patrick.net

Communism's policies always result in destroying any incentive to produce, which results in destruction of the economy and country.

Why should I pay back debt if others don't have to?
Why should I work hard if I won't be rewarded any more than the laziest person in the company?
Why should I do ANYTHING for this system that I'm not forced to at gunpoint??

From the article: "The President has and continues to support canceling $10,000 of federal student loan debt per person as a response to the Covid crisis,"

Why not a rebate of $10,000 in tuition fees? That way you do not penalize the people who actually saved for or work their way through college.

HeadSet says

Why not a rebate of $10,000 in tuition fees? That way you do not penalize the people who actually saved for or work their way through college.

Because that would actually make sense. We can't have any of that...

Karloff says

Communism's policies always result in destroying any incentive to produce, which results in destruction of the economy and country.

Plutocrats and Techno-Bureaucrat Oligarchies do the same.

All those wealthy Congress Party landowners who borrowed heavily from the Indian National Bank - their loans were forgiven, but the small farmers were demanded to pay it all back.

So should we be taking out 10K or 50K student loans out now? It's going to be free money soon enough..

you want to know the big joke? These idiot kids are taking on $200k of debt. $10k? That's like 1 years interest.

theoakman says

you want to know the big joke? These idiot kids are taking on $200k of debt. $10k? That's like 1 years interest.

No, the joke is on anyone putting kid through college. The collective idiocy (greed, actually) of all those kids willing to take on and spend $200k of debt really ramped up the costs for us all. You know, laugh at the naïve puds who started saving for the kid's college from when they were born. Maybe a new term - a "529 Fool."

HeadSet says

laugh at the naïve puds who started saving for the kid's college from when they were born

Back I think in the late 90's, Texas started a plan to allow parents of newborns to set up a fixed amount that would guarantee in 18 years four years of college would be funded regardless of tuition at that time--called something like the Texas Promise Fund--$10K comes to mind but I may be wrong. So many parents responded to what they realized was a bonanza that at some point it was either discontinued in the promises that were made or a cap was put on it. At any rate, the early takers were the winners because I think within five years the people who promoted it realized they'd created something that could never be delivered. Sounds like a lot of government programs when you think about it.

NDrLoR says

HeadSet says

laugh at the naïve puds who started saving for the kid's college from when they were born

Back I think in the late 90's, Texas started a plan to allow parents of newborns to set up a fixed amount that would guarantee in 18 years four years of college would be funded regardless of tuition at that time--called something like the Texas Promise Fund--$10K comes to mind but I may be wrong. So many parents responded to what they realized was a bonanza that at some point it was either discontinued in the promises that were made or a cap was put on it. At any rate, the early takers were the winners because I think within five years the people who promoted it realized they'd created something that could never be delivered. Sounds like a lot of government programs when you think about it.

Still happening. I bought 2 children bachelors degrees for 55k. The oldest is 5 now. Just hope it works out, I guess.

HeadSet says

From the article: "The President has and continues to support canceling $10,000 of federal student loan debt per person as a response to the Covid crisis,"

Why not a rebate of $10,000 in tuition fees? That way you do not penalize the people who actually saved for or work their way through college.

According to more evidence of stolen election from Time, Biden is not a president since election was stolen. His opinion is invalid or carries any weight.

Misc says

cancel $10k

'cancel' amount will be built in into the fee, tuition etc. structure. colleges take it from gov through none savers.
That much more savers have to come up with next time for not of their fault.
Just like, now he new gov gives $15k for new first home buyers that means the homes will be $15k more expensive.

Blue says

now he new gov gives $15k for new first home buyers that means the homes will be $15k more expensive.

Exactly, as soon as sellers know that the government is giving that money, slurp, price went up!

Same thing in education.

NDrLoR says

HeadSet says

laugh at the naïve puds who started saving for the kid's college from when they were born

Back I think in the late 90's, Texas started a plan to allow parents of newborns to set up a fixed amount that would guarantee in 18 years four years of college would be funded regardless of tuition at that time--called something like the Texas Promise Fund--$10K comes to mind but I may be wrong. So many parents responded to what they realized was a bonanza that at some point it was either discontinued in the promises that were made or a cap was put on it. At any rate, the early takers were the winners because I think within five years the people who promoted it realized they'd created something that could never be delivered. Sounds like a lot of government programs when you think about it.

Virginia had something similar, but it was collage specific. That is you could pre-pay now for William and Mary or UVa at todays costs and you would be covered despite any increases. That does obligate your kid to that specific college, and I am not sure what happens if the kid does not have high enough SATs or grades for entry.

Higher Education is in for a RUDE awakening. Thanks to the Covid Crisis, every class at most schools went online. Some were done well, others were done poorly. But the important bit was that they were done ONLINE.

The entire reason that online only universities arose was a perceived need in higher education for classes that were much more convenient to take for non-traditional students. Oh, and by the way, that’s MOST of the students. If you have skid or a family or/and a job, you can’t afford to go do a four year degree, not and finish in any amount of reasonable time. It’s just too hard for many people.

