patrick.net

thunderlips11 says

The worst case scenario is that the Donors of the Republicans go for Hillary, because they know she's a Free Trader and Outsourcer and Insourcer extraordinaire, and will keep Insurance Company Subsidies (Obaromney Care) in place. And that the Republicans might become a right-wing populist party instead of the Democrats becoming a left-wing populist party.

I've wondered this as well. If Trump wins the nomination, will we see establishment Republicans endorse Hillary? That would really hurt the downballot candidates.

If the Democrats made a serious attempt - they should have done so last year - to reach out to the Rustbelt secular working class white Republicans - they would probably find the field is far more lucrative than they imagine.

"In muddy waters, one catches the most fish" - Chinese Saying.

Dan8267 says

Trump is going to end outsourcing, destroy ISIS, fix the Middle East, solve the immigration crisis, etc. The question is how?

It's easy enough to end outsourcing with things like tariffs. The government can also refuse to do business with any company that outsources. Destroying ISIS would be pretty easy too. One Marine division is probably more than enough. Solving immigration is easy too, just seal the border. It can be done if one actually tries. Just shoot to kill anyone trying to cross over. The flood will stop pretty quickly. Then make it impossible to employ an illegal in the US (by throwing employers of illegals in jail). Pretty much all out problems can be solved with just a little backbone.

FortWayne says

conservatives bring jobs back.

Trump is a whole new way of thinking. The Conservative moniker is sullied in my book.
Not anything you should be proud to be called. It's just a new way of saying Draconian Liberals.

Trump is the first guy in years to come along that doesn't HATE America.

Let's say if a stiff like Jeb Bush is president," Trump theorized. "Okay? Let's say Jeb Bush is president. Low-energy person, but that's okay. Let's say Jeb becomes president. Look, Jeb is president. They'll go to him. He has $128 million that he got from donors, special interests, everybody. Lobbyists. So Ford will hire one of the lobbyists."

Trump said he knows how the game is played because he used to be on the "other side." The Republican frontrunner said he used to be "total establishment" and now he's the "worst thing that ever happened to the establishment:

TRUMP: Look, I know this game better than anybody. I've been playing this game for a long time, folks, from the other side. I changed sides. I was total establishment. Now I'm like the worst thing that ever happened to the establishment. Because I understand the game! So now, they go to, let's say, Jeb. They say Mr. President, this is very bad thing. I agree it is bad, we have to do this, we can't allow this to happen. Then he is going to get a call from his lobbyist or his special interest, 'Mr. President, they gave you $5 million! You can't not make this deal!'...

Another one is going to call, Mr. President, they gave you $2 million. You've got to take care of Ford! Alright, I'll do it. That's the end. We lose the jobs and all the different things. With me, they're going to equal.

www.youtube.com/embed/RbM2F-cfN0A

Show me another candidate that is willing to address the economic issues in this nation in a real way. Show me one who will fix immigration to make it as intended: slower steady flow of people who ASSIMILATE! As is we have leaders who sell out America at every turn and people are rightfully pissed. I expect ludicrously high voter turnout this election season, especially among the Trump supporters. These people will fucking be there at the polls because they want change like a fat kid wants a cupcake.

zzyzzx says

I wrote tariffs. While tariffs don't necessarily force someone to manufacture something specific domestically, it should get the job done.

Exactly what kind of tariff is going to get Apple to stop manufacturing iPhones outside the U.S.

I hate to break this to you, but it's too late to undo the damage caused by the Boomers selling off the country's manufacturing and infrastructure. You think that America is the only market for technology? Not any more. Because we decided to have all the manufacturing and IT done in cheap labor markets like China, those labor markets are now consumer markets and ones that don't have to buy from us. As soon as the Chinese government decides it's a good time, China can continue making iPhones and any other technology product in its own factories and sell the goods to its own consumers as well as other developing and developed nations. China has the manufacturing base, the IT infrastructure, and the distribution channels. America needs China, but China does not need America.

China does not need "American innovation" to come up with new ideas. China does not need American infrastructure to build any goods including technology. China does not need America fat-ass consumers to sell things to. Americans make up a measly 5% of the world population. China has a quarter and India another quarter. China can easily sell to 80% or more of the world population. American Tariffs and embargoes aren't going to do shit.

Put simply, the greed of capitalists, particularly in the Boomer generation, has made America into a second class economy. China is now the economic powerhouse. Don't let the low quality of life of the Chinese peasants fool you. Chinese capitalists are quite rich and will have the lion's share of the global economy. All they have to do is decide it's time to reveal the dragon they have become.

Dan8267 says

but it's too late to undo the damage caused by the Boomers selling off the country's manufacturing and infrastructure.

