patrick.net

Rin says

This year, I came close to clearing $240K in dividend income alone

I think with that kind of income, a lot of people would be fucking hoes.

Strategist says

MrMagic says

Strategist says

Who cares about the energy density. If I can drive an electric car for less than 3 cents a mile, why would I even consider anything else?

Maybe because you're paying $30K EXTRA for the car.

You can get a brand new Nissan Leaf for:
MSRP $31,000.
Dealer discount $5,000
Federal tax credit $7,500
Ca rebate check $2,500
Free fuel for 2 years from Nissan.
Annual Utility credit. Last one was $500.
-------
Now do the math. There has been no exaggeration on these figures.
If you have low income, you get a further $2,000 from California.
Free level 2 chargers/installation for low income too.
Some cities/counties have further rebates.

Folks, an electric car IS the lowest priced car in the country. Tesla is a high end luxury car. Don't compare the...

Am I reading that correctly? A low income person can get a Nissan leaf for $14,000 after rebates + $500/yr. This translates as no gas costs ever? Fly in ointment...poor people live in apartments. How do they charge their car at an apartment complex?

I picked up a Chevy Bolt yesterday. I got the Premier trim with a 3 year lease with nothing down for $484/month. The leasing company gets the $7,500 federal rebate and works it into the monthly lease. I still qualify for the $2,500 California state rebate and get the carpool lane sticker. I just changed my SDG&E plan for the EV plan that charges me only $.09/kWh between 12:00 and 6:00AM. By my math, I am saving just over $100/month if I leased a comparable sedan with a V6 or turbo engine factoring in my monthly fuel charges.

So far it is totally beating my expectations. I knew it was quick and fast on the few test drives I did this past month. But once I got it on some familiar roads in my neighborhood with all of the hills.....it's been a total blast. I love rocketing up the hills and then using the regenerative braking (including the steering wheel regen brake paddle) coming down the hills and watching my mile range increase. I've only touched the brake pedal a few times. The one pedal driving is super addicting.

How do they charge their car at an apartment complex?

If you are in a northern state like Minnesota, the apartment complex parking lots already have a standard electric socket at each parking spot meant for block heaters.

HeadSet says

How do they charge their car at an apartment complex?

If you are in a northern state like Minnesota, the apartment complex parking lots already have a standard electric socket at each parking spot meant for block heaters.

110v or 220v? The former are practically useless for EV charging (speaking from experience).

DASKAA says

HeadSet says

How do they charge their car at an apartment complex?

If you are in a northern state like Minnesota, the apartment complex parking lots already have a standard electric socket at each parking spot meant for block heaters.

110v or 220v? The former are practically useless for EV charging (speaking from experience).

Yeah - even my 220v socket in my garage is only rated at 30 amps, so I can't get the full "Level 2" charging that charges the entire Bolt battery in 9 hours since it requires 32 amps. The best I can do is 12 hours which is perfectly fine for my daily commute.

Honestly, can't imagine trying to live with an EV car if I didn't have the ability to charge at home. Too much of a hassle trying to find chargers IMO.

socal2 says

Honestly, can't imagine trying to live with an EV car if I didn't have the ability to charge at home. Too much of a hassle trying to find chargers IMO.

Oh, come on... Do I have to engineer all the solutions around here?

That isn't going to be able to get you out of the driveway.

socal2 says

I picked up a Chevy Bolt yesterday.

Awesome! However I am curious as to why not a Volt.

Booger says

That isn't going to be able to get you out of the driveway.

No kidding.

I've been plugged into my 110v socket with the standard cable that comes for the car for the last 1 hour and only added about 5 miles of range. It would take 45 hours to charge the whole car at that rate. The charger that comes with the Bolt (and Volt) is also rated for 220V for the European market, so all you have to do is plug in a 220v adapter plug and that doubles the charge rate so I could get about 100 miles charged overnight which is all I need to keep the car topped off every 2 days with my daily 50 mile commute.

I will ultimately buy a Level 2 charger, but think I will be able to get buy for a while with the stock charger and the 220v conversion cable.

