patrick.net

Oh yeah, I'd also appreciate it if my nicer car didn't get stolen on the first day of living there. Apparently that's a recurring theme in Redwood City.

Which apparently has YoY increases in crime:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Redwood-City-California.html

The nicer rentals in RWC are not in the flat near ECR. Rent a small 2BR house -- there are lots of those in the neighborhoods near ADLP between Edgewood and Woodside. Or look at apartments in the 280 corridor.

If you're really wanting to stay closer to El Camino, then look at San Carlos or Belmont to the north or Menlo to the south. There are a ton of condos/townhouses usually renting in Menlo east of ECR, and in a lot lower crime area than RWC.

Shouldn't the correct location for this post be in Craigslist, under "housing wanted"?

I'd second Randy - there are nice places in Menlo Park just off Ravenswood east of El Camino. Noel St. and the surrounding area. There are also pockets of condos, some of which may be rentals, near 280 in San Carlos. Near downtown San Mateo is nicer than downtown RWC, too.

My boyfriend rents in Pleasanton and from what I can tell, almost all the apartment stock there are decent to rather nice. Never had any burglary issues.

I'd suggest trying a different methodology--I'm not sure how you are searching for a place to live, but try something else. Craigslist is pretty good. Actually, local newspapers can also be pretty good--older folks who own just one rental property tend to post in newspapers rather than going through a service or posting on the net. And older folks with just one rental property make very nice landlords, generally speaking--pay your rent on time, make arrangements for maintenance, and they will treat you like gold.

You might also want to avoid apartment complexes if you can. A condoplex with a few rentals will do you better, as will a single family home.

This is a weird thread. Can we have another?

Congratulations,
Nine on topic posts in a row (on a housing blog). Let's count how many there will be befpre it degenerates into a High School-esque blabbing about boyfriends and shallow lives.

DAiryQUeen Says:

> I knew a frustrated guy who couldn’t rent a
> decent place for $5,000 in the city. Instead,
> he paid 33% over asking in the HAIGHT for
> this nice SFH for $2 mil. WOW.

Sounds like a great deal!!

For only about $15,000 (PITI + Maint) a month the guy has a nice looking older home in the Hayes Valley where he is just steps from gang members selling crack in the housing projects, drunk homeless guys in Buena Vista park and heroin addicted homeless teens who walk up and down Haight on a regular basis…

DAQU

Don't skirt the issue. Have you stacked up some colored wooden blocks and taught yourself how a "median" works yet?

eburbed,

Put your destiny in your own hands. I'm sure you can find someone else who would like an "affordable" house. Make your own condo (secure parking included!).
$975000 Two seperate homes on one lot (redwood city)

justapeon Says:
May 21st, 2007 at 10:15 am
Congratulations,
"Nine on topic posts in a row (on a housing blog). Let’s count how many there will be befpre it degenerates into a High School-esque blabbing about boyfriends and shallow lives. "

Didn't this post break that chain?

You guys are really getting creative with the graphics. That's funny.

Renting on the Peninsula is miserable. It's hard to find a decent place to live. I moved last year and the search was just awful. You do get a better place if you buy but the premium is ridiculous.

The rental stock is really poor because except for luxury apartments it's a financially irrational decision for the landlord to rent property. For single family houses or small plexes, the rental income pales in comparison to the market value of the property. It makes more sense to sell the place and invest elsewhere. The true believers who are willing to rent for rental income at 2-3% of property value are not going to be upgrading the units to something decent. When you have a business that has negative economic returns (essentially accounting profits - cost of capital) it makes zero sense to put in additional capital.

I think this logic applies to even large apartment buildings since they could be sold to developers who will replace the apartment structure with condos. There maybe zoning problems to doing the conversion but the negative returns on capital to improve the apartment building still holds.

The absurd rental price to purchase price to ratio means renting is miserable since the only the irrational rent. The problem is exacerbated if you are looking to rent a single family home because an sane landlord with a SFH should sell it.

I hope to leave the Bay Area next year. I believe I will be able to substantially improve my standard of living by moving to an area where the real estate market is less crazy.

Actually, local newspapers can also be pretty good–older folks who own just one rental property tend to post in newspapers rather than going through a service or posting on the net.

Whoa... a newspaper. I'd never thought of that. Will have to give it a try!