I'm not expecting electronics manufacturing to return to the US. But it is reasonable to mandate that things like cars, car parts, appliances, furniture, and house parts be made in USA. That alone might wipe out our unemployment and underemployment issues, or at least put a serious dent in it.

If anybody recently has showed the ability to buck the GOP Establishment and make them look ridiculous, it isn't Hillary or Obama, but Trump.

Since Trump is a candidate with strong support among the Working Class Base, who wants trade and immigration reform, he's all the more powerful. Mark Levin, Glen Beck, GOP mind tricks aren't working this election. He made Ailes grovel before him and beg him to come back to do Fox Interviews back in the summer when Fox was trying to "Not a real Conservative(tm) on Trump". So Trump is actually in a better position that any Democrat when it comes to standing up to the GOP's donor base and their allies in Congress, and getting away with it.

The GOP dog whistles no longer function. The base has too many unfilled promises of Free Trade making America Great, Lies about Labor Shortages, and lies about Immigration Reform the GOP Donor Class has absolutely no intention of doing anything about aside from useless tokenism. The majority of the GOP base realizes this.

The GOP Establishment is more afraid of Trump than any other group, including Democrats. And they oughta be. They keep blowing on the whistle, but the dogs are still running away from their old master.

Enjoy it.

PS If Hillary is elected, absolutely nothing will get done. It'll be like the late 90s with both real and fake scandals, the Email Scandal is just the beginning, and there's actually some teeth in this one, it's isn't just blowjob bullshit, though you can expect tempest in a teapot FIX News crap as well.

The next 4 years will be Hillary *at best* inserting some bullshit token reforms of Obamney Care, and they will be opposed by the GOP Congress on general principle to score political points. While bombing everywhere to show that "Despite being a Woman, I'm tough." In fact the GOP Establishment will push her into more bombings by trying to shame and bait her into doing so, which being a careful politician, she will - if she doesn't preempt them. That's why Bill Kristol will be happy with a Hillary over a Trump or Rand.

She'll sign off on every free trade, H1-B visa expansion, etc. bill that comes across her desk, because she's a Tony B'lair Third Way Neoliberal.

Some Democrats think she is Elanor Roosevelt reincarnated; she most certainly is not. She's a Goldwater Girl 1%er, who has some moderate views on Social Issues, that she only embraces after it's safe to do so, like Gay Marriage.

zzyzzx says

I'm not expecting electronics manufacturing to return to the US. But it is reasonable to mandate that things like cars, car parts, appliances, furniture, and house parts be made in USA. That alone might wipe out our unemployment and underemployment issues, or at least put a serious dent in it.

Again, nothing that compromises the profitability of transnational corporations would get supported by either Democrats or, especially, Republicans. No president could get away with mandating that through executive order. Do we let the president torture human beings? Of course, human life is worthless. Do we let the president take away high profit margins obtain by using slave labor? Hell, no. Money is worth a lot of money.

You'd have to undo every economic policy implemented since the start of the Reagan administration. You'd have to break up pretty much every company in the Fortune 500 and reinstate the anti-trust laws that had been neutered by Reagan. You'd have to eliminate lobbying. You'd have to ban superpacks and other political packs. You'd have to get public-financed only elections to be the law of the land. Shit like this can't be done by executive order. An attempt to do so would simply be laughable.

Put simply, you'd have to elect Bernie Sanders as president as at least 80 other like-minded people in the Senate and hundreds in the House as well as replacing at least 4 of the Supreme Court justices. Then, and only then, could we bring manufacturing back to the U.S. or end outsourcing and H1B Visas.

Dan8267 says

No president could get away with mandating that through executive order.

I don't know, but one can try passing legislation through congress. I think it would pass. I am not worried about pricing since imported stuff is often the same price as made in USA stuff anyway. Profit margins might suffer temporarily, true. I don't know that it would take the lobbying effort you suggested either. Maybe just an accurate name like Good Jobs for Americans.

zzyzzx says

It's Clinton who signed NAFTA and Obama that wants TPP. So I'm confident that Trump and a Republican congress can impost tariffs, especially after the Trump tidal wave that will occur in November.. Plus I've noticed that the overwhelming majority of bumper stickers supporting Democrats are on imported cars.

Dems are no shining stars on trade, but they are certainly better than Republicans. Look at the NAFTA voting. Clinton had to twist some arms to get Dems to pass it--there was no such arm twisting necessary for Reps.

thunderlips11 says

PS If Hillary is elected, absolutely nothing will get done.

