patrick.net

These men are a casualty of the war on terror. If Prez Obama won't let these men go, there must be some reason. Perhaps it's not enough for a "trial" but these men can be classified as prisoners of war....and the war ain't over yet.
And it's a small number of men. More people are blown up every month in regions of the Middle East every day. So I have no sympathy.

MsBennet says

If Prez Obama won't let these men go, there must be some reason.

There is a damn good reason. Obama reneged on a key campaign lip service, when he vowed to close Gitmo in 2008.

MsBennet says

So I have no sympathy.

Nice.
These are human beings, a large percentage completely innocent. Sold to their American captors with phony stories.

MsBennet says

If Prez Obama won't let these men go, there must be some reason.

There is and it is called political expediency.
Human lives traded for votes.

There is no justifiable reason to ever imprison people in torture centers, sexually humiliate them, feed them to animals, deny them the right of habeas corpus and a fair, open trial, or to deny human rights watch groups from seeing the conditions of the prisons.

The fact is that America is full of despicable cowards who are all to willing to say that these people are guilty simply because they have been accused of being terrorists without even specific charges being made. Often these persons are simply taken based on the word of people being bribed or paid to deliver as many "terrorists" as possible.

The fact that Obama has allowed this to continue shows that he has no ethical, moral, or humanitarian backbone. Obama is simply a despicable war criminal like Bush, Saddam, Bashar al-Assad, and many other from Nazi Germany to the Sudan (Darfur genocide) to Rwanda. There have been many such criminals and none of them should be forgiven or forgotten. Every one of them should stand trial, but absent losing a war, few do. Obama is no better than any of them no matter what excuse he tells whatever fictional god he worships.

Of course you can't go home, then you might give interviews, and people might realize that not everybody - in fact, most of 'em - were simply in the wrong place, wrong time, or members of the wrong clan.

Dan8267 says

The fact that Obama has allowed this to continue shows that he has no
ethical, moral, or humanitarian backbone. Obama is simply a despicable war
criminal like Bush, Saddam, Bashar al-Assad, and many other from Nazi Germany to
the Sudan (Darfur genocide) to Rwanda. There have been many such criminals and
none of them should be forgiven or forgotten. Every one of them should stand
trial, but absent losing a war, few do. Obama is no better than any of them no
matter what excuse he tells whatever fictional god he worships.

We should consider ourselves lucky that Bush decided to populate his torture camp with foreigners instead of US citizens.
To your point, Obama has to maintain the status quo, because it's now his authority or under his administration that would be undermined if he just let the innocent go. If he releases any of them the whole sham is exposed, and you better believe they will talk about the torture they endured and their innocence. Everybody knows it's a total and inhumane failure, and just one of the many screwups by Bush jr, but the confidence in our government will go first, which Obama will pay the price for.

upisdown says

If he releases any of them the whole sham is exposed, and you better believe they will talk about the torture they endured and their innocence.

That is not a sufficient reason to continue the crime. In fact, we owe it to history to ensure that this tragedy of justice is never forgotten and that all of its ugly details are exposed. That is the only way to purge ourselves of the evil.

What I want to know is where are all those god damn Second Amendment gun nuts who keep saying that their guns will protect us in case of tyranny? Well, break the fucking glass, tyranny is already here.

I would gladly buy the argument that guns protect us from government tyranny if those militia men invaded Gitmo, took it over, arrested the guards (or killed them if they refused to submit to lawful arrest), and freed the prisoners. Hell, I'd be the #1 advocate of the Second Amendment and private militias if this were to happen. But it seems that all those militia people are the ones supporting Gitmo, so how can I see them as defenders of liberty?

upisdown says

We should consider ourselves lucky that Bush decided to populate his torture camp with foreigners instead of US citizens.

Now, after signing into law the NDAA, with the Sec 1021 Indefinite Detention Clause giving the military the power to arrest and hold Americans without the writ of habeas corpus, Obama takes one step closer to bringing the party home.

Dan8267 says

That is not a sufficient reason to continue the crime. In fact, we owe it to
history to ensure that this tragedy of justice is never forgotten and that all
of its ugly details are exposed. That is the only way to purge ourselves of the
evil.

Believe me, I agree with you. But how many times have we seen the government, with either party at the wheel, and on various serious consequences-type issues, make that choice?

They have a choice between the 2 options; expose and end the lie, or protect the lie. The bigger the repercussions, the more apt they are to protect the lie. Think of Penn State for an example.

