patrick.net

once the kids finish school, the seller hopes to sell the house to the next sucker with the $100k premium (or higher) intact. in other words pay $900k, sell for $900k plus appreciation(they hope)

if you had paid for private school there is no sucker to recoup your $100k loss.

Beemer and hystersis,

I never did drink that Cool-Aid.

Most of my "tech" coworkers live in The Fortress, and my family does not. (Ironically, to a person, not one of the coworkers who's a "local" lives in The Fortress).

Their kids in The Fortress and my kids outside of The Fortress took the same AP courses, similar scores on AP exams, got similar SAT scores, got accepted to the same UC's, etc.

Since we didn't live in The Fortress, we were comfortable and OK with parking old beater cars in front of our residence. Even parted one out in the driveway. Mostly, my colleagues who reside in The Fortress have nicer looking, and more expensive models, and newer, rides.

The Fortress School hype is a bunch of (very expensive) crap, more about Tiger Moms Keeping Face in their Social Circles than anything else.

Private school costs a fortune and is not tax deductible. We put our two kids through private school at 12,000 a year a piece. We should have followed our friends to La Canada, who bought there, sent their kids to the local freebie, and offset the higher home cost by getting the tax deduction on their mortgage. Just my opinion--

Forgive my ignorance, but which part of the Bay Area is "The Fortress?"

Most families have more than one kid. If you're at two the 100K premium may not be worth it. After 3 it is totally worth it.

School tends to break down to the following:

Public, private, pilot/charter, religious and home schooling

Private schools are not tax deductible for the most part. Private school teachers actually make less money than public school teachers. So if the argument is that more money means a better education then simply go to public.

Charter schools are nice as a concept but the results are not that good as of yet. Until other localities allow them to be started then we will not have enough data. I think it will take a few decades before everything is fully explained.

Religious schools are fine from a religious perspective. However religions do not exactly act as places of empirical knowledge. On a higher level public and private colleges/universities do not have to take all of the credits from a religious one. In other words it is possible that say a income junior might actually be sophomore because there are only so many that can be taken as elective credit.

Home school might be fine if a parent had the time and the money to do so. There are issues recently that have came up with those wishing to go to the military afterward.

Certainly there are some bad public schools. What came up in Atlanta will take quite some time to reform. I'm in the north east and for the most part local governments have school systems. If populations go down local governments can regionalize.

In all due respects employers don't care what high school you went to as long as there wasn't a significant cheating scandal (like Atlanta)

If you have multiple kids, then paying a premium for a house in a good school district is almost always cheaper than paying for private school.

bmwman91 says

Forgive my ignorance, but which part of the Bay Area is "The Fortress?"

Well now, that's the question isn't it? Those of us who were on this site five or more years ago, used to argue against those who then called "the bay area" ALL fortress. It shrunk and shrunk.

I think this map actually shows what most would now consider 'fortress' - the areas where when all else is falling, it was still flat or even up.

Interesting. Well, at least I now have a better idea of what Burbed readers consider the RBA to be. Driving through the Fortress areas here actually reminds me a lot of the "affluent" parts of Orange County...a life imprisoned in one's own status.

With the comments above about having multiple kids, I suppose I agree there. More kids means more cost in a private education system. Still, weighing a $600k San Jose (Cambrian/Robertsville) house versus a $1.1M Cupertino house surely leaves little room for argument. You could certainly send 3 kids to private K-12 that way. Maybe not at Harker, but certainly somewhere. There are likely "better" public schools to get into elsewhere for much less than Cupertino, so that example is a little extreme. I hear a fair number of coworkers talk about how wonderful it would be to "get into" Cupertino. Fuck, dude, you have a house you paid $500k for in San Jose. If education is THAT important then spend the difference in the mortgage payments you think you want on private schooling! I suspect that it has much more to do with "status" because it just seems irrational.

Also, while private school teachers may earn less, I do not think that it necessarily means that the quality is less. As many will note, if money was the only thing wrong with the education system we could easily fix it. The issues are far more systemic, stemming from parents that see school as daycare & don't feel like pushing their kids to work hard, to a school system that is utterly terrified of lawsuits & cannot maintain discipline. In the end, I think that parenting has to be the main factor. I went to a private Catholic school for 1-8 grades & a private HS. When I got to college, it was a good mix of publicly & privately schooled kids. Truly, the only difference I could find between those of us that ended up being successful & those that didn't was in the parenting. Kids whose parents maintained discipline & instilled a work ethic generally wound up a lot better-off than those that didn't have that privilege. Hell, one of my best friends went through the East PA school district, and she attended private college with me & is now married with a bright career.