Yep. This is the outcome matrix.
1. Sanders - A few reforms get done. Most bullshit gets blocked. Congress remains obstinate. This is the best-case scenario.
2. Hilary - No reforms get done. Most bullshit passes. The worst ideas from the Republican Party get blocked. Congress remains obstinate.
3. Any Republican candidate - Continuous attempts to get Obamcare repealed with a slight chance of that happening and, if it does, causing a massive breakdown of the health care system and chaos. The worst ideas from the Republican Party get passed and America's economy goes in the toilet. America is at constant war and losing on all fronts. Terrorism increases.
4. Trump - In addition to #3, American becomes the laughing stock of the world. Our allies distance themselves from us. Nothing productive happens in Congress. Our military gets its ass constantly kicked by weaker powers due to stupid, arrogant, and ignorant decision making by a self-delusional ego-maniac who cannot admit that he's just plain stupid.

zzyzzx says

I don't know, but one can try passing legislation through congress.

There is no way that a bill compromising corporate greed interests would get passed by Congress. Even if the Democrats had a supermajority, they could not pass such a bill because there would be enough Democrats not supporting it. You would need a Congress in which the majority of people were exactly like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders to get such a bill passed. Then you would need a president like Warren or Sanders to not veto it. Finally, you'd need to replace the four conservatives, and yes I'm including Kennedy, on the Supreme Court with liberals to prevent any such law from being struck down as Unconstitutional. It does not matter what the content of the bill is, if the transnational corporations don't like it, the courts will declare such a bill Unconstitutional and fill in some flimsy and disingenuous justification.

Dan8267 says

There is no way that a bill compromising corporate greed interests would get passed by Congress. Even if the Democrats had a supermajority, they could not pass such a bill because there would be enough Democrats not supporting it. You would need a Congress in which the majority of people were exactly like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders to get such a bill passed. Then you would need a president like Warren or Sanders to not veto it. Finally, you'd need to replace the four conservatives, and yes I'm including Kennedy, on the Supreme Court with liberals to prevent any such law from being struck down as Unconstitutional. It does not matter what the content of the bill is, if the transnational corporations don't like it, the courts will declare such a bill Unconstitutional and fill in some flimsy and disingenuous justification.

I think Trump will try, and succeed, without having to go through all the trouble you mention.

Dan8267 says

Just look at the class of people on this site who support him.

CIC demonstrates this point exquisitely in his posts above. He adds nothing to the conversation and comes off like a six-year-old throwing a tantrum. It is precisely this level of immaturity and stupidity that it takes to be a Trump supporter.

Ironman says

Ahhh, poor baby... You can dish out lies and bullshit but can't handle the truth when it comes back to you? Boo Hoo!!!!!

What are you, a second grader? Honey, your feeble and uncreative attempts to insult me don't even register. You cannot do humor and you cannot be taken seriously. And besides, I have no respect for you so it's impossible for me to give a shit what you say.

Do you really think I'd be insulted by lame homophobia? I'm all for marriage equality and equality under law. I've debated conservatives on the morality of gay man-on-man butt sex and crushed them. Why the fuck would I care if a bigot like you calls me gay? It's as insulting as if you said I had blonde hair. Just because something is inaccurate, doesn't make it insulting. You really are too stupid to understand that.

Dan8267 says

CIC demonstrates this point exquisitely in his posts above. He adds nothing to the conversation and comes off like a six-year-old throwing a tantrum.

Oh yeah Dan, you should be talking...

Trump: "I'll force Apple to make its 'damn computers and things' in US"
http://www.zdnet.com/article/trump-ill-force-apple-to-make-its-damn-computers-and-things-in-us/

8 years of G.W. Bush & his slime posse stopped all outsourcing & placed 1000% tariff on imported goods to make America strong again.

zzyzzx says

I think Trump will try, and succeed, without having to go through all the trouble you mention.

And if you thought monkeys were going to fly out your ass, that would be convincing too.

Your assertion lacks any reason to believe it.

FortWayne says

Oh yeah Dan, you should be talking...

In other words, you still don't have any response to any argument I made showing you are incorrect.

Ironman says

You really need to get a life (outside of Youtube and Georgie's).

For someone who's mentioned Georgie's hundreds more times than I've been there, you sure were a coward not to show up twice! You also seem quite obsessed with it. That supports my theory that you are a self-hating closeted homosexual.

Heraclitusstudent says

Trump: "I'll force Apple to make its 'damn computers and things' in US"

http://www.zdnet.com/article/trump-ill-force-apple-to-make-its-damn-computers-and-things-in-us/

From the article,

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump's says he'll force Apple to bring its manufacturing back to the US and slap a massive tariff on imports.

Do we really want a president who doesn't even know the basics of how our government works. Tariffs are taxes and thus can only be introduced by Congress. The most a president can do is ask Congress to pass a tariff act and if they do then sign it. Does Trump think he can order a tariff to be enacted? No, that's not how our government works.

Ironman says

Are you a parrot??

If I were a parrot, you'd try to molest me.

Dan8267 says

In other words, you still don't have any response to any argument I made showing you are incorrect.

