patrick.net

At that point, why have one at all? To put up open house signs? Who's interest would the realtor claim to represent?

What might actually get us somewhere is if a buyer without an agent could get 50% of the commission back from the seller's agent. Then you only have one commission involved, and you'd goose the housing market at the same time. In addition to the 8k tax credit or whatever, people would get an instant 3% CASH BACK!!! THAT'S ALMOST AN FHA DOWNPAYMENT!!!

Seriously though, when I do eventually buy, I wonder if the commission split would actually justify the time/expense of becoming an agent.

Then that would mean there are more messengers that are paid 3% of purchase price that are put out of work.

Funny thought. I've read blogs written by buyer agents all complaining, plotting, and scheming how to make their jobs easier. They were complaining how they think listing agents are not honest in regards to how many offers are on the table and etc. Make them work for their money! In order for buyer agents to be good, they have to have good people skills. Not just know how to fill up a form and have access to the keys and MLS listings.

Quite frankly, the only reason why I want a buyer agent is to open doors for me. Is that worth $15k comission on a house that is $500k?

Vain says

Quite frankly, the only reason why I want a buyer agent is to open doors for me. Is that worth $15k comission on a house that is $500k?

So why not do your own scheduling, and restrict your prospects to for sale by owner? Only when enough homebuyers refuse to use realtors will the MLS monopoly be broken.

Unfortunately, serious buyers who have the confidence to go through the home buying process without a realtor are very rare. Anyone who tries to sell by owner finds that out soon enough.

I sold two SFH in 2004 that I bought in 1996. I tried FSBO for a month and all I got was lookey loos, curious neighbors, and absurd lowballers. This at a time when houses were in demand. I finally listed these houses at 4% (and raised the price to cover that), and they sold within hours of being put on the MLS. Very annoying that the buyers seem to be captives of realtors. I wouldn't mind so much if the commission was 1% like it is in Britain, and not the 3%-6% it is here.

Well MLS has market share because everyone refers to MLS when it comes to looking for houses. I'm indifferent about seller agents. They can be a valuable resource.

However, I disagree with buyer agents. What can the buyer agent really do for you anyways? Their bottom line is to make a sale regardless of what anyone says or some code of ethics because they've got kids to feed. Sure they have knowledge. But all the knowledge is nothing that an average person can't obtain in a few days from doing their own research. The only advantage of a buyer agent is that they can see private information on MLS listings, and that they can open a door for you.

I don't see how a buyer agent can represent you better than yourself. From what I've witnessed, any information that they can get from the listing agent comes directly to me. They are a mere messenger. You know probably just as much as he does. Buyer agents always want you to blindly bid higher just because they don't want to waste efforts writing up the form/contract. I'm sure there will be alot of pissed off buyers if all the bids were revealed publically after a sale.

Also another classic is when I view a property listed at $450k. Buyer agent wants me to offer $550k because of competition. I want to offer about $475k. He makes a quick call to the agent and attempts to get the inside scoop. Listing agent: "Yeah we got 5 offers, all over asking price." He then is discouraged to write an offer up for me. Well the house sells for $460k.

we don't need them.

Tenouncetrout says

we don’t need them.

Yup :)

We don't need agents spamming our email inboxes with properties that you saw on the mlslistings yourself already.

HeadSet says

I sold two SFH in 2004 that I bought in 1996. I tried FSBO for a month and all I got was lookey loos, curious neighbors, and absurd lowballers. This at a time when houses were in demand. I finally listed these houses at 4% (and raised the price to cover that), and they sold within hours of being put on the MLS. Very annoying that the buyers seem to be captives of realtors. I wouldn’t mind so much if the commission was 1% like it is in Britain, and not the 3%-6% it is here.

So where were the multiple offers when you did FSBO? LOL!

Vain - Thanks for sharing yet an another experience of fake bids created by realtors. Enron isnt dead, they just found new jobs in real estate doing the same monkey business.

Wow! I totally did not read Headset's full post!

Sold within hours?

Sounds like your listing agent masterminded everything to get double commission. They might have used their buddy's name as the buyer agent representing his guy. This is what we call an insider deal.

You very well may have missed the offer that went 100k over asking price from someone using a buyer agent that would have came in the next day. The buyer paying 100k over asking price was of course, the works of the buyer agent :)

Vain says

Sounds like your listing agent masterminded everything to get double commission.

Actually, the listing agent didn't do squat, she got 1% just for typing the data into the MLS. The buyers had there own agents that were watching the MLS to grab a listing as it came out. In fact, one of the houses was put in at 5 PM and had three offers by 8 PM. It baffles me why I could not get a serious buyer in such a hot market despite one month of sign in the yard, advertising in the local paper, and in the housing referal database for two local military bases. I blame the mindset that every who is serious about buying a house reflexively calls a realtor.

Now get this, the houses sold for above the loan limits so the buyers had to put cash down. That means they saw at settlement how much of the down payment cash went to the realtors. Perhaps the closing was a wake up call, so maybe next time they will try it sans realtor. Or maybe they will just believe that money that went to the realtor would have gone to the seller anyway.

Zlxr says

I favor having a listing service that homeowners would go to and pay a listing fee. Realtors should be paid more according to how much time they spend rather than just getting 6% or splitting 5 or 6%. If home prices stay flat - no one will be able to sell and still afford a realtor. Things need to change.

How about a flat fee instead of an oligopoly! a small group of people fixing prices of services. How different is that from OPEC?