So in the end, maybe folks attach way too much monetary value to education, one way or another. Parenting tactics seem to be at least as much of a factor as school district.

bmwman91 says

The issues are far more systemic, stemming from parents that see school as daycare & don't feel like pushing their kids to work hard, to a school system that is utterly terrified of lawsuits & cannot maintain discipline.

Thanks for your post, you've set off a bit of a rant for me -

The problem with public schools in my view is that they are simply reflective of the problems in society. Some in this country have an agenda to privatize everything, but they are too simple in their thinking to understand that "private" does not equal "better" for all things. Certainly it works for things that have a profit motive, but government is there to take care of things that are NOT SUPPOSED to make a profit.

When people turn their backs on public schools, they turn their backs on society.

Our schools are inconsistent in quality and NOT equally funded. Most of these "fortress" school districts get lots of extra cash and programs that are funded by the locals. Compound that with the preponderance of kids in poorer neighborhoods who bring their home problems to school ...

By the way, my mother taught public school for 30+ years, my father was involved in Higher Ed, my brother and his wife were public school teachers, as were my Uncle and Aunt and others in my family. So my thoughts are not based on something I heard on the radio or TV chatterboxes.

ALL that said, it is understandable that people want to put their own kids in the best public (or private) school possible, and that they would pay a premium to be in the 'right' district. I wish our system supported ALL public schools, but sadly, many don't get the local 'bonuses' and also have the worst societal problems reflective of their locations...

How much is private school in your area? Assuming $8K for K-8 and $12K for high school, you are at $112 for one child. With two kids, you are at $224K.

Futher, the cost is just pass through. You should get it back when and if you sell your house. Private school is sunk.

Not saying it's always better to buy in better school district, but going the private school route usually isn't worth it.

For the record, private places usually offer multi-child discounts.

And you MIGHT get your money back if you sold between 1997 & 2006. I wouldn't really count on recovering much of anything 10 years from now on a purchase made around here. Plus, who is to say that you WANT to leave the area.

I guess I am sort of the opinion now (thanks to the replies here) that it doesn't really matter in the end. If someone is truly financially savvy they probably avoid overpriced houses in "good" districts and private schools, and instead focus their energy on parenting.

bmwman91 says

For $100,000 you could send your kid to a number of private K-8 schools and a college prep place like Bellarmine at $15k per year. It does not seem to compute. Thoughts?

Thats exactly what local residence did in the past. Lots of friends after Jr High went to St Francis, Bellarmine and Mitty. You will find they have a long tradition and very high rates of getting their students accepted to top universities. Its worth it alright. There is a long history amoung natives that proves it.

Start early planning and contact, always help...

pkowen says

Well now, that's the question isn't it? Those of us who were on this site five or more years ago, used to argue against those who then called "the bay area" ALL fortress. It shrunk and shrunk.

This is similar to the "Real Bay Area" comments on Burbed and the "Real SF" comments on SocketSite. :)

bmwman91 says

Why is it that so many people take no issue with dropping an additional $100,000+ on a house to get at a school, but balk at the notion of private schooling? For $100,000 you could send your kid to a number of private K-8 schools and a college prep place like Bellarmine at $15k per year.

Does your kid only go to school for 6-7 years? :) I'm under the assumption that Bellarmine ($16K/year during the upcoming school year, by the way) is cheaper than certain other schools because it's religiously affiliated. Is that true?

I agree with some of the others that often for 1 kid, private school can be cheaper, but for more than 1, a house in a good public school district can be cheaper.

Private schools are not all the same, by the way. There are plenty of random private schools that will charge you good money and not give you much if your kid is already a good achiever or self-motivated, and vice versa won't do much if your kid is truly a slacker.

Bellarmine tries (although not very hard in the last decade) to keep its tuition affordable. They have a huge endowment fund & a number of poorer kids go there on full scholarships. Their big thing is on community service & helping those in need (some of the foundational elements for the Jesuits). They seem to have gone way overboard in their construction projects in the last 10 years though, which I suspect is the reason that tuition has basically tripled since 2002 when I finished there.

I think that a place like Bellarmine can be justified. They get pretty upset if someone graduates & does not go to college. Hell, they really try to avoid having kids go to community colleges. There is an entire college guidance course you are required to take senior year that focuses on entrance exams, letters & more or less guides you through the process.

