patrick.net

turtledove says

resistance says

there's a feeling I'm being watched, judged, and talked about.

Unless you are spectacularly good looking or potentially the new head of their department, I doubt it.

Please note that well, resistance: Only women are allowed to imagine and pretend out loud that men find them irresistible (!) even when said women are far from spectacularly good looking.

Don't judge me
Don't rape me
I owe you nothing
Women are individuals
No more violence against women...

You're right. These are foolish ideas. I can see why you find it so offensive.

As for looking at an attractive guy, give me a break. How many women have you drooled over in your lifetime (or men, if that's your thing)? How many women have caused you to go temporarily brain dead? We're not all that different. We make stupid choices over hotties just like you do. It's really not a mystery. We've all lost our trains-of-thought after a hit from cupid's arrow. I like to think I'm above all that at this point in my life... and for the most part, I would say that's the case. Then just yesterday, my gardener was putting down new sod in my backyard. His 27-year-old son was helping him out. He is so unbelievably cute! OMgoodness! Makes me want to go out there and mess up my new lawn.

justme says

Only women are allowed to imagine and pretend out loud that men find them irresistible

Pretend away!... No one is stopping you. No one cares. He can pretend all those women are really drooling over him... In my opinion if he isn't really good looking or about to be hired for a position that could impact their lives then it's probably in his head. I'm not judging him. I'm stating what I believe to be the most likely reality. What's more likely:

Everyone wants him?

or

He's imagining a "hunt" when in reality, at best, it's more like spectators at a zoo who naturally look up when the tiger comes into view through the window?

I have known a lot of macho men who thump their chest and talk about how dominant they are. When their wives walk in, they turn into quivering, whimpering honey-do jellies.

It's pretty strange to see the posturing vs. the reality.

turtledove says

justme says

Only women are allowed to imagine and pretend out loud that men find them irresistible

Pretend away!... No one is stopping you. No one cares.

Maybe you don't care, but I can assure you that society as a whole does to a large extent. When is the last time you saw a bunch of guys on facebook making fake compliments to each other about how Hott! they are, like women do to each other all the time? What might be the reason it does not happen?

I can assure you, if guys started doing that, women would care. A lot.

turtledove says

resistance says

there's a feeling I'm being watched, judged, and talked about.

Unless you are spectacularly good looking or potentially the new head of their department, I doubt it.

Please note that well, resistance: Only women are allowed to imagine and pretend out loud that men find them irresistible (!) even when said women are far from spectacularly good looking.

turtledove says

His 27-year-old son was helping him out. He is so unbelievably cute! OMgoodness! Makes me want to go out there and mess up my new lawn.

turtledove says

He's (ED: Resistance) imagining a "hunt" when in reality, at best, it's more like spectators at a zoo who naturally look up when the tiger comes into view through the window?

Okay, so you have decided that Resistance, the man, can't possibly be anything like Sod27, the sod-boy from your back yard. I wonder if Sod27 felt like he was just the new animal in the zoo or a bona-fide sex object?

justme says

Okay, so you have decided that Resistance, the man, can't possibly be anything like Sod27, the sod-boy from your back yard. I wonder if Sod27 felt like he was just the new animal in the zoo or a bona-fide sex object?

Well, he came back today to double check his work, so I guess he wasn't too scarred by the experience of a passing appreciative glance.

On a more general note, notice how turtledove is using generic shaming tactics on this thread. When Resistance says something she does not want to be true, she starts shaming him and saying that it is unlikely that he is hot enough to be an ogle-object of the female employees.

Nowhere does she acknowledge the double standard of allowing HR women ogling the new male interviewees without complaint, saying that basically "it is all in your head". The "it's all in your head" by the way, is known as "gaslighting", and is a favorite term of feminists. Except they never apply the term when men are the victims, which happens all the time.

turtledove says

Well, he came back today to double check his work, so I guess he wasn't too scarred by the experience of a passing appreciative glance.

