patrick.net

"Sanctuary" laws are yet more proof that Democrats are for dissolving the border:

https://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-justice/424809-a-hard-lesson-sanctuary-laws-present-clear-and-present-danger

A law that is not enforced is not a law at all. "Sanctuary" laws come entirely from Democrats who are explicitly advocating that anyone who got here illegally is to be forgiven for that crime.

It's like saying that Democrats are against bank robbery when they pass "sanctuary" laws that allow anyone who robs a bank to keep the money. Clearly they are actively promoting bank robbery by such a law.

Patrick says

marcus says

So somehow the fact that congress won't give Trump the first $5.7 of his $30 billion dollar wall, means that democrats are for dissolving the border ?

Yes, actually.

It's very closely analogous to Angela Merkel's deliberate importation of more than a million young men from the mideast and Africa. She, and the Democrats (and most Republican politicians, to be honest) simply want to drive down wages for native citizens, because that's what globalist businesses want. Helps profits to pay workers less, you know.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/07/the_border_liberals_and_the_left.html

Sure. Then they hire illegal gardeners, nannies, and housekeepers complete w virtue signaling how amazing they are to allow these $6/hour brown people into their Hollywood hills home and trump is racist for wanting to build a wall.

Feels good to be righteous, rich, and clueless

Patrick says

It's like saying that Democrats are against bank robbery when they pass "sanctuary" laws that allow anyone who robs a bank to keep the money. Clearly they are actively promoting bank robbery by such a law.

I wonder if they print separate ballots for local only vs. general elections when they allow voting.

I have a feeling they don't, but just "ask" that the non-citizen not vote for Federal Officers. Or don't even mention it.

Patrick says

Nice tits.

Interesting tattoo.

Rocketmanjoe says

I believe e-verify would be much easier, quicker, have a lower price tag to rollout and would be far more effective than a wall.

We need that AND a wall.

Hollywood to release video of Trump leading the 4th Guards “Kantemirovskaya” Tank Division at the border.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russias-next-big-military-sale-mexico-26371

Patrick says

marcus says

So somehow the fact that congress won't give Trump the first $5.7 of his $30 billion dollar wall, means that democrats are for dissolving the border ?

Yes, actually.

It's very closely analogous to Angela Merkel's deliberate importation of more than a million young men from the mideast and Africa. She, and the Democrats (and most Republican politicians, to be honest) simply want to drive down wages for native citizens, because that's what globalist businesses want. Helps profits to pay workers less, you know.

You will never admit to the dishonesty in this.

How do you square the massive build up in border security and the reduced numbers of incoming illegals, that experts say will be unaffected by the wall ?

Meanwhile we are at virtually full employment ! Why isn't Trump pushing for laws against hiring illegals - even for small construction jobs, landscaping, and childcare ? Why do his country clubs actually protect illegals ?

He's fighting for a wall, becasue it works in the us against them mindless BS his Cucks want to see. Can you at least admit that it's pure politics ? Even otherwise intelligent TrumpCucks sell the lies right along with TRump.

His wall is not likely to do all that much, especially not just the first fifth of it. What the fuck, you guys just exploded the deficit to give rich folks new Yachts or enhanced trust funds for their kids. Now you want to buy a $30 billion dollar wall when the experts say it won't do much ?





You're just defending Trump's lies.

I would imagine that the guys in Mexico that sell border crossing services must be really licking their chops !! We're talking a major Ca-ching after the wall. We all know that the corrupt law enforcement on that side, and probably this side too will be in on it. I wonder if there is a way for Trump's friends to get a piece of the action? (that is on top of the steel and construction businesses that we already know will cash in.

Does Halliburton build walls ?

willywonka says

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russias-next-big-military-sale-mexico-26371

“Russia’s naval workhorse, the Ka-27, has comparable capabilities, and would likely to be much cheaper, if it were made available.”.... Sputnik wrote last week.

Waporware and fake news from a propaganda outlet. Fucking Russians have fucking lost their helicopter engine supplier (Motor-Sich) when they attacked Ukraine in 2014. Since then they have been desperately trying to start producing their own helicopter engines using some equipment they stole from a factory in Donbass region they occupied, but this turned out to be not enough. The same story is with marine turbine engines, BTW: they can't launch several navy ships due to loss of another Ukrainian supplier.

#fuckingmorons

marcus says

You're just defending Trump's lies.

Which lie is that? (Watch him dodge, again)

marcus says

You will never admit to the dishonesty in this.

What is it w the ideologues accusing everyone of dishonesty? Point out the actual dishonesty or stfu, it's just flaming to call everyone a liar w no supporting facts

Folks, Trump is the president and therefore at the end of the day responsible in the eyes of people.

Democrats have 0 incentives to give him what he wants. T
hey just don't care if he shoots his own hostage government.

Therefore Trump better look for a less humiliating way to backpedal out of his current corner.
His best bet would be to use other moneys, if he happens to be legally allowed to do it.

Heraclitusstudent says

Democrats have 0 incentives to give him what he wants. T
hey just don't care if he shoots his own hostage government.

They claim to care.

