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Which oils to avoid?


               
2023 Jan 21, 7:13pm   44,611 views  344 comments

by Patrick   follow (60)  

I'm increasingly frustrated at the rapeseed oil (euphemistically called "Canola" oil by Canadian producers) and palm kernel oil that seems to be in almost all food. Pretty much everything at Trader Joe's seems to have one or the other. I was even at a Russian shop in Palo Alto today (Samovar, fun place) and found the poppyseed cake my grandmother used to make - except it was with margarine instead of butter, ugh.

Which of them are worth avoiding entirely?

Here are the fats and oils I think are bad:

- margarine (which is just canola and other crap oils hardened to make them stick in your arteries better)
- canola oil
- cottonseed oil (especially bad)
- palm kernel oil

I'm undecided about these:

- soybean oil
- sunflower seed oil
- avocado oil
- coconut oil
- peanut oil

I'm sure these are pretty good for you:

- olive oil
- butter
- lard (yes, I think lard is OK to eat)


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309   HeadSet   2025 May 6, 1:39pm  

Patrick says





You may want to check that. Soybean plants do not have ovaries and cannot make animal estrogen. Plants can produce phytostrogen that can make the body think it has too much estrogen and thus have the opposite effect of estrogen from a BC pill. Even that effect is minor, though.
310   Patrick   2025 May 6, 1:45pm  

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210526/p2a/00m/0sc/014000c


A team of researchers in Japan has succeeded in making catfish all female with a compound found in soybeans -- a development that promises to increase the production efficiency of this and other species whose females are more valuable than males in the food market.

The team, from Kindai University's Aquaculture Research Institute and based at the institute's Shingu Station in Shingu, Wakayama Prefecture, used isoflavone -- a compound found in soybeans similar in effect to female hormones -- to create the all-female groups of catfish. The feat is a Japan first, according to the university.

As female catfish grow faster than males, "by making them all female, production efficiency will rise," commented team leader and aquaculture science associate professor Toshinao Ineno. "This can be applied to other farm-raised fish whose females are more valuable." ...

While 68% of catfish in the ordinary water tank were female, 96% of the catfish kept in the water with genistein at a concentration of 100 micrograms per liter were female. A concentration of 400 micrograms per liter yielded a 100% female group, the same as in the female hormone-treated water group.


OK, so not exactly estrogen, but hat estrogen-like effects.
311   HeadSet   2025 May 6, 2:52pm  

Patrick says

A team of researchers in Japan has succeeded in making catfish all female

That happens naturally with ocean fish around here. Part of nature that fish turn from male to female as they age.
313   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2025 May 18, 10:49am  

HeadSet says


That happens naturally with ocean fish around here. Part of nature that fish turn from male to female as they age.


Happens in my reef tank. You can buy a pair of decent clownfish 'mated' for ~$150. Or you can take the risk and buy two unknowns for around $50 each and wind up with two females that fight each other. Usually the larger fish becomes female if you start out with two males. Mine are black and white (I risked it) and the female has a trace of orange like Nemo on it's lips. Like lipstick haha..
318   HeadSet   2025 Jun 23, 1:24pm  

Patrick says





Kings and Emperors are mentioned also, but not democracy.
319   Patrick   2025 Jun 23, 1:39pm  

Neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution mention democracy either.
320   HeadSet   2025 Jun 23, 3:00pm  

Patrick says

Neither the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution mention democracy either.

You knew what I meant, but I will rephrase:

Kings and Emperors are mentioned also, but not republican government. The point is that not being in the Bible can be a matter of the era it was written rather than any proof of a deity's will. Otherwise, one should only ride on an ass or in a chariot and not in a car.
321   Patrick   2025 Jun 23, 3:33pm  

I know, just having fun.
322   HeadSet   2025 Jun 23, 6:06pm  

Patrick says

I know, just having fun.

Hmm, maybe I can get even by making fun of you in a comic strip.
326   Patrick   2025 Aug 8, 10:45am  

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/greasy-friday-august-8-2025-c-and


The New York Times wheeled out economist Emily Oster to inform America that, while Robert F. Kennedy Jr. might technically be right about chronic disease and our broken food system, he is definitely totally wrong in blaming seed oils. Oster claimed the science pinning obesity and other health problems on omega-6 oils like canola, safflower, and sunflower is “flawed” — just another case of correlation, not causation. (Even more guffaw-producing, she admitted that “better data” might later prove RFK Jr. was right.) The real villain, Emily insisted, isn’t the oil, it’s the deep-fried Oreo it slid in on.

Dr. Oster is obviously a greasy science denier. ...

Seed oils are exactly what they sound like — oils squeezed from the tiny seeds of plants like soybeans, corn, canola, cottonseed, and sunflowers. That all sounds very natural and healthy. ...

The snag is, seeds don’t easily surrender their oil. They greedily prefer to keep it for themselves. So extracting the oils requires an all-out industrial assault: high-pressure mechanical rollers, solvent baths in hexane, repeated heating, chemical refining to strip out unpleasant odors and revolting colors, and finally “deodorizing” to make the end product palatable. By the time the bottle hits the supermarket shelf, it’s been through more processing steps than a gas-station chicken nugget and looks more like industrial waste than anything found in nature.

That’s why critics call them “factory foods.” They’re not pressed like olive oil or churned like butter, they’re manufactured, the byproducts of an industrial chemistry set built to turn valueless agricultural waste into profitable, shelf-stable cooking fat.

