patrick.net

you sound like you've thought it out enough that you have thoroughly convinced yourself. my take, after being a lifelong renter and sometime- 'live in' apartment manager, don't bother. do the purely superficial things that will make a marked improvement to daily life now--buy totally movable bookshelves that you are sure you can take with you and will work wherever you end up moving. paint the walls. put up your own ceiling fan (and put his yucky one back before you leave), etc. but do NOT do anything that will permanently improve his property or could even be construed (oddly enough) as 'damaging' it.

for one, even if you get all of these conditions specified in writing and so on, the man would be a fool not to try to either get higher rent from you or from someone else out on the open market. for two, you plan on eventually purchasing--save all of your own money for your own house where you will probably end up doing most or all of these things for your own benefit anyway. the more you save now, the quicker that home purchase and all of those renovations can begin.

you just don't sound like you'll be there for the next 5-10 years, so as much as it pains you to look at the carpet (and you might think about having it cleaned professionaly. some carpets do look totally different afterwards) it's a much better and more cost-effective plan, in my eyes, to save that money for a project that will benefit you in a long-term way. everyone else has already made the relevant financial points.

for all you know, the landlord relies upon the 'somewhat grungy but steal of a price' to not only avoid spending money, but because having that 'great place by the beach' keeps his units from experiencing high or even normal turnover, and he probably has NO trouble renting them out when they do. no matter how nice the things you want to put in are, i would be wary of them if i owned or managed the place. you'll probably have to run everything by him well in advance and receive his seal of approval, as this stuff is sticking around long after you go and then he'll either have to pay to maintain or replace it if it isn't marketable enough. on the other hand, he might just be going "great! more money I don't have to spend on upkeep." it rather rewards him for being lax on maintenance---with YOUR money!

My wife and I did this.

We couldn't find the combination of reasonable rent, reasonable location, garage, and one cat allowed so we rented a dump for $200-$300 less a month than nice places which got one or more things wrong would have run and spent $2000 on improvements in the form of removing the carpet and refinishing the underlying hardwood, putting new linoleum in the kitchen, new blinds to keep light out, and new light fixtures bright enough to see with.

We broke even on the deal before the end of the first year.

My wife also planted and maintains gardens. The enjoyment we get from that is more than worth what we're spending to beautify the property.

OTOH, I wouldn't spend more than I could afford to loose or would need to amortize over a longer rental with common walls.

Only your landlord can control who lives in the attached units and he/she is not allowed to exclude small children whose parents are then free to allow them to run amok, scream, bounce balls on the floor, etc. at all hours of the day and night with the official police opinion being that you can't do anything about it legally (like if you had neighbors who merely liked to play their stereo loud) and that you pretty much need to move.

I would fix it up, but only low cost cosmetic work you can do yourself. I'm in the same situation - am renting a cute little house in a very high end neighborhood of Seattle. But the owner has not done any maintenance on the house and it looked awful inside. I did only cosmetic, low cost upgrades (painted the entire inside, replaced a few light fixtures, curtain rails and curtains, kitchen cabinet doorknobs, and kept the originals to re-install when I leave). The carpet is nasty so I bought some nice large rugs to put over the carpet, that I can also take with me when I move.
That's good that you plan to get a 3 yr lease with no rental increase.

rob rankles says

how old it the carpet? Landlords are required to change them after some period of time….I think maybe 10 years.
I think you are right to pay some money to fix up your place, especially if you are happy there, and the rent is cheap.
Really though you should cut a deal with your landlord to pay half of the improvements if not all. Have you directly asked him/her if they would be willing to pay?

They are? Where do you get that from?

BTW, many landlords really can't get any tax deductions because of the passive loss limitations rules, which kick in at an AGI of only $100K.

For the OP, I'd consider these upgrades a luxury and wonder if the money wouldn't be better spent on upgrade projects in your own house when you buy one in three years.

HORRIBLE IDEA.

I don't mean to be rude, but I can't think of any reason why you would want to do this.

To start off, I think it is a horrible idea to use your money to improve someone elses place, unless you have a long term lease in place or you will be getting rent concessions, etc. for the labor and cost of materials. It doesn't sound like you have either of these.

3 years is a long time in the landlord/tenant world and a lot can change over that time period. What if your landlord gets foreclosed on? What if he sells the unit to a person who is not as easy going? What if an obnoxious person moves in next door and you want to split?

Be careful of liability and indemnity issues if/when you do the improvements. Eventually you will move out and you won't be taking the improvements with you. What if your work causes damages to other parts of the condo, e.g. water leaks, mold, etc.

Are you a licensed contractor? Do you have insurance?

GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING! OR ELSE BE PREPARED TO LOSE YOUR ENTIRE SECURITY DEPOSIT AND MAYBE EVEN GET SUED FOR DAMAGES.