Either that, or perhaps he needed the money. Did you make sure to double-check his ass while he was working the sod?

justme says

Nowhere does she acknowledge the double standard of allowing HR women ogling the new male interviewees without complaint, saying that basically "it is all in your head". The "it's all in your head" by the way, is known as "gaslighting", and is a favorite term of feminists. Except they never apply the term when men are the victims, which happens all the time.

I would have said the same thing if a woman came on here talking about how all the men were "on the hunt" and bemoaning how all the men want her. It's delusional no matter who says it.

justme says

Either that, or perhaps he needed the money. Did you make sure to double-check his ass while he was working the sod?

Nah... I paid them yesterday when the work was done. It was a quick visit. He just checked his work, asked me if I had any concerns about any of it, and left. Sorry to disappoint you. All I said was that he's cute. I'm not sure how that translates into groping him with my eyes. There are a lot of looks that fall between passing acknowledgment and an obsessive comatose stare. What I think is interesting is that you don't seem to see a difference. You think that any woman who glances your way is obsessed with you. That's beyond absurd. Everyone who looks your way isn't trying to figure out how she can marry you... or take advantage of you in any way. Anyone, male or female, who thinks that everyone is trying to get into their pants and take advantage of them is suffering from serious delusions. Even the really good looking ones. The self centeredness it requires in order to believe that everyone is in love with you is an unattractive quality no matter what a person looks like. Most normal people would find that pretty repellent in very short order.

turtledove says

What I think is interesting is that you don't seem to see a difference. You think that any woman who glances your way is obsessed with you. That's beyond absurd

Exactly. That is what us have been saying for decades. Just because a man looks at you and thinks you are hot-he did not rape you mentally or magically turn you into a sex doll/object. It is nature-you enjoy the sunset, flowers or a breathtaking women or some jiggling bouncy boobs.

Men never cared either, but then since this was made PC and men called rapists for the said act, men are just saying hey-women indulge in the same too. That if it is mental rape for one gender, then should it not be mental rape for the other gender too?

Remember we live in a world where a woman got a restraining order against david letterman, because she claimed in court docs that he was harassing her through his TV show and sending coded signals through TV or some such. Some judge actually gave her the restraining order. That is the world feminazis have created and men are saying -hey all these things you accuse us of-you do it yourselves-so what is the big deal? or does it matter only if men do it???

I don't believe that everyone is in love with me. I do believe that most people have inherent sex drive, and desires, much more aligned with mine. For whatever reason, society embraced dumb ass puritanical nonsense that one should be ashamed of it. And from that, all of this suffering abounds

Ironman says

Yep... There are times when I'm out and about with my wife, and she'll catch me checking out a hot woman. My response is, 'I might be married, but I'm not dead"... Life's too short to worry about the little issues....

Exactly. I said to my husband yesterday, "isn't Fernando's son a hottie?" To which my husband replied, "he's not my type." I made a joke about messing up the lawn so he'd have to come back and redo it... We laughed. End of story. Doubtless, explaining this to apparently socially awkward people will be fruitless. They are certain that the female world really is after them.... so obviously, nothing I could say could ever be right.

I have had thousands and thousands of female clients, working in close quarters with them, and never once did anything come up where the women acted like something was wrong or inappropriate, even when there were awkward moments.

Most women are pretty pragmatic beings on the whole. They don't like it if you treat them like a neuter, because they like the idea that they can get something for nothing or get one over for their sexuality, but if they are treated as a neuter, they will have a brief snit and then act like a neuter.

Of course, I was afraid of all of them, so maybe they knew they had the upper hand.

Face it, women are just plain scary.

turtledove says

Who is saying that you cannot? A loud minority? Do you really fear that looking at a women will result in a rape allegation? Do you really feel that there's an epidemic of rape allegations against guys who simply look at women?

That it happens and women started the crap is what I am saying and so men are just throwing it back at women. Heck two men have been arrested in NY for manspreading-it is happening -the feminazis start this crap and then when men throw it back at them-become all coy and innocent like.

