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health care reform a big disappointment?


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2009 Dec 16, 11:43am   4,851 views  23 comments

by mel1474   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/34455097#34455097

It looks like the health care reform did not solve any issues? Democrats really disappointed me ..

#politics

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1   zzyzzx   2009 Dec 28, 3:35am  

Please stop referring to a socialized medicine bill as "reform". If it actually had any reform in it, it would be things like tort reform. The only likeable things about this bill is the provisions for existing conditions and the cross state purchasing ability. All you really would need is for one state to allow the sale of a bare bones policy and anyone else could buy it (and they will).

2   bob2356   2009 Dec 28, 3:50am  

The bill is terrible. The worst of all possible worlds. It certainly doesn't provide socialized anything, except profits for insurers. Don't count on cross state purchasing to survive the final cut by the way. The only thing the bill provides is bragging rights for politicians seeking reelection.

3   zzyzzx   2009 Dec 28, 3:53am  

bob2356 says

Don’t count on cross state purchasing to survive the final cut by the way.

That's probably true. Anything that could potentially reduce the cost of health insurance isn't likely to be in the final bill.

4   Â¥   2009 Dec 28, 4:32am  

I'm disappointed, not in the bill, or Congress, but the American people.

The teabaggers got their protests in, where were the counter-demonstrations for a more robust bill?

I've got excellent coverage, as long as I pay my premiums I guess, and can pay the 15-20% annual rise.

Nation of idiots. My long-term plan is to relocate to BC or teh Nihon. どちでもいいだろう。

5   Done!   2009 Dec 28, 4:54am  

Yeah the nerve of people getting turned off of having a gun held to our goddamn heads and told purchase insurance from a "PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANY" (read "PRIVATE").

It didn't take a damn teabagger to convince me that this bill was a damn sham. And "I" did protest you goddamn Coolaid drinking Obamassmunchers did nothing but defended these frigging crooks you so callously defend.

6   nosf41   2009 Dec 28, 5:02am  

Troy says

I’m disappointed, not in the bill, or Congress, but the American people.
The teabaggers got their protests in, where were the counter-demonstrations for a more robust bill?
I’ve got excellent coverage, as long as I pay my premiums I guess, and can pay the 15-20% annual rise.
Nation of idiots. My long-term plan is to relocate to BC or teh Nihon. どちでもいいだろう。

How is the Hope and Change working for you?

7   tatupu70   2009 Dec 28, 6:18am  

nosf41 says

How is the Hope and Change working for you?

All this has proven is that Change is impossible in Washington right now. Corporate interests run our country and not even the President can change that...

8   Zephyr   2009 Dec 28, 11:34am  

"...and not even the President can change that…"

That's because the President is in on it.

The majority of big business campaign contributions went to Obama, and the democrats. Don't be so naive as to think they will do anything meaningful (beyond sound bites for the sheeple) to hurt their benefactors.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

9   Zephyr   2009 Dec 28, 11:37am  

It is much easier to steal from the average guy because the average guy only listens to the sundbites, and does not examine the details. So health reform will benefit the insurance companies and raise the costs for everyone, while adding very little benefit to all the working people who will pay for it.

10   Bap33   2009 Dec 29, 9:44pm  

yes

11   Liz Pendens   2009 Dec 30, 12:13am  

Good article from the NY Times yesterday. It's not just the gov't and insurance industry complicating things, it's also private business interests creating easy/waiting availability of facilities and services they know insurance will pay for: "build the capacity and it will get used" Then it seems like they really clean up

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/30/business/economy/30leonhardt.html?em

12   Done!   2009 Dec 31, 3:40am  

Mandating an American Citizen to purchase anything from a private business is a Breech of the Contract of the Constitution. It is a breech of trust that all of the greedy pig bastards on the hill violated when they voted for this.

Thankfully there's not one single "Republican" voted for it. SO that is a staunch stark breach of Obama's promise.

It will be just more fodder to get the Republicans in 2010, and a Republican if not Sarah Plalin her self elected. Democrats will be an archaic word for the next 40 years.

