patrick.net

komputodo says

And lastly, they need that extra mil for the private room at the hospital where they are going to live out their last 6 months trying the latest, most expensive experimental drugs money can buy.

I think it is better to "buy" an afterlife at that stage. ;-)

komputodo says

To make a long story short probably less than .01% of the population has the stones to walk away from their "imagined security" and be their own master.

As far as personal "growth" goes, I don't even know what that word means. Just one of those mainstream filler words that's used when you don't know what to say.

Then again, I know hordes of people who "had the stones" to walk off the job, go out and either start some dreamy business or run off to the desert to play the flute or whatever. Most of them are poor and miserable as a result. So if the comment was about people having the balls to quit and do whatever I can't say I'm totally in awe or jealous.Peter P says

That is not my experience in multiple companies.

All I can tell you is that as far as today's market you had better know your shit and not expect to have the leisure to have to learn whatever it is you need to do for that job. That has totally been my experience.

Anyway.... Here are my closing thoughts on this. Perhaps many of you graduated from college, got jobs and things were all happy days. When I graduated the economy was in the shitter. The only jobs were basically jobs at big box stores and so on. So that's what I did. I made $8 an hour. Try and live in the most expensive metro in the US off that. I did. But anyway, that sucked. Worrying about money sucks because at the time every month was a struggle.

When I finally made it out of that situation and started doing better I can guarantee that I appreciated the money a whole hell of a lot more than those kids who found good jobs right out of school. So I'll be honest: When I hear of people just wanting to hop skip and jump out of some cushy job my immediate and perhaps unfair opinion is there's a lot of spoiled-rotten folks who might not know what its like to make minimum wage for a living and to have to dig under the cushions for laundry change.

The thing is that right now the economy is basically in yet another bubble: times are great and everything if all hunky-dory. But that can and will likely all change. I've been through 3 recessions so far and they all sucked. I see that the OP says he's 24. In other words too young to have really experienced that. In 2008 that would make him what?- like 18? But anyway, anyone who has been around long enough should really count inevitable recessions as part of the future. Maybe times are great now but what are ya' gonna' do when the next recession hits? You see, its not just retirement that needs to be saved for but these recessions which ultimately translates to a few years of lean times between the boom times.

I suppose I've spouted off enough about this. People are free to what they want to do. maybe we should all just quit our jobs and run off to the desert and learn to play the flute...

Oh, I have seen layoffs in my office. It happened soon after I joined. The second day, I told my boss that the layoff was overrated because the parking lot was still too full.

komputodo says

For all the people that took the safe secure route in life with a steady job and pension.

If they made a movie of your life, would anybody watch it?

I love The Office.

edvard2 says

I see that the OP says he's 24.

He is? And he's making a 6 figure income?

Why would you want to leave that?

New Renter says

edvard2 says

I see that the OP says he's 24.

He is? And he's making a 6 figure income?

Why would you want to leave that?

Because one can never get rich on a 6, 7 or even 8-figure income?

Perhaps his dream is even bigger than having lots of money?

The greatest tragedy in life is aiming too low.

komputodo says

For all the people that took the safe secure route in life with a steady job and pension.

If they made a movie of your life, would anybody watch it?

Hell yeah! I guess that must mean that my life is really exciting, not to mention safe and secure.

komputodo says

Or don't live in the US where everyone is obsessed with money and status.

There are worse places in the world in this regard. Have you been to China?

I suspect that countries with good social services may collapse unless they are blessed with abundant natural resources.

The game of life is about domination. Call it money or something else, there is no free lunch.

Peter P says

Because one can never get rich on a 6, 7 or even 8-figure income?

If he is 24 and making over $100k he needs to kiss his lucky stars, especially if its at a job that allows him to have a family AND enough free time to run a business on the side.

Most people I know in my field almost twice his age are JUST making that. And that's after the better part of a decade of poverty line academic servitude.

STFU and get back to work already!

New Renter says

Peter P says

Because one can never get rich on a 6, 7 or even 8-figure income?

If he is 24 and making over $100k he needs to kiss his lucky stars, especially if its at a job that allows him to have a family AND enough free time to run a business on the side.

Most people I know in my field almost twice his age are JUST making that. And that's after the better part of a decade of poverty line academic servitude.

