There are a lot of peopel that do not want this. I under stand that to. But do not do the typical I GOT RELIGION jive and start to pick on folks that are careful with there money.

JodyChunder says

bubblesburst says

I really don't care what price Zillow says it's worth (although it's not a bad feeling to show the property worth over $130,000 from what we paid). But honestly I don't care what Zillow shows it's worth.

With all due respect, there is no chance of this in San Diego. Sorry.

Huh??? I'm not sure if you read my post correctly. Indeed Zillow is showing a higher price than what I paid and it continues to go up on their website. Again I don't really care what price it shows but strange you're trying to imply I'm lying.

bubblesburst says

Huh??? I'm not sure if you read my post correctly. Indeed Zillow is showing a higher price than what I paid and it continues to go up on their website. Again I don't really care what price it shows but strange you're trying to imply I'm lying.

no sir. maybe just gullible. your house that you say you bought in 2011 did not appreciate by 130 thousand dollars. that is what i am saying. zillow is blowing smoke up your butt.

Yeah, I'm not saying it has appreciated by that much. To me I don't care what it shows it's worth. Like I said, I bought it for the long haul.

I CAN tell you that I wasn't impressed with the inventory when I was looking earlier this year. And All the homes that we seriously considered ALL sold. And this was in the $1 million range. There weren't many great houses that were move in ready in good zip codes in great school districts.

My main point is that some on this website act like house prices are going to fall another 30% and that just is NOT going to happen. I bought my house for 37% less than peak prices just a few short years ago and feel very comfortable buying now at these prices. I'm not saying prices can't fall a bit more because they certainly can. But I don't see them falling too much lower, at least where I live. I also take a good hard look at the rental market and it's very healthy here in San Diego and nice rentals are expensive here.

I'm not saying anyone needs to rush into buying as I think you'll have some good buying opportunities over the next year. However, if you see your dream house now...I reiterate it's a fine time to buy.

And to boot, to rent something for the same size, we'd be spending over $5,000 a month. I'm really happy with my decision to buy and love being a home owner. For us it definitely made sense buying now. I realize that isn't the case for everyone. But I agree with the OP when he says that probably he caught a lot of false crap last year for buying and people saying that he would regret it, prices would plummet, etc.

I've been VERY successful investing over the years. Like I said, the key thing is to realize you're NOT going to catch the absolute tops and absolute bottoms all the time.

bubblesburst says

I've been VERY successful investing over the years. Like I said, the key thing is to realize you're NOT going to catch the absolute tops and absolute bottoms all the time.

I hear what you are saying. I have to just say I disagree on one or two points of yours. For one I think house prices are still very very high. Now San Diego is a nice part of the country with a real nice climate but it was teh same deal a dozen years back as well when your gas and your food and your insurance bill and your health care and your electric and your sales tax were all several times cheaper than what they are now today. I was just looking at a receit I found in a book from 1997. I paid 93 cents for a gallon of gas for my lawn mower. I was recruiting for the National Guard in 1997 and we could not GET enough young men and women interested in enlisting. That is because employment was high, Clinton was in office and everyone was doing right pretty with $$$. Think on it. Interest rate does not explain it either so dont start.

now i say all this as a rich investor what owns 14 homes over three diff states.. six of them free and clear. what i mean by that is i am not arguing as a perma bear. i think there are some big cracks in the foundation and only a big old rug is whats been offered as a repair. and then another thinner rug so you dont feel the cracks so much. and then another rug and so on. in other words the foundation just keeps sinking but it feels like its less bad cause of that cushion. it is so thick under you feet that you could never belief that you got issues or that you hole house is fitting to cave in one day.

now let me say if you are happy then i can not argue happiness. happiness counts for something for damn sure. with women special. but words like happy and dream home got no place in the mind of a biz man like myself. i do not dream about houses but other things. that is where we are diff. For Example: if it were me and i really did think for one second that my house had gained even one half of 130 thousand I can tell you that baby would be on the block YESTERDAy no matter how happy I felt there!

Jody,

Sure you make some good points. Some I agree with. But I think therein lies the big difference. I'm also a businessman/investor. I own many properties in several different countries all paid for free and clear. But I think when you're buying a home to live in for the foreseeable future, you don't really look at it as doing business. At least I don't.

I've bought and sold many investment properties but when I made the decision to buy my home that I will raise my family in, "happy and dream home" definitely do factor into the equation.

Even if someone offered me $250,000 or more than what I paid for the house, I'd turn them down. Buying it wasn't a business decision....

I can agree with your points if it's an investment property. I do have several investment properties where I wasn't even listing it for sale and someone came along and made me an offer and it was too good to pass up.