Unfortunately men live in the world of mattress girl-it is not some local minority, but the law that one has to be cognizant about. In college I had a nice affair with a wild chick. She gave me a few hints, didn't take it. One day in the computer room-way back then-she gave me a nice shoulder/neck massage with her boobs brushing against me. Boy did I get the message-we had a great time for a while and drifted apart later on. Now if the genders were reversed-the male can be arrested for sexual assault etc etc etc. There is a double standard and all men are saying is -either knock it off or accept to be judged by the same standards.

turtledove says

Don't judge me

Don't rape me

I owe you nothing

Women are individuals

No more violence against women...

You're right. These are foolish ideas.

It's the alpha male in the second pane who would do all those things. The beta males in the first pane aren't. That's the point.

Dang, I mean I don't care if my wife gets hot and bothered looking at some handsome guy on tv or whatever, as long as she takes out those feelings on me! It's happened before, and I'll tell you a secret: I have watched a few shows I didn't like all that much just for the effect a leading dude had on her!
Sometimes women like to look, too. Just because their primary turn-ons aren't as visual as mens' are, doesn't mean they don't work that way sometimes. That's why I try to keep myself reasonably in shape!

Dan8267 says

It's the alpha male in the second pane who would do all those things. The beta males in the first pane aren't. That's the point.

I get it. And if you read my next paragraph it says that both men and women have made poor partner choices at times when struck by cupid's arrow. But at the end of the day, most intelligent people don't really want a self-obsessed life partner who mistreats them. Further, most intelligent people want more than a one-dimensional Barbie/Ken. So, yes it's funny. We've all been there. But when the hormones settle, I just don't think that scenario depicted in the cartoon has the long-range sticking power to be generalized in a truly meaningful way.

Prowling Women, take me, take me! Where are they all!

Ceffer says

Prowling Women, take me, take me! Where are they all!

That's easy. You just need to get inside of the imaginations of certain men. Just don't stay too long. I wouldn't want you to return to us wanting Hilary for president.

turtledove says

But at the end of the day, most intelligent people don't really want a self-obsessed life partner who mistreats them.

Sure, once women reach 30, but it's not 30-year-old women shooting "don't rape me" at beta males on college campuses who are in no way rapists while drooling over the very alpha males that are. I'd be shock if less than 98% of rapes on college campuses are committed by anyone other than alpha males or "bad boys". And women who sleep with bad boys are promoting the very rape culture they blame on innocent beta males. Women who reproduce with bad boys biologically contribute to the problem passing on both the trait of sexual aggression in males and the preference for that trait in females.

To end rape, women must stop sleeping with the sexually aggressive kind of men who rape. Genes matter. Rewarding some males with reproduction and punishing others with the lack of it is the very mechanism of selection of genes. The more beta males who reproduce instead of alpha males, the less rape in each successive generation until there is no more. In contrast, women having babies with bad boys, which happens often, increases sexual violence in all subsequent generations. The human race has not stopped evolving because we have iPhones.

Ironman says

...that you're talking out of your ass again... but that's just another day on Patnet with you!

Once again you have a man's ass on his mind. You should just come out of the closet already.

turtledove says

He can pretend all those women are really drooling over him... In my opinion if he isn't really good looking or about to be hired for a position that could impact their lives then it's probably in his head.

Didn't say drooling, or that I was good looking. Just said that women have this perhaps hypocritical pattern of behavior where they are constantly checking out and evaluating the new guy while pretending they are not.

But I have noticed that since I got into lifting weights and grew a beard that the interest level from them is higher than it was. Not imagining things.

resistance says

Didn't say drooling, or that I was good looking. Just said that women have this perhaps hypocritical pattern of behavior where they are constantly checking out and evaluating the new guy while pretending they are not.

But I have noticed that since I got into lifting weights and grew a beard that the interest level from them is higher than it was. Not imagining things.

