nemo
invite response
2012 Dec 9, 3:01pm 12,433 views 38 comments
by thankshousingbubble ➕follow (7) 💰tip ignore
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holy christ, nobody ever said they are buying all the homes; simply put, they are investing more than they were before. A LOT MORE.
But the premise always behind these stories seems to be as a sort of scare tactic- as in those Americans looking to buy houses better do it now now now, or those "foreigners" will buy em' all up. The truth of the matter is the impact of them buying here is a tiny, barely measurable blip on the radar and certainly not enough to create a shift in the dynamics.
Nobody ever said it was a huge market wide change.
It's a statistically insignificant change in the market.
Also, the last stat that I saw in an article posted here stated that 10% of all RE sales in CA were to Foreigners
That includes commercial, not just residential.
bmwman91
2012 Dec 10, 6:32am
that was 7 years ago, I don't see from anything i've read, that it has become any more sane!!!!
The government is imposing a hefty "capital gains" tax on the sale of non-primary residences in Shanghai. The working class people are so priced-out that even the government knows that they need to do something about it, and they are starting to. At least they are being a hell of a lot smarter about the affordability problem and trying to push prices lower instead of lowering lending standards.
But, you are mostly right. It is still not sane by any definition.
I used to talk about this with other foreigners I knew in Shanghai... The apartment I rented for $400 a month including all utilities (very nice place, the metro rail station was actually in the building basement... a HUGE convenience in shanghai) was selling then for about $150K wtf? today who knows its probably 3 times as much.
I think the reason behind this is that the economies around there have been so iffy in the past, that $400 might be real low, but over time that house will still have value, where as the money they're saving with might not. It seems that the rent vs buy mantra only works in strong and consistent economies. Those that are "iffy" people pay premiums for homes because they figure it's a hedge against losing it all. I have seen this in several countries where currencies are iffy, or don't normally survive more than a decade or two.
Chinese are buying here, because they can. They're getting more and more money out of their country these days. The government usually frowns upon this, but they're willing to risk it for whatever reason. Probably because they see it as a much safer bet than land in china.
RentingForHalfTheCost
2012 Dec 10, 8:08am
For $7 Billion they could have bought Arizona! Renamed it to Ru-Xiona and used their Ku-Fu prowess to beat up on the NRA die-hards.
Homeboy
2012 Dec 10, 11:49am
Roberto, did you delete my posts? Seriously? Can't hack it in a real debate where you actually have to address the facts, hmmm....?
bmwman91
2012 Dec 10, 12:45pm
Dude, Roberto, you should use the ignore function. It's wildly handy.
Homeboy
2012 Dec 10, 3:00pm
you didn't post any facts... you posted useless personal insults.
You know that's a lie. And you started the insults, so you're just being a hypocrite.
Homeboy
2012 Dec 10, 3:01pm
I used my zen like calm, and deleted the offensive posts... if he chooses to actually discuss substantive ideas, he is welcome back!
I DID discuss substantive ideas, and you deleted them, because you didn't want to admit you were wrong.
bmwman91
2012 Dec 10, 3:35pm
You are doing well for yourself in Phoenix. Phoenix saw some of the craziest rises in valuations relative to incomes during the bubble, and it under-shot the mean line during the crash. If I had to guess, some of the upside being seen may well be the momentum of the herd moving into the area despite it probably being back at or above the mean line. You got in heavily while it was still below that line, so you'll likely be fine no matter what. Hell, if the herd stays on the stampede, you might be able to find some greater fools to quadruple the cash you put in.
Now, acknowledging that, you have to keep in mind that you are an economics academic that is heavily into RE investment, posting about your exploits on a forum primarily inhabited by residents of the SF Bay Area with day jobs that want to buy one house just to live in.
Prime areas of the SFBA saw, at most, 20% declines from bubble prices after the crash, and these areas are seeing many instances of properties changing hands at prices in excess of those seen in 2006. Even the less desirable parts of the "real" Bay Area only saw modest price declines, and as of now the only stuff on the MLS is basically crap next to highways, tear-downs and stuff along SJ Intl's primary flight paths. This is the case on Redfin and Zillow with the following parameters: $800k max price, 6000SF lot minimum, SFH with garage. Between wealthy Asian immigrants and people on the FHA dole (you can get a $729k loan with 3.5% down and a FICO of 580 in the prime counties) it's a real shit show. Mix in the insane low inventories, heavy investor activity and the numerous sweetheart deals that RE agents hook themselves and flippers up with and it is almost comical.
While you are not making things up in your posts, it basically comes off like stuffing salt into wounds when someone talks about how they are making tons of money on RE when most people here have no interest in that and are still really irritated by the wild speculation that blew this place up not too long ago. Hopefully the reasons why a number of posters here react negatively to you are a little more clear. I think that Patrick might want to look into creating a RE Investing sub-forum so that you & the others that make some or all of their living on this stuff have a place to swap advice and discuss their trade.
absolutely. In Phoenix, it certainly was 12 to 24 months ago.
You should really start using the phrase, "In Phoenix. . . . " at the beginning of each of your posts.
