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Can anyone find some Democrats willing to debate on patrick.net?


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2022 Nov 10, 3:00pm   81,847 views  699 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

I would like to have a very polite debate with some Democrats on patrick.net.

By polite, I mean refraining from attacking the person in either direction, but sticking to points of argument instead. So no "You are a (whatever)" will not be allowed. The only appropriate use of "you" will be "Here you said..."

I just ran into an old guy in a cafe who pointed in the newspaper to the governor results in California, which added up to 110%. I said, "well, that's California" and so he accused me of being an "election denier". I asked if he'd seen "2000 Mules" and he said he hadn't "because it's been debunked". Uh, it's the same people who committed the election fraud who are claiming that "2000 Mules" was debunked.

Nor had he heard what was on Hunter's laptop, since he watches only corporate news.

I think I might have made a dent in his wall of denial, and I'd like to try with others.

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550   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 26, 1:55pm  

keeprubbersidedown says

Your not serious right.... Have you heard of Hunter laptop? Burisma? Bobulinski?

If you have facts and evidence that establish a crime, I'd gladly look at it and offer an opinion.

Names of controversies are not facts or crimes.
551   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 26, 1:58pm  

Onvacation says

DeficitHawk says

(besides myself)

Ovacation, I do want an answer to my question. Maybe you can say for yourself, why do you think that so many people fall into one of two tribes with their opinions on these cases? Do you?DeficitHawk says

Lefty tribe members think:
1) Floyd (Jury was RIGHT)
2) Rittenhouse (Jury was WRONG)
3) Arbury (Jury was RIGHT)

Right winger tribe members think:
1) Floyd (Jury was WRONG)
2) Rittenhouse (Jury was RIGHT)
3) Arbury (Jury was WRONG)

There are 3 cases here, with 2 outcomes possible for each... thats 8 possible opinion sets. But the two tribes simplify into only 2 opinion sets.


Do you agree that tribalism is at work here? or maybe you only think tribalism affects others, but certainly not your tribe?
552   mell   2022 Nov 26, 2:06pm  

DeficitHawk says

keeprubbersidedown says


Your not serious right.... Have you heard of Hunter laptop? Burisma? Bobulinski?

If you have facts and evidence that establish a crime, I'd gladly look at it and offer an opinion.

Names of controversies are not facts or crimes.

Those are facts and evidence that cannot get any clearer! Including a star witness who can corroborate and prove everything. But corrupt leftoid government simply isn't prosecuting itself, only its political enemies.
553   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 26, 2:18pm  

mell says

Those are facts and evidence that cannot get any clearer!

Really? He just literally typed "Burisma". That's not evidence of a crime.

I think the pres has a druggie son... I bet you could find some evidence that his druggie son committed some crimes related to drugs along with other indiscretions. And thats a pretty good reason not to elect his son.

But what is the criminal allegation against the president? Just saying the name of a controversy is not the same thing as providing evidence of a crime. It reminds me of 'Benghazi'... what was the crime there either? Like I said, if you show me evidence of a crime, I'll look at it and give you my opinion. But don't just handwave and say the names of controversies.
554   richwicks   2022 Nov 26, 2:41pm  

DeficitHawk says


But what is the criminal allegation against the president?


Joe Biden is on video stating he would with-hold funds from Ukraine unless Victor Solkin, who was investigating Burisma, who his son was on the BOD of Burisma of, was fired.

Why?

Trump went through an impeachment for ASKING about that.

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG0nAT9xOHk

It's right in front of you, but our "news" media ignores it. This is because our "news" media is propaganda. We don't have a free press.

The allegation is that his crack head fuck up son was on the BOD of Burisma, in order to funnel funds to Biden, that his crackhead fuck son was just a conduit for bribes, which seems quite probable given that a CRACKHEAD that had no fucking experience in energy was "working" for Burisma after the United States overthrew Ukraine in 2014.