When I sold FSBO, pre-bubble, I had so many offers I had to narrow it down. Said I'd work with realtors if they added the commission to the price I wanted. As I've said before, ad in the paper worked. Realtors look for fsbo's too.

elliemae says

When I sold FSBO, pre-bubble, I had so many offers I had to narrow it down.

Wow, please send some of that luck my way. I plan to sell my residence next April and move up. I plan FSBO, but I doubt I'll have any luck. And this time, without the hot market, I probably won't get an agent to list at 4% (1% to lister, 3% to buyer agent). I'll likely end up paying 6%.

Even our local FSBO publication went out of business.

thomas.wong1986 says

How about a flat fee instead of an oligopoly! a small group of people fixing prices of services. How different is that from OPEC?

What I would love to see is a flat fee listing service that can be accessed by realtors and non-realtors alike. Then I would like to see a law prohibiting the financing of anything but the actual property. The buyer would thus have to bring cash to pay realtors, settlement costs, and taxes. Such visibility may put a damper on realtor and settlement costs. Of course, requiring 20% would accomplish same, with the added benefit of dampening house prices.

Right now too many buyers think realtor services are "free."

Speaking of Alain Pinel, I've been house shopping for a while. My old realtor called me about 3 or 4 times asking me if I want to put in an offer for a home that is listed as Pending. All 3 or 4 times were for different properties. There is one thing in common though. The selling agency is Alain Pinel. All of them. Alain Pinel: "$560k and it's yours." The listing was for $499k. It shows that they are willing to screw the guy that is currently in contract.

HeadSet says

elliemae says

When I sold FSBO, pre-bubble, I had so many offers I had to narrow it down.

Wow, please send some of that luck my way. I plan to sell my residence next April and move up. I plan FSBO, but I doubt I’ll have any luck. And this time, without the hot market, I probably won’t get an agent to list at 4% (1% to lister, 3% to buyer agent). I’ll likely end up paying 6%.
Even our local FSBO publication went out of business.

I'd dare say you can sell if you get creative. I did the local newspaper ad. Try local paper ads, ads at grocery stores and other bulletin boards, or try zillow, open house signs, sites like this...

http://www.sanfranfsbo.com/
http://www.insidebayarea.com/real-estate

Hell, create a website and put a creative video on it. Lots of ideas. You can do it!

My partner and I had a "buyer's agent" show us around at some properties; even though that guy had been working full time in the neighborhood for over 20 years it seemed like we knew more about what to look for than he was willing to show.

So we also looked on our own. When we found a place we liked that the agent hadn't shown to us, we decided how much to offer and hired a lawyer who specializes in such matters to represent us and cover our butts in the transaction, we paid her a fee.

sybrib says

My partner and I had a “buyer’s agent” show us around at some properties; even though that guy had been working full time in the neighborhood for over 20 years it seemed like we knew more about what to look for than he was willing to show.
So we also looked on our own. When we found a place we liked that the agent hadn’t shown to us, we decided how much to offer and hired a lawyer who specializes in such matters to represent us and cover our butts in the transaction, we paid her a fee.

It's people like you that ruin it for the realwhores.

sybrib says

it seemed like we knew more about what to look for than he was willing to show.

Therein lies much truth.

http://www.flatfeelisting.com/california.html

I haven't done any research, but I've heard it's possible. Flat fee MLS listing for $299, no realtor involved.

The reason one should consider a buyers agent is because the listing agent works with the seller's bottom line in mind. In this day and age, that bottom line may be to convince the seller to accept a low offer, but even in this market, this is very rare. I am a landlord and required to carry a real estate license to negotiate lease contracts for my employers. I went out and bought my first house and negotiated the 3% due to coop broker into a 1% for closing costs and 2% off the purchase price.

I realized that my market has a huge need for ligitimate buyer's brokers, and I offer all of my clients a buyer's incentive up to 1.5% to use in whatever manner they decide, upon lender's approval and full disclosure to all parties. Realtors in my area add 6% to every transaction, in many instances, these realtors are only interested in inflating the purchase to increase their bottom line. They expect me to bring full price offers to the table and are appalled when I tell them its a take it or leave it offer and if you reject it, we'll move onto the neighborhing property until we find that motivated seller. I'm treated like a lepper for having the audacity to lower my commission rate to get a better deal for my buyers. Its my job to get the best possible deal. And since i don't rely on my commissions to feed my family, its my pleasure to do so and feel good about myself.

If you support a one realtor transaction, you need to remember that the listing agent works for the seller and that means they are obligated to get the best price for the seller. Many buyers don't have the time or the resources to compete with a practicing agent during negotiations.

One thing is for certain, good realtors are far and few between. Many simply inflate purchase prices as their end game.

Okay so a seller agent works for the seller. Fair enough. What can the buyer agent say to the listing agent that I cannot do so myself?

True there are good agents out there. But I'd say > 90% of them are just posers that jumped into the real estate market because it was hot at the time. They are just messengers with a desperate motive of closing the sale so they can get their cut.

I can call the listing agent myself and ask him how many offers are on the table, and just to get a response of multiple offers, and bid an inflated price myself. If anything, the buyer agent is nothing but peer pressure.

They want to be viewed as being hired for their expertise in properties (which they know nothing in regards to building and inspecting), and negotiating skills (which I see no evidence of negotiation).

Why can't I negotiate myself?

I understand it's easy for me to say because I have a contractor father coming to view houses with me. But for the ones that are not as fortunate as me to have someone with a keen eye for a home coming with you, I know your natural instinct is to think that your buyer agent is qualified for that. Think that through hard before you assume your buyer agent is qualified for it. They make a living being a middle man; not estimating repairs and property valuation.