California Attorney says

Be careful of liability and indemnity issues if/when you do the improvements. Eventually you will move out and you won’t be taking the improvements with you. What if your work causes damages to other parts of the condo, e.g. water leaks, mold, etc.

Are you a licensed contractor? Do you have insurance?

GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING! OR ELSE BE PREPARED TO LOSE YOUR ENTIRE SECURITY DEPOSIT AND MAYBE EVEN GET SUED FOR DAMAGES.

And then lawyers will yell at you!

I have to agree 100% with @California Attorney on this one. I wouldn't do a damn thing to another's place for all reasons well-reasoned out by CA.

commonsense says

I have to agree 100% with @California Attorney on this one. I wouldn’t do a damn thing to another’s place for all reasons well-reasoned out by CA.

And for the LL's POV, I wouldn't let the tenant do the work, or pay him as a handyman - what if the tenant/handyman injures himself or burns down the house while doing these improvements? There may be some minor improvements, adding a screen door, for example, the tenant can perform without much risk, but eletrical wiring, plumbing, and the like (much of which probably can't legally be done by a handyman and requires permits) probably wouldn't be on the list in most cases.

I think your plan is so great.
I lived in Berkeley for 5 years and fixed up my rental on the cheap.

after year two I painted the whole place. replaced the plastic floor in the bathroom. had to take the toilet and sink out and also replace floor trim. rechalked the tub too and painted

I put free tile down in the kitchen.

never said a thing to the managment company.
lived there for three more years. loved that place!
when I left I got all my deposit back in two weeks.

Your landlord will love the small upgrades.
take photo dated pics of before and after just in case.

It's such a win win for everybody if done right IMO.

Katy Perry says

I think your plan is so great.

I lived in Berkeley for 5 years and fixed up my rental on the cheap.
after year two I painted the whole place. replaced the plastic floor in the bathroom. had to take the toilet and sink out and also replace floor trim. rechalked the tub too and painted
I put free tile down in the kitchen.
never said a thing to the managment company.

lived there for three more years. loved that place!

when I left I got all my deposit back in two weeks.
Your landlord will love the small upgrades.

take photo dated pics of before and after just in case.
It’s such a win win for everybody if done right IMO.

Your LL may or may not love (or notice) such improvements. These are a violation of most leases if done without prior permission, however. I can't imagine the taste and priorities of all tenants are the same as all of their landlords.

California Attorney says

I don’t mean to be rude, but I can’t think of any reason why you would want to do this.

um because you want a nicer place. NOW.

Some/ Most Landlords don't do the work otherwise.

you don't want people in your place.

you want the work done , and not just talked about.

you don't live afraid all the time.

you take action when and where you want.

you know the realitys of a real tenant /landloard relationship.

You're a really good tenant. one of the best.

if you mess this up somehow. then I guess you lose your deposit,.....or get sued in CA,.... or fix the issue and all issues that where found during the Exit walk through inspection.

Come on folks this isn't that hard.

The only time I've lost a deposit is when they landlord just keeps it for what ever reason the make up at the time.

With the rental I'm in now I have with permission hung two bedroom doors trim and all. with out permission I have. fixed holes in stucco and wall board, maintained irrigation system turned a den into a bedroom by hanging a door and putting up a wall using soundboard and 2x4, and changed all locks. I've also installed an RO water system under the kitchen sink. I will remove water system, den wall and door and change locks back when I leave. we also put walking carpet over all high traffic carpet areas. fixed holes in walls that where there before we moved in.,..and repaired toilets issues. I photo doc all work and have a 2 million general liability policy that I'm sure won't cover me anyways. so sue me Ha Ha Ha!

The only time I've ever heard from our landlady in three years is when she called to ask if she could raise the rent a year ago. I never called her back. have not heard from her since.

Katy Perry says

With the rental I’m in now I have with permission hung two bedroom doors trim and all. with out permission I have. fixed holes in stucco and wall board, maintained irrigation system turned a den into a bedroom by hanging a door and putting up a wall using soundboard and 2×4, and changed all locks. I’ve also installed an RO water system under the kitchen sink. I will remove water system, den wall and door and change locks back when I leave. we also put walking carpet over all high traffic carpet areas. fixed holes in walls that where there before we moved in.,..and repaired toilets issues. I photo doc all work and have a 2 million general liability policy that I’m sure won’t cover me anyways. so sue me Ha Ha Ha!
The only time I’ve ever heard from our landlady in three years is when she called to ask if she could raise the rent a year ago. I never called her back. have not heard from her since.