Remember when you have young kids, school districts factor in on your decision to buy and you don't want to move every few years and uproot them from rental property to rental property, most people aren't going to move for small (or even significant profits).

When I buy investment/rental properties I buy with my head and keep my heart totally out of it. But when I'm buying a property where my kids will grow up. Definitely I'm buying with my head but definitely the heart as well. I think that is normal.

I agree there are still fundamental problems in the real estate market, the government has too much intervention and other things. However, from a pure ROI standpoint, investors are still cleaning up right now buying properties and turning around and renting them. I know many, many, many people that have purchased in the past year and making excellent ROI on the properties they purchased.

So even if values fall a bit more, they are making excellent cash flow on these rental properties. Other investments aren't paying anything and for those that don't want to go all in the stock market, buying cash flow properties now can make a lot of sense as others have pointed out on this and other threads.

I own many rental properties and I'm sure glad that I bought them. On some of them I paid a small fortune for but it doesn't matter to me. They are paid off and the income they are generating is much more than any safe investments out there now.

I totally agree with many that in previous years it didn't make sense. All I'm saying is now isn't a TERRIBLE time to buy as some say. Could it go down a bit more? Sure. But I'm still saying you're most likely not going to catch the absolute bottoms all the time.

bubblesburst says

I know many, many, many people that have purchased in the past year and making excellent ROI on the properties they purchased.

all good and fair points here. but this last one especially. the only thing what bothers a guy about this is the old HERD mentality thing. i know ten more property investors for every one i knew five year back. we will see how tha t plays out. but i am still buying properties across the South West. nothing outisde of the states tho as that is over my head. going by what you put down here i think you got a good head for investment bubblebust. you will cont to do well.

bubblesburst says

I really don't care what price Zillow says it's worth (although it's not a bad feeling to show the property worth over $130,000 from what we paid). But honestly I don't care what Zillow shows it's worth.

HA HA HA HA HA!!! Zillow. Oh, that's rich. Obviously you DO care, or you wouldn't have mentioned it. Har, I wouldn't bank on what Zillow says if I were you.

Congrats.

I am in the process of purchasing a house in Scottsdale right now. As bubblesburst had experienced during their home buying process, we also saw a lot of crap on the market. The homes that were nice, sold in less than a month. People here are buying up the good homes, the crap is hanging around. We looked for the better part of 7-8 months before finding something we loved at the right price.

It'll be a good feeling having it free and clear in 10 years though which is the option we went with for the mortgage.

gameisrigged says

bubblesburst says

I really don't care what price Zillow says it's worth (although it's not a bad feeling to show the property worth over $130,000 from what we paid). But honestly I don't care what Zillow shows it's worth.

HA HA HA HA HA!!! Zillow. Oh, that's rich. Obviously you DO care, or you wouldn't have mentioned it. Har, I wouldn't bank on what Zillow says if I were you.

Honestly I don't care what price Zillow shows. That's the God's honest truth. It can be ridiculous both on the upside and also the downside. But I would equate it to a situation where you don't really care what someone you don't know says about you. Most people would rather be called beautiful vs. being called ugly. Or someone walking up to you and saying "your kid is really beautiful" vs. "boy your kid is ugly". In the end it's just a stranger's opinion but most people still would have something positive vs. something negative said about them. LOL. I look at Zillow the same way. :)

JodyChunder says

bubblesburst says

I know many, many, many people that have purchased in the past year and making excellent ROI on the properties they purchased.

all good and fair points here. but this last one especially. the only thing what bothers a guy about this is the old HERD mentality thing. i know ten more property investors for every one i knew five year back. we will see how tha t plays out. but i am still buying properties across the South West. nothing outisde of the states tho as that is over my head. going by what you put down here i think you got a good head for investment bubblebust. you will cont to do well.

Jody, definitely I understand the Herd mentality thing. Absolutely there are many more investors vs. 5 years back. But that all stems from the fact that real estate in many areas (not all) is starting to make sense from an ROI standpoint. Which clearly wasn't the case 5 years ago. Also, you have to factor in the fact that banks/CD's are paying almost nothing right now and won't for at least the next 2 years. So more people are more motivated to look for alternative investments that will spin off healthy cash flow. Real estate is certainly one of those ways which it sounds like you clearly know. I'm sure you, just as I do, enjoy getting those rental checks each and every month.

Definitely I'm NOT saying all areas are great to buy properties or especially investment properties. I was only talking about buying a principle home where you plan to live for the foreseeable future and only buying what you can comfortably afford. As far as investment properties go, I still don't see it as a GREAT investment in many areas. San Diego where I live is one of them. While property values have fallen 35% or more from peak.... I'm not buying investment properties here yet.