I do not have any kids. I am a couple years short of 30 & want to enjoy my life a bit more before it effectively ends.

bmwman91 says

I think that a place like Bellarmine can be justified. They get pretty upset if someone graduates & does not go to college. Hell, they really try to avoid having kids go to community colleges. There is an entire college guidance course you are required to take senior year that focuses on entrance exams, letters & more or less guides you through the process.

I wasn't trying to suggest that Bellarmine can't be justified or isn't a good school. I just want to put it in context for this discussion -- 1) its price is lower than a typical private school, so you can't make general assumptions about private schools in the Bay Area based solely on Bellarmine, and 2) you can't compare Bellarmine easily to random private schools where the only real qualifier is that they are private without other context because lots of random private schools suck -- some just want your money. Some schools are certainly better than others about financial aid, and my impression is that Bellarmine is one of the better ones with financial aid.

Agreed. I would certainly not suggest an automatic assumption that private school == better.

Bellarmine or those more affordable, religious schools have an acceptance rate at top colleges far behind the best public schools in Palo Alto, Cupertino, Saratoga etc.

Good school districts don't come out of poor neighborhoods, fact of life. These are affluent neighborhoods to begin with, and good school districts come naturally with more affluent and well educated parents.

The good private schools in the Bay Area, Harker, Menlo School, Castilleja etc have a school tuition of $30K per year, and you may not even get in. To get into Harker, you need to start early with elementary school, because the spots in the high schools are quite limited for those who didn't go up the grades with Harker. It is not like you can just let you kids go to a crappy elementary school and jr. high, and then transition him to Philips Exeter overnight. So even for one kid, you are talking about a difference of $200K+ tuition disregarding inflation. I can assure you that schools like Harker increase their tuition much more than general inflation rate each year.

People are not stupid, especially those who can fork over $1M for their homes.

I will agree that there is some correlation between affluence & intelligence. However, I think that you may be taking it to a little bit of an extreme.

While the "top" public schools may have higher acceptance rates at "top" colleges, that does not necessarily translate into automatic affluence. It can certainly be an advantage, sure. However, I know and work with a number of folks that went to "top" colleges, and they are working with me making the same money at a top-10 employer. Naturally, it seems that a lot of the richest folks out there came from "top" colleges, so there is likely some correlation in there. At the same time, it still seems like people put aside common sense & work fervently just to "get the name." In some cases it pays off richly, but as far as I can tell, in most cases it doesn't seem to really put someone way ahead. Really, learning to work hard, solve problems and apply common sense to life seems to be a bigger delimiter between success & failure.

I suppose this might just devolve into an argument about which path leads to a happier life, which truly is pointless to discuss. I'll try not to pursue the "value of top schools" topic too much further (unless folks want to argue that topic).

OO says

Bellarmine or those more affordable, religious schools have an acceptance rate at top colleges far behind the best public schools in Palo Alto, Cupertino, Saratoga etc.
Good school districts don't come out of poor neighborhoods, fact of life. These are affluent neighborhoods to begin with, and good school districts come naturally with more affluent and well educated parents.

You can always sniff out the Real Estate Interest when you read something like the statement above. They have their turf to protect.

Cupertino and Saratoga were never a affluent area during my early times. I graduated from Fremont HS back in the day. I have friends who graduated from Saratoga, Cupertino, Homestead, etc etc. Even back in the day, the best were well know, St Francis, Bellermine, etc etc. It didnt matter where you lived.

Now that you have a massive housing bubble over the past 12 years with people overspending, somehow your trying to rewrite all the history of this region. No one would make such a comment back in the 70s 80s and 90s.

00, anymore BS you want to come up with for the public to eat up.

bmwman91 says

Really, learning to work hard, solve problems and apply common sense to life seems to be a bigger delimiter between success & failure.

Yes, following your bliss may pay off as has been the case for some.

I don't have kids nor do I pay a lot of attention to schools. So I guess I'm not an authority on the matter. That said, after moving here from NC it seems that people are a little nutty about schools. It seemed like most everyone I knew back home just went to a public school- the one they were zoned for- and that was that. They sent us runts on our way and somehow things were fine.

The attitude here is crazy. People seem to go insane trying to get their kids into such-and-such schools. They'll pay out the wazoo to live in a neighborhood. Anytime the schools face cuts or there's a whiff of trouble that otherwise gets in the way of schools out come the yard signs.

