patrick.net

Patrick says

Wait, lol, now that I think about it, it could have either helped or hurt my chances with Harvard

Affirmative Action is stupid. It's anti-meritocracy. But why the outrage at Warren when it's not crystal clear she didn't lie at all? Oh, identity politics. Nothing else. The existence of Affirmative Action isn't Warren's fault. The fact that the right is still attacking her when they literally have no case whatsoever shows that they are just as much social justice warriors as the left.

This country needs more moderates, not more extremists. Identity politics, played by both the left and the right, is tearing this country apart. It needs to stop. People on patnet need to stop with the identity politics. It's disgusting. If you hate Warren's policies, make a case against them. Attacking her for not being Native American enough is bullshit. It's grasping at a straw. The bottom line is that all the people on patnet calling her a liar were wrong and aren't man enough to admit it.

Personally, I like fiscal conservatives like Warren. America should be a meritocracy, not a welfare state / aristocracy. Think about how much lower our taxes would be if huge swarms of people were not impoverished by predatory lending and financial fraud. Less poverty means less welfare means less taxes. Back in the 1980s and before, Republicans understood this, but now all those Republicans have been ejected by the party in favor of radicals. Christ, Reagan and Goldwater would be attacked by the patnetters today. Eisenhower would be called a commie.

A devil's triangle is not a drinking game,

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6241525/Kavanaughs-classmates-tell-Senate-Judiciary-Committee-Devils-Triangle-drinking-game.html

This Devil's Triangle as a drinking game is backed up by actual letters and witnesses from Kavanaughs classmates and people who were there. Much more so that the Ford accusations which were unsubstantiated by even the people Ford supplied as witnesses.

You are really grabbing at straws to call this perjury, as well as excusing Warren's claim of enough Indian blood to use affirmative action. Warren made the Cherokee claim based on nothing of substance, and when called on it, finally produced a DNA test that shows "Native America/East Asian" at a level so low as to be statistical noise. That only vindicated Warren's claim to the lefties that want desperately to believe it.

HeadSet says

This Devil's Triangle as a drinking game

That's less credible than oral sex is not sexual relations.

doik says

The existence of Affirmative Action isn't Warren's fault. The fact that the right is still attacking her when they literally have no case whatsoever shows that they are just as much social justice warriors as the left.

It's not her fault, no, but it's the fault of her platform. Affirmative action is wholly owned by the left.

Warren invented her genealogy to take advantage of a system HER party actively put into place over decades.

doik says

Now we know with absolutely certainty that she never lied.

wtf?

She exposed how bad her outright lying was. You seriously believe 1/1024th of "maybe" mexican/peruvian/columbian genes is "proof" she's a native american?

HeadSet says

Warren made the Cherokee claim based on nothing of substance, and when called on it, finally produced a DNA test that shows "Native America/East Asian" at a level so low as to be statistical noise.

Her claim turned out to be true, therefore she could not possibly be lying, which is what the right attacked her on. Also, although the percentage is small, it is as certain as DNA evidence can be that she is of Native American descent. We literally execute people based on less certain DNA evidence.

Goran_K says

It's not her fault, no, but it's the fault of her platform. Affirmative action is wholly owned by the left.

Warren is a moderate, not the left. She was a Republican under Reagan and would still be consider a moderate conservative under Reagan-era standards. Blaming Warren for Affirmative Action for guilt by association is nonsense.

It's painfully obvious that all the people attacking her are doing so solely based on identity politics, not based on issues or actual wrong-doing. That's my point. Until people reject identity politics, our country will remain fractured and corrupt politicians will use wedge issues to screw over Americans. These baseless attacks are hurting America. Why is it that patnetters can't see that?

doik says

Her claim turned out to be true

No it did not. WTF are you talking about?

You do know actual natives are calling her a bull shit artist and are disavowing her claims right? You're literally arguing against actual real Cherokee indians on this point. You're actually arguing against science at this point. Half the country has MORE indian DNA than she does (aka most blacks and hispanics). That's how weak your argument is here.

It's painfully obvious that all the people attacking her are doing so solely based on identity politics,

You are excusing Warren based on identity politics -not proof.

You are attacking Kavanaugh based on identity politics - not proof.

Goran_K says

No it did not. WTF are you talking about?

I'm talking about cold, hard facts. If you can't even admit the truth when DNA evidence proves it, then you're so far gone into identity politics that you have no grasp on reality. Like it or not, Warren's claim was true and therefore she did not lie.

