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To some Zimmerman's story is fact. To others it's the story of a guy who very easily may be trying to avoid going to prison for a very very long time. The only witnesses are witnesses to a fight after it started.
Maybe you and I define "confronted" differently.
look at this asshole, he's still going!
stop talking about Trayvon. that thug is gone and buried in the ground for weeks already and you libtards continue to parade his corpse around in some retarded attempt to claim racism.
guy got popped trying to knock someone out. most clear cut case of self defense ever. i wish trayvon would have tried to attack me, i would have put the bullet in his brain, multiple times!
Getting out of the car with a loaded weapon in pursuit of a citizen who was on his own private property violated the law right then and there.
Not a crime. A lot of people think its smart to have a concealed loaded weapon on their person at all times. The FL law agreed with GZ.
I'm not sure what prosecuting 90 year old men for crimes they committed ~70 years ago has to do with this, but it's very telling how far you're stretching your anti white bias if that's the best you can come up with to show that whites are just as violent as blacks.
I'm still waiting on the civil suit filed by TM's parents. Perhaps since they know they have no case, this matter will just die down and GZ can live his life as normally as possible.
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2013 Sep 4, 1:50am
Getting out of the car with a loaded weapon in pursuit of a citizen who was on his own private property violated the law right then and there.
Not a crime. A lot of people think its smart to have a concealed loaded weapon on their person at all times. The FL law agreed with GZ.
I'm not sure what prosecuting 90 year old men for crimes they committed ~70 years ago has to do with this, but it's very telling how far you're stretching your anti white bias if that's the best you can come up with to show that whites are just as violent as blacks.
I'm still waiting on the civil suit filed by TM's parents. Perhaps since they know they have no case, this matter will just die down and GZ can live his life as normally as possible.
Not to mention that Zimmerman was not pursuing Martin when Zimmerman exited the car.
Why do John Bailo and Marcus hate the consideration of all relevant facts taken in context?
Forget about the fight...no one really saw what happened.
The only facts are these -- a deranged man sat in his car stalking kids for a year and finally went after one with a gun.
+1
Why do John Bailo and Marcus hate the consideration of all relevant facts taken in context?
How can you not see your own extreme prejudice ?
Trayvon Martin was a POS human being and karma bit him in the ass at a young age
Even Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have moved on.
True, but there are a lot of right wing retards who think it's hypocritical for them not to speak out every time a black kid murders a white person. Regardless of the fact that NOBODy is claiming that the victims deserved it, or that the murderers are not guilty of murder.
So where's the comparison to Zimmerman/ Martin? I know where it is, and it only speaks to the stupidity and racism of those calling those guys hypocrites.
(Note: If you still hold that Zimmerman's acquittal was fair, that's fine. It has nothing to do with my point. If you are fair - and even if you are right - you should be capable of at least seeing that there is a legitimate argument to be made that Zimmerman should have been found guilty of at least manslaughter. Again, that is even if you are correct in your thinking. )
None of these heinous crimes people bring up are ones where anyone has any kind of legitimate argument about whether they should have been arrested or not or whether or not they should do serious time (or maybe be executed) for their crimes.
Bap33
2013 Sep 4, 3:30am
If you are fair - and even if you are right - you should be capable of at least
seeing that there is a legitimate argument to be made that Zimmerman should have
been found guilty of at least manslaughter.
no, GZ should not have even been arrested or detained. He did no crime. Spike Lee did a few crimes related to this case. When will he be arrested?
Bap33
2013 Sep 4, 3:36am
It built up in that community until it spilt over to the regular media - which
led to arguments like those that occurred here. A lot of fairly intelligent
people thought, what the fuck ?
complete bull shit.
the head racist in charge went on TeeVee and said, "if I had a wild ass dopesmoking gang banger for a kid, he would look like TM".
And then the DOJ put a pile of agitator people on buses to go act like protestors in front of the policestation. All staged by Lord Obama and hid band of racist scum.
You can only get away with the crap these progressive/liberal/leftists are doing because their "base" is a bunch of ignorant druggies. Only a deviant mind would not see the obvious wrong in each and every step Lord OhBumYa has taken.
Bap33
2013 Sep 4, 3:44am
Maybe you and I define "confronted" differently.
maybe ... it seems liberal/leftist/progressives change the meaning of words at will ... like gay, or right, or good, or sex //// remember, clinton dont think a blowjob is sex ... and hillary just played along so she could all-of-a-sudden become some political force .... you're living the life of a mushroom, pardner.