Another lease violation - unless you provided LL with a copy of the new keys. Some LLs may view you as one of the best, but if one of the best is a repeat lease violator, then pity the LLs. Considering most LLs don't call to ask to raise the rent, perhaps your situation is a little different from the avg renters. Many LLs would have said yes, sure, to all you have done, or much of it, so not sure why you don't ask. The photos may document you have improved things, but they may also document lease violations, depending on your lease. The textbook answer for what you want to do is get permission from landlord, move to a better place that is better maintained and upgraded, or buy a house.

I am in a similar situation. Plan to do many minor improvements in my spare time. Landlord willing to pay for materials.
I would ask the landlord for free rent at back end, 2 or 3 months. Give him all receipts now for his taxes, keeping a copy for yourself. Repairs are a write off in the same year, Improvements are depreciated. This way the money he gives you in free rent at the end is what you already saved him in taxes. Then he can increase the rent for the next tennant all his profit of your investment. You will spend a little less, it will cost him nothing.
You both win..

I've done this and would recommend it if you have a good relationship with your landlord and are in a long term rental situation.

My husband and I moved into a below market rental that needed some work eleven years ago. We weren't the first to see it, or apply, but I knew it was a deal and it was in the exact area where we would buy if we could. I offered a full year of rent up front to get the place over the 20 or so people who handed in applications ahead of us.

Over the years, Landlord has done everything we've asked: new carpet, central heating, fixed the hot tub, new dryer, re-tiled bathroom, new fridge, exhaust fan in the kitchen, new stove, new windows in the whole place, and is planning to paint the outside this summer. We've done other work to make the place nicer -- completely removed a large overgrown garden and replanted, built an 8 x 10 shed/office with electrical, put in a large bluestone patio, painted most of the interior rooms. We've also done all the legwork for the things that they paid for. For example, when we told them we needed a new stove, they told us to shop around for something reasonable and just send them the bill.

They are great landlords and we are great tenants.

I will say that most of the work (other than the shed and patio) that we have done involved more sweat than money. We were considering moving to a place where we could have an office -- and I got the shed in a barter deal, so it was the reason we stayed. The patio and shed can go with us if we ever move. After 11 years we are still way below market.

I wouldn't consider paying for ANY improvements if I didn't really like my place, my landlord, and my current rent.

Good Luck.

California Attorney says

Be careful of liability and indemnity issues if/when you do the improvements. Eventually you will move out and you won’t be taking the improvements with you. What if your work causes damages to other parts of the condo, e.g. water leaks, mold, etc.
Are you a licensed contractor? Do you have insurance?
GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING! OR ELSE BE PREPARED TO LOSE YOUR ENTIRE SECURITY DEPOSIT AND MAYBE EVEN GET SUED FOR DAMAGES.

I don't think you are rude at all. I will get it in writing. Everything by licensed, bonded professionals. Only planning to paint myself. I appreciate your feedback.

Eddo says

I like the idea of you making improvements to your place but hiring Home Depot is a bad idea. When you hiring Home Depot, they hire a contractor. Home Depot acts like a middle man. It will be wise for you to ask Home Depot for an estimate. Then go out on your own and look for a private contractor and ask them if they can beat the price Home Depot is asking for. The only concern you might have is how can I trust a private contractor?

I am waiting on the second estimate from Home Depot at this point. I had gotten one about 6 months ago that expired. I told them at the time I wanted to wait until summer to actually do the work. For whatever reason, they wanted to measure again. Of course, I am not paying a fee for that.

My thought about HD is that I don't want to deal with finding, evaluating and monitoring a contractor. I figure that HD wouldn't keep a contractor that totally messed up jobs. It would just have to be too inconvenient. I did get an estimate from Empire. It was much higher than HD with cheaper quality materials. I do have one other estimate to come in from a smaller company. I will see how the prices add up and if they would match HD.

At some point, I want to hire someone to just take care of this for me. I think folks are assuming that because I want to fix up my rental or that I am renting, I am broke. I have a good job and make a pretty good amount of money. The issue is that it will take about 200K for a down payment in Norcal. AND, I want to wait until the prices are falling less than they are now in this market. I am a serious saver. I save about 25% of my income. 15% goes to retirement, I just finished saving ~6 months of emergency savings. 5% goes to a college fund. I can afford this or I wouldn't do it. At the same time, I don't want to be stupid about the liability or frivolous about what I spend.

I really appreciate people taking the time to comment on my plan.

I really think quality of life isn't a dollars and cent measure. If you feel some small improvement are worth it to you go ahead. Now the can lighting and some of the other cosmetic changes are debatable expensive. But I hate dirty carpets also, maybe a good deep cleaning is my choice. To even consider new flooring, then it's got to be really awful carpet.