And just a little FYI, that little recovery/non recovery has increased my net worth to around 1.5 million, on the 400K of bubble money I put into this game.
So you have $1.5 million in the bank? Or are you counting paper gains on your houses? I'm guessing the latter. . .
bmwman91
2012 Dec 10, 5:11pm
screw housing investment in areas where it is overpriced, find something else to put your energy into!
Absolutely. Thankfully, I have hobbies that I can engage in and enjoy 7 days a week! Running, biking, hiking, rock climbing, embedded controls, woodworking, metal working, car projects...man, I wish I had more free time! A lot of my hobbies benefit greatly from the fact that there is no weather here, and I also have a lot of family in the area. I'd just say "screw it" and leave, but for now it is worth putting up with the throngs of people living here whose list of hobbies has a single entry: make money. The housing thing is increasingly starting to irritate me because rents are going nuts now. If it was still just confined to people bidding on old wooden boxes, I'd be more mellow. Now the stupidity is infecting rentals!
I hear people here complain about the weather sometimes. Get the fuck outta here with that lol. The only time they see the weather is when they are walking to or from their cars. Actually, I am glad that most people here are not all that into the outdoors. The trails and climbing crags are crowded enough as it is!
bmwman91
2012 Dec 10, 5:14pm
I went to Berkeley.
Too bad you didn't get into Stanford.
What does that have to do with anything? I know some very smart, successful people with diplomas form Stanford. I also know some squarely-average desk-jockeys that have diplomas form there that aren't doing anything remarkable at all. And some are just plain WEIRD. It's bad form to try to rip on someone about where they got their degree as if that makes any difference to anyone outside of douche-bag social circles.
ducsingle5313 says
robertoaribas says
I went to Berkeley.
Too bad you didn't get into Stanford.
What does that have to do with anything?
Just about as much as somebody mentioning that they went to Berkeley in the first place.
lisalisa
2012 Dec 10, 8:57pm
I went to Berkeley.
...as confucius say... man with too much ego, wear his dick on chin.
Not pleasant to see, but canine will lick masters face all day.
lostand confused
2012 Dec 10, 9:26pm
...as confucius say... man with too much ego, wear his dick on chin.
Not pleasant to see, but canine will lick masters face all day.
Who was it the other day, who threw a massive hissy fit when someone said the c*nt word. Yet it is perfectly ok to call a man a dick . Typical.
lisalisa
2012 Dec 10, 10:37pm
...as confucius say... man with too much ego, wear his dick on chin.
Not pleasant to see, but canine will lick masters face all day.
Who was it the other day, who threw a massive hissy fit when someone said the "c" word. Yet it is perfectly ok to call a man a dick . Typical.
Not just any man... and not every man
Since you didn't bother with the rest of the sentence, my comment about going to Berkeley was in reference to having lived in the bay area...
Then why didn't you just say, "I lived in the Bay Area as a student from X to Y?"
Your posts seem to contain a lot of "Look at me, I'm successful dammit, look at me!" content that has little relevance to the subject being discussed.
Berkeley is a really great school. It's a shame your spot was wasted on someone who resorts to pre-adolescent name calling.
wow the rude idiots are coming in crowds! ducsingle: you seem to have a bunch of problems with your jealousy, to wit:
1. my graduate studies at UC Berkeley, of mathematics applied to economics. One might think that might be significant on a housing blog, about studying bubbles, but i guess to you that is simply bragging. Because, a hell of a lot of mathematical knowledge about markets, and decade of studying bubbles couldn't really help or anything...
2. acting on my studies, analyzing the market, and buying homes, which have now appreciated by roughly a million dollars.
A smarter person than you would say, "hmmm, that is interesting, maybe I can learn something from that..." but then again, you don't seem to be that smarter person, and instead choose to insult the very housing acumen that warrants study.
Wow, your shit don't stink. We're lucky to have such a valuable contributor on this site. Please continue to provide updates on your net worth on a weekly basis as the information is incredibly captivating.
Net worth is boring. Net income from properties would be amazing.
Anyone can make net wealth numbers up, and they're completely debatable. I think yours are realistic, but net income from properties is easier for most to understand.
You're probably making more profit per month, than most of these people make working their jobs.
Nice! So nearly 60K in income. Well above the median income of the US! With essentially no job! Forget about appreciation, who wouldn't love to have 60K/year in income for the rest of their lives? While rents might change from year to year, and might even drop, over time they will keep paying out a good amount. 60K/year is a good retirement income!
Also, the last stat that I saw in an article posted here stated that 10% of all RE sales in CA were to Foreigners, primarily Chinese. These sales were mostly in the SFBA, and from what I have seen I'd guess that a good 20% of sales here are to Mandarins.
But, I'll bet that most of those are to foreign citizens, but living here on green card or H1B. Not to people living overseas and buying here.
RentingForHalfTheCost
2012 Dec 12, 6:16am
With essentially no job!
Have you ever been a landlord?
Interesting that it is called a 'landlord' and not 'houselord'. Probably because most of the houses that make people landlords are not worth calling them a house. More like a shack, or pile of useless old wood and nails. ;)
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