For some reason 60% of America has a way shorter memory for bad Republicans than they do bad Democrats and their policies.

This bill stands a snowballs chance in hell still being on the table come January 2012.
But you know what, it doesn't have to. This Bill is only about greedy medical industrial machine picking us up by our heels for a few years, while they shake vigorously to remove all lose change (disposable income) from the middle class and rich. They'll get to make a killing for the next 3 years or so, until the republicans get in office.

13   4X   2009 Dec 31, 4:33am  

Tenouncetrout says

Mandating an American Citizen to purchase anything from a private business is a Breech of the Contract of the Constitution. It is a breech of trust that all of the greedy pig bastards on the hill violated when they voted for this.
Thankfully there’s not one single “Republican” voted for it. SO that is a staunch stark breach of Obama’s promise.
It will be just more fodder to get the Republicans in 2010, and a Republican if not Sarah Plalin her self elected. Democrats will be an archaic word for the next 40 years.
For some reason 60% of America has a way shorter memory for bad Republicans than they do bad Democrats and their policies.
This bill stands a snowballs chance in hell still being on the table come January 2012.
But you know what, it doesn’t have to. This Bill is only about greedy medical industrial machine picking us up by our heels for a few years, while they shake vigorously to remove all lose change (disposable income) from the middle class and rich. They’ll get to make a killing for the next 3 years or so, until the republicans get in office.

You dont know anything about the constitution, your a PERL programmer. Stick to scripting, stop reciting the constitution as if it were a inflexible document and switch over to scripting in JAVA. ;)

14   Â¥   2009 Dec 31, 4:57am  

nosf41 says

How is the Hope and Change working for you?

baby steps, baby steps. If you can't see the immense amount of damage the previous administration and Republican Congress either caused or allowed to happen 2001-2007, well, we have nothing to talk about WRT "change".

Democrats may not be worth spit but with the current system they're the least worse of the two political coalition alternatives. I'm a left-libertarian and wouldn't mind coalitioning with pure libertarians, but unfortunately these libertarians have to coalition with the Palin branch of the right, which I find more than odious.

I am stridently pro-choice, pro-gay, pro-legalization, Eurosocialist in general outlook even though I'd like to think state socialism is unnecessary if all the active rentiers in society were reigned in (if not shot out-of-hand).

This America is not my country, and there's simply too many stupid people for my libertarian preferences to work here. That leaves the Democrats with their attempts at social engineering I guess. The conservative laissez faire agenda is demonstrably broken, one only needs to look back to 2004-2007 (and the late 80s trial-run in the "S&L crisis") to see how unregulated markets tear themselves apart.

Though, sooner or later I may join the Dark Side to get and preserve mine. I vote (D) to help out those behind me, at my personal cost (I am not a woman, gay, a pot smoker, and pretty much have received all the state support I'm going to get). Such generosity is not limitless.

15   Â¥   2009 Dec 31, 5:01am  

thunderlips11 says

They are corrupt.

"They" are "we".

16   Â¥   2009 Dec 31, 5:04am  

thunderlips11 says

and who knows what loopholes are lurking in the fine print.

They'll cover you, but it'll cost you $4,000 a month with a $100,000 annual deductible.

17   Â¥   2009 Dec 31, 5:11am  

Tenouncetrout says

Mandating an American Citizen to purchase anything from a private business is a Breech of the Contract of the Constitution.

This is an interesting argument, but aside from Constitutional concerns, I think mandates are excellent public policy. Vast masses of people either skating on health coverage or being under-insured just, in the end, pushes up rents and land values.

Minarchists and right-libertarians simply fail to account that parasitical rentierism limits liberty just as effectively as government taxation. Most people pay more rent than taxes, and I see these two outgoes in something approaching a zero-sum relationship -- raise taxes, rents go down. Lower taxes, rents go up. This may not be dollar-for-dollar but I think it's pretty close.

It's my thesis that mandates are indirectly paid by landlords (and lower home prices overall).

If you're really het up about gummint requiring you to buy something, you should push for the public option, then the program would strongly resemble Social Security, which hasn't fallen to any Constitutional ity challenges as of yet.