It's sad that even admitting this simple, and completely irrelevant, thing is impossible for some people in today's tribal identity politics culture. It shouldn't even matter what her ancestry is. It has nothing to do with policies. But she didn't lie, and you can't let that go.

doik says

Her claim turned out to be true, therefore she could not possibly be lying,

No, her claim was and is false. Sharing 1/1024th with South Americans is actually genetically less Native-American than the average White American in the US, so her claim about her mom suffering from racial discrimination due to Native-American heritage was factually impossible and entirely made up. On top of that, without her false claim of Native American heritage, her law degree from a 3rd rate law school would never have enabled her to become a law professor at a law school of an Ivy League university, never mind Harvard Law School, which hired her as their first female faculty of color. She was a fraud, just like that white chick claiming to be black and worked her way to local NAACP leadership.

Reality says

She was a fraud, just like that white chick claiming to be African-American and worked her way to local NAACP leadership.

At least that chick has put some effort into changing her appearance to look the part.

doik says

I'm talking about cold, hard facts

No you're not, you're talking hot utter shit.

0.009% of "mexican/peruvian/columbian" is not factually "native american" by any stretch.

No Cherokee Indian will ever agree with you and in fact the tribe has commented publicly and disagrees with you.

doik says

I'm talking about cold, hard facts.

The cold hard fact is that the average White Americans have more Native-American DNA than Warren does, simply due to historical cross-overs. The real Pocahontas (the Native American princess of the 16th century) went to England and had children there, and her children obviously married with local whites and blended into the white population. If anything, Warren's ancestors kept themselves more distant from people with Native-Americans ancestry than the average White Americans' ancestors did (i.e her ancestors were more xenophobic than usual), resulting in her DNA being more "white" than the average White Americans in the US. Warren's claim about her mother having suffered racial discrimination due to being Native American was entirely false.

I'm 1/64th New Yorker

Now wut I'm sayin'
Whoa, Oh, Ho! I'm walkin hea!

Reality says

Sharing 1/1024th with South Americans is actually genetically less Native-American than the average White American in the US

This fact is meaningless. The average has nothing to do with the median. A few Native Americans will have 100% Native American ancestry pushing the average high while the median American will have 0% Native American ancestry. You are grasping at straws.

The bottom line is that Warren in no way lied when she checked off a box in a job application. Having any ethnic ancestry makes it perfectly legitimate to check off such a box.

Goran_K says

You do know actual natives are calling her a bull shit artist and are disavowing her claims right?

Native Americans are saying that DNA is irrelevant to being a part of their cultural identity, and that's fair enough. However, Warren never claimed to be part of that culture. So this argument is irrelevant to the baseless and now disproved claims that Warren lied in order to get a job. And you are obsessing over something that should not even be on your radar. It's a fucking ethnicity box on a job application from decades ago.

It's completely non-creditable to claim that Warren lied to get a job. The only motivation for making this claim is transparent identity politics. I cannot respect people who stoop so low whether they are Democrats or Republicans. Talk about issues, not identity. It pisses you off when the other side engages in decisive identity politics, so stop being hypocritical by doing the same. You have no case and you are delusional if you think you are convincing anyone who isn't an extremist.

I am a fiscal conservative who would have fit in with the Republican Party from 1854 to 1990. I believe in low taxes, low welfare, strong borders, greatly curtailing immigration, no deficit spending, paying off the national debt, enforcing laws universally, but only having laws that prevent people from harming others, individual freedoms, meritocracy, entrepreneurship, and I'm proud of my white history and western culture, although I think that race, ethnic background, and nationality is irrelevant in a meritocracy. My biggest problem with Reagan was his massive deficit spending. That's how Republican I would have been for 90% of the party's existence.

If today's Republicans like you patnetters cannot accept a moderate, fiscal conservative like me as compatible with your ideology than you are extremists and you're ultimately dooming your party. The fact is that Warren would have been considered a moderate Republican and a fiscal conservative for 150 years of our history. Demonizing her shows how radical the right has become and how far it has deviated from the Eisenhower and Reagan years. And that's a very bad thing.

doik says

It's completely non-creditable to claim that Warren lied to get a job.

Uh, it's 100% credible. She changed her race from white to "native american" when it was completely untrue.

Warren is in the top 1% of whitest people in the United States, literally, based on her DNA profile.

href="/post/1319562&offset=#comment-1542578">Goran_K says

Uh, it's 100% credible. She changed her race from white to "native american" when it was completely untrue.

Warren is in the top 1% of whitest people in the United States, literally, based on her DNA profile.

Exactly.

Elizabeth Warren is not a citizen of the Cherokee Nation.

Elizabeth Warren is not enrolled in the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians.

And Elizabeth Warren is not one of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee.

Nor could she become one, even if she wanted to.

The Eastern Band of the Cherokee, for their part, have since 1963 required individuals to be at least 1/16 Cherokee to enroll -- and also to have "a direct lineal ancestor" on "the 1924 Baker Roll of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/is-elizabeth-warren-native-american-or-what/257415/

Warren is not an American Indian Legally, nor could she be.
Warren is not an American Indian Culturally, nor could she be.
Warren is not an American Indian Biologically , nor could she be.

