patrick.net

And people think you have no sense of humor, or are you being serious? :)

Yes the federal reserve is about to raise rates to 10% any day now - which will crush RE market. lol

For all those who want to prevent total ruin, I am ready, able and willing to take that problem off your hands.
Will buy property in California at full market value.

Sucker - Raw

Buy rentals or die a pauper.

JodyChunder says

Buy rentals or die a pauper.

I read this the first time as "die in pampers". :)

CL says

I read this the first time as "die in pampers". :)

Ha! I am not sure which is worse...

JodyChunder says

Ha! I am not sure which is worse...

Sh*t on yourself, or sh*t in diapers. I think it's obvious.

robertoaribas says

f real estate crashes again, I'll have to start taking these pills again...

That looks more like a gigantic suppository!

JodyChunder says

robertoaribas says

f real estate crashes again, I'll have to start taking these pills again...

That looks more like a gigantic suppository!

That one looks the same, but the writing says "Shitital" instead. ;)

robertoaribas says

If real estate crashes again, I'll have to start taking these pills again...

I assume you are an investor or a real estate agent. No hard working family wants, or needs, the real estate market to go up. A whole generation under 40 is being pushed out of the market in the Bay Area, unless you are the 1%, or in the real estate market.

I'm not talking lazy families with too many kids on welfare either. I'm talking about families with two parents working two jobs apiece, or two parents with one parent working evening and the other working day, so someone is home with the kids. I'm talking about parents with two great degrees like engineering and the like, and they can't afford a home here, and if they can it's at the risk of not having a retirement. I've done the math and yes, some of us can afford a home by the skin of our teeth. But there would be nothing left over for retirement or our kid's education. And yes, some of my friends bought knowing they would have zero retirement and it would wipe out their kids education fund, and they are taking that gamble because they think they will ride the same ride their parents rode in the 90's with their real estate. Others just assume the government will take care of them when they are older. The only other people under forty buying homes had mommy or daddy pitch in for it. Since I'm not willing to risk our retirement or my kids education in a gamble, nor am I expecting mom, dad, or the government to save me, I'm essentially left out of the market. Like most hard-working families under 40 that actually save every cent not going to absolute necessities, we will probably never own a home.

So, I'm happy for the real estate agents, the investors, the 1% corporate kings and the people from my generation who have parents that keep on giving. For the rest of our generation, my heart truly goes out to you. We were raised to believe getting good grades, saving hard and working hard would at least give us a one bedroom home in a safe neighbourhood that would cost (like our parents before us) less than twice our annual income. We believed the lie, what suckers we are. Maybe the guys suggesting porn, drug dealing or human slavery as an income were really just trying to offer up a real solution. Our once great country is going to fall - and the evidence is more in the way the average family is being forced to live than in anything else.

hrhjuliet says

Since I'm not willing to risk our retirement or my kids education in a gamble, nor am I expecting mom, dad, or the government to save me, I'm essentially left out of the market.

Yeah, but who cares? Owning a house is like owning a BMW. Big deal. My joy from that kind of thing just doesn't last very long. Nearly 100% of my friends who live in expensive homes got downpayments from parents. Great for them, but I'm the American Dream which, admittedly, involves luck. My mom worked at Pizza Hut when I was born. I made almost all of my money after a little help from my church and parents to get educated enough to have a chance to jump out of poverty.
It sounds like you're putting your money into the parts of life that last. No reason to get all doomsday about the USA. Just let go of all that American Dream-built-on-consumption and join those of us building financially secure lives. Pursue happiness without the influence of the psychological dread caused by at least a subconscious knowledge that you've bought way more than you will ever pay.

Or, how about move to one of the other 49 states with all their locales that are much more affordable. You want to live in the same tiny piece of land as every other idiot that would commit financial suicide to live in sfba. Sure, you think its nice, but its not that nice.

People still whining about sfba prices are starting to sound very whiny. Waaah waaah waaah, I can't afford sfba prices. Well guess what, either can I, so I choose to live somewhere else, with four seasons and low unemployment and affordable housing. Much more bang for your buck! You're not entitled to own a house in sfba, anymore then the next guy, so either pay the exorbitant prices or move somewhere you can afford

#harshreality

FunTime says

Just let go of all that American Dream-built-on-consumption and join those of us building financially secure lives. Pursue happiness without the influence of the psychological dread caused by at least a subconscious knowledge that you've bought way more than you will ever pay.