STFU and get back to work already!

Or maybe one can push his luck further? :-)

The important thing to know is that failure is a real possibility. And that is okay.

If you do not fail often you are not pushing hard enough.

I thought he said he is 29

errc says

I thought he said he is 29

24, 29 anything under 45 its all the same.

I guess I just find this whole topic somewhat interesting. There seems to be this generic consensus that any and all jobs had at a corporation or otherwise some place of employment that is owned by someone else must surely suck and that the road to happiness and excitement is to quit and do your own thing.

My Dad does this actually. But its not like its all paradise and easy. Just like my job he has good days and bad. Just like me he too has responsibilities. Just like me he takes vacations to "get away" for awhile. Like me he also has hobbys, friends, and other extracurricular activities he partakes in after the work is done.

I guess what I'm saying is that hey- if your job sucks then there's better ones out there. There is such a thing as going to a 9-5 job and having a fun, fulfilling and exciting life at the same time. Nobody wrote some rule that says you can't.

But ultimately how one feels about their situation and how things work out for them is all up to them, their thought process and their attitude. That's really all there is to it.

errc says

I thought he said he is 29

He said somewhere but that text disappeared.

Peter P says

Or maybe one can push his luck further? :-)

The important thing to know is that failure is a real possibility. And that is okay.

If you do not fail often you are not pushing hard enough.

Oh God, spare us the platitudes!

This guy failed. Was that OK? Should he have tried harder?

joshuatrio says

Strategist says

1. How old are you?

If you decide to ever go back to a job your age could get in the way.

2. How old are the kids?

If you plan on traveling their school schedule will restrict you.

3. Do you own your home with a mortgage?

You have an obligation to consider.

4. What about health benefits?

Your expenses have just shot up. I sense your wife does not work full time.

Build up your business as much as possible and then quit, even if you have to put in 80 hours.

Good luck.

1) 29

2) 3,4

3) No. Rent

4) Currently insured. This is something I've thought about.

29

SoftShell says

I'm freaked out by your avatar....

I swear to god i didn't take your potato chips!

turtledove says

it won't have the appearance of some kind of breakdown.

For you, anything. Consider it gone.

New Renter says

If he is making that kind of money at 29 he will likely be considered expendable should there be a change in management. He may very well have a hell of a time finding a similar "high paying" job again despite any rosy talk of a booming economy as are the people I mentioned previously(obviously YMMV).

I thought low-6 is quite standard for a 29-year-old in tech.

The economy is both white-hot AND gloomy at the same time. It is good to be mobile and adaptable.

New Renter says

Here is the other possibility. If he is making that kind of money at 29 he will likely be considered expendable should there be a change in management. He may very well have a hell of a time finding a similar "high paying" job again despite any rosy talk of a

That's actually a VERY important thing to consider. In my industry you're lucky to see anyone over the age of 45 and the majority are probably in their 20's-30's. There are a lot of people who by the time they get into their 50's suddenly have one hell of a time getting another job. So the bottom line is make the good money while you can. At this point I consider myself roughly 60% through the career I'm in. But by the time I hit my late 40's I should be good financially and could take some sort of stupid job just to pay the gas and so forth.

Peter P says

I thought low-6 is quite standard for a 29-year-old in tech.

Depends on the tech.

Biotech you're looking at half that unless you are Ph.D.

In that case its 1/6th to 1/3 of that depending on whether you are a GTA or a post doc.

Peter P says

New Renter says

edvard2 says

I see that the OP says he's 24.

He is? And he's making a 6 figure income?

Why would you want to leave that?

Because one can never get rich on a 6, 7 or even 8-figure income?

Perhaps his dream is even bigger than having lots of money?

The greatest tragedy in life is aiming too low.

That's pretty much it. It's not about money. I'm just as happy at 100k, as I was at 60 and 70k. We live pretty frugally, and know how to save, so even if I failed and took a 50% cut, it really wouldn't affect my lifestyle much.

New Renter says

Here is the other possibility. If he is making that kind of money at 29 he will likely be considered expendable should there be a change in management. He may very well have a hell of a time finding a similar "high paying" job again despite any rosy talk of a booming economy as are the people I mentioned previously(obviously YMMV).