Warren is NOT an American Indian, period.

doik says

The tribal hypocrisy on patnet once again reveals its ugly head. For years the right bitched and moan that Warren lied about her ancestry. Now we know with absolutely certainty that she never lied. How much of her ancestry is Native American is irrelevant. She did not lie 50 years ago when she checked a box on a job application.

So, you agree that most Black and White Americans with fractional (~1-5%) American Indian Ancestry can check the box for American Indian and sign up for all the benefits, get to the head of the line in college and job applications?

Note that Warren was billed as an American Indian in several official University materials and listed herself as American Indian in official publications.

What I find appalling is that anyone here is defending or attacking ANY politician. Hate the game, not the player. They're just doing what they have to (R or D) and what anyone here would have to do if they liked an easy job where you're constantly being wined and dined.

Go make some more money and you surely could buy off Liz Warren. It's a game guys. If you have the tokens, you'll at some point win the game. Just got to keep feeding the machine.

And yes, she straight up lied. It really doesn't matter though. Although any benefits she received should be paid back in full, including any salary she benefited from after the fact of the lie (especially government pay or any future pension plan). And again, yes she lied, there really isn't a discussion to be had on this. Surprised we're 3 figures deep comment wise on this topic.

Tenpoundbass says

the median American will have 0% Native American ancestry.

Whites - 0.2% Native American ancestry.
Latinos - 18% Native American ancestry (20% of population)
Blacks - 0.8% Native American ancestry

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4289685/

WookieMan says

They're just doing what they have to (R or D) and what anyone here would have to do if they liked an easy job where you're constantly being wined and dined.

No. I would personally not lie about my race to get illicit compensation to put food on the table.

I like to be able to sleep at night and I've done very well being honest and upfront with people, not lying to get ahead. Every dollar I've earned I can spend guilt free without having to come up with stories about "imagined racism", or constantly try to change the story about my genealogy, or even releasing dubious DNA tests to prove who I am.

Completely guilt free is way better IMO. Then again, I do have morals.

Heraclitusstudent says

Bottom line, she believed her parents or grand-parents and this is such a huge deal in reps minds.

This happened to my mom. Growing up, my grandmother told us all the same story about how my great, great grandfather was born of a Choctaw woman and the immigrant settler that married her. Now, you would think only going back 5 generations, there would be more awareness of the family history, but we all took it at face value. We had "high cheek bones" in the family, lol.

Well, last year, my mom finally did one of those trendy ancestry/genetics kits. Turns out zero native American--less than average for somebody born in the US. Grandma was telling stories the whole time. I have no doubt these were stories a lot of families told each other back then, a product of quaint chauvinism, like how in the '80s we liked bikini babes on our wall posters and beer coozies, and my aunt collected Aunt Jemima stuff from pre-Civil Rights.

The difference is my mom never checked a box for free tuition or affirmative action. It was just a curio we brought up from time to time. When she announced her results at the dinner table last Thanksgiving, we all had the biggest laugh over it and welcomed mom back to the white people tribe.

dr6B says

Whites - 0.2% Native American ancestry.

I bet if one creates a category for Whites (and Blacks) that arrived prior to the 1880s, the Amerind percentage is probably higher.

Philistine says

The difference is my mom never checked a box for free tuition or affirmative action.

Ok she didn't follow exactly the spirit of that rule, but she followed the letter of it. They asked if she has some native ancestors, she said yes.
BIG DEAL!

Heraclitusstudent says

They asked if she has some native ancestors, she said yes.
BIG DEAL!

... and here is why I don't care when the left feigns moral outrage.

In fact, be honest people, if a republican had done it, he would be a hero for screwing the affirmative action system in that particular way.

Heraclitusstudent says

if a republican had done it,

... they would be a fucking liar too.

Meanwhile Trump want to get read of the AMT, which for the little we know about his taxes, is the one rule that forced him to pay some relevant taxes.
But nothing to see here.
But it's all great cynicism of the right.

Goran_K says

She changed her race from white to "native american" when it was completely untrue.

Warren never claimed that she was not white. She simply claimed that she had some Native American ancestry, and that has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt by the DNA test. Again, we literally execute people based on far more questionable DNA evidence. Having any such ancestry makes her claim valid.

And again, this would not be at all important to you if you weren't engaging in identity politics.

joshuatrio says

Elizabeth Warren is not a citizen of the Cherokee Nation.

Elizabeth Warren is not enrolled in the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians.

And Elizabeth Warren is not one of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee.

Nor could she become one, even if she wanted to.

All of which are irrelevant to her checking off a box on a job application decades ago. That box has nothing to do with anything you mentioned.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Warren is NOT an American Indian, period.

Whether or not you consider her to be Native American is irrelevant. For the purpose of the ethnic background question, she qualifies, like it or not. Thus she clearly did not lie.