Booger says

That isn't going to be able to get you out of the driveway.

OK.... Fine... just add a few more....



There, all solved!!

Booger says

Awesome! However I am curious as to why not a Volt.

The Bolt has more horsepower and seemed peppier driving around compared to the Volt (200hp and 266lbs of torque). The Bolt can do 0-60 in 6.5 seconds and the Volt is 7.5. Also the Bolt feels more grounded and sticks to the road with the heavy battery in the floor. It's like driving an electric go cart - really fun with the one pedal driving.

MrMagic says

Booger says

That isn't going to be able to get you out of the driveway.

OK.... Fine... just add a few more....



There, all solved!!

Your just getting out of the driveway here. Possibly down the street, but just a little, if it's flat or downhill.

socal2 says

Booger says

Awesome! However I am curious as to why not a Volt.

The Bolt has more horsepower and seemed peppier driving around compared to the Volt (200hp and 266lbs of torque). The Bolt can do 0-60 in 6.5 seconds and the Volt is 7.5. Also the Bolt feels more grounded and sticks to the road with the heavy battery in the floor. It's like driving an electric go cart - really fun with the one pedal driving.

Good answer, but I was expecting something more along the lines of it's a second car type of thing.

Booger says

Good answer, but I was expecting something more along the lines of it's a second car type of thing.

It is a second car. It's my main car for the work commute and my wife drives a Honda Odyssey which we use for longer trips.

socal2 says

Booger says

Awesome! However I am curious as to why not a Volt.

The Bolt has more horsepower and seemed peppier driving around compared to the Volt (200hp and 266lbs of torque). The Bolt can do 0-60 in 6.5 seconds and the Volt is 7.5. Also the Bolt feels more grounded and sticks to the road with the heavy battery in the floor. It's like driving an electric go cart - really fun with the one pedal driving.

Yup, it’s addictive. Imagine you can do 0-60 in 4 sec, or even 2.5 sec. How addictive would it be? Going up the hills, zoom. Even if you come to a complete stop in a middle of the hill, step on the pedal and the car zooms again. Instant torque baby.

I get 30 mph charging at home with the level 2 50-amp rated. Costed me $25.83 for parts and a cup of Peets coffee to have it installed by my little brother who is a GC. PG&E rates vary between summer and winter months, but averaging $0.129/kWh. It’s addictive once you own one. My daughter wants to take the Tesla everywhere. Wife has an MDX, and it’s perfect for long trips. The MDX hauls ass up the hills too.

Congrats and have fun.

@patrick,

Tesla is the 2nd biggest holding for Larry Ellison, the CEO of Oracle. This is what Larry had to say about Elon Musk "You know, he's landing rockets on robot drone rafts in the ocean, and you're saying he doesn't know what he's doing. Well, who else is landing rockets? You ever land a rocket on a robot drone? Who are you?"

If I have to take financial advice from someone, I’d rather take it from a billionaire rather than some faceless person/people on the internet.

Cheers!

E-man says

Don't get caught up in the hype - nothing is more hyped/shorted then Tesla. Sure it could still rocket to the moon before burning out ... but it could just burn out. Read up on the short cases - loss of executives, debt level, European luxury brands coming out with their own electrics and possibly an unhinged leader (who else could get away with calling a national hero a Pedo!?)

Executives leaving, competition, and a CEO that calls someone a Pedo, is irrelevant to a new and spectacular technology that Tesla delivers. The emerging competition only points to the success Tesla has with electric cars. It's not the brand that matters, but the technology it delivers. Making the electric car technology available to all car companies for free is what prevents the technology from being acquired and shelved by the oil companies that literally have $trillions to lose.
Fuck the oil companies. What have they ever done for the health of humans and the planet?

WineHorror1 says

Am I reading that correctly? A low income person can get a Nissan leaf for $14,000 after rebates + $500/yr. This translates as no gas costs ever? Fly in ointment...poor people live in apartments. How do they charge their car at an apartment complex?