Most of the investors I know are buying properties in lower end less desirable cities like Sacramento. I have one friend that is buying tons of properties including multi-unit buildings in Sacramento and making a fortune.

GUAB says

I am in the process of purchasing a house in Scottsdale right now. As bubblesburst had experienced during their home buying process, we also saw a lot of crap on the market. The homes that were nice, sold in less than a month. People here are buying up the good homes, the crap is hanging around. We looked for the better part of 7-8 months before finding something we loved at the right price.

It'll be a good feeling having it free and clear in 10 years though which is the option we went with for the mortgage.

Yeah GUAB we looked for a long time and it wasn't easy to find a great property that was move in ready in the areas we were looking in. Some of the crappy listings from when we looked are STILL on the market mostly because there are still some sellers out there that are still in denial. We actually saw some listings where people were asking more than peak level prices. It was quite comical to see that sort of thing.

But it was a real struggle to find an excellent house at the same we were looking at (5 bedrooms) in a great school district. Again, everything we looked is gone.

Once sellers start getting realistic on the prices, they move fairly quick. An example here:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/8282-Top-O-The-Morning-Way-92127/home/6481654

On the other end of the spectrum you have crazy sellers that are in denial.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/13483-Ginger-Glen-Rd-San-Diego-CA-92130/69020328_zpid/

Zillow doesn't count REOs or short sales. So there's a chance once we get back to a normal market the estimate prices will be closer to reality..

ptiemann says

True in case of 'spending', but if he buys an asset, then his net worth should not have changed much at all.

I realized later that this was written without enough thought. Absolutely, you have the asset. So it gets down to the value of the asset which is the point dodgerfanjohn had been making.

I appreciate your point about "spending" though. If you pay cash for land/house, it's part of your net worth and will probably stay above zero in value.

Fantom says

By which I mean a process in which the engine is actually lifted from the engine bay so that the spark plugs and consumables can be changed.

A friend recently bought an '89 Testarossa. When i recounted this story to a friend who collects Corvettes, he said that type of engine service for a Ferrari is a "$100k" endeavor.

Tha Maranello is cool though!

Katy Perry says

your not dumb enough to believe you"ll be actually paying the price you Realturd told you over 30 years. look at the bottom of your loan paper work. Thats the price you really agreed to pay.

This is a really important part of real estate sales. NOBODY tells me, 'Hey I bought a house for price + interest!" But that's EXACTLY what they did. They fixate on the "price."

So, years later when they sell the place they subtract "price" from the sales price and claim that's how much they "made."

This is crazy, people! It's a strategy set out by people with lots of money to loan to make them even more money!

I'm amazed at how even I don't allow myself to enjoy my rental the way some people enjoy their loaned homes. I've been enjoying my rental more and more.

FunTime says

Fantom says

By which I mean a process in which the engine is actually lifted from the engine bay so that the spark plugs and consumables can be changed.

A friend recently bought an '89 Testarossa. When i recounted this story to a friend who collects Corvettes, he said that type of engine service for a Ferrari is a "$100k" endeavor.

Tha Maranello is cool though!

Wow wait a minute, why are you asking a Corvette guy for Ferrari advice? They naturally disdain each other and they might as well live on different planets.
engine service for a Testarossa is expensive, but its no where near $100k, even if its done at the Ferrari Stealership.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/collectible_classic/1003_1984_1991_ferrari_testarossa/viewall.html
The engine needs to be removed every 30,000 miles (or five years) to change the timing belts and adjust the valves. While the twelve-cylinder is out, Garcia replaces all the seals, bearings, and wear parts. The procedure costs up to $8000. And then halfway between each major service is a minor one, which costs about half that much. That's hardly "minor."

bubblesburst says

Honestly I don't care what price Zillow shows. That's the God's honest truth. It can be ridiculous both on the upside and also the downside. But I would equate it to a situation where you don't really care what someone you don't know says about you. Most people would rather be called beautiful vs. being called ugly. Or someone walking up to you and saying "your kid is really beautiful" vs. "boy your kid is ugly". In the end it's just a stranger's opinion but most people still would have something positive vs. something negative said about them. LOL. I look at Zillow the same way. :)

Zillow is just a guess. Case in point: In a small suburbia, it thinks my parent's house is worth more than the neighbors, but it fails to acknowledge their fully finished basement in the sq. ft measurements, nor does it want to acknowledge their land is twice the size of my parents.

Zillow is crap, but it IS important when going to buy/sell a house since other people care about it. It's going to be that much harder to buy a house if Zillow appraises it too high, and harder to sell if Zillow considers it worthless.