But investigations into this, leads to impeachment of our president. Can't talk about it, and our "news" won't mention it.
555   Onvacation   2022 Nov 26, 4:38pm  

DeficitHawk says

why do you think that so many people fall into one of two tribes with their opinions on these cases?

Why do you want to classify people? And why don't you think you fit in either of your categories?

Like I said before, I don't think any of those three cases should have went to trial.

You have layed out the basis of your philosophy with your "people fall into one of two tribes" statement.

I am neither lefty or right wing. Just like you.

I reject the premise of your question.
556   Onvacation   2022 Nov 26, 4:40pm  

DeficitHawk says

It reminds me of 'Benghazi'

Did you vote for Hillary?
557   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 26, 6:05pm  

Onvacation says

Did you vote for Hillary?

Yes.

I'm not sure we've been introduced. I'm the democrat referenced in the thread title, here willing to debate. I have voted for the democratic presidential candidate in every contest since (and including) Al Gore.
558   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 26, 6:09pm  

In truth, I am a moderate democrat, I tend to vote democrat but will split tickets. I have voted for democrats for president in all recent elections, but that is not true for all state and local elections. I am not registered with either party. I would consider voting for a moderate republican presidential candidate, but have never done so.
559   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 26, 6:35pm  

cisTits says


Bullshit. THAT was the reason they gave.

They passed a law allowing mail in ballots with republican majority.... then they had an election with mail in ballots... no one complained. Then they had a second election, where the republicans didnt like the outcome... then and only then did the republicans come an challenge the law that they had passed themselves, and requested to THROW OUT THE ELCTION RESULT where they had lost as a remedy!

Its outrageous! The court, rightfully, said 'Piss off'.

They were only challenging the law and asking for this remedy because they lost the election. The 'timing' is referring to this prejudicial timing of bringing the case only after the election is lost, with an ask to overturn the election. Its the legal principle of laches... You cant wait for the outcome of the election, and then if you lose challenge the principles of the election and ask to alter the result! The intentionally delayed timing of the motion makes it clear they are trying to manipulate the process to achieve a preferred outcome of the election. They were rightfully called out on this, and the case was thrown out WITH PREJUDICE . (I.e. court really was offended that the case was brought, and gave them an extra FU preventing them from trying to bring another case like it)

Court was right here. US supreme court also declined to intervene or overturn, rightfully.
560   keeprubbersidedown   2022 Nov 27, 5:23am  

DeficitHawk says

mell says


Those are facts and evidence that cannot get any clearer!

Really? He just literally typed "Burisma". That's not evidence of a crime.

I think the pres has a druggie son... I bet you could find some evidence that his druggie son committed some crimes related to drugs along with other indiscretions. And thats a pretty good reason not to elect his son.

But what is the criminal allegation against the president? Just saying the name of a controversy is not the same thing as providing evidence of a crime. It reminds me of 'Benghazi'... what was the crime there either? Like I said, if you show me evidence of a crime, I'll look at it and give you my opinion. But don't just handwave and say the names of controversies.


You really can’t be serious. In Benghazi people died number 1 and govt incompetence had a lot to do with it.

There is plenty of evidence which you brushed aside as controversies like “Benghazi”…. Let me ask you, should house republicans investigate Joe Biden and his crooked dealings?
561   WookieMan   2022 Nov 27, 6:23am  

DeficitHawk says

In truth, I am a moderate democrat

So why didn't you vote for Trump? His policies were left of center generally. Don't say it was because his personality. Everything he did for the most part made Democrats lives better while they bitched about it the whole way.

Hilary only won the popular (which doesn't matter) because of CA, NY and IL. She would have started a new war. She would have shoved green BS down our throats. Would have appointed crazy people to SCOTUS that were qualifies based on their skin color and not merit just to check a box that she's better Democrat. I voted for Obama in '08 (McCain was a loser). Anyone that witnessed those 4 years should NEVER have voted for him again. Hurts to say, but Romney would have been better in '12. It took all of two years for Trump to amp up Obama's shit economy of 8 years. Biden has destroyed it and more in even faster time.