They don't have to charge at their apartment. As simple as that.

socal2 says

I've been plugged into my 110v socket with the standard cable that comes for the car for the last 1 hour and only added about 5 miles of range. It would take 45 hours to charge the whole car at that rate. The charger that comes with the Bolt (and Volt) is also rated for 220V for the European market, so all you have to do is plug in a 220v adapter plug and that doubles the charge rate so I could get about 100 miles charged overnight which is all I need to keep the car topped off every 2 days with my daily 50 mile commute.

I will ultimately buy a Level 2 charger, but think I will be able to get buy for a while with the stock charger and the 220v conversion cable.

Something is off here. A level 2 charger will charge between 20 and 20 miles per hour for an all electric car.

MrMagic says

There, all solved!!

Ha ha ha. Funny.
Thanks for the solution, but we have something better..... A plug.

E-man says

If I have to take financial advice from someone, I’d rather take it from a billionaire rather than some faceless person/people on the internet.

The bartender is the best source for investment advise, ask any drunk.

Strategist says

E-man says

Don't get caught up in the hype - nothing is more hyped/shorted then Tesla. Sure it could still rocket to the moon before burning out ... but it could just burn out. Read up on the short cases - loss of executives, debt level, European luxury brands coming out with their own electrics and possibly an unhinged leader (who else could get away with calling a national hero a Pedo!?)

Executives leaving, competition, and a CEO that calls someone a Pedo, is irrelevant to a new and spectacular technology that Tesla delivers. The emerging competition only points to the success Tesla has with electric cars. It's not the brand that matters, but the technology it delivers. Making the electric car technology available to all car companies for free is what prevents the technology from being acquired and shelved by the oil companies that literally have $trillions to lose.
Fuck the oil companies....

Dude, I didn’t say any of that stuff. You quoted the wrong guy. ;-)

Btw, I get 30 mph for a level 2 charger at home. Off-peak is 11pm - 7am so that’s equivalent to 240 miles per night. Once you charge higher than 92%ish, the regen doesn’t work well on the Tesla. I love the regen so I only charge to 80-90%.

E-man says

Dude, I didn’t say any of that stuff. You quoted the wrong guy. ;-)

I was quoting goat. Dunno what happened.

E-man says

also get to give family and friends, who are into saving the planet and driving priuses, a hard time for driving an ICE car.

Hahaha

E-man says

This is what Larry had to say about Elon Musk "You know, he's landing rockets on robot drone rafts in the ocean, and you're saying he doesn't know what he's doing. Well, who else is landing rockets? You ever land a rocket on a robot drone? Who are you?"

Lol, good quote.

just_dregalicious says

E-man says

also get to give family and friends, who are into saving the planet and driving priuses, a hard time for driving an ICE car.

Hahaha

Interesting world we now live in, where the Prius driver is the carbon spewing, planet killing pig.

Strategist says

Something is off here. A level 2 charger will charge between 20 and 20 miles per hour for an all electric car.

This is the charging table for the Bolt:

- DCFC (50kW): 90mi/30m or 160mi/h
- DCFC (25kW): 45mi/30m or 90mi/h
- DCFC (12.5kW): 22.5mi/30m 45mi/h
- 220V@32A (7.04kW): 25mi/h or 8h31m-------(This is the advertised 9 hour full charge with a Level 2 charger at 32 amps)
- 220V@24A (5.06kW): 18mi/h or 12h------------(If I buy a Level 2 charger, this is the best I can do because I only have a 30 amp circuit and will charge at 24 amps)
- 220V@16A (3.52kW): 12.5mi/h or 17h
- 220V@12A (2.88kW): 11.42mi/h or 20h50m-----------(I will get this charge when I get my 220 to 120 adapter cord and plug into the stock charger that comes with the car)
- 120V@12A (1.44kW): 5.7mi/h or 41h40m ------------(This plug comes with the car and is what I am currently using, enough to keep me topped off)
- 120V@8A (0.960kW): 3.8mi/h or 62h30m

E-man says

I love the regen so I only charge to 80-90%.

