patrick.net

I don't know the full backstory of this event (before the video starts), but what happens at time 0:20 is bothersome: Someone on the police side fires shots ("shots fired", per the reporter on the scene) at the suspect, who is sitting with both hands, seemingly empty-handed, hanging out the car window to display his compliance with the police. AFTER the shots are fired by the police, the suspect retreats into the vehicle (who wouldn't instinctively do that?), then proceeds to pick up a gun and exit the vehicle to shoot back. Could be a case of "they are going to shoot me anyway, so I might as well fight back".

Again, many details are missing from this story, but to overlook the above observations would be a mistake.

Capernik is probably kneeling even further by now. His innocent "brother" been slain by evil whites.

(that was sarcasm in case it wasn't obvious to anyone)

Here is another video angle, but very unfortunately the video starts 3 seconds too late and does NOT capture the moment before the suspect retreats into the vehicle. Hence no evidence of the initial shots being fired while the suspect still had his (empty, AFAICT) hands out the window in compliance.
www.youtube.com/embed/dGjGtXe1Zxk

Okay, here is the evidence that the police shot at the man first as he was holding two empty hands still out the window in compliance with the orders given over the megaphone. The initial shot was fired at about time 4:57. The suspect instinctively seeks shelter in the vehicle, then for whatever reason, choses to arm himself and shoot back.

Indeed, this could very well be a case of "they are going to shoot me anyway, so I might as well fight back".
www.youtube.com/embed/VB7Rh-5Nlwk

justme says

Indeed, this could very well be a case of "they are going to shoot me anyway, so I might as well fight back".

Trying to rationalize stupid choices much?

justme says

Okay, here is the evidence that the police shot at the man first as he was holding two empty hands still out the window in compliance with the orders given over the megaphone. The initial shot was fired at about time 4:57. The suspect instinctively seeks shelter in the vehicle, then for whatever reason, choses to arm himself and shoot back.

Indeed, this could very well be a case of "they are going to shoot me anyway, so I might as well fight back".

Did not watch the video cause it really doesn't matter to me. Could police handle most situations better, absolutely. Why are they even in this situation from the get go though? People need to start addressing the problem with most of the pie and not just a tiny slice of it. What are the solutions to reduce crime and the motivation for committing it? If no one is really planning to address that, you're going to keep seeing police put in shitty situations that should have never happened in the first place. We have got to stop blaming the reaction to the problem and deal with the problem itself.

SpecialSnowflake says

Trying to rationalize stupid choices much?

Well, Strawman/SpecialSnowFlake, I do know that you have a severe dislike for facts. The dislike for facts is rampant among right-wingers, so you are not alone.

Even this supposedly "good" shooting (as the police like to call these events) turned out to be a case of police shooting at a man that had no weapon in his hands, thereby causing the rest of this tragic event to unfold.

me123 says

So, wouldn't you wait until ALL the facts came out to make a judgement all instead of a quick video clip?

Nice double standard, CIC/me123. You and the right-wingers get to shoot from the hip (sometimes liiterally) , but when I analyze the event and point out actual evidence that contradicts your pre-fabricated narrative, you accuse of not waiting for all the evidence. Could you be more disingenious? That was joke. I'm sure you can.

Right wing logic:

In order to uphold the law and protect the public, police must be allowed to break the law and harm the public.

I just made that connection after watching the Vietnam War series on PBS (see other thread). There, a famous slogan by an army official, was:

"In order to save the village (implied: from the communists), we had to destroy it"

Let's leave my wings alone for now.

justme says

a case of police shooting at a man that had no weapon in his hands

justme says

The suspect instinctively seeks shelter in the vehicle, then for whatever reason, choses to arm himself and shoot back.

Hmm, so which one is the fact: the one you stated now, or the one you stated before? It can't be both, can it?

Since Strawman/SpecialSnowflake and CIC/me123 are unable or unwilling to represent honestly what I claim, I will spell out again what my claims are, for the benefit of other readers. For simplicity I will refer to video1/2/3 in the order they were posted in this thread.

1. at time video3/4:48, the suspect is complying and has two empty hands placed out the side window of the vehicle and down the side of the door. Video3 veers from the hands at his point, but in video1/0:14 to 0:18 you can see that the suspect continues to hold his empty hands still and outside the vehicle, just as ordered.

2. at time video3/4:58 and video1/0:18, the police shoot at him anyway, I hear one or maybe two shots <-----THIS IS A KEY EVENT, POLICE IS SHOOTING AT AN UNARMED MAN

3. at time video1/4:59 the suspect quickly retreats from his compliant position, in what a reasonable person would consider to be an instinctive reaction to the shot(s) fired.

4. the suspect then, for unknown reasons, decides to arm himself and exit the vehicle with a gun in his hand (AFAICT).