Also your vote locally doesn't matter to me. I likely don't live in your state so who cares? Local and state elections tend to be less partisan, they just have to pick a party as independents and other parties just don't get the attention on the ballot. So voting a straight D or R ballot wouldn't make sense anyway.
562   Onvacation   2022 Nov 27, 9:32am  

DeficitHawk says

Like I said, if you show me evidence of a crime, I'll look at it and give you my opinion. But don't just handwave and say the names of controversies.

OK
The Hunter laptop shows evidence that Hunter was trading on his fathers name and Joe, the big guy, was getting a cut of the action.

What do you think about that?
563   richwicks   2022 Nov 27, 10:54am  

Onvacation says

DeficitHawk says


It reminds me of 'Benghazi'

Did you vote for Hillary?


You voted for a woman that is most responsible for returning slavery to Libya.

Either you are profoundly ignorant, or you have very low morality.
564   Onvacation   2022 Nov 27, 10:58am  

richwicks says

Either you are profoundly ignorant, or you have very low morality.

Stupid people are offended at being called ignorant.

But DeficitHawk is not stupid.

It is sad that we fought Ho Chi Minh and Muammar Gaddafi. The world would be a better place had we never.
565   richwicks   2022 Nov 27, 11:06am  

DeficitHawk says

They passed a law allowing mail in ballots with republican majority.... then they had an election with mail in ballots... no one complained.


What state is this? What LAW is this? Name the bill. I think you're full of it.
566   Undoctored   2022 Nov 27, 12:16pm  

richwicks says

What state is this? What LAW is this? Name the bill.


Pennsylvania Act 77, passed in 2019. Details here:

https://thisislowermerion.com/11-pa-republicans-who-voted-for-act-77-have-filed-suit-claiming-it-violates-state-constitution/


When ACT 77 passed in 2019, it was the result of a compromise between Republicans and Democrats. In addition to enabling “No-Fault” Mail-in voting in Pennsylvania (what Democrats got in the compromise), ACT 77 also did away with straight-party voting (what Republicans got in the compromise).


Clever! The Republicans tricked the Democrats into voting for their ticket-splitting bill by sweetening it with an unconstitutional provision that the Democrats liked. Tricky I say but not at all hypocritical when they tried to invalidate that provision. They always opposed no-excuse mail-in ballots.
567   richwicks   2022 Nov 27, 1:08pm  

Undoctored says

richwicks says


What state is this? What LAW is this? Name the bill.


Pennsylvania Act 77, passed in 2019. Details here:

https://thisislowermerion.com/11-pa-republicans-who-voted-for-act-77-have-filed-suit-claiming-it-violates-state-constitution/




Help me find the law:

https://thisislowermerion.com/11-pa-republicans-who-voted-for-act-77-have-filed-suit-claiming-it-violates-state-constitution/

I don't care what other people say about something. I need to read the law itself and see who voted how. Where is that?
568   Undoctored   2022 Nov 27, 1:21pm  

Here’s more on the subject. The law wasn’t really unconstitutional, it’s more that certain governmental agents acted unconstitutionally in its name, says Republican Senator Mastriano, who voted for it.

https://fcfreepresspa.com/how-pennsylvania-democrats-hijacked-act-77/

When the Senate passed Act 77, critical election security safeguards were in place to prevent mass fraud. All mail-in ballots were to be signature verified and turned in by Election Day to count. “Defective” absentee mail-in ballots were not to be counted and poll watchers were expected to be permitted to observe the counting of all mail-in ballots at every location.

However, using the pretext of COVID, Pennsylvania Democrats made their move to hijack Act 77 and transform it into something NO Republican voted for.

The Democrat majority Supreme Court, Governor Wolf, and Wolf’s disgraced Secretary of State Boockvar unconstitutionally rewrote Act 77.
570   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 27, 8:54pm  

cisTits says


Timing thing was 100% procedural, too. Always is.