I personally do not care at all. I think most Trump supporters agree.

Trump has made a good case for the wall being a money saver. I believe him, and the dems have used nothing but grandstanding tactics in the last 2 years. Can almost guarantee you Trump not only wont lose support, but he will gain some from this.

He should now demand immediate e-verify instead of Wall. If he gets it, both sides can claim victory.

d6rB says

He should now demand immediate e-verify instead of Wall. If he gets it, both sides can claim victory.

He should offer it as concession in exchange for the Wall. ;)

Heraclitusstudent says

Folks, Trump is the president and therefore at the end of the day responsible in the eyes of people.

Where were you during the 8 years of Obama, blaming economic issues on Bush, 4 years later?

Hypocrite?

d6rB says

He should now demand immediate e-verify instead of Wall. If he gets it, both sides can claim victory.

The same jokers who are protesting the wall will be even more antagonistic against E-Verify. E-Verify will be called "racist" and "inaccurate" and otherwise not effective. The Dems and some Reps do not want to stop unfettered illegal immigration, as that would curtail votes and low wage labor. Instead they only want methods like "more Border Patrol" and other methods that only look like curtailing illegal immigration, but do little to impede it.

Wall plus E-Verify would be very effective, which is why both will be opposed.

WaltertheoFlanders says

but if it's 80% e-verify and 20% wall, as for effectiveness

Where are you getting these percentages from?
Why can't we have e-verify,a border wall, and border minefield.

zzyzzx says

and border minefield.

um... how about we just dump 20 million baby crocodiles in rio grand, along w those asian carp for food. Bam! sustainable border protection problem solved.

CBOEtrader says

20 million baby crocodiles in rio grand,

Already there:
https://www.abqjournal.com/17491/705am-alligators-found-in-rio-grande.html

More like a month ago.

CBOEtrader says

What is it w the ideologues accusing everyone of dishonesty? Point out the actual dishonesty or stfu, it's just flaming to call everyone a liar w no supporting facts

Impressive reading comprehension there CBOE. OBviosly the sentence you quoted was intended by me to procede where I point out the dishonesty.

But I'm not surprised. You've never showed an ability to comprehend something you choose not to comprehend. Even among xtreme Trump Cuck, and Trump himself, you're the only one that goes so far as to challenge that the Trump lies reported by fact checkers on a daily basis aren't actually lies.

Your argument: "Go ahead and lets discuss one of Trumps lies, if you really believe they are lies ?"

marcus says

OBviosly the sentence you quoted was intended by me to procede where I point out the dishonesty.

But I'm not surprised. You've never showed an ability to comprehend something you choose not to comprehend. Even among xtreme Trump Cuck, and Trump himself, you're the only one that goes so far as to challenge that the Trump lies reported by fact checkers on a daily basis aren't actually lies.

Your argument: "Go ahead and lets discuss one of Trumps lies, if you really believe they are lies ?"

Sounds like you agree w me, considering you STILL havent shown us the lie you are accusing others of.

Yes, please go ahead and point out any lie you think is important and shows dishonesty. Or choose any lie you like.

Many months later, still waiting

marcus says

Patrick says

marcus says

So somehow the fact that congress won't give Trump the first $5.7 of his $30 billion dollar wall, means that democrats are for dissolving the border ?

Yes, actually.

It's very closely analogous to Angela Merkel's deliberate importation of more than a million young men from the mideast and Africa. She, and the Democrats (and most Republican politicians, to be honest) simply want to drive down wages for native citizens, because that's what globalist businesses want. Helps profits to pay workers less, you know.

You will never admit to the dishonesty in this.

@Marcus let's review. You are accusing [X] of dishonesty for [Y].

Please fill in your answer for X and Y, because simply saying something is dishonest is trollish w/o any specifics.

Still waiting...

CBOEtrader says

Many months later, still waiting

I would rather just let the your implication sit, that in a WaPO or NYT list of thousands of Trump lies, that aren't even challenged by normal right wingers, you can't find a single actual significant lie.

To me that speaks volumes.

CBOEtrader says

@Marcus let's review. You are accusing [X] of dishonesty for [Y].

Please fill in your answer for X and Y, because simply saying something is dishonest is trollish w/o any specifics.

Still waiting...

I told you. Read the sentences that followed.

marcus says

How do you square the massive build up in border security and the reduced numbers of incoming illegals, that experts say will be unaffected by the wall ?

It's questioning the intellectual honesty of what Patrick said. Followed by charts soon there after showing how much border security was increased and illegal immigration decreased in the 8 years before Trump.

I trust Patrick understands my point. If you don't, as I said, that doesn't compare to other obvious stuff you deny.

Even TrumpCucks know that the real issue is the hiring of illegal immigrants. Spending $30 billion on a wall ? What for, the symbolism ?

Don't get me wrong, I get it, since Trump runs a tax cut induced $1.2 trillion deficit in what are supposedly the best of growth times, $30 billion for a symbolic wall is just Trump change to you people.

marcus says

marcus says

How do you square the massive build up in border security and the reduced numbers of incoming illegals, that experts say will be unaffected by the wall ?