I've only driven about 100 miles in the Bolt and i can't get enough of the regen. Such a better way to drive. Especially with hills (which I have plenty of). The Bolt will come to a complete stop even coming down a steep hill. I picked up 4 additional miles driving 5 miles out of my neighborhood down to the freeway!

I went surfing this morning and took my wife's minivan and it felt so weird (and wrong) to coast and have to hit the brakes at traffic lights. I can't believe how quick I am getting used to one pedal driving.

socal2 says

E-man says

I love the regen so I only charge to 80-90%.

I've only driven about 100 miles in the Bolt and i can't get enough of the regen. Such a better way to drive. Especially with hills (which I have plenty of). The Bolt will come to a complete stop even coming down a steep hill. I picked up 4 additional miles driving 5 miles out of my neighborhood down to the freeway!

I went surfing this morning and took my wife's minivan and it felt so weird (and wrong) to coast and have to hit the brakes at traffic lights. I can't believe how quick I am getting used to one pedal driving.

What I have learned is that the gas car drivers don’t appreciate the regen feature. They’re not familiar with it. Whenever I give it to one of the friends or family members or neighbors to test drive it, I have to disable the regen feature as they’re not familiar with it, and they feel it’s jerking the car when they let the acceleration pedal go.

Man, once you drive a Tesla, all other cars feel so outdated. Even my wife’s 2017 MDX feels outdated to me when I’m driving it. When I’m driving our spare car, the 2007 MBZ E350, it feels so ancient. We’re getting rid of it in Jan. No need for a spare car. We get a loaner every time we take the car in for a service.

Enjoy. These EVs will only get better from here. All thanks to Elon for doing what the dinasour car companies said was not possible. Honda and Toyota should do well once they make the inroad with EVs. With their reputation, the EVs will sell themselves.

Porsche claims that they have a year worth of pre-orders and Tesla owners are the top Taycan reservation holders.

Previously, Porsche was reportedly planning to produce about 20,000 Taycan vehicles per year.

The company recently said that it might increase planned production of the Taycan all-electric vehicle as demand soared.

Zellmer said that more than half of the reservation holders are new to Porsche and the top brand they are coming from is Tesla:

“More than half of the people that are signing up for the Taycan have not owned or do not own a Porsche. Typically, if we look at our source of business, people coming from other brands, it’s Audi, BMW, or Mercedes. The no. 1 brand now is Tesla. That’s pretty interesting, to see that people that were curious about the Tesla for very good reasons obviously don’t stop being curious.”
Recently, Zellmer said that what Tesla did is ‘truly astonishing’.

The German premium automaker has had a weird relationship with Tesla as it moves its own first all-electric vehicle program forward.

Earlier this year, Porsche said that ‘Tesla is not a benchmark for them’ in the development of the Taycan, but the company was spotted benchmarking Taycan test mules with a Tesla Model S P85D.

Porsche CEO Oliver Blume also admitted that Tesla is stealing away some customers and they are clearly trying to position the Taycan against the Model S.

You can trash talk about Tesla all you want. “The no. 1 brand now is Tesla.”

socal2 says

- 220V@32A (7.04kW): 25mi/h or 8h31m-------(This is the advertised 9 hour full charge with a Level 2 charger at 32 amps)

This is the one I use. ChargePoint. It has worked perfectly in the last 3.5 years that I have had it.
32 Amps. I get just about 25 miles per hour.

HeadSet says

Interesting world we now live in, where the Prius driver is the carbon spewing, planet killing pig.

My son drives our 2011 Prius. I call it a gas guzzler now.

Bentley takes a page out of Porsche’s playbook as it plans to lure over Tesla buyers.

Whether you love Tesla or can’t stand the company — perhaps due to the antics of CEO Elon Musk — there’s no getting around the fact that the company may very well go down as one of the more influential car manufacturers in history.

In light of that, another luxury automaker influenced by Tesla’s ongoing success is Bentley. During a recent interview with Automotive News Europe, Bentley CEO Adrian Hallmark relayed that he’d like to broaden Bentley’s reach to include hyper-wealthy “upper liberals” who tend to be drawn to EVs from the likes of Tesla. As a result, Hallmark said that Bentley is planning to dive head-first into the EV realm.