Why would I ever argue with the most intelligent person in the world? Clearly us mortals who live on earth are inferior to the intelligence of your moon people colony that you come from.

The real question is why won't you present an intelligent argument based on facts and free of self-contradiction and hypocrisy instead of bitching about how arrogant you think your opponent is when really he's just demonstrating the intelligence gap between educated liberals and white trash conservatives.

So I finally had to see what the all the ruckus about the Donald was about and went to a Trump event in in Iowa. The last time I went to a political thingie was when I visited Obama event in CA before his first term.

he certainly matches up Obama in personality and excitement and the event had a surprise guest-Sarah Palin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was lively and fun and so much energy-methinks he is going to win. It was 13F and snowing and there was a huge crowd waiting in line-just so much energy. Lot of interesting people-didn't think I would see such a huge event in Iowa of all places in 13F snowy weather.

Ironman says

Why

Anyone who thinks climate change is fake is a moron whose opinion does not count.

Yes, your "arguments", and I use that term loosely, are convincing only to morons who think that climate change is a hoax that millions of scientists all around the world from every country and culture are conspiring to fool everyone else. I will concede that you represent conservatives very well.

Dan8267 says

Yes, your "arguments", and I use that term loosely, are convincing only to morons who think that climate change is a hoax that millions of scientists all around the world from every country and culture are conspiring to fool everyone else.

We are already up to a million scientists already? Pretty big leap from about 12 from last week to millions this week. They really must be putting something new in that cereal.

FortWayne says

We are already up to a million scientists already? Pretty big leap from about 12 from last week to millions this week.

The fact that you think only 12 scientists hold the position that climate change is real shows how divorced from reality you and other conservatives are. There have been tens of thousands of peer reviewed papers written about climate change stating unequivocally that it is currently happening.

There are islands that have been populated for thousands of years that have suddenly been swept over by the ocean. How do you explain that in your delusional world? David Blaine? Are you really so stupid that seeing something happen right before your eyes isn't good enough proof? Or do you simply not care unless climate change wears a turban and prays to Allah?

www.youtube.com/embed/9P7jXveokDY

When trees are literally under the sea, only fucking idiots deny the reality of climate change.

This used to be land, you idiot. You're not suppose to be able to swim on land.

Climate change deniers are the dumbest people on the planet.

I see once again when Fort Wayne is confronted with facts and video evidence showing he is utterly wrong, he simply goes silent. Those underwater trees and islands don't support your claims that climate change is fake, Fort Wayne?

jazz music says

expatriated anonymous wealth is being used to anonymously buy up all the good real estate on the behalf of untraceable persons; Is anybody stopping that?

In California, this is mostly chinese nationals with a sprinkling of russian oligarchs. Still I often hear the term 'chindian' bandied about. Indians ain't the ones buying up houses in the bay area, LA or OC using blind trusts.

The "right to work" movement is disingenuous bullshit whose sole purpose is to destroy labor's collective bargaining power, which is the only bargaining power that most labor has. It's designed to lower wages even further, which is to say, it's designed to allow employers to tax their workers even more.

The solution is to tie executive compensation and shareholder payouts to worker wages. Don't let the owner class make more money than the wealth producing class. If the owners want to get richer, they should only be able to do so by making their workers richer. The failure to make this connection is the fundamental flaw of capitalism.

Dan8267 says

I see once again when Fort Wayne is confronted with facts and video evidence showing he is utterly wrong, he simply goes silent. Those underwater trees and islands don't support your claims that climate change is fake, Fort Wayne?

Dear Dan, climate has been constantly changing before human race even existed, I don't get your point or what it has to do with outsourcing as the topic.

Ironman says

Guess what Einstein.. The apartment you're currently living in was once under water, long before SUV's and power plants were invented.

Yeah 65 million years ago. That doesn't mean man-made climate change isn't real, dumb ass.

You really are the stupidest person in the world. Your momma must have dropped you on the head a few times while banging the garbage man.

FortWayne says

Dear Dan, climate has been constantly changing before human race even existed, I don't get your point or what it has to do with outsourcing as the topic.

I stand corrected. Fort Wayne is the stupidest person on the planet.

Let me show you the flaw in your "logic".

Premise: People were murdered before guns were invented.
Conclusion: No one can be murdered with a gun.

That's conservative logic.

In math terms, A cause C does not imply that B does not cause C. Why is that so fucking hard to understand? My two-year-old niece even understands this. Falling down causes an ouchie, but so too can touching the hot stove. Conservatives lack the reasoning skills that even two-year-olds possess.

Maybe if I phrased it another way... Obama pointed out that Americans died of cancer long before terrorism. Therefore, we don't have to worry about terrorists killing Americans. Do you agree with Obama or is man-made climate change real?