Having spent all of my time here in the Bay Area living in Santa Clara, I'm really surprised than San Mateo is so blah.

Screw high school, let's talk high end chef's knives.

"really want to belong to the “in-crowd”

Please stop! I just sprayed my milk all over the desk.

I grew up on the peninsula and even managed property there for 8 years.
There is very little "IN" there anymore. Trader Joes.....puleeese. Eating at overpriced eateries, naaah.

The only thing slightly cool are the kiters on the NE side of the San Mateo bridge.

To keep this topical. My advice: Get the lowdown from other residents on how well a place is renting and then play hardball.

NW side

Finding a good rental place on the peninsula does suck... but it sure sucks less than house hunting. I've seen several places I'd be interested in renting, and none that don't make me sick to my stomache at the idea of buying (at anything near the prices they're asking.)

Great graphic! Is that Manila or Miami? Any time I see corrugated sheet metal roofing I automatically think Manila.

As FAB notes just b/c you're willing to throw borrowed $'s around is no assurance you won't be rubbing elbows with the wrong crowd anyway. The difference is the renter can pull up his/her tent stakes at the first sign of lawlessness, can the loan-owner?

Since any discussion of RE is in ways a discussion about life or lifestyle in general, it can be hard to seperate the two. I find when posters include some of their personal insights and preferences it gives me a better understanding of what motivates people. Not boring at all.

@DinOR,

Good guess, but that would be Thailand.

I remember seeing on Ben's blog that some folks post their "renter's resume" on Craiglist to good effect. They ended up getting replies from landlords offering them places for LESS than they were posted in the "For Rent" section of Craiglists. This, of course, is predicated on the poster being a "desirable tenant".

MonkeyInChief... Nice price to rent ratio rant. Thankfully, there are folks like FABs parents to help keep the market honest (and mess with the FBs trying to rent out their places).

I stand corrected. Lovely view!

About six months ago a poster brought to our attention that one of the great sources for rentals in the BA are open houses. Simply enjoy the free wine, get the realtor on the side and ask them, "Do you think they would consider renting it out?"

I can't remember who, but they said they had never heard an out and out NO! Just a thought.

You did not mention if you were single or had a family

Good point - this is for 2.

Monkey In Chief,

I have had the same idea of moving out of bay area. Brought up the idea of Austin, Texas with Mrs a few times. At the beginning I was always shut down with "You are crazy". Then after I put down the real hard math that we easily pay off a brand new 3000 sq ft home and have only one of us work, I can slowly see how she's also seeing the real craziness of owning here.

Anthony

"I was going to guess Soweto"

The lack of Marlboro billboards should have told me it wasn't Manila? What I've found on Craigslist is that often FSBO listings that are "for sale" can also be found in the "homes for rent" section as well. Apparently hopeful sellers were trying not to tip their hand that the market isn't as white hot as their potential GF might believe.

Of late I've seen a lot of fluff that's available for sale, for rent or lease w/ option to buy all in the same posting. Take my wife.... please! Ta-dump.

What I’ve found on Craigslist is that often FSBO listings that are “for sale” can also be found in the “homes for rent” section as well.

Here I think it's not as obvious. The for sale/for rent house I linked to in the original post at the top was only caught because I had seen it previously, and in real life as well.

eburbed,

I agree. Although I will add that 2 years ago, it wasn't that obvious in Las Vegas either. You really had to be a "student of the market" to have caught it then, now? No thing at all. It'll get there.

OT, another crappy spring in OR. My neighbor went to Mexico and asked if I wouldn't mind watering. I assured him... no problem (and it hasn't been). :(

Speaking of Craigslist, the Bay Area ReduceOMeter hit an all time high of 198 "reduced" listings for May 18-19. So the tsunami is growing in the outer burbs.... will be interesting to see how big (or small) it is when it hits the "fortress".

Hi folks. It's been a while. I've been through two surgeries to try to slow down my heartbeat. Both failed but they've found medicine to keep my heart rate under control.

Anyway, my Mother came to take care of me through it all. I got out of the hospital on the first anniversary of my Father's death. My Mother's been wanting me to move back to the Chicago area for years. I've been here about five years. The thing is after visiting here with me she sees that I actually have a life here, while spartan.