E-man says

Whether you love Tesla or can’t stand the company — perhaps due to the antics of CEO Elon Musk — there’s no getting around the fact that the company may very well go down as one of the more influential car manufacturers in history.

Not liking Tesla just because the CEO said something is silly. It's the same fucking car.....Hello?
The negative articles on Tesla and Musk that have recently swamped the media are sheer nonsense, most likely funded by those who would be hurt by the end of fossil fuels. Even the SEC probe seems to have an agenda in my opinion. No matter how much Big Oil tries to suffocate electric cars, they cannot and will not succeed. They may have US corrupt politicians in their pockets, but they do not have all the countries determined to end fossil fuels in their pockets.
Lets face it.....New technology that is more efficient, economical, and does more good will always end up replacing old technology that is not needed anymore. Those who are not open to welcoming new technologies are welcome to live like cave men on an island. Who knows, they may even discover fire.

Patrick says

One reason I'm interested in Tesla is because I'm a firm believer that solar will replace oil soon, being limited only by battery technology. And Tesla makes more money from batteries than from cars.

Any other companies positioned to efficiently store solar power?

You guys crack me up, all telling what a great value a Tesla car is, or is not, how electric cars cost 3 cents per mile, etc.

Patrick was interested in opinions not about the Tesla sedan but the stock. On the premise that solar will replace oil, and growth in Tesla batteries to store solar power.

I don't think solar will REPLACE oil. Augment, displace, etc. Not REPLACE. Certainly there will be growth in solar, and in batteries. I worked with a guy who was shopping for a kerosene generator to send to his folks in Puerto Rico after the hurricane. There will be lots of demand for that sort of stuff for decades even as solar gets built out.

A purchase of TSLA stock is a bet on Elon Musk, one of the geniuses in our lifetime. Do you wish you own stocks in a company that is being run by Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos. The question is what is your buy-and-hold time horizon? How much are you betting on it? Is the bet significant enough to change the course of your life if it turns out to be right or wrong? If not, call it gambling money and make a bet.

Elon has created a product that people love and are raving about. Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction. Is that enough for you to invest in the company.

I made an equivalent bet 9 years ago, and it has changed the course of my life forever. I bet that bet on real estate. The initial goal was to buy 10 rentals valuing around $1.5-$2M using a method called BRRRRR. Buy an asset for below market value, rehab, rent out, rinse and repeat. 4 years into it, I said why settle at $2M? Why not make it $5M? When I hit that mile stone, I said why $5M and not $10M? Then I hit that mile stone too. Then I talked my wife into rewarding myself with the car I’d had my eyes on.

Once you control $10M worth of real estate in the Bay Area, your net worth is increasing at a rate of $700k+/year based on historical data of 6% annual appreciation in the last 50 years and over $100k in principal pay down and over $100k in net cash flow after all expenses. Even at an average 3% annual rate of appreciation. You’re not doing too shabby.

I shared with you the story about tennis friend who bet his whole life savings and 401k on one stock, TSLA, in its infancy. He watched the stock market kept going up and up and up while TSLA stock did nothing for almost 3 years. Do you have the conviction to do the same?

Life is too short to make small bets - CEO of Soft Bank. ???

B.A.C.A.H. says

I don't think solar will REPLACE oil. Augment, displace, etc. Not REPLACE.

Funny. If you were born 120 years earlier, you would be saying cars will never REPLACE horses as a main form of transportation.
If a new technology is cheaper and more efficient, it will always replace older technology. It's called progress.

E-man says

Elon has created a product that people love and are raving about. Tesla has the highest customer satisfaction. Is that enough for you to invest in the company.

Tesla isn't a car. It's a spaceship from the future.

E-man says

A purchase of TSLA stock is a bet on Elon Musk, one of the geniuses in our lifetime.

Interesting, they said the same thing about John DeLorean.

E-man says

Elon has created a product that people love and are raving about.

Really, how many people out of 320 million would that be?