I'm not really concerned about finding another job. I've got a pretty diverse IT background, with technical and management experience - as well as a few high level vendor certs that help out with salary.

edvard2 says

New Renter says

Here is the other possibility. If he is making that kind of money at 29 he will likely be considered expendable should there be a change in management. He may very well have a hell of a time finding a similar "high paying" job again despite any rosy talk of a

That's actually a VERY important thing to consider. In my industry you're lucky to see anyone over the age of 45 and the majority are probably in their 20's-30's. There are a lot of people who by the time they get into their 50's suddenly have one hell of a time getting another job.

I would count on it!

joshuatrio says

That's pretty much it. It's not about money. I'm just as happy at 100k, as I was at 60 and 70k. We live pretty frugally, and know how to save, so even if I failed and took a 50% cut, it really wouldn't affect my lifestyle much.

That's fine for now but what happens later when your needs change? When you want a bigger place as your kids grow? When inflation kills your savings and income?

joshuatrio says

I'm not really concerned about finding another job. I've got a pretty diverse IT background, with technical and management experience - as well as a few high level vendor certs that help out with salary.

Which I'm sorry to say will count for naught once your network dries up.

Believe me things can change and fast.

edvard2 says

That's actually a VERY important thing to consider. In my industry you're lucky to see anyone over the age of 45 and the majority are probably in their 20's-30's. There are a lot of people who by the time they get into their 50's suddenly have one hell of a time getting another job. So the bottom line is make the good money while you can. At this point I consider myself roughly 60% through the career I'm in. But by the time I hit my late 40's I should be good financially and could take some sort of stupid job just to pay the gas and so forth.

I used to work at a large internet company known for its youthful employees. Yet two of my co-workers were in their 50's.

I know multiple people that were some of the 1st engineers at google and facebook.

All were in their 40's, one in their 50's. All but one have retired.

joshuatrio says

Congratulations. I'm glad that it worked out for you. You are probably doing better for yourself than for the man... yes?

So far! I even had to teach my Daughter how to code, just so I could have a Jr Developer to do the QA and general debugging.

CrazyMan says

I know multiple people that were some of the 1st engineers at google and facebook.

All were in their 40's, one in their 50's. All but one have retired.

But out of the entire company what is the age range? What percent are 45 and older?

Some people are lucky and have a nice stable career all the way from entry level to retirement.

Most don't

CaptainShuddup says

joshuatrio says

Congratulations. I'm glad that it worked out for you. You are probably doing better for yourself than for the man... yes?

So far! I even had to teach my Daughter how to code, just so I could have a Jr Developer to do the QA and general debugging.

Ugh,

That reminds me of when I used to have to read back my dad's COBOL code to him. to debug.

At least I think it was COBOL...

Not to state the obvious, but either choice comes with pros and cons. Some people's worst fears would be to lose their jobs. They could never imagine leaving a good job on purpose. For them, keeping the job is the only choice. Others might consider the worst thing in the world to be missing out on traveling or taking time off to be with their kids... or pursuing their own business dreams... or suffocating in a job they hate.

It really boils down to you. What terrifies you the most? All options come with risk. Which risks are easier for you to swallow? Since you have a family, you aren't living in a vacuum. So, what does the wife say about this? Which risks give her night sweats?

Absent a crystal ball, there is no way anyone can guarantee that one choice is right over all others. Consider all the options, make the best plan you can based on the information you have, and then be flexible enough to go with the tide -- because no matter how well thought out the plan, things WILL go sideways. But that is true with most everything.... Including if you were to make no changes and stay exactly where you are now.

turtledove says

It really boils down to you. What terrifies you the most? All options come with risk. Which risks are easier for you to swallow? Since you have a family, you aren't living in a vacuum. So, what does the wife say about this? Which risks give her night sweats?

Absent a crystal ball, there is no way anyone can guarantee that one choice is right over all others. Consider all the options, make the best plan you can based on the information you have, and then be flexible enough to go with the tide -- because no matter how well thought out the plan, things WILL go sideways. But that is true with most everything.... Including if you were to make no changes and stay exactly where you are now.