5. at time video3/5:09, suspect exits vehicle, with what looks like a weapon in his hand, and is gunned down by police

Will any reasonable person disagree with the above? I hope not. Now, in view of the above:

I speculate that item 4. may be a case of "they are shooting at me anyway, so I might as well fight back". I contend this is every bit as valid a speculation as the all-too-common assertion that "the suspect decided to commit suicide by cop", which I think very often is the police version of "the victim was asking for it". Furthermore, I contend that there is a good chance that if one or two careless or trigger-happy police officers had not first shot at an unarmed and now compliant suspect, the suspect would not have decided to shoot back.

justme says

Indeed, this could very well be a case of "they are going to shoot me anyway, so I might as well fight back".

Could also be a case that the guy is a convicted felon who did time in prison for a firearm charge, was wanted on another homicide, and decided to ignore the requests by the cops and came out of the vehicle shooting.

Seriously dude, go do some research, the guys name is Demilo Hodge.

Once again, we see past offenders ignoring the cops and get killed because of it.

Dan thinks that cops are target practice for black gangs.

justme says

Since Strawman/SpecialSnowflake and CIC/me123 are unable or unwilling to represent honestly what I claim

Bullshit: I included direct quotes with links to actual posts by just you. So you represent just yourselves. And if you're doing a poor job at it - it's solely just your fault.

justme says

1. at time video3/4:48, the suspect is complying and has two empty hands placed out the side window of the vehicle and down the side of the door. Video3 veers from the hands at his point, but in video1/0:14 to 0:18 you can see that the suspect continues to hold his empty hands still and outside the vehicle, just as ordered.

2. at time video3/4:58 and video1/0:18, the police shoot at him anyway, I hear one or maybe two shots <-----THIS IS A KEY EVENT, POLICE IS SHOOTING AT AN UNARMED MAN

3. at time video1/4:59 the suspect quickly retreats from his compliant position, in what a reasonable person would consider to be an instinctive reaction to the shot(s) fired.

4. the suspect then, for unknown reasons, decides to arm himself and exit the vehicle with a gun in his hand (AFAICT).

And this is, my friends, the idiotic choice you're trying to defend. Which is pretty hard, because it's indefensible. I feel for you, but it's time you abandon this awkward position. The guy was and idiot and died an idiotic death.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

#BlackLivesMatter
#BendTheKnee

I hope none of these cops are put on paid leave pending a review of their handling of the situation.

Let's show Unity by insulting the Flag and Anthem at Football Games to stop Police Brutally being paid their salary when not charged with a crime.

That proves America is a racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, neocolonialist, etc. etc. dehumanizing country, according to Kaepernick.

Your point would be valid if this were representative of the victims that the take a knee protests are bringing to the public's attention. He's not. The real victims are law-abiding, unarmed, not violent Americans like the seven-year-old girl whose brains were blown out by a cop who then framed her grandmother for it.
www.youtube.com/embed/IW2-UVskHUA

The lying scumbag cop committed perjury to cover his crime.

So tell me, is take a knee invalid? Does this woman's life or her granddaughter's life not matter at all? Are those two equivalent to the murderer in the video in the original post?

Watch that video and tell me that girl deserved to die and the grandmother is scum too.

Just me - problem with this (and frankly all of Patnet) is rendering a judgment w/o all the facts. Yes I heard the same 1-2 shooting sounds you did but do we know they were shooting AT him? Could it have been a bean bag gun? Dragons breath round? Moreover what information was being fed to the cops in the pursuit? Were they perhaps told from bystanders "this guy has a gun"? Perhaps they were told the guy is xyz and is deemed armed and dangerous"?

I don't know any answers yet - and I'm sure tomorrow as more info comes out and all my questions are proven w/o merit you and all of Patnetia will crow "see I told you so! Ha ha ha - you were wrong" and if so - so be it.

Point is - none of us have answers to all those questions yet - and without that it's really premature to render judgment

Police just trying to take another American's 2nd amendment Rights.

All you gun lovers sit for hours in a stand still because you think everyone has a right to a gun.You assholes
forgot that there are consequences to some people owning or having access to a gun. How's it feel being a victim of your pretzel logic.

The gun makers manufacture the guns knowing the damage their profit motive can cause.
They will be sending you a check for the inconvenience & disruption their product caused you.

justme says

4. the suspect then, for unknown reasons, decides to arm himself and exit the vehicle with a gun in his hand (AFAICT).

Unknown reason? LOL. He armed himself to kill cops. I'm glad he's dead.

anonymous says

Were they perhaps told from bystanders "this guy has a gun"? Perhaps they were told the guy is xyz and is deemed armed and dangerous"?

The cops went to pick him up originally as he was suspect for a homicide plus a previously convicted felon that did prison time, so the cops were already on guard. He decide to run, and the chase took place. Then, for many minutes after he stopped, he refused to follow the instructions of the cop. Go listen to the third video above.