18   Done!   2009 Dec 31, 7:22am  

thunderlips11 says

Tenouncetrout says

Thankfully there’s not one single “Republican” voted for it. SO that is a staunch stark breach of Obama’s promise.

10oz., wait a sec. What party gave the richest segment of society (seniors) free drugs, yet insisted that the government which is going to buy billions of pills each year, will pay full retail price?
What person or organization that buys billions of anything in a year pays anything near full retail price? What country facing trillions in entitlements simply adds more benefits without more funding? Not to be cruel, but why not first protect the health of the people with jobs who have the pay the bills?
A pox on both their houses. The only difference is their wedge issues. They are not incompetent, look at all the clever loopholes they write and how well they mislead and spin. They are corrupt.

Find me a Republican that Voted for it, if you are trying to make "your" case.

Otherwise your telling me, the republicans screwed the deal up royally, then the Democrats unilaterally Okeydoked it on through.

Can you understand why I see no difference in the parties, but the Democrats are dumb as bag of paint stained hammers, at making up excuses though. I'll give them that distinction.

19   inflection point   2010 Jan 1, 12:26pm  

I am with "wish I was lucky" if the current system is broken lets fix it. I am not sure how passing legislation you have not read helps anyone.

20   4X   2010 Jan 1, 3:02pm  

Tenouncetrout says

Yeah the nerve of people getting turned off of having a gun held to our goddamn heads and told purchase insurance from a “PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANY” (read “PRIVATE”).
It didn’t take a damn teabagger to convince me that this bill was a damn sham. And “I” did protest you goddamn Coolaid drinking Obamassmunchers did nothing but defended these frigging crooks you so callously defend.

Place your anger with LIEBERMAN and LOGAN who held out until the benefits for us Americans were removed. As Wendell Potter stated, the healthcare companies targeted these 2 independents who held out until 75% of the the benefits were removed.

21   seaside   2010 Jan 1, 4:48pm  

The bill has been tossed up and down too much.
I have no idea what the bill is about, and I have no way to read multi thousand pages of mumbo jumbos. Someone please sum it up and give me brief explain in plan language please? Or, is there any website that did summarized it for me?
Thanks.

22   Â¥   2010 Jan 1, 7:39pm  

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/24/health.care/index.html

http://www.examiner.com/x-1300-Detroit-National-Politics-Examiner~y2009m12d31-Here-are-some-of-the-major-differences-in-the-health-care-reform-bills

It's a mess, but the hope & change here is starting to move the current screwed up system towards some sort of greater efficiency. If 41% of the Senate and 30% of the population weren't total dickheads we could have a nicer transition; instead, we've just got to slug it out with the conservative dead-enders, like we do with every progressive change.

23   4X   2010 Jan 2, 1:57pm  

Tenouncetrout says

thunderlips11 says


Tenouncetrout says

Thankfully there’s not one single “Republican” voted for it. SO that is a staunch stark breach of Obama’s promise.

10oz., wait a sec. What party gave the richest segment of society (seniors) free drugs, yet insisted that the government which is going to buy billions of pills each year, will pay full retail price?
What person or organization that buys billions of anything in a year pays anything near full retail price? What country facing trillions in entitlements simply adds more benefits without more funding? Not to be cruel, but why not first protect the health of the people with jobs who have the pay the bills?
A pox on both their houses. The only difference is their wedge issues. They are not incompetent, look at all the clever loopholes they write and how well they mislead and spin. They are corrupt.

Find me a Republican that Voted for it, if you are trying to make “your” case.
Otherwise your telling me, the republicans screwed the deal up royally, then the Democrats unilaterally Okeydoked it on through.
Can you understand why I see no difference in the parties, but the Democrats are dumb as bag of paint stained hammers, at making up excuses though. I’ll give them that distinction.

That is exactly what I am saying "10OZ"......Lieberman and Hogan, Logan or whatever the heck his name is held out until DEMS caved on all the good parts of the bill. Now it is just a bunch of fluff.

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