There is a big world outside of your classroom and cyber-bubble, and it is full of people that do not do drugs, do not get drunk, do not avoid God, do not steal, do not hurt others, do not support deviant activity, and do not think everything is relative and shades of gray. We are here, we aint queer, and we have no fear. (I just made that up. A little corny? lol)
If you are fair - and even if you are right - you should be capable of at least seeing that there is a legitimate argument to be made that Zimmerman should have been found guilty of at least manslaughter.
100% false. There was nothing physically threatening about the situation until TM committed violence and prevented GZ from retreating. TM's attack on GZ was so unwarranted and over the top that GZ could not have reasonably foreseen it coming.
TM committed the life threatening violence. GZ forced TM to immediately stop this life threatening violence.
This whole situation is really old news and not worth talking about anymore. Only reasonable things left are if GZ is attacked by a pro black criminal or if TM's parents choose to start a "civil rights" lawsuit then it's worthless to bring up anymore.
100% false.
I know I was way over your head with that one.
I said even if you are correct.(take that in for a minute)
Even if you are correct, you have to admit there is at least a legitimate argument to be made that Zimmerman is guilty of at least manslaughter. I'm not going to repeat all the arguments again, if you didn't understand them before.
It's called seeing both sides of the argument.
To get all self righteous and say that there isn't even a good argument to be made requires you to assume things that nobody knows, such as...
TM's attack on GZ was so unwarranted and over the top that GZ could not have reasonably foreseen it coming.
Other than from Zimmerman's testimony, nobody know how the fight started.
TM committed the life threatening violence
Again, we don't know how or why the fight started, except from Zimmerman's story.
This whole situation is really old news and not worth talking about anymore.
I agree. IT's a shame that you can not and will not even comprehend what I was saying here. I didn't even say you are wrong (i think you are - but it wasn't my point).
You can't even admit there is a legitimate argument there.
I'll admit that there is a legitimate argument to be made that it was self defense. But then unlike so many around here, I'm capable of looking at both sides of a question before making up my mind.
Look at the things Bap says. He is totally incapable of even comprehending a typical moderately liberal point of view. He needs to make it into something that it's not, to justify his highly propaganda based views.
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2013 Sep 4, 8:28am
If you are fair - and even if you are right - you should be capable of at least seeing that there is a legitimate argument to be made that Zimmerman should have been found guilty of at least manslaughter.
100% false. There was nothing physically threatening about the situation until TM committed violence and prevented GZ from retreating. TM's attack on GZ was so unwarranted and over the top that GZ could not have reasonably foreseen it coming.
TM committed the life threatening violence. GZ forced TM to immediately stop this life threatening violence.
This whole situation is really old news and not worth talking about anymore. Only reasonable things left are if GZ is attacked by a pro black criminal or if TM's parents choose to start a "civil rights" lawsuit then it's worthless to bring up anymore.
I disagree that it's not worth talking about. The media has horribly polluted the minds of the 13-18 year old crowd to the extent that this age group believes that modern US society is every bit as racist as that portrayed in the recent movie 42, where racism was thick in most parts of the US.
Ask any high school kid and see what they believe. Then attempt to portray the actual fact set to them. I guarantee they will not believe you....
Then attempt to portray the actual fact set to them
They are still open minded and learning about critical thinking, so they are bound to ask good questions. Such as, "is it right to consider Zimmerman's story to be fact based? Especially when certain parts sound so far fetched (his written statement describing the moments leading up to his shooting Martin) ?"
Everything I've heard from you, sounds like you start with what you want to believe, and then find what you like to call "facts" to back it up. But many of the most critical facts such as how the fight started, that is what was said my whom and exactly how it started, are from your point of view, based on Zimmerman's story.
Many of us are old school, in the sense that we know that we can not know how it started, but we can know that if Zimmerman had not pursued Martin, and if he stayed in his car, then Martin would still be alive.
These are by far the most important facts we know.
Everything else that might be used to argue that it was self defense comes from Zimmerman's story.
The fact is maybe it was justifiable - maybe it wasn't - it depends on who started the fight, and how easy it would have been for the guy with the gun to avoid the fight. Considering he was the stalker and the one who may have scared the other with his pursuit, it begs the question, was he thinking all along that this might lead to him shooting the kid ?
If you were honest, you would admit that we do not know the answers to this.
Instead you resort to saying Martin was a piece of shit who deserved what happened. That's fucked up.
I don't believe Zimmerman's story. Not because of bias. I just can't see any reason why I should. What the hell was he thinking ? I know he was thinking this kid was dangerous (I need a gun), and I know he thought he should be stopped and questioned about where he's going. I know he very easily might have decided to do this on his own instead of waiting for police. ("these assholes always get away).