I think the odds are on Joshuatrio's side. He is already making money in his business. He is well educated, lives frugally, has savings and is only 29. His skills won't disappear in the next 5 years if he decides to get back to 9 to 5. He also has the benefit of a recovering economy.
If you are gonna do it, do it now, as you may never see a better opportunity.

Strategist says

His skills won't disappear in the next 5 years if he decides to get back to 9 to 5.

Skills will be outdated, network will vaporize. He'll be starting from scratch.

New Renter says

Strategist says

His skills won't disappear in the next 5 years if he decides to get back to 9 to 5.

Skills will be outdated, network will vaporize. He'll be starting from scratch.

Technology changes are fast paced, I understand that, but he will be able to brush up his skills quickly enough. My friends in Hi Tech at 50 are having a hard time keeping up, but still managing.

I'd keep making those six figures, and developing your own stuff on the side.

Nothing wrong with saving, plus pegging your FICA year-in year-out is a good thing, assuming we Gen Xers don't steal what's left of social security from you guys.

Not sure what % you want to be a nomad, and if you're thinking of living/working out of an RV, but I plan on going p/t mobile next year so I don't think RVing is a bad idea. But with a wife and kids, sounds like a combination adventure / massive logistics challenge, as of course RVs require a lot more resource management to work -- water, fuel, food, dumping the tanks, getting the most utility out of the small space you have with you, etc etc.

But money tends to make problems go away at least!

New Renter says

At least I think it was COBOL...

She's doing more than just reading it back.
For about three months, since I figured I was supporting her social life anyway.
I started I had her taking dictation on the code. By now she's already predicting mistakes. She's taking care of feature requests and bugs on her own. While I develop the pattern or best practice, she goes back behind me, and refactors all of the other forms or classes to use the enhancements.

She's getting $200 bucks a week, and squawks like a banshee when my wife deducts things like car insurance premiums and that time we had to pay to have her car towed from South Beach. Because she thought she could take it down there and sit in two hour gridlock traffic, in a car she knew needed an upper hose and thermostat.

Ah it reminds me of the good ole days. Back when I thought my relatives were screwing me for charging me rent, if I stayed with them.

CaptainShuddup says

New Renter says

At least I think it was COBOL...

She's doing more than just reading it back.

For about three months, since I figured I was supporting her social life anyway.

What are daddy's for?

Having made New Renter says

That's pretty much it. It's not about money. I'm just as happy at 100k, as I was at 60 and 70k. We live pretty frugally, and know how to save, so even if I failed and took a 50% cut, it really wouldn't affect my lifestyle much.

That's fine for now but what happens later when your needs change? When you want a bigger place as your kids grow? When inflation kills your savings and income?

The bigger question is what happens when his kids enter their odyssey years, don't get paid well enough to live middle class lifestyles in spite of having college degrees plus jobs that require them, and he fulfills the obligation he incurred bringing them into this world by helping them live middle-class lifestyles?

Three places are a lot more expensive than one.

CaptainShuddup says

New Renter says

At least I think it was COBOL...

She's doing more than just reading it back.

I was in Jr high and home computers were things you hooked up to the TV. I was reading the code from blurred dot matrix print on tractor fed green and white paper stacked a few inches tall.

It was horrible.

Strategist says

Technology changes are fast paced, I understand that, but he will be able to brush up his skills quickly enough. My friends in Hi Tech at 50 are having a hard time keeping up, but still managing.

Ah "high tech". That takes me back.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/l31I9RvluEA

Oddly relevant to the discussion at hand.

What's the worst that can happen? What's the optimal outcome? What's the probability of either occurring.

If your OK with that (and your wife is on board) go for it. Otherwise, stick it out a bit longer.

Nothing wrong with going you own way, but it ain't all roses and unicorns.

jazz music says

LOL yet it's those damn poor people and the unions with their retirements that are bound to break our backs.

Don't dare tax those precious Mcjob creators, that would just be Marxism!

Economies of poverty expand, essential commodities steadily rise, heyday for police, surveillance, corrections, all slippery slopes to prison labor and we would rather see this go on and on than comfort the poor and disenfranchised.

As if shit doesn't happen and it could never be you. Nobody steps out of line anymore.

Mission accomplished Koch brothers, Murdock!

Uhhh.... was that comment directed at me? I have no clue what you were trying to say...