Totally agree. The only real draw towards home ownership for us is the permanence. Renters can be told to leave when it's necessary for the owner, or their rates raised at any moment. That's the scariest and worst part, the second part is minor, but it can matter to the heart a little, and that's the desire to paint the color of paint you like on the walls and make it your own haven without having to ask permission for every little touch you want to make, to own a pet, or have relatives stay with you for over a month - all without permission in writing. Being very conservative with our finances and trying to keep our priorities straight in this new culture is hard, but I have to admit, a lot less stressful than trying to own a home we really can't afford. Just because our parents and grandparents had a better way of life is no reason to get depressed - you are right. What will despair do to help? It's just hard some days when you realize that it's a small dream you have to let go of, and a dream I can't give to my children. We've worked so hard. I know it doesn't do any good to complain about how bad the USA has become. It's just hard to see our "great experiment" of a democracy turn into a plutocracy while the majority lives in ignorance, and the educated exult selfishness.

errc says

Or, how about move to one of the other 49 states with all their locales that are much more affordable. You want to live in the same tiny piece of land as every other idiot that would commit financial suicide to live in sfba. Sure, you think its nice, but its not that nice.

I hate the Bay Area. All the good and sane people are going North; that leaves us with an even more worthless place to live. My ageing family lives here, and not just mine but my husband's family. Both had us late in life and are getting to an age where outside help in inevitable. I need to stay close so I can help them out. My family (not my husband's) didn't save for extended medical care, and I learned with my mom that it can cost the children everything - if they can't continue to give them care from close by. I can't afford a nurse or cook for her, and a home is out of the question. My husband's family has extended care insurance, but I still don't want t to leave them as they are getting older, for good old fashion reasons, like love. I know a lot of people my age in the Bay with the same story. Not everyone WANTS to be here. This is where we grew up and our family lives. My brother just moved, but called in tears recently saying how he feels in exile from his loved ones and how he doesn't feel like seeing his nephews on facebook is the same as really being a part of their lives as they grow up. It's not always so simple, or black and white.

errc says

Or, how about move to one of the other 49 states with all their locales that are much more affordable.

I disagree with a priority order of first choose what house you will buy, next choose where you live. I think where you live matters a lot. I don't think at all that everyone will want to live the same place I live, so, yes, if you're living in a place you don't love AND you're experiencing financial insecurity you definitely want to evaluate where you live.

hrhjuliet says

What will despair do to help? It's just hard some days when you realize that it's a small dream you have to let go of, and a dream I can't give to my children.

I think you'll give your children replacement dreams with more lasting value.

hrhjuliet says

I hate the Bay Area. All the good and sane people are going North; that leaves us with an even more worthless place to live. My ageing family lives here, and not just mine but my husband's family. Both had us late in life and are getting to an age where outside help in inevitable. I need to stay close so I can help them out.

Tough situation.

hrhjuliet says

My brother just moved, but called in tears recently saying how he feels in exile from his loved ones and how he doesn't feel like seeing his nephews on facebook is the same as really being a part of their lives as they grow up. It's not always so simple, or black and white.

I am really sorry. I will say, this feeling will gradually diminish if not subside entirely. Your brother really needs to visit as much as possible -- that is the trick. It's almost like weaning yourself from an addiction. As far as family goes, abscess can actually make the heart grow fonder and connections stronger. The less we take something for granted, the harder we work at it.

JodyChunder says

As far as family goes, abscess can actually make the heart grow fonder and connections stronger.

I hope you are right. We are really close, and it's hard on all of us having him so far. Exile used to be something they did to people who created a great and unspeakable crime. Exile, by definition, is to be away from one's home (i.e. city, state or country), while either being explicitly refused permission to return and/or being threatened with imprisonment or death upon return. It can be a form of punishment and solitude.[1] Now, everyone in the Bay Area who isn't part of the 1%, or a real estate agent, investor or has outside financial help -like a rich parent/grandparent, is forced into exile. Or they could stay here in live in a substandard housing at a job that barely pays enough to save or live, and has more than likely taken their benefits and retirement away after 2009. So exile, or stay and be an indentured servant. The Bay Area is a feudalistic plutocracy full of crime, filth and superficial space cadets, but it's still my homeland, and my brother's. Wish it wasn't, but it is.