Emerging science —the same kind of imperfect-but-actionable evidence Dr. Oster once cheerleaded— has been painting a consistently ugly picture of seed oils. High-omega-6 industrial oils like soybean, canola, safflower, and sunflower aren’t just inert cooking mediums; their polyunsaturated fats oxidize easily under heat and in the body, spawning reactive aldehydes that inflame tissues, damage cell membranes, and scramble mitochondrial function. They skew the body’s omega-6 to omega-3 ratio toward a chronic, low-grade inflammatory state, priming the immune system for misfires and front-loading the metabolism for insulin resistance.

Animal models and controlled feeding studies have linked high seed-oil diets to fatty liver, obesity, impaired satiety signaling, and cardiovascular dysfunction— especially when combined with refined carbs and sedentary living. In other words, they’re not the lone assassin of American health, but they’re definitely in the getaway car.
331   Patrick   2025 Nov 1, 11:04am  


Carnivore Aurelius
@AlpacaAurelius

Wow…turns out seed oils are required for UV
light to cause skin cancer in animals.
Mice fed 20% saturated fat had basically
zero skin cancer....
But when fed 5 to 20% polyunsaturated fat,
they developed lots of tumors.
Stop blaming the sun for what seed oils did

EFFECT OF DIETARY LIPID ON UV LIGHT
CARCINOGENESIS IN THE HAIRLESS MOUSE
VIVIENNE E. REEVE*. MELISSA MATHESON. GAVIN E. GREENOAK.. PAUL J. CANFIELD.
CHRISTA BOEHM-WILCOX and CLIFFORd H. GALLAGHER
Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Sydney, Sydney, N.S.W. Australia
(Received 2 February 1988: accepted 13 June 1988)

Abstract
Isocaloric feeding of diets varying in lipid content to albino hairless mice has shown that
their susceptibility to skin tumorigenesis induced by simulated solar UV light was not affected by the
level of polyunsaturated fat, 5% or 20%. However a qualitative effect of dietary lipid was demon-
strated. Mice fed 20% saturated fat were almost completely protected from UV tumorigenesis when
compared with mice fed 20% polyunsaturated fat. Multiple latent tumours were detected in the
saturated fat-fed mice by subsequent dietary replenishment, suggesting that a requirement for dietary
unsaturated fat exists for the promotion stage of UV- induced skin carcinogenesis.


https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1751-1097.1988.tb02882.x
332   stereotomy   2025 Nov 1, 4:01pm  

This ties in with what Midwestern Doctor talked about. @ Patrick - I know you've read a lot of his stuff; so have I.
333   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2025 Nov 1, 4:03pm  

UV rays damage DNA by cross-linking it. Maybe seed oils amplify this effect but it's an effect nonetheless.
334   stereotomy   2025 Nov 1, 4:24pm  

Saturated fats are much more chemically stable and hence unreactive than unsaturated or polyunsaturated fats. Don't want free radicals from unsaturated fats ravaging your cell structures.
335   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2025 Nov 1, 4:35pm  

I swore off seed oils about 5 years ago and replaced with saturated. I lost a lot of weight. I've heard it takes 7 years to get your omega-6 levels back to normal when you do so. I still eat some mono unsaturated but I don't heat it over 300F if I do and usually just olive oil for salad dressing. Once in a while I still eat crap when I'm at family's or out with friends because I'm not that guy who complains about food. I will mention it though so hopefully others can learn but I don't belabor the point because most really don't want to hear it. I dropped transfats maybe 30 years ago as much as possible.
336   stereotomy   2025 Nov 1, 7:34pm  

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

I swore off seed oils about 5 years ago and replaced with saturated. I lost a lot of weight. I've heard it takes 7 years to get your omega-6 levels back to normal when you do so. I still eat some mono unsaturated but I don't heat it over 300F if I do and usually just olive oil for salad dressing. Once in a while I still eat crap when I'm at family's or out with friends because I'm not that guy who complains about food. I will mention it though so hopefully others can learn but I don't belabor the point because most really don't want to hear it. I dropped transfats maybe 30 years ago as much as possible.

Same here, except for about 20 years. 100% gras fed red meat (like our ancestors ate) is the shit. When I first started buying it in 2010 it was $7 a pound for 80% ground beef. Now it's $9.30 a pound, but considering feedlot meat went up a lot more just goes to show that finding sustainable family farms and building long term relationships pays dividends.
337   mell   2025 Nov 2, 9:52am  

Haven't seen any study which links moderate seed oil consumption to dangerous inflammation. Omega 6 is converted to arachidonic acid (but in very small amounts) which helps with exercise and muscle building, reduces inflammation in some ways and increases it in others. While I'm all for a healthy omega 3 to 6 ratio (favoring omega 3s), nobody in this thread has provided any evidence of seed oils to be hazardous. @patrick the study is from 1988 and very poorly worded. According to it a balanced diet of both achieves the same "protective" effects.
338   mell   2025 Nov 2, 9:58am  

For example Walnuts have more Omega 6 than 3 but are very rich in Omega 3s for a plant based food, lower triglycerides and are considered very healthy, containing Vit. E, selenium, polyphenols and more. We don't use seed oils for cooking (rarely for baking) and often buy chips fried with Avocado oil etc. but I don't think you need to completely cut them out.
339   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2025 Nov 2, 10:11am  

Right, I don't think it's possible to cut them out entirely at least not easily and they are required, just not in the crazy amounts they are in processed food today. That lady doc in the video I posted in the other thread even went after Avocado oil claiming toxics forming if you use them to fry things. All I've heard mainstream the last few years is it's a great replacement frying oil.

I too have been buying chips fried in Avocado oil. I found some chips online fried in beef tallow I would have tried out but it's like 75 cents a chip and the reviews complain of open bags, crushed chips etc., so I passed on those.

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