I guess I can't help but think that perhaps some of this is overblown. Like I said- my Brother and I along with everyone else in the family went to ordinary public schools and later to ordinary state colleges. We both work in highly skilled professions and have done well for ourselves. The schools we went were rated mediocre. Does sending a kid to the "best" school provide any sort of real advantage?

edvard2 says

The attitude here is crazy.

Of course its overblown, REA have their turf to protect and they will come up with a dozen 'marketing' reasons why you should overpay for a home here.

People who came to the region fall prey to this nonsense very easy. However if been here your whole lifetime, or at least during the 90s, the BS doesnt stick.. your immune.

edvard2 says

The attitude here is crazy. People seem to go insane trying to get their kids into such-and-such schools. They'll pay out the wazoo to live in a neighborhood. Anytime the schools face cuts or there's a whiff of trouble that otherwise gets in the way of schools out come the yard signs.

This is sort of why I made the thread. As a non-parent, it all seems nuts. People are focusing on schools a lot more than they are on their kids & parenting skills it seems. It just makes kids neurotic when they are force-fed a rationale that everything they do must be done for the sake of a single goal. George Carlin's bit on Child Worship sums it up pretty well. Why can't Billy go sit in the back yard & play with a f***in stick?!

Somehow it hadn't occurred to me that the schools thing was just another REA ploy. They convinced everyone that values only go up, to buy now or be priced out & that lending standards were unnecessary. It seems plausible that they warped perceptions of education too. My own experience has been that WHERE someone went to college matters a bit less than WHAT they did there. I'll definitely say that my Ivy League & MIT colleagues get a lot more attention from head-hunters, but we are all less than 5 years out of college. Among my older coworkers, it seems to matter a lot less.

hmm....while i do think that some parents are perhaps a bit overzealous about the school's ratings, and i do think that there are plenty of good public schools and that we don't all need to cram into the top schools, it's a bit laughable that people want to blame the RE whores for inventing the importance of a good school district.

I grew up here in the bay, went to public schools, graduated from UCB and then went to one of the top graduate schools in the country. Yes it was perfectly fine education but please don't kid yourself that good schools don't matter. Maybe there's not a huge difference between the top tier and good enough, but there is definitely a huge leap between good and East Oakland.

Sure. But we are arguing south-bay schools, which form what I understand have quite the same set of endemic problems as those in Oakland & that area.

ih8alameda2 says

it's a bit laughable that people want to blame the RE whores for inventing the importance of a good school district.

REA come up with all the 'marketing' talking points for you to overpay but in the long run it may not prove right. Certainly REA no longer use the Booming Tech Sector as a reason to overpay as they had 10 years ago. Since then we had a pretty nasty implosion in current number of Tech employers/jobs. Someone need to keep telling them to STFU.

bmwman91 says

My own experience has been that WHERE someone went to college matters a bit less than WHAT they did there. I'll definitely say that my Ivy League & MIT colleagues get a lot more attention from head-hunters, but we are all less than 5 years out of college. Among my older coworkers, it seems to matter a lot less.

Tech workers over the years, many still around come from SJSU, SCU, UCB, UCD, Chico, Sac State etc. Few more recently come from IVY league/MIT or even Stanford. Practically unheard of when I started in Big 8 or Tech. So much older employees are not that impressed. SV wasnt on the public radar screen for many years-decades and often ignored.

1) If you are newly married and plan to have several children, then it may be 25 years until your youngest graduates from high school. There have been huge changes in education in the past 25 years (online education for K-12; homeschooling; charter schools, open enrollment districtsetc.). Paying a big premium generally made sense in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, but is probably riskier now, as it would not surprise me at all if there were to be a massive shake-up in the public education world anytime in the next 10 years or so.

2) I have a cousin who paid huge money for a huge house in a top school district. Her husband, who thought private school was a complete waste of money, changed his mind after the eldest of his large brood was enrolled at the swanky new public school. They ended up with a HUGE mortgage and HUGE tuition payments.

3) Some parochial schools don't charge much for the third child and beyond, and they often work with parents who are church members so that EVERY child who is a member can afford to attend. Lutherans and Catholics are better than Episcopalians for keeping tuition affordable for members.