I think you understand what happened as well as I do. It's just that you think it's okay. Just as the holier than thou dirtbag Bap does.
There is a big world outside of your classroom and cyber-bubble, and it is full of people that do not do drugs, do not get drunk, do not avoid God, do not steal, do not hurt others, do not support deviant activity, and do not think everything is relative and shades of gray.
Bap's one of those self righteous black and white authoritarian thinkers that eats up the right wing propaganda all the time. But when he's not preaching about how good he and his holy right wing brethren are, with their solid Christian values, he can be found in some airport restroom, tapping his feet.
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2013 Sep 4, 9:05am
Troll troll troll your boat
Gently down the stream.....
Y
2013 Sep 4, 9:44am
It wasn't his 'property'. He did not own shit except his online name and guns.
who was on his own private property
Y
2013 Sep 4, 9:47am
Not possible.
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/national/george-zimmerman-caught-speeding-again-given-a-256-ticket
He has to speed from spot to spot to keep ahead of the leftist racists.
He will pay a fortune in speeding tickets....
Perhaps since they know they have no case, this matter will just die down and GZ can live his life as normally as possible.
Y
2013 Sep 4, 9:53am
Contradict yourself often???
Even if you are correct, you have to admit there is at least a legitimate argument to be made that Zimmerman is guilty of at least manslaughter.
Other than from Zimmerman's testimony, nobody know how the fight started.
Y
2013 Sep 4, 9:55am
and...
"is it right to convict zimmerman of manslaughter in the court of public opinion , or any other court, when no one knows what the fuck happened..."\
They are still open minded and learning about critical thinking, so they are bound to ask good questions. Such as, "is it right to consider Zimmerman's story to be fact based?
Y
2013 Sep 4, 9:57am
'Humanity' is Marcus's way of continuing the conversation with those he has officially punished. 'ignored'..
I don't believe Zimmerman's story. Not because of bias. I just can't see any reason why I should. What the hell was he thinking ?
marcus
2013 Sep 5, 3:37am
Maybe that he didn't want the contents of his skull spread all over the concrete??
SO if your objective is to murder someone, all you have to do is get them into a fight, and then yell real loud to get some witnesses to see that that you are supposedly getting your ass kicked, and then you are free to go ahead and shoot the guy in the heart.
Oh, I think I get it now.
Y
2013 Sep 5, 3:51am
Good. So we are all in agreement.
I knew over time we could convince you.
Oh, I think I get it now.
marcus
2013 Sep 5, 6:46am
racist fantasy...
You're the one who instinctively wants to make it okay that Zimmerman stalked Martin with a gun confronted him causing a fight and eventually shot him dead,...and I'm the racist.
"B-b-b-but, Zimmerman was getting beaten up !"
marcus
2013 Sep 5, 8:45am
move on!!
I have moved on, but one last thing, I can't quite remember. Before Zimmerman pursued Martin (armed), he was talking to the police dispatcher, I know he said one of these two things to the dispatcher. Can you help me remember which one ? Was it number 1, or number 2?
1) "I understand teen fashion and that you can't judge kids by their clothes these days. And certainly that the kids race doesn't tell me that much other than a slight probabilistic difference. And I know that statistically, there is a way better than 95% chance that this kid is not up to anything criminal. But I have a hunch here, and I really think it would be good to carefully try to figure out what he's up to."
2) "These assholes always get away"
Which one was it that he said to the dispatcher?
Y
2013 Sep 5, 8:53am
It was #1....
1) "I understand teen fashion and that you can't judge kids by their clothes these days. And certainly that the kids race doesn't tell me that much other than a slight probabilistic difference. And I know that statistically, there is a way better than 95% chance that this kid is not up to anything criminal. But I have a hunch here, and I really think it would be good to carefully try to figure out what he's up to."
2) "These assholes always get away"
Which one was it that he said to the dispatcher?
marcus
2013 Sep 5, 10:55am
Right, you moved on... but still clinging to your fixation:
No, just reminding you again of what's obvious to those with reasoning skills who looked at it objectively.
But then it's true I do give you guys too much credit
and do not think everything is relative and shades of gray
That says a lot. I think most things in life are complicated, and few are black and white. It's easier when you can make a clear black/white, right/wrong determination about things, but many things in life are more complicated and take more thought.
I used to assume people who thought in absolutes were dumb, but I now think it's more about being lazy and fearful.
As far as you invoking god, I wonder what god you pray to. If it's the big J, then I think you might want to read the good book again. Compassion, understanding and forgiveness are his hallmarks, not absolutist judgment, superiority and contempt.