Okay, that's fair... but looking at you and plotting your capture aren't the same thing. Enjoy the attention. If it makes you happy, pursue it. If it doesn't, cut her lose.

www.youtube.com/embed/M902ZJHzaLE

resistance says

When interviewing at a new company, I alway notice a small flurry of interest in me by all the women who I come into contact with.

The effect seems subtle until once aware of it, but then it's unmistakable and not subtle at all. From the receptionist to the HR woman to potential co-workers, there's a feeling I'm being watched, judged, and talked about. An unlikely number of new random women just happen to walk by and look into the room where I'm being interviewed, no doubt informed explicitly or implicitly by the other women that there is a new man to evaluate. They cannot let the competition get there first! They smile and say hello, as if that were normal on the street. But it's not.

You didn't manage to come out with a phone number or invitation to the local watering hole? That's pathetic. Sounds like a problem with hypogonadotropism not with women.

bob2356 says

You didn't manage to come out with a phone number or invitation to the local watering hole? That's pathetic. Sounds like a problem with hypogonadotropism not with women.

That just might work. Hit on the receptionist when going to your job interview! It takes balls do do that, and the exact same women that would normally accuse any guy of sexual harassment if they could, probably would swoon over such a move. But it could also backfire in the most spectacular fashion.

Quigley says

Just because their primary turn-ons aren't as visual as mens' are, doesn't mean they don't work that way sometimes.

Women are every bit as visual as men, it is just that they would like to hide that fact from the large fraction of the male population that they are frankly not all that interested in looking at. Basically, this tripe that women are not visually stimulated is just another tool from their propaganda toolbox. Don't fall for it.

Is is the same propaganda toolbox that contains the phrases "but I hardly know you, we should get to know each other better first", or "women are different, we don't just want to have sex, we need to develop feelings first". Any man that has ever been objectified as a provider-object rather than a sex-object surely has heard these phrases or some close variation thereof. It's complete bullshit. It just means that she is more interested in you providing for her than she is in having sex with you.

Quigley, I think the right way to say it is that women also have OTHER turn-ons than the visual. But their visual turn-ons are every bit as strong as they are for men. It is just that it is to their benefit to hide that fact, and lie about it.

turtledove says

That's easy. You just need to get inside of the imaginations of certain men. Just don't stay too long. I wouldn't want you to return to us wanting Hilary for president.

The fevered ramblings of the biologically insecure male! The wailing and gnashing of teeth of all those unrisen and unborn spermatozoa!

Dan8267 says

In all fairness, this is a biological, evolutionary mechanism, not a conscious choice of the part of women. It's not like they have any say in the matter.

Women do have a conscious choice to make, absolutely. Women are quite aware of when is "the horny time of the month". Now, they can choose to be forthright about when that is, or not, but most of them will not be forthright about it, and hide it as best they can, especially if they are with a man from which they want extract resources and effort.

In other words. the ability to hide the external symptoms is evolutionary, but the choice not to tell is made consciously.

YesYNot says

Dan8267 says

Imagine if all your female coworker's asses turned red and plump whenever they ovulated. I don't think most people would be comfortable with such a work environment.

Thankfully, most of us guys aren't throwing poop at each other and masturbating all over the place too.

You mean it's just my company? I should ask for a raise.

Dan8267 says

I don't know who TurtleDove blames.

I blame people. I think that many people get into relationships for the wrong reasons only to learn later that they made a terrible match. I don't think people are doing it on purpose. Are there women out there who are looking to trap a man? Yes. Is that all women? No. Are there men out there who are seeking a really young woman to help them through their mid-life crises? Yes. Is that all men? No. It's absurd to say that all women are "this" and all men are "that." We're individuals. In fact, we're kind of like people that way.

Dan8267 says

I think the mating market has shifted towards short-term, disposable relationships because of the pill, the removal of reputation as a means for men to filter undesirable mates, and the decrease necessity for women of choosing good mates to ensure their children's survival and their financial well-being.