She has recently suggested that she and my Brother (who lives on disability) might want to move out here to Oakland with me. My Mother asked me to research 3 bedroom houses to rent in the Oakland Area. My research revealed some really interesting possibilities. The decent neighborhoods offer places in the $2000-$3000 range. We have to rent a place that would allow us to keep cats. My Brother and I have a cat each. We all know that makes renting more difficult.

Anyway, I've tried to advise her to stay put. She's paid off her house and pays property taxes and association fees of around $375 per month. She's not well off but she does have a decent retirement income from Dad's state pension plus negligible investments from his life insurance policy and IRAs. She could afford to split rent with my Brother and I.

Eesh! I can't believe I'm even considering living with my Mother and Brother. My Mom's a widow and my Brother and I have never been married. I'm 37, my Brother's 35, and my Mom's 63. She's got a lot of life left, so I would think. Dad died unexpectedly last year at only 64 so who knows. (His Dad is living in Southern California and is 88 years old. We're usually long-lived.)

Beyond the concern of all of us living under one roof again, I'm concerned that my Mother isn't considering what's best for her finances. She's thinking with her heart and her loneliness and concern for me. I've tried to explain to her that this is the last place a retired person should move to because of the cost of living.

One consideration though, as she ages she'll need care. It's bound to happen, it happens to all of us. I would rather live close to her whenever this time comes because I know I'd want to participate in her care. I don't want her shipped off to some nursing home unless her care became way too complicated for me or my Brother.

Well, I'm kind of off subject, but I really wanted to let people know that there are decent rentals at decent prices out there, even if you have pets. I know that my building is close to full occupancy though. I've noticed that we have fewer and fewer vacancies, so perhaps that is changing.

It seems that my part of the East Bay is a good place to rent still. It's a much better fincancial proposition than owning in Oakland, that's for sure....

Sorry about the double post. IT didn't post so I tried again. Please delete the first post above.

For those of you who are curious about the whole Nigel/Casey/RobDawg thing, check out: http://www.caseypedia.com/wiki/Main_Page.

And remember, itsallgood™...

We went open-housing on Sunday in Mill Valley & surrounds. DAQU/TOS may continually skirt the issue in her usual, cathartic manner, but here's the facts:

* Too many homes, not enough time to see but a handful of them.
* All afternoon we ran into only 1 other couple looking.
* The agents were bored, passive, unmotivated.
* Not a single agent, no exaggeration, asked "are you working with anyone".
* None bothered to try for follow-on lead or contact info. They assumed we were just looking. This even as we walked through obviously serious about buying (folder, clipboard, taking notes, asking practical questions, etc.)
* Agents were annoyed to answer more than a couple easy questions.
* One gal chatted on her cell phone the entire time about an upcoming friend's wedding. Not a good sign for someone supposedly selling a $2.5m house (which maybe she isn't, since no one will pay $2.5m for it).

--I called today to inform one agent that we were going to bring an offer in. I was prepared to come in at about 62% of asking, which is a hard lowball. The conversation was weird. Very weird. Roughly:

Me: "Hi, I saw XXX yesterday. We'd like to come by and see it again today midday and tonight after sundown, after which I'll be prepared to make an offer depending upo....."

Him: "Thanks, I'm glad you guys liked the home." (note, at this point he has no idea who I am unless we were the only people who walked through).

"Unless you're calling to tell me you're ready to pay asking price the owner has already decided to not sell right now. I assume you weren't going to offer asking price..."

Me: "Uh no. I was prepared to make a fair offer".

Him: "Yes, I certainly understand. It is a beautiful home, and I'm sure it would sell fast if priced to sell. I've got your number (no, he didn't. I was calling from my unlisted cell phone)."

--

DAQU can keep telling me all about these bidding wars and over asking price auctions all she wants. Perhaps that's the case in the fringe neighborhoods, but not in dead-on prime Marin.

And btw, this home was _not_ a McMansion. Very elegantly done early 1990s home, with recent upgrading and spectacular views. Nothing wrong with it. Just priced way to f-ing high.

Wow, so SF proper is appreciating at a 37%/yr rate --thanks for the info, DAQU! And thanks also for reminding us that the plural of "unsubstantiated anecdote" is "data".

Randy H,

Funny how the second thing out of said agent's mouth was "no bids below asking". As in, s/he has been asked that question so many times, it's now boilerplate.