Now that the online cherry has been busted, students will be looking for online classes to take at their local universities or community colleges. That format will be the preferred format and in person classes will become hard to fill, at least at non-IvyLeague.
Be aware that this does NOT mean that Zoom classes will be popular. Those suck and require the student to log in at a certain time and date to listen to a professor drone on and try to conduct class. Those are also going away. True online is the future, for most classes. Labs will still require face to face instruction, as will hands on things like music and sculpture and art and welding and shop, robotics, and other stuff. But the majority of the courses will have their largest presence online.

And this will lead to lower tuition, since every college will be competing with every other college for those online dollars.

Shaman says

Higher Education is in for a RUDE awakening. Thanks to the Covid Crisis, every class at most schools went online. Some were done well, others were done poorly. But the important bit was that they were done ONLINE.

The entire reason that online only universities arose was a perceived need in higher education for classes that were much more convenient to take for non-traditional students. Oh, and by the way, that’s MOST of the students. If you have skid or a family or/and a job, you can’t afford to go do a four year degree, not and finish in any amount of reasonable time. It’s just too hard for many people.

Now that the online cherry has been busted, students will be looking for online classes to take at their local universities or community colleges. That format will be the preferred format and in person classes will become hard to fill, at least at non-IvyLeague.
Be aware that this does NOT mean that Zoom classes will be popular. Those suck and require the ...

None of that. I taught online for 2/3 of semester, students did not learn anything, and ca. 40-60% of class cheated on ONLINE exams. Administrative solution is to inflate grades, but what is the point of "learning" if nothing gets learned? Your idea of tuition going down is also wrong - it did not, and it will not. Education is expensive because schools have 1.5 highly paid diversity counselors per teaching faculty member. That will not change even if everything goes online, and online competition is not different from in-person school competition, which for some reason (probably govt' subsidies) does not work.

One of my colleagues had a class where some of students were online, and some in person, and exams all were in person (to avoid cheating). The in-person students scored a full grade above online students...

Online thing was the most disastrous flop in the history of education.

Edit: and in principle lectures were not necessary since invention of printing press. It is sufficient, for a disciplined student, to read textbook and do homework problems. Why did that not take off in 19th century?

Patrick says

Same thing in education

Education Act of 1965 "...“to strengthen the educational resources of our colleges and universities and to provide financial assistance for students in postsecondary and higher education” was where and when it started

@rb6d
Better brush up on your online course skills buddy. This is a trend that’s going to continue. No Zoom. True online. You can continue to believe what you like, but I’m not wrong about this. When students find out they can take the same class you’re teaching in person online and get the same credit for it, while doing it at their leisure/free time, many will opt for the online option, especially with the Covid panic fear hanging on. If I remember right you’re at a large Texas University, probably a PhD, and tenured. That bodes well for you as the large universities will continue to have in person classes especially for things like Chemistry. But anything that easily transmutes to a fully online course is going to have major shifts in enrollment, as students chase the more convenient option.
With online courses, they can hold that job where the hours keep changing at the employers whim/needs and still work towards their degree. They also don’t have to drive to campus, find a parking spot (pay for parking), walk to class and sit there for an hour or two. That cuts down on the required time for each class.

Higher education is changing fast. It was already going this way...slowly. But the Covid thing accelerated it beyond all comprehension.

Shaman says

@rb6d
Better brush up on your online course skills buddy. This is a trend that’s going to continue. No Zoom. True online. You can continue to believe what you like, but I’m not wrong about this. When students find out they can take the same class you’re teaching in person online and get the same credit for it, while doing it at their leisure/free time, many will opt for the online option, especially with the Covid panic fear hanging on. If I remember right you’re at a large Texas University, probably a PhD, and tenured. That bodes well for you as the large universities will continue to have in person classes especially for things like Chemistry. But anything that easily transmutes to a fully online course is going to have major shifts in enrollment, as students chase the more convenient option.
With online courses, they can hold that job where the hours keep changing at the employers whim/needs and still work towards their degree. They also don’t have to drive to campu...

Teaching has been about 25% of what I do at university, and I am telling you how I see it. Any potential online changes will not hit me personally in any way other than annoyance about cheating, but what I've seen so far is that students don't learn anything online. And that's a fact that can not be refuted by just saying "it will change" or "online education works".

I can't argue about higher education being broken - it has changed from learning to indoctrination/support of managerial class/tending to needs of snowflake students. One result is that curriculum is padded by useless stuff where everyone gets an A and it definitely does not matter if you take gender studies online or in person - i both cases student will come out of class more stupid. But for complex science classes or properly taught humanities (as in really teach them how to write in English, which does not happen), in-person is much better.

Most college kids can not write an essay, FFS. I mean a viewpoint with 3 pieces of evidences backed by sources.

And forget about Compare X with Y and find similarities and differences.

And never, ever "Oh, you love abortion? Write an essay on why abortion should be illegal" - Profs (and even HS Teachers) would often force you to take the opposite view.

NoCoupForYou says

Most college kids can not write an essay, FFS.

My grad students can't write a scientific paper until I, through great pain for myself and weeks of my time, teach them to. And I am not a native English speaker so they should be teaching me...on top of that these grad students are usually among most intelligent of the crop.

This semester if I would be teaching an advanced undergrad science course with less than 50 students, I'd make them write an essay about efficiency or lack thereof of mask wearing during corona. They would need to substantiate their viewpoint with peer-reviewed research articles and not soundbites from MSNPC, FOX, or Fauci press conferences. I think I would have 50 converts that would consider masks useless...