OK, I'll agree not to get into a semantics debate over whether the case should be considered procedural or sustantive. We have a different opinion on this, but in the end it is a semantics debate and doesn't matter.

The point is, either way, the plaintiffs don't get to throw out the ballots or overthrow the election as a remedy. They have no legal right to do so. So, no matter what some future determination on constitutionality of no excuse absentee ballots, the ballots cast for the two elections where they were used must be counted and the election results stand.

That is what the supreme court said. And it should surprise no reasonable person that they did!
571   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 27, 8:56pm  

Onvacation says

The Hunter laptop shows evidence that Hunter was trading on his fathers name and Joe, the big guy, was getting a cut of the action.

I am not up to speed, so I have to ask you to do the work here. Please link the specific data/facts/evidence, and the specific crime alleged.
572   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 27, 9:06pm  

keeprubbersidedown says

You really can’t be serious. In Benghazi people died number 1 and govt incompetence had a lot to do with it.

Oh yes, certainly people died. Questioning whether the security detail was appropriate or not is totally valid. If you think people were making bad judgements about how to run security, that's a good reason to want someone else to be making those decisions. of course hindsight is 20/20, and decisions reviewed in light of bad outcomes can always be cast as bad decisions even if the information available at the time may be more grey.

BUT, the discussion around Benghazi was NOT about questioning judgement on security details, who made those decisions, what information was available, etc.... it was an accusation and conspiracy that a crime had been committed.... "Lock Her Up", etc.

But bad judgement, even incompetence, is not a crime! we would have LOTS of locked up representatives if it was! Nor is it clear to me who made those decisions, how, and if they were good or bad decisions given the information they had at the time (not the hindsight information).

So, again, I AM serious. What is the crime that was alleged that led to "Lock Her Up?"
573   WookieMan   2022 Nov 28, 3:26am  

DeficitHawk says

BUT, the discussion around Benghazi was NOT about questioning judgement on security details, who made those decisions, what information was available, etc.... it was an accusation and conspiracy that a crime had been committed.... "Lock Her Up", etc.

They lied to the American public and the families of those that died after the fact when they knew what was happening the whole time. So no, hindsight is not 20/20, they knew it in the moment. It's involuntary manslaughter all day.

I just don't know if that charge applies to our diplomats overseas dying, but at bare minimum she should have been fired. Another failure by Obama. You cannot deny that Clinton was never held accountable for something she was overseeing in the case of Benghazi. It was her fault and her fault alone. She had maybe 15-20 Ambassadors in harms way around the globe at any time, and the rest were it countries considered safe. She dropped the ball on that and proceeded to lie about what happened, yet kept her job.

Lock her up might be hyperbolic, but to some extent it's true, she probably should have been charged at least. A firing would have confirmed that, and Obama knew she was going to run. So nothing came of it beside a few hearings in Congress which is basically a 8 year olds pillow fight at a sleep over.
574   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Nov 28, 5:53am  

DeficitHawk says

But bad judgement, even incompetence, is not a crime!


dude they cover up every single thing with incompetence because its not illegal. those people aren’t stupid. ive seen that excuse every year now.

they even outright lied, “it was a video that sent muslims into riot”… which we found out was pure made up bullshit for the gullible.
575   Onvacation   2022 Nov 28, 6:03am  

DeficitHawk says

I am not up to speed

A lot of people are willfully ignorant about Hunter's laptop and the Biden family corruption. You should look it up, if you actually care about America.
576   BayArea   2022 Nov 28, 6:19am  

It’s remarkable how they went from

a.) if you take this vaccine, you will not get the disease

TO

b.) I contracted covid, my heart stopped and I’ve had multiple surgeries. However, I’m thankful for all the many vaccines because it would have been much worse if I was unvaccinated

Hey, wake up dummy!
577   keeprubbersidedown   2022 Nov 28, 7:08pm  

DeficitHawk says


keeprubbersidedown says


You really can’t be serious. In Benghazi people died number 1 and govt incompetence had a lot to do with it.