The mating market... The real question in the end is who gets to breed.
Too many people here are talking about sex and choosing a mate. The reality is short-term, disposable and sterile relationships don't count.
Having kids makes a woman dependent on a man. This is not just a question of evolutionary biology, this is also practical logic.

Absolutely. Take Naomi Wolf. I bet you $10 when she was in her 20s, she dated older men. Now she is writing about how terrible it is that 30s-50s men are bringing hot young things to parties instead of dating "Wonderful Women" like herself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/a-wrinkle-in-time-twenty-years-after-the-beauty-myth-naomi-wolf-addresses-the-aging-myth/2011/05/11/AGiEhvCH_story.html

Heraclitusstudent says

The real question in the end is who gets to breed.

Depends on what you value. If you value only your genetic code then yes, that's all that matters. Of course, you are no different than an amoebae, a slug, or any other creature that is a slave to its DNA. Of course, with the human population at 7 billion, peak baby, and the population at maximum capacity, your individual reproduction is an utterly insignificant and transient contribution to humanity's genetic code. Especially so when 99.9% of your genetic code is identical to everyone else on the planet.

If you value the genetic quality, by whatever standards you have, of the human race, then again yes that's all that matters. However, as genetic engineering and designer babies become the norm -- and they will -- then ultimately most of the genes in beta males and females will be selected for such as genes for intelligence and compassion. So it doesn't matter who reproduces as their offspring will have these beta genes injected into them in order to compete with everyone else.

If you value happiness, then no. All that matters is how happy you are during your very brief existence.

If you value meaning, then it depends on what you think gives your life meaning. I value family, but I don't need to have kids of my own. I would be quite content bringing happiness to nieces and nephews, taking care of my aging parents, and having wonderful friendships and family quality time.

Dan8267 says

I've seen a few betas in their mid-20s get noticed and appreciated by women. They always end up married and their wives are very happy with them. But those wives are rare and way smarter than most American women. I've never seen one of these marriages end up in divorce and today that says a lot.

worked for me. we were both 25 when we got serious, married at 30, and it's been very good. she stayed home with the kids for the first 7 years or so because her mother told her she should.

young wives and a pretty big age difference would help a lot with marriage stability. women should get married at 22 and men at 32 imho, and the women should stay home until the kids are at least 10, for optimal happiness all around (not perfectly happy, just the most you can realistically be). when the kids are pretty independent, the women will still have significant career options if they want them. motherhood is a great thing, and should not be disparaged.

http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/france-upholds-the-ban-on-paternity-tests/

Theres no mistake in the title. It is true French men are forbidden by law to attempt to find out whether the child they are paying for is in fact their child or not. In fact, it has been illegal for men to attempt to find out if their child is theirs for many years. But a few days ago, the ban was challenged once again–and the government upheld the ban. Is it really a surprise that a socialist government disagreed that men have human rights too? Whats even more striking is that there is NO mainstream media...

Dan8267 says

Why do people have the wrong reasons?

For a million different reasons that cannot be neatly explained with "girls do this and boys do that." Society isn't Wild Kingdom. We have complex psychologies. Experiences affect why one person might choose a particular path over another. Abused, mistreated, popular, rich, poor, educated, uneducated, two parents, one parent because of divorce, one parent because of a death, large families, small families, families with pets, families without pets, working mom, stay-at-home mom, siblings with disabilities, siblings who are superstars, a traumatic event, struggling to learn, being a genius, suffering from an illness... there are literally a zillion things that help to shape the people we become. And even then, we are still changing. What you wanted at 20 probably isn't the exact same thing you want now.... and I'm sure it will change again as the years go by. To say that "men must do this because that's what men do is to deny your very own individualism and marginalize the richness of your past experiences. Why would it be any different for women?

rando says

It is true French men are forbidden by law to attempt to find out whether the child they are paying for is in fact their child or not.

Probably because that would lead to them not having to pay, and then no one would.
The other approach of course is to force men paying for kids they know aren't theirs, which I think is done in the US.

Incidentally, I think in most cases a man can tell whether the child is his or not. In many cases it is obvious.