4) When people talk about a "good" public school they generally are talking mostly about test scores. But school is both an academic environment AND a social environment. There are 11 boys on the starting line-up of the football team whether the school has 250 students or 2500, and lots of parents are willing to pay for a small private school with "no cuts" athletics and school plays. A teenager who feels that he fits in at school and is kept busy with extracurriculars causes fewer problems and is less likely to get in trouble than a teenager who tried out for several things freshman year, didn't get accepted to any of them, and now smokes dope in the park after school or while cutting school. If you think private school is expensive, check out the websites for teen rehab programs.

5) What I recommend to people who aren't completely thrilled with the public schools in their area, but can't afford going private for K-12 is to use the public school for K-4 and 9 - 12, but use a parochial school for 5-8. You can supplement K-4 inexpensively with a Saturday foreign language school, swimming lessons at the YMCA, and piano lessons from the talented 12-year-old down the street. At the 5th grade level, the inferior curriculum of the public school and the public schools' aversion to tracking by ability, combined with the low morals and lack of discipline of some of the kids and their parents makes the middle school years an absolute Hell. Also, by 5th grade your child will want you to mind your own business regarding his school career, and will start to be more secretive about what is going on with his peer group, so it is more important to have him enrolled somewhere decent. By 9th grade, there is usually some sort of tracking system, and if your child tests well he will probably be able to avoid the riff raff for the most part assuming that the school district that you are in is not a complete lost cause. Also, the high school curriculum is more likely to be somewhat traditional at the high school level, while there is all sorts of experimental hogwash in the public school system at the 5th through 8th grade level. Even a run-of-the-mill parochial school will still try to teach English grammar and composition, etc., while a lot of public schools waste time with group projects involving gluing stuff to pieces of poster board. The kids who have been to parochial school usually have a better work ethic, too, which helps enormously with the transition to high school.

I completely agree with Laura's comments on the schooling! we are living in Menlo Park and actually had to pull our three sons from the high API public schools here for those very reasons.

We are now fortunate enough to have over paid for school real estate while paying tuition for private schools. Imagine how thrilled we are with that backfire!

However, we are going to put our house on the market as we are located within walking sitance to both Oak KNoll and Hillview here and the houses are currently flying off the market to get into the "great Menlo schools!" We will move to the fringe area of Redwood City, near Alameda, but still close enough to commute to their school and work.

We tried it and it wasn't for us. By the way BMR, our son got accepted to Bellarmine with honors and will be attending in the fall. Couldn't be more proud!

AnotherLaura says

while a lot of public schools waste time with group projects involving gluing stuff to pieces of poster board

Haha. Yeah, there are a number of aspects of "progressive education" that seem sort of nonsensical. It is great to allow kids to express themselves, but discipline & learning what consequences are seem to be pretty important too.

avpmenlo, congrats. Make no mistake though, your son could wind up getting stoned in the senior parking lot at lunch. There were a few kids that skipped classes & smoked pot regularly. Bellarmine has a well structured discipline system, but you still need to ride his ass all the way through. It should round him out pretty well too with their community service requirements & heavy emphasis on social justice on top of more traditional academics. It also makes attending a co-ed college something to look forward to haha.

Funniest memory: Sex-ed class during sophomore year was classic. Instructor walks in, looks at his clipboard & counts off the attendance. "32...no 33 students, OK, so 33 experts on masturbation..."

I have no children and do not live in your area but having read much of the above, it seems that the discussion is basically return on investment but not one person that I read about discussed the return on investment of the superior education, just the increase in home value, and the tax deductibility of the home vs. the non-tax deductibility of the school.

What about having brighter kids that will make more money? Care to discuss that? Maybe they will help mom and dad pay down the horrendous mortgage or school loans becuase they are more successful.

Then again, playing devil's advocate, I grew up in a small town with more cows than people in upstate New York with 2 brothers, 4 sisters, and a dad that was a blue collar worker busting his arse to put chow on the table. Somehow, I turned out OK and already have 4-5 more money in my retirement than he does; and yes I went to the public school.

Consider that maybe the kids are bright or not bright, have a work ethic or do not have a work ethic. Apples do not fall that far from the tree!! Some are sinkers and some are swimmers. I don't think the school system makes that big of a deal. The parents do and the work ethic does. I did better than my father because I don't have 7 kids and I did not grow up on a farm. That simple. Same work ethic and same intelligence, plus or minus.

Yes, I took different arguments on the same topic, I do not claim to have a corner on the market, just want to bring up stuff I did not see already discussed.

Thanks, bmr,
I'll stay on him. He has two more brothers that will be coming through, so I need him to stay on top of it!