One thing that I do credit Obama for ending, was the myth of Bin laden. End of story, and no future president, which could very likely be a republican, can use that as a crutch in their arsenal to implement their usual forms of fascism. Bush was quick and very sure to assume things that Bin laden said or did, and was coincidentally somehow always right, and that is only possible if he knew he wouldn't get embarrassed by Bin laden, because Bush already knew that he was dead. According to Bush, dead men are very predictable and can be counted on to justfiy all your actions, without ever being wrong.

Robert Sproul says

Now, after signing into law the NDAA, with the Sec 1021 Indefinite Detention
Clause giving the military the power to arrest and hold Americans without the
writ of habeas corpus, Obama takes one step closer to bringing the party
home.

One of my biggest complaints back then was not only giving Bush that power over me and everybody else, but every FUTURE president too, which who knows what the person thinks like, or how potentially devious that person may be. Far too many ideologues of the right persuasion supported the eavesdropping by Bush and parroted that worn out dogma that "if you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about".

upisdown says

They have a choice between the 2 options; expose and end the lie, or protect the lie. The bigger the repercussions, the more apt they are to protect the lie. Think of Penn State for an example.

True.

That is why, if ever, there were cause for a forcible uprising to overthrow the individual politicians, not the Republic, and arrest them at gunpoint using lethal force if necessary for crimes against humanity, violation of laws both national and international, using the full force of violence that can be mustered by militia, then that such a time is now. And if not now, then why should anyone believe that ever the militia would ring the bell of liberty.

Dan8267 says

That is why, if ever, there were cause for a forcible uprising to overthrow
the individual politicians, not the Republic, and arrest them at gunpoint using
lethal force if necessary for crimes against humanity, violation of laws both
national and international, using the full force of violence that can be
mustered by militia, then that such a time is now. And if not now, then why
should anyone believe that ever the militia would ring the bell of liberty.

Well, the biggest problem is that the power given to the government to wrongly and indefinitely imprison them, gives the same government power to do that to us, especially if anybody were to try what you suggested.

A better option would be to file some type of criminal/civil complaint, but it would probably get thrown out by crony/corrupt judges that will go to extreme lengths to protect the status quo. Or ambush any given politician with the ultimatum of closing Gitmo, but it'll never see the broadcast on any channel, or any newspaper.

Is anyone starting to wonder whether we are better or worse than the Soviets during the Gulag prison-camp era?

justme says

Is anyone starting to wonder whether we are better or worse than the Soviets during the Gulag prison-camp era?

No. Literally zero people are wondering that.

justme says

Is anyone starting to wonder whether we are better or worse than the Soviets during the Gulag prison-camp era?

Our quality of life is better, but essentially the American empire is no different from the former Soviet Union. Different words, same ideas, same assholes running everything.

Eeesh, who let the monkeys outta their cages today?

robertoaribas says

Dan8267 says

Our quality of life is better, but essentially the American empire is no different from the former Soviet Union. Different words, same ideas, same assholes running everything.

completely and utterly ridiculous of course... par for the course for the parnoid hyperbolic nonsense that patrick.net has become these days...

Tell that to the people in Gitmo. Or for that matter, the people in prison for marijuana related offenses.

robertoaribas says

completely and utterly ridiculous of course... par for the course for the parnoid hyperbolic nonsense that patrick.net has become these days...

Hyperbolic to you, sure, Prof.
Maybe not so much to the 101 million woking age Americans that the economy has discarded.
America's 2.5 million prisoners or the 7.25 million under correctional supervision might not agree either. (Highest incarceration rate AND largest number of prisoners in the world. [USA, We're # 1]. Bigger numbers than Stalin's Gulag at it's peak. Incarceration rates barely dropping even in the face of plummeting violent crime rates, thanks to the valiant Drug Warriors on BOTH sides of the aisle)
You should know better than most that there are many Americas and only a few of them bear close scrutiny. Camden NJ, Pine Ridge Reservation, the devastated urban environments of the Rust Belt, sure ain't Scottsdale.
Corporatized Capitalizm is a brutal machine. You may find out when the absurd, financialized, higher education bubble bursts.

robertoaribas says

completely and utterly ridiculous of course... par for the course for the parnoid hyperbolic nonsense that patrick.net has become these days...

Couldn't agree more.

MsBennet says

These men are a casualty of the war on terror. If Prez Obama won't let these men go, there must be some reason. Perhaps it's not enough for a "trial" but these men can be classified as prisoners of war....and the war ain't over yet.

And it's a small number of men. More people are blown up every month in regions of the Middle East every day. So I have no sympathy.

These sentiments are staggeringly callous and obtuse.
"Trial" in quotes?
"And the war ain't over yet"?
Your opinions about the phony Neocon wars of aggression in the Middle East and your lack of humanity are demoralizing.
Well, "more people are blown up every month" Ill grant you that...by your "Prez Obama"'s drone attacks.