Phoenix has reached the bottom. Dont sell!!!!! Buy now!!!

http://www.azcentral.com/business/realestate/articles/20120727mystery-buyer-snaps-up-foreclosure-homes.html

“…and the evidence is more in the way the average family is being forced to live than in anything else.” WAH WAH WAH, jeeze the negative nancys are still all over the place here. IT DOESN’T HAVE TO BE THIS WAY, you need follow the example of the tycooooonlike author of this thread ROBERTO REALTORO and buy as many freakin’ houses as you possibly can, then rent them out to doomer loosers and you will be living the high style high life!!! BOOKABOOKACHINCHING

hrhjuliet says

The Bay Area is a feudalistic plutocracy full of crime, filth and superficial space cadets, but it's still my homeland, and my brother's. Wish it wasn't, but it is.

You just have to zoom out a little and remember that a Southwest ticket is a lot cheaper than the attendant premiums of collecting your mail in locale X.

I exiled myself some 27 years ago to the Mojave after my third and best wife died. Now, whenever I visit Telluride, I get a much a more dynamic experience of the city than I did when I was working and sleeping there. Plus, the distance has forced me to make a more concerted and creative effort at maintaining what I consider golden friendships. In the end, it's not always a bad thing, being uprooted, but it definitely makes you think and look at things differently and that is never a bad thing.

And keep in mind, your brother didn't move to the Bermuda Triangle. It's not exile, it's just a strategic move on his part. He's moving around the board like in a game of chess. There's nothing saying what will happen in 5-10 years, which will zip by before you even know it.

Robert you don't live in the bay area like most members out here. Phoenix is a different market.

Some markets are better to wait out, some aren't. CA has too many novice "investors" who are going to be losing their shirts along with everything else in the short term future.

It's almost as easy as shorting FB at IPO.

LOL @ Roberto Realtoro!

that right there is funny, I don't care who ya are!

We know that Realtors are of the devil.

jvolstad says

We know that Realtors are of the devil.

No, but they do tend to live in a fantasy world. They listen to each others hype and hope and pray the market stays insane for as long as it can, despite who it hurts in the end.

Anyone remember the 1980's when we had investors like Carlton Sheets and Tom Vu getting people to speculate as landlords? Many of them bought and rents remained stagnant for years. We are seeing a whole new crop of people who think being a landlord is easy as going to a free seminar.

Never buy anything in that hellhole full of illegal aliens.
Tomorrow 102F, Thursday 106F
The place is barely fit for a Mexican.
But I hear houses are a pretty good deal there.
Shit, for that matter, they are a very good deal in Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, and similar.
I'm sitting with my AAPL which is going to bring me so much capital gain I will buy a bay area house for cash in two years if the whim strikes.
Not ANY town either. East Bay and beyond are out of the picture.
Some guys brag that they have "positive cash flow". Wow. That's so amazing to have.
Try some capital gains on for size sometime.

To Hjhrjuliet: Your email sounds like a very depressed situation. Sorry you feel that way but it is not true you cannot buy in the Bay area. Of course there are some areas you cannot buy in but that is true for everyone. Also I really don't know to many parents in fact none that I know that each parent is working 2 jobs each unless they ar part time jobs. Are you willing to make sacrifices and live in an area that is not the best for a while to get started? Are you willing to make an extra 30-45 minute commute if needed? You say only 1% or a RE agent can afford a home? That is not true at all. Many of my sons friends who are in their 20's and early 30's are buying their first homes and paying under $2k per month in many areas of the Bay Area. Not in SF true but all around the East Bay, North Bay, Solano County, Oakland,even some in San Rafael. Some have small down payments of 3.5%. We are not rntitled to live in the Bay area. No one is. Like others said..It is not that great to be honest, It has a lot od issues you don't fnd outside the Bay Area so their are other choices also all within an hour from the Bay area. What about Pleasatn hill, Concord, Oakland, El Cerrito, Good areas of Richmond, Hercules, El Sobrante,Tara Hills,Parts of marin,Pinole, Novato, Petaluma, most of these areas have prices from $200k- $400k which means your payment can be around$1200-$2400 per month PITI included. Like your parents and my parents and I did...Buy a small starter home in an OK area and build from that. Sacrifice and save your $$. Don't waste your money on things you don't need or want.The opportunity is there.