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2013 Sep 5, 1:35pm
Right, you moved on... but still clinging to your fixation:
No, just reminding you again of what's obvious to those with reasoning skills who looked at it objectively.
But then it's true I do give you guys too much credit
If by reasoning skills you mean:
-intentionally ignoring some relevant facts so that you can continue to stubbornly cling to your opinion
-injecting facts not based on evidence or testimony that you made up
-creating interpretations no reasonable person would based on available facts
Then you certainly are a man with tremendous reasoning skills, while the rest of us are open mouth breathers.
marcus
2013 Sep 5, 1:59pm
If by reasoning skills you mean:
-intentionally ignoring some relevant facts so that you can continue to stubbornly cling to your opinion
I've noticed that the MANY times I have pointed out to you or others that your idea of facts center on Zimmemman's story, there is never a response.
You say that I ignore facts. But you never share details.
The biggest facts of all:
1) Armed man pursues innocent young man and ends up in a fight with him, ultimately shooting him dead. Nobody knows how or why the fight started.
2) Zimmerman said of this innocent young man, "these assholes always get away."
3) Zimmerman was told, we don't need you to do that, when he got out of his car armed to pursue him. I'm sure if they had known he was armed, that instead of saying, we don't need you to do that, they would have insisted that he not do that.
These are key facts. Please share with me (FOR ONCE) the kay facts you say I ignore. And if you have any integrity or intelligence at all, please do not include any of Zimmerman's story as fact.
Otherwise can we both just agree that you're a right wing racist dimbulb ?
RealEstateIsBetterThanStocks
2013 Sep 5, 2:41pm
it's hard not to be racist against blacks though.
if you have worked with blacks you know they either have this victim mentality, blaming non-whites for everything or they hate you because they are just smart enough to realize they are intellectually inferior.
the black race will always be a "victim" race in a free society because they will always be at the bottom. every time you lose a competition you cry foul and that makes losing less embarrassing.
in fact that's the main motive behind all of the negro political movements: it's not so much about getting free stuffs from the gov (that's only a distraction) but more about "HOW DO WE HIDE OUR STUPIDITY" (blame it on racism).
because the moment the whole world knows how stupid they really are it's game over for them.
Armed man pursues innocent young man and ends up in a fight with him, ultimately shooting him dead. Nobody knows how or why the fight started.
TM wasn't innocent. He was loitering in the rain. The police dispatcher sent a police officer to the scene based on that fact alone. It is incorrect to call the event a 'fight', which means the 2 were exchanging blows. This was a 1 sided beating, not a fight.
It is a fact that TM punched GZ in the face, knocking GZ down. It is another fact that TM mounted GZ, to continue the beating and prevent GZ's retreat. These facts caused TM's death. Everything else is irrelevant.
marcus
2013 Sep 6, 12:01am
Thank you very much. Pretty much what I expected.
Zimmerman said "these assholes always get away, which is TRUE based on past robberies in the neighborhood.
A couple robberies from a couple years earlier.
why do you inject your "innocent young" bias?
What, now I get shit for calling him a young man ? (I still say he was actually a kid)
We know he was innocent at that moment. He was walking home with his skittles and Ice tea.
marcus
2013 Sep 6, 12:05am
I know.... facts suck....
No, just Fox news watchers who not only don't know what a relevant fact is, they can't process it when they get one.
Fact: you're a semi-retarded racist moron.
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2013 Sep 6, 12:37am
Marcus those are not facts.
That's why everyone here makes fun of you. You can't distinguish fact from opinion.
FuckTheMainstreamMedia
2013 Sep 6, 12:40am
Oh sorry, the part about GZ saying these assholes always get away is actually a fact. My bad. It just that you give that fact way too much weight and importance.
The biggest facts of all:
1) Armed man pursues innocent young man and ends up in a fight with him, ultimately shooting him dead. Nobody knows how or why the fight started.
2) Zimmerman said of this innocent young man, "these assholes always get away."
3) Zimmerman was told, we don't need you to do that, when he got out of his car armed to pursue him. I'm sure if they had known he was armed, that instead of saying, we don't need you to do that, they would have insisted that he not do that.
Marcus those are not facts.
That's why everyone here makes fun of you. You can't distinguish fact from opinion.
Interesting.
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How is it the murdering teenaged blacks of the past few weeks are not being talked about in the media or on here? Those same folks kept saying that TM was just a baby, just a teen aged boy, just a wee 17 year old tot .... could it be that the facts as told by GZ match the actions of the teenaged male blacks seen here in the real world over the past few weeks? This is why it is obvious that liberalism is a mental disorder, and the non-Fox media is corrupt.