Oh yes, certainly people died. Questioning whether the security detail was appropriate or not is totally valid. If you think people were making bad judgements about how to run security, that's a good reason to want someone else to be making those decisions. of course hindsight is 20/20, and decisions reviewed in light of bad outcomes can always be cast as bad decisions even if the information available at the time may be more grey.

BUT, the discussion around Benghazi was NOT about questioning judgement on security details, who made those decisions, what information was available, etc.... it was an accusation and conspiracy that a crime had been committed.... "Lock Her Up", etc.

But bad judgement, even incompetence, is not a crime! w...



Yea. Your not serious. Maybe a troll idk. Good Luck

Benghazi and lock her up while intertwined is seperate.
578   richwicks   2022 Nov 28, 7:15pm  

DeficitHawk says

So, again, I AM serious. What is the crime that was alleged that led to "Lock Her Up?"


Clinton destroyed evidence while she was under subpoena.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/from-fbi-fragments-a-question-did-team-clinton-destroy-evidence-under-subpoena

This is relation to her private server, which contained classified material on a computer that was KNOWN to have been broken into. Why did she do this? We'll never know, because she wiped the server. We know SOME of the information that was on it, because she was using GOOGLE for email.

It APPEARS she was selling information and using that server that was "accidentally" infiltrated. That's what it appears, but she destroyed evidence, and nothing happened.
579   richwicks   2022 Nov 28, 7:18pm  

keeprubbersidedown says

Yea. Your not serious. Maybe a troll idk. Good Luck


Consider this - DeficitHawk is so incredibly misinformed, he REALLY doesn't have any idea what Clinton did. He's really THAT oblivious.

NPC's are a real thing.
580   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 28, 9:30pm  

Onvacation says

. You should look it up, if you actually care about America.

Well, I DO care about America. And I DID look it up.

I think the main objection is about the VP's son, who is essentially a grade-A f-up getting a high paying gig on the board of a company due to his family connections. I am not really in a position to gauge Hunter's professional skills, but he does seem to be a bit of a druggie and not the most intelligent person, so it seems pretty reasonable to conclude that he got hired for this job because of his family name rather than his talent. Likely in hopes of access to the VP.

I think it is dirty, and unethical to profit off of your political/family connections like this... but I also think if you checked up on the employment status of the children of most senators and high profile politicians, you'd probably find many of them slipped into jobs that exceed their talent with some implication that access to important people was in play. So while I'm unimpressed by this, I'm also not that surprised or outraged. Nor do I think this behavior is unique to the Bidens. The Trumps also intermingled political and business life in unethical ways (such as hosting dignitaries at Trump owned hotels for high fees), but that wasnt the primary reason I have a problem with Trump.

What I did NOT see, was any specific evidence of a crime. Actually besides evidence, I didn't really see any allegation of a specific crime, except the allegation of tax evasion. If Hunter didn't pay his taxes, he should get the book thrown at him, as should all the other tax cheats.
581   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 28, 9:36pm  

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

dude they cover up every single thing with incompetence because its not illegal. those people aren’t stupid. ive seen that excuse every year now.

I guess I just dont understand what crime you think was committed...

Do you think the secretary of state took some actions intentionally to cause American diplomats to get killed?
582   richwicks   2022 Nov 28, 9:41pm  

DeficitHawk says

I am not really in a position to gauge Hunter's professional skills, but he does seem to be a bit of a druggie and not the most intelligent person, so it seems pretty reasonable to conclude that he got hired for this job because of his family name rather than his talent. Likely in hopes of access to the VP.


And IF this is the case, he was acting as a conduit for bribes, wasn't he, and Joe Biden was part of that, wasn't he?

Further evidence of this is that Joe Biden threatened to with hold 1 billion dollars in aid (bribes) to Ukraine if Victor Shokin, an investigator into corporate corruption, wasn't fired, and he was fired, and Burisma was on his target list.