The sign is photoshopped.

errc says

Or, how about move to one of the other 49 states with all their locales that are much more affordable. You want to live in the same tiny piece of land as every other idiot that would commit financial suicide to live in sfba. Sure, you think its nice, but its not that nice.

But it's worth a lifetime of debt slavery to live in a place with "nice" weather! ;-)

errc says

Or, how about move to one of the other 49 states with all their locales that are much more affordable. You want to live in the same tiny piece of land as every other idiot that would commit financial suicide to live in sfba. Sure, you think its nice, but its not that nice.

People still whining about sfba prices are starting to sound very whiny. Waaah waaah waaah, I can't afford sfba prices. Well guess what, either can I, so I choose to live somewhere else, with four seasons and low unemployment and affordable housing. Much more bang for your buck! You're not entitled to own a house in sfba, anymore then the next guy, so either pay the exorbitant prices or move somewhere you can afford

#harshreality

@errc

Or stay here, don't buy a house and save a lot of money. For me, I am not on the edge of my seat waiting for prices to fall. If they don't, that is fine, but I don't think I am going to buy one of these crappy houses and mortgage my future. It feels a tiny bit weird to plan to rent for the rest of my life, but it is a fine enough choice. The only problem is that if some huge financial collapse happens where money loses value and it somehow keeps you safe to own a house.

One thing that I think this site does really well is to get me informed about the actual costs of renting and the actual costs of buying in the SFBA. It helps me defend myself against the hype of buying. It doesn't guarantee me that prices will fall. There are no promises. I do think that the fundamentals don't support these prices, but that is more like a parlor game. My guess is that this can't last. I don't make that bet because I am fiending for a house, I make that bet because I am a smart person who has ideas about the world.

If there is such a huge financial collapse such that housing is your only savior you better have stored up a LOT of yams and ammo!

I'm not convinced that paying exorbitant rent is much better than paying exorbitant purchase price

Here in SE PA (pennsylvania not palo alto), one can buy 5-10 acres and custom build the house of their dreams for 250k-300k. I'm not sure what the utility of coastal californian land is that warrants house (land) prices at many multiples of the rest of the country. I guess it boils down to the limited supply of land with restrictive zonig relative to the amount of suckers I mean people that are still mezmorized by the gold rush mentality "california is so effing cool". I like the led zeppelin song Going to Calif also, but I'm not so easily duped by marketeering

Housing is just a consumption item to me. Its utility is as shelter, it carrys a cost. Math comes easy to me, so it was never a big question as to how much can I possibly afford. It was more a decision as to what makes sense, and how can I make it work for me, rather then against me. What with all the tough times in the economy, I've been able to share my extra space with boarders. Its nice to have people to split the utilities with, and they can watch the dog when I travel.. that, and they pay my mortgage

errc says

I guess it boils down to the limited supply of land with restrictive zonig relative to the amount of suckers I mean people that are still mezmorized by the gold rush mentality "california is so effing cool".

$500k is a lot of money for a small parcel of dirt. But as the old saying goes, everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it.

freak80 says

But as the old saying goes, everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it.

It's not true though, IMHO.

Tulips were never worth what the insane Dutch were paying for them in their bubble.

One lemming's overpayment should not be used as proof that all other lemmings must follow him off the cliff.

freak80 says

But as the old saying goes, everything is worth what it's purchaser will pay for it.

The problem with this saying is, it ignores a huge elephant in the room. It's called human behavior. Humans tend to think in herds sometimes and set themselves up for a disaster.

It's not true though, IMHO.
Tulips were never worth what the insane Dutch were paying for them in their bubble.

I agree...it's crazy.

But no one ever claimed humans were rational. We're emotional beings.

That's probably why religion exists. It's hard to explain rationally. But as the old joke goes, "there are no atheists in foxholes."

uomo_senza_nome says

Humans tend to think in herds sometimes and set themselves up for a disaster.

"It's true because we believe it."

"A lie told a thousand times becomes the truth."

Groupthink is the most powerful force in the universe, after compound interest.