Lastly, he exited his truck and fired one or two shots towards the cops. The rest is history.

me123 says

The cops went to pick him up originally as he was suspect for a homicide plus a previously convicted felon that did prison time, so the cops were already on guard. He decide to run, and the chase took place. Then, for many minutes after he stopped, he refused to follow the instructions of the cop. Go listen to the third video above.

Lastly, he exited his truck and fired one or two shots towards the cops. The rest is history.

Why anyone would feel sorry for this animal shocks me. I'm glad he's dead and we don't have to feed him anymore. Even dog food would be a waste on him.

The trial will not be lengthy...

How anyone could even begin to defend this criminal given the circumstances along with the video evidence is truly disturbing.

The left and right has a spectrum. It seems to me like the extreme most 5% or so left and the extreme 5% or so right have completely abondoned logic and common sense.

Point is - none of us have answers to all those questions yet - and without that it's really premature to render judgment

------------

Fair enough. Are you an American? See, here we have this thing called due process, and a court system. The Peace Officers aren't supposed to be The Executioner. We should all want them to be intelligent and well trained in de-escalating situations.

It's incompatible with the American Way to empower The State to take the lives of it's citizens on a whim.

What exactly is a person supposed to do when they find themselves in a situation where they are complying with The State (LEO) and dangling their empty hands out of the window (doing what they are told), and come to find it's a lie and they are taking fire?

The attitude of The People, to not only condone, but seemingly celebrate The State destroying the rights of a citizen, and ultimately taking a life, is far more dangerous than any of the other bullshit fears you've been manipulated to feel.

That LEO is so violently aggressive can only breed more instances like this. Why the fuck are police constantly excusing their own misdeeds by saying that they acted out of fear? They're trained, armed, and 1,000,000 deep in this country. They are above reproach and never have to answer for their actions. What the hell are they afraid of? The person on the other side of any LEO interaction has every legitimate reason to be reacting in fear. It's fucking dangerous as hell

FortWayne says

Dan thinks that cops are target practice for black gangs.

FortWayne thinks infants are sex dolls.

me123 says

Dude, you just had her at 9 years old in the other thread

Oh no, I didn't remember her age. That completely invalidates my argument and justifies her murder and the framing of the grandmother. You win. All seven-year-old children should have their brains blow out. You're a fucking monster.

me123 says

errc says

It's fucking dangerous as hell

Yes it is when you're a convicted felon and don't listen to the cops.

The moral of the story, don't break the law and listen to the cops and you won't end up dead like that guy. Can you do that?

He was listening to the cops. They were lying to him as they attempted to murder him

errc says

What exactly is a person supposed to do when they find themselves in a situation where they are complying with The State (LEO) and dangling their empty hands out of the window (doing what they are told), and come to find it's a lie and they are taking fire?

He should have continued to dangle his empty hands out of the window. Those were most likely warning shots. The last thing you want to do is come out of the car firing a gun. What do you expect the cops todo at that point?

Don't confuse me with yourself please.

Dan8267 says

FortWayne says

Dan thinks that cops are target practice for black gangs.

FortWayne thinks infants are sex dolls.

Negro riots next, with liberal politicians denouncing law order society and bending knee in apologies.

While normal blacks and whites are appalled by stupidity of it all

Errc - while I don't disagree there is a balancing act at play here. If this guy was barricaded in some remote area w no harm to citizens - the cops should take every precaution to keep him safe even if it takes days or weeks to disarm him.

Here you have literally thousands of innocent bystanders who are in harms way. Should we have established a perimeter closed the highways - spent hours transporting civilians out of the area at enormous cost of time and money? Should he be allowed to disrupt society for tens of thousands as the standoff continues for days on end? Moreover- what if this guy had a death wish or had a car packed with explosives? What if he saw that we were establishing that safe zone and his chance for spectacle so he started shooting. If we knew this was the likely end result - why prolong the agony?

In sum - it's very difficult to admit this but if you are trying to balance the wants/needs/rights of a the individual vs society you come to the conclusion that YES SOMETIMES KILLING THE PERSON IS THE RIGHT ANSWER. Iam not necessarily saying that was the right answer here but I acknowledge this as a possible "least worse " outcome. It sucks but it is what it is.

FortWayne says

Negro riots next, with liberal politicians denouncing law order society and bending knee in apologies.

FortWayne says

Don't confuse me with yourself please.

No one would confuse a bigoted moron like you with anyone who has a brain.

Dan don't assume you have a brain, at least you don't seem to use it today. Real sad.

FortWayne says

Dan don't assume you have a brain, at least you don't seem to use it today. Real sad.

Translation: FortWayne cannot construct a rational argument to justify his ridiculous views.

Dan8267 says

Translation: FortWayne cannot construct a rational argument to justify his ridiculous views

Projecting again?

Shut up, piggy.