And again, why are people obsessively trying to claim that Warren lied on an irrelevant job application question when they are ok with Trump lying like crazy. I don't care if you love or hate Trump, but lying for better or worse is something he does dozens of time a day and you're ok with it. This is clearly identity politics hypocrisy.

The people posting in this thread need to realize how utterly ridiculous their attacks on Warren sound to anyone who isn't inside their narrow, extremist group. It really does sound ludicrous. It sounds even more absurd than the baseless accusations by the left that Trump is a rapist who grabs women pussies against their will.

If you can't see how absurd your accusations sound, then that's a huge red flag. You're never going to persuade anyone on any issue if you cannot be taken seriously because your very grasp on reality is questionable.

Elizabeth Warren's ancestry is an obvious wedge issue. No person who is concerned with this can be taken seriously by any sane person.

Goran_K says

... and here is why I don't care when the left feigns moral outrage.

I don't care when anyone feigns moral outrage. People acting morally superior are always full of shit. Truly moral people lead by example, not by pointing fingers.

Goran_K says

... they would be a fucking liar too.

And they would be loved by republicans for it.

doik says

that has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt by the DNA test

No, has not. Will never be.

doik says

Now the adult thing to do would be for all the patnetters who lambasted her for "lying" to apologize and admit they were wrong.

Holy brainwashed!

True or false: E Warren's mom was oppressed as a native for only being %99.83 white?

Goran_K says

... and here is why I don't care when the left feigns moral outrage.

Yeah because saying what is technically the truth is a great moral outrage comparable to, say, screwing a business partner after you shook his hand, or defrauding people attending your fake school, or running businesses in other countries while serving as US president, or trying to remove tax rules that make you pay taxes.

Heraclitusstudent says

Yeah because saying what is technically the truth

No, there was no truth in this whole saga. That's why it's such a bad reflection on the current state of the DNC.

Goran_K says

No, has not. Will never be.

Many so-called Hispanics have more Jewish DNA than Warren has Indian DNA. Total fraud!

Goran_K says

No. I would personally not lie about my race to get illicit compensation to put food on the table.

I like to be able to sleep at night and I've done very well being honest and upfront with people, not lying to get ahead.

You're not a politician..... Specifically someone in Congress. There is NO honestly in politics. You're not saying this, but there is not one honest politician starting probably from the state level upward. Most people in the real world HAVE to be honest or they'd get fucked over at some point and caught in a web of lies.

And yes, of course there are liars on the private side, for sure. The unfortunate news is that most liars sleep well at night too. That and everyone on this planet has 100% lied before in some way or another in their life. Usually it's something mundane, but everyone has lied at some point.

And again, I think Warren is an idiot. But we all know there are Republicans, Dems, Libertarians, Independents, etc that have all had to lie at one point or another to get where they are. Good luck getting to some of these positions of power with being 100% honest. Won't happen.

CBOEtrader says

True or false: E Warren's mom was oppressed as a native for only being %99.83 white?

Warren never claimed her mother was oppressed. Nor did she claim to be oppressed herself. She simply checked off a box labeled "Native American" in an ethnic background section of a form. She did not lie when checking off that box. You are deliberately reading more into this in order to create a straw man attack against Warren, something that is utterly hypocritical for someone who so strongly supports Trump who lies constantly about everything including stupid irrelevant things like how many people attended his inauguration.

And I'm not pointing this out as a "whataboutism". I'm pointing out your hypocrisy and the identity politics that is motivating your posts. Put aside identity politics and there is no reason for anyone to be upset with Warren for checking that box and no reason to call her a liar for doing so.

If you think her policies are bad, then you should be able to make a reasonable argument against those polices. The only thing that she's actually known for is trying to pass legislation to prevent banks from impoverishing masses of Americans. As a fiscal conservative, I like that. The less banks force people into poverty with fraud and other tricks, the less welfare we'll have, and the less of my hard-earned money will be taxed. I like low taxes, so I like cutting spending. Eliminating poverty cuts welfare spending. So anything that eliminates poverty including keeping greedy banks in line is a good thing.

doik says

She simply checked off a box labeled "Native American" in an ethnic background section of a form.

Which she isn't.

She should have checked off "White/Caucasian" or even: "European" if it were an option.

Please read:
joshuatrio says

Exactly.

Elizabeth Warren is not a citizen of the Cherokee Nation.

Elizabeth Warren is not enrolled in the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians.

And Elizabeth Warren is not one of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee.

Nor could she become one, even if she wanted to.

The Eastern Band of the Cherokee, for their part, have since 1963 required individuals to be at least 1/16 Cherokee to enroll -- and also to have "a direct lineal ancestor" on "the 1924 Baker Roll of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/is-elizabeth-warren-native-american-or-what/257415/