JG1 says

Another lease violation - unless you provided LL with a copy of the new keys. Some LLs may view you as one of the best, but if one of the best is a repeat lease violator, then pity the LLs. Considering most LLs don’t call to ask to raise the rent, perhaps your situation is a little different from the avg renters. Many LLs would have said yes, sure, to all you have done, or much of it, so not sure why you don’t ask. The photos may document you have improved things, but they may also document lease violations, depending on your lease. The textbook answer for what you want to do is get permission from landlord, move to a better place that is better maintained and upgraded, or buy a house.

I think what I forgot to say was I'm from the school of it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Plus in So Cal LL's just try and keep your deposit as a rule. so what do you have to lose? really Sue me Hahahaha! get in line,.. hahaha!

I mean do ya just put in a cat door or do you give the LL $800 bucks after asking to put in a Cat door. this really happened to a girlfriend of mine back in 2004 in Oakland.

LL's aren't all cool IMO.

Update: We are on our way into fixing things up. I just couldn't take the looks of the place.

Packing and painting: We did this in a weekend. It looks awesome. I ended up paying the lady who helps me clean to help me pack and paint. The whole thing cost about 600.

Floors: I had an estimate from HomeDepot of 2600 to put laminate in the front half of the house. I consulted a contractor who works in our community. He gave me a better price on both materials and labor to put hardwood in the entire house. No carpet anywhere. We are about half done with that. It looks awesome. 3600 gets all of it - the kitchen and2 bedrooms, hall, front room and dining area with engineered hardwoods. If I had it to do again, I would go to lumber liquidators. I could have shaved some off by buying from them.They have some hardwoods as low as 1 dollar a square foot. THe stuff I got from the contractor is nicer than that. I am happy with it.

Blinds - just did these in the front room. It was a pain to install them. 200 dollars. Totally worth it. Light when I want it. Privacy when I want it. No filthy 1970s broken mess in my windows.

What is left?
Shelving - I am installing some IKEA shelving to make better use of the space. It is stuff that I could take with me if we leave. I think the cost will be lower than what I originally put in the budget. I got the layout and materials list last week. 900 for materials, 400 for installation. Maybe some extras with lighting and inserts 100-200. I think we will end up around 1500.

Lights and fan. I am going to see what everything looks like after the installations are done. I was going to do the fan as a father's day present for my husband. THat man really loves to sleep with the fan on. That may still come to pass.

Landlord likes the work. Isn't complaining about a lease violation. Isn't going up on the rent.

Katy Perry says

I think what I forgot to say was I’m from the school of it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Plus in So Cal LL’s just try and keep your deposit as a rule. so what do you have to lose? really Sue me Hahahaha! get in line,.. hahaha!
I mean do ya just put in a cat door or do you give the LL $800 bucks after asking to put in a Cat door. this really happened to a girlfriend of mine back in 2004 in Oakland.
LL’s aren’t all cool IMO.

Depends who your LL is IMO.

FWIW, in the own vs rent thingy....I just had two recent experiences in my place that would have cost quite a bit as owner. But my LL took care of the problems same day. Both were newish items FWIW(building gutted and rebuilt in 2006-2007). First was the electric thermostat went out. Not a reset...completely failed. Replaced same day. I have no idea of cost, but I'm guessing its pricey. Second was a cabinet hinge failed. The cabinet door is REALLY heavy, and the whole door came crashing down after the weight tore it off the bottom hinge(ie, the door is now unusable). Replaced same day.

Nice to have so many not my problems.

Landlord is required to maintain the place, that is the law in CA. Otherwise you can take him to court. Simply ask him to do proper maintenance. If he doesnt maintain it, court might and often does force landlord to fix it and allow you not to pay rent until he does depending on severity of the situation.

CA law is on your side as a renter, not on a side of an ahole slumlord.

BG1, we faced the same decision renting. I wanted to replace our carpeting with new berber, spending $5-$6K (we rent a big place). The property manager is a real pain and she insisted on a particular type of carpeting. I said no way, Im paying and left the carpeting as is. It wasnt that bad.

We thought we would be here only two years. Four years have passed. Am I glad I didnt make the purchase?...Im split. I still hate the carpeting, but I saved $5-$6k to put into the place we are buying next week. My LL is nice, but a cheap a$$. He didnt replaced the original oven which is twenty plus years old, and Ive been shelling out $3,800/month for 4 years which means he made $145K in rent. Still needs to put in about $20-$25K to make the place worth the price in money, but because it is big and in a good neighborhood, all he is doing for the new tenant is putting in..a new oven.

I would try to get a concession from the landlord. Ask for a three year lease, with the option from you alone to terminate the lease annually (not him), in case you want to leave or buy. It costs money for the landlord to lease your place, and you are giving him a double gift by remodeling the place, for which he should be grateful.