It's questioning the intellectual honesty of what Patrick said. Followed by charts soon there after showing how much border security was increased and illegal immigration decreased in the 8 years before Trump.

A disagreement is not a lie. Stop misusing the English language.

Also, since you wont concisely communicate you force others to assume. Therefore I assume you disagree w the crises label and do not think a wall is necessary? You then base this on a chart of border arrests per month?

W/o misusing the English language and calling you a liar, I will state the flaws in your logic.

Border arrests are at best a model of actual numbers coming across the border, but fine let's all assume those numbers fluctuate together so there are indeed far fewer illegal border crossings than 15 years ago.

However, are we not already overflowing w children in schools? It is a fact that medicaid, welfare, etc... are being flooded w illegals. Would you agree that schools and other infrastructure do have a breaking point? And to add more illegals into the existing system is quite bad?

Regardless, these costs are perhaps only the 3rd most important reason for a wall.

Drug and human trafficking are #1 and #2.

The wall would help immensely with all 3 problems.

There is also the humanitarian tragedy of these illegals towing innocent children across 110 degree heat so they have a ticket into the US. I agree w Trump that we must be very clear you will never cross the border that way and thus encourage fair, safe immigration.

CBOEtrader says

A disagreement is not a lie

True enough. But my point is that implying that democrats want open borders, when they have been actively promoting massive increases in border security is a lie.

It's also pretty much a lie (or at least extremely questionable) to suggest that a wall will do all that much to decrease incoming illegal immigration from Mexico. OR for that matter that the entire $30 billion or $50 billion wall will ever be built. I know that TRump and his followers don't believe in facts, reasoning or experts, but hey, maybe you could listen to the experts just this once, instead of playing us with these political games like we are all children.

It seems to me that what Trump and his cucks want is to somehow paint democrats as pro open borders and pro illegal immigration. IT simply isn't true. And the fact that democrats don't support a $30 billion dollar wall doesn't prove anything, other than that the obstruction that democrats do is far more pragmatic and sensible than the obstruction republitards did to Obama.

marcus says

and the reduced numbers of incoming illegals, that experts say will be unaffected by the wall ?

That's awesome.

How do you prove the reduced numbers of illegals coming over the border if you don't see them or catch them?

Is that like proving a negative?

Or do they call the border patrol AFTER they get in and go "na, na, na, you didn't catch me"?

marcus says

And the fact that democrats don't support a $30 billion dollar wall doesn't prove anything, other than that the obstruction they do is far more pragmatic and sensible than the obstruction republitards did to Obama.

So tell us, what is the Democrats EXACT border security plan, if a wall/barrier doesn't work (you know the same wall/barrier Pelosi voted FOR in 2013)?

marcus says

in a WaPO or NYT list of thousands of Trump lies,

Is there ONE Trump lie you consider important enough to defend?
Just ONE?

marcus says

But my point is that implying that democrats want open borders, when they have been actively promoting massive increases in border security is a lie.

Ok. Now we're talking.

I see your point. You are probably correct about MOST democrats wanting border security. Some are even for the wall. I do think the anti-wall thing is mostly propaganda considering Bill Clinton and even early Obama wanted walls. That's a besides the current discussion though.

What @Patrick is trying to say here (my Gillete mainsplaining moment): First, there are many, many progressives extremists who are saying walls are immoral. Almost all of EU leadership is force feeding millions of economic migrants into Europe. In Europe being a few progressive tyranniyrranical years ahead of us, some countries have CRIMINALIZED criticism of migrant policy as racism.

Here in the US the propagandists seem to be pushing for the same type of limitations. Our constitution makes criminalization far more difficult (thank GOD) but our extreme leftist regressive culture is trying to find ways around it. They label border security itself as racism. They label anyone who wants the wall as a Nazi. Then they push to deplarform in every way.

So yeah, @patrick could have added some exclusions to his statement, but hes not wrong in his observations.

CBOEtrader says

Ok. Now we're talking.

Why could you not simply interpret that from the post, and the senntences that followed your quote. IT was very clear.

CBOEtrader says

do think the anti-wall thing is mostly propaganda considering Bill Clinton and even early Obama wanted walls.

Wrong, the propaganda is that if you're not for a $30 billion or $50 billion dollar wall you're not for walls. OR worse you're not for border security.

THe truth is that we have been building extensive walls for decades, and congress recently allocated $1.2 billion for repairs and extensions of existing walls.
(I fully expect you and Patrick and all the others spouting the propaganda to ignore this fact as much as possible)

This is politics. The reason Ann Coulter is saying Trump is toast without the wall, is that he promised it, and becasue let's face it, a key part of Trumps base are racists that might not vote for Trump in 2020 if he can't even deliver the wall, or at least fight really hard for it. THe wall is symbolic.

CBOEtrader says

First, there are many, many progressives extremists who are saying walls are immoral

That's politics too. But on the left. They're trolling you guys with that, but also catering to a part of the left wing base that is either not so okay with it, or basically opposed to everything TRump, like the republicans were with Obama. It's what the partisans do these days, although nobody does it like the republicans.