We could find out, if this were the case, IF the government would investigate it, but they won't. In fact, they purposely bury evidence, like Hunter Biden's laptop, which has been available to access online for over 2 years, which people have (at risk to themselves) investigated and reported on, which is ignored.
583   Onvacation   2022 Nov 28, 10:12pm  

DeficitHawk says

The Trumps also intermingled political and business life in unethical ways (such as hosting dignitaries at Trump owned hotels for high fees), but that wasnt the primary reason I have a problem with Trump.

Do you think the Trump family corruption is worse than the Biden family corruption?
584   Onvacation   2022 Nov 28, 10:13pm  

DeficitHawk says

that wasnt the primary reason I have a problem with Trump.

What is your primary problem with Trump? Was it the pussy grabbing?

I bet it was the pussy grabbing.
585   richwicks   2022 Nov 28, 10:15pm  

Onvacation says

DeficitHawk says


that wasnt the primary reason I have a problem with Trump.

What is your primary problem with Trump? Was it the pussy grabbing?

I bet it was the pussy grabbing.


I bet it was his awful haircut, and he wouldn't start a new stupid war. Can't have a US prezident that won't lie us into another goddamned fucking worthless war.
586   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 29, 6:29am  

Onvacation says

Do you think the Trump family corruption is worse than the Biden family corruption?

I dont have much visibility into either family's corruption honestly. Trumps are richer, and the businesses have some history of opportunistic bankruptcy, so I would expect there to be some skeletons in the closet. Certainly some people who felt ripped off...Maybe he's a tax cheat... Hosting foreign government officials at his own profit is unethical too.. But corruption is not the problem I have with Trump as a politician.

Onvacation says

Was it the pussy grabbing?

I bet it was the pussy grabbing.

Yes, it was the pussy grabbing.

Wait, no, it wasn't the pussy grabbing.

Truthfully, I like leaders who seek to find commonality and lead rational debate rather than driving wedge issues for political advantage. Hillary and Biden were both guilty of this to some extent (I think Hillary more than Biden)... But Trump took it to a new level, and introduced a style of politics I find revolting. Birtherism for example. Its shameful behavior, and it doesnt create a vision of a country I want to be building.

The last politician I can honestly say I voted FOR was Obama. Hillary and Biden (both of whom had baggage and were uninspiring candidates), I was just voting AGAINST Trump because I don't like his wedge issue rhetorical style of politics. His refusal to concede the election he lost is truly a final straw with me.. I would never support Trump for any public office after that.

Honestly, I would prefer if neither Trump nor Biden ran for office again. I think its time for a younger generation with less baggage. If Trump/Biden drop out... I think the overall field of Republican candidates looks stronger than the field of democrat candidates at the moment but things can change, we will see.

If Trump runs, Biden will probably feel compelled to run because he's the only person who's beat Trump.
587   Tenpoundbass   2022 Nov 29, 6:34am  

Funny thing about your request Patrick, Kari Lake had the same request and got no takers.
588   RayAmerica   2022 Nov 29, 7:30am  

Early on, I recall seeing videos on Youtube depicting people that were purported to have contracted COVID in China, literally collapsing dead on the sidewalk. (I immediately asked the question; why aren't we seeing this anywhere else?)

Recall too the 'refrigerator trucks' lining up to store the dead?

Recall the 'long lines' forming outside hospitals that the media were reporting, but citizen journalists proved to be false?

On a global basis, FEAR was artificially created in order to get people to take the EXPERIMENTAL 'vaccine.' The 'vaccine' IS the end game.

Fear is a huge motivating factor because it appeals to the emotions, which almost always outweighs analytical thinking.

What's next? FEMA camps for the unvaccinated? Re-education camps?
589   DeficitHawk   2022 Nov 29, 7:59am  

RayAmerica says

FEMA camps for the unvaccinated? Re-education camps?

Good suggestion. I'll pass that one up the chain.

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