Monkey In Chief Says:

> Renting on the Peninsula is miserable. It’s hard to find
> a decent place to live. I moved last year and the search
> was just awful. You do get a better place if you buy but
> the premium is ridiculous.
> The rental stock is really poor because except for luxury
> apartments it’s a financially irrational decision for the
> landlord to rent property.

It is irrational to own rental homes on the Peninsula if you just look at the “cash on cash” return, but (as my Dad often reminds me) if he sold the homes he bought for $30-$50K in the early ‘70’s for $300-$500K in the early 90’s he would not have a bunch of homes worth $1.3mm to $1.5mm today…

but (as my Dad often reminds me) if he sold the homes he bought for $30-$50K in the early ‘70’s for $300-$500K in the early 90’s he would not have a bunch of homes worth $1.3mm to $1.5mm today…

True, but suppose he had sold them instead in late 80's (last market peak) for $600K-$1mm, invested the dough, and then bought them all back for $300-$500K in the mid 90’s (last trough). Hindsight is always 20-20 and timing (and luck) is everything. If I only had a time machine...

I wrote:

> but (as my Dad often reminds me) if he sold the homes
> he bought for $30-$50K in the early ‘70’s for $300-$500K
> in the early 90’s he would not have a bunch of homes
> worth $1.3mm to $1.5mm today…

Then HARM Says:

> True, but suppose he had sold them instead in late 80’s (last
> market peak) for $600K-$1mm, invested the dough, and then
> bought them all back for $300-$500K in the mid 90’s (last
> trough). Hindsight is always 20-20 and timing (and luck) is
> everything. If I only had a time machine…

Market timing with real estate is usually a bad idea unless the plan going in was to buy, add value and sell due to taxes (both income and property) and the high transaction costs.

If my Dad sold a home he bought in the 70’s for $30K for $500K in 1990 (when most people called the last peak) he would take a huge tax hit paying 28% (the Capital Gains Tax at the Time) of the gain to the feds + state income taxes. He would also lose the low Prop 13 property tax basis. Since values of mid priced homes west of El Camino only dropped about 20%-25% 1990-1995 anyone that sold and bought back in would be way behind…

Simcha,

Sorry to hear that the surgeries for tachycardia did not fix things. I will give two items of advice from my mind-published book "Secrets of Bay Area Real Estate".
1. Atchison Village near Pt. Richmond. These are co-ops, so you need a fair amount to put down, but it does have owner occupancy restrictions (which mean that "people who care"(TM) live there). And check out the prices. Get this $109000 for a Two bedroom one bath two story townhome. Monthly dues are low ($250) and cover just about everything.
2. Rent in Berkeley. Find a rental listing on Craigslist or from some other source. Check with the Rent Control Board to see if an illegal eviction has occurred (ie - LL evicted tenant and said daughter was moving in, yet, no daughter in unit, as the LL is seeking a tenant). Live in the unit at full rent for a year, then petition the Rent Board to lower your rent to the ceiling of the previous tenant. Any additional rent you paid during the previous year (over ceiling) will be credited towards your current rent. Oh, and after five years of living there, your mother will be part of a protected class ( Subsection 13.76.130A.9i) that has protections from eviction.

FormerAptBroker: Comparing your Dad's investment returns with the average real estate investor's returns is like comparing the performance of Microsoft with the average stock.

The Bay Area has outperformed all other regions in the U.S. includings New York City over the last 30 years. If your Dad lived in Texas and bought homes in the 1970s he would not have done as well. He has been luckier than the average investor.

If you plan to buy and hold for the next 30 years, which region would have better returns, the Bay Area or say Dallas, Texas? The returns should include both capital gains and rental income.

We finally arrived at Sedona, AZ. It is *really* nice out here. We may count the open house signs here and see how this part of America is doing. :)

FAB,

Good point --forgot about Prop. 13, the Great Unequalizer. Even assuming RE capital gains had been exempt to $250/500K back then, and the remainder taxed at today's rate, the 1970s tax basis alone is worth a serious chunk of change. (Note to self: (a) choose parents and birth generation more wisely next time, (b) keep working on that time machine.)

Perhaps that’s the case in the fringe neighborhoods, but not in dead-on prime Marin.

Fringe as in "geologically fringe" areas in San Francisco by the waterfront near the GG bridge? ;)