Hilarious visual on the sex-ed class...at least they have a good sense of humor!

As you and so many others point out, parenting is the key.

civilsid says

the discussion is basically return on investment but not one person that I read about discussed the return on investment of the superior education, just the increase in home value, and the tax deductibility of the home vs. the non-tax deductibility of the school.

Yep, that's the kind of people that've been attracted to the Bay Area in recent decades.

Welcome to Our World.

Sybrib says

civilsid says
the discussion is basically return on investment but not one person that I read about discussed the return on investment of the superior education, just the increase in home value, and the tax deductibility of the home vs. the non-tax deductibility of the school.

A real "Return on Investment" discussion would include parent recouping their cost of education with interest in the future when their kid gets a job.
Nope, havent heard of that ever happening.

patrick.net definitely attracts smart and funny folks... rarely do I see comments with such different inputs and thoughts all articulated nicely with a dash of humor. now go screw yourselves.

no, seriously, i didn't realize private schools could cost as low as 8k per year?? I live in LA, where public schools are 90% bad everywhere and your 11 year old smoking pot while munching on shrooms are part of the ciriculum... but I was under the impression that private schools will cost 25k per year minimum.

but i think it does come down to proper parenting, work ethic, and you can't just rely on daytime school anymore... you have to really push your kids with extra circular activities (piano lessons, swimming, kumon?)

OO says

Bellarmine or those more affordable, religious schools have an acceptance rate at top colleges far behind the best public schools in Palo Alto, Cupertino, Saratoga etc.

They're probably focusing on standarized testing or some such. In general private schools are hyped all to hell and gone but the reality is they're almost never any better than public schooling yet cost more. Which is old news (http://www.livescience.com/2575-study-public-schools-good-private-schools.html) but for some reason, usualy political, the whole "private schools are better!!" thing won't die. The reality is no school private or public or even the "good ones" in affluent or rich areas, are some sort of guarantee at producing a more educated child, ultimately the parents have to follow through at home and be involved as much as possible to help their children learn.

This is however time consuming and difficult, and usually both parents work full time jobs these days, so for the vast majority of families the reality is they're stuck relying on the school to do nearly all the work for them.

The end of effective parenting for most American families is the true and most awful cost of the Dual Income Earner Family IMO.

OO says

It is not like you can just let you kids go to a crappy elementary school and jr. high, and then transition him to Philips Exeter overnight. So even for one kid, you are talking about a difference of $200K+ tuition disregarding inflation.

Perhaps its just me but for even a filthy rich family to spend $200K on schooling 1 child is just obscene and foolish. I really really doubt you're going to get your money's worth of schooling. More than likely its just another version of "keeping up with the Joneses" for people with more money than sense.

OO says

People are not stupid, especially those who can fork over $1M for their homes.

Stupid? No. Foolish? Sure, you can be rich and foolish as well as poor and foolish. Plenty of rich folks got reamed out in the .com and housing bubbles just like everyone else. Plenty of them waste their money on pointless things like everyone else too.

Just because the rich do it doesn't mean everyone else should aspire to it or to see it as good...

And just because everyone else is doing something doesn't mean you should either.

What I don't understand is why people buy million-dollar [i]houses[/i], shackling themselves to onerous mortgages and the stress that comes with that, just to live in these great neighborhoods. Why not go for an apartment that costs what a house in an ordinary neighborhood costs, and relieve yourself of all that risk?

In my area of Tokyo, there's one great public school near the university that everyone wants to send their kids to. Advertisements invariably mention it. And while you can buy a million-dollar SFH there, few people do. They buy 3BR apartments for half a million (or less) and get the benefits of the school district at a "regular" premium rather than a ridiculous, insane premium.

the normal people i know that went to great schools, did just okay.
they would have done the same if they went to an average school.

most people aren't taking into account the child's capacity to take in the additional benefits of a top-rated school. meaning if you're average, a great school will help but not as much as if you were gifted

people are badly confusing correlation and causation.
* because gifted people are gifted, they go to great schools and do great things.
* average people go to great schools do average things.

it's not the school but the person that determines success. average people think if you mimic a gifted person by going to the same school, this average person will have the same success which is far from the truth

it's kind of like the hippopotamus thread:REALTOR argument for owning a hippopotamus‏ except in this case, it's "parents argument for going to great schools". the school is the hippopotamus.

Springer, Blach, Mountain View HS, UC Berkeley. Public schooling was fine by me.