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How much is the new million?

By Tenpoundbass follow Tenpoundbass   2021 Aug 3, 7:32pm 670 views   67 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share      


I remember as a kid throughout my teens and tweens, a million dollars was enough to make someone set for life. If they didn't try to live like a millionaire and lived frugally comfortable. I don't think 1 million dollars would go very far today. For starters we don't have the interest earning what it once would. So it's not like you can take 1 million and put it in the bank and get a return, that could be deemed as any suitable income. Let alone grow the nest egg. So without having a specific business plan with 1 million to convert it into an investment that will produce income. 1 million would be gone in less than 5 years, unless you have the kind of strict discipline, it takes to spend money from a sock under your mattress.

It's hard to say what the new million is, until you put it in terms, "How much would it take to corrupt a high official?". Like all of the officials it took to sell the Corona Virus hoax, and the Election steal. Then you can start to fathom all of the millions that were donated to the 2020 election and all of the millions the US pays the CDC to implement their policy.
I think the magic number is 3 million. 1 billion dollars will buy 300 officials to go along with any NWO bullshit you throw their way. 300 million will buy you 100 officials spread throughout 6 cities in the United States. That will make sure no anomaly is formally investigated, and will be the public spokes person the complicit MSM cites as the official with the truth.

So when Mike Bloomberg puts on a show Presidential election even though he's polling at 2%, don't laugh at him for dumping 100 million in a market every other week of the billion he pledged for his election campaign effort. He was never running to win the election, he was laying the foundation for the Election night steal. He was stuffing the pay envelopes, and getting them ready for Dude that does the thing.

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28   Dholliday126   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 8:09am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If you talking about daddy warbucks fuck you 1 million in 1920, based on the inflation calculator that is 14 million in today's dollars. But since government underreports inflation, you're probably really talking about 20-30 million.

Also, let's not conflate net worth and cash. If you're talking about a normal retirement with no worries, I would say networth of 5 - 10 million based on your monthly spending. A 2 million house paid off and 3 million in the bank "safely" yielding 3% in muni's would be OK. But 100K a year goes fast, so I would say paid off house and 5 million in the bank @ 3%, $150,000/yr cash flow would be considered "rich".

At 10% inflation a year, those amounts double every 7 years.
29   HeadSet   ignore (3)   2021 Aug 4, 8:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
But we're about 11 years from booting them out of the house. And they WILL be booted and go become actual men.

Are you going to cover the kid's college? My one child will finish next year, and the cost to me will be around $120k. I started putting money away for her college from when she was born. When she was in High School, pricing colleges looked like $80k would do it. But all that easy loan nonsense ran the prices up to that $120k. I suspect the price will be even higher by the time your kids are old enough.
30   WookieMan   ignore (6)   2021 Aug 4, 8:31am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
WookieMan says
But we're about 11 years from booting them out of the house. And they WILL be booted and go become actual men.

Are you going to cover the kid's college? My one child will finish next year, and the cost to me will be around $120k. I started putting money away for her college from when she was born. When she was in High School, pricing colleges looked like $80k would do it. But all that easy loan nonsense ran the prices up to that $120k. I suspect the price will be even higher by the time your kids are old enough.

Don't think they'll go to college. At least I'm not promoting it. And if they want to, go ahead, get loans. They'd technically be adults and I hope to raise them well enough for them to figure it out. I'm not giving some state uni my fucking money for a trash degree in 90% of the cases. Remember, professors are people that failed to succeed in the thing they're teaching, outside of those for which that was the goal to teach.

I was a country club brat. Besides attorneys and docs, pretty much 70-80% of members weren't college educated. It's all about who you know in the game of life and income. Everyone thinks my wife is a public works engineer (roads, bridges, etc.) She's not. She studied marketing. It got her in the door, but it was completely useless. Waste of money. Mine was a waste of money.

Probably a topic for another thread, but I see almost zero value on college degrees outside of STEM. My uncle can barely read. Not a joke. Built a house for $7m in Desert Mountain, AZ (Scottsdale) that's probably worth $15-20M now. Collects $100k/mo from his properties he owns. He's a book smarts dumb ass if that makes sense. But he's banked more than 99.8% of this country that thinks college will make you money.

He's not raising his adult kids well now, as he owns all their houses outright. So they've never had adversity or worry about money their entire life. Hence why I'm not paying for college. I'm not knocking the decision to do so for those that do, I just have seen the other end of it is all. As a parent I'm not obligated to send and pay for it. If they want it, go get it. I'm confused why it became normal for parents to pay for college. I had to and so did my wife.
31   krc   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 9:51am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Interesting comments on college. One kid is not a student (will not bother doing anything outside of what he likes, and remote learning was a disaster - no accountability) but loves programming ever since he was in grade school. He worked the past year for a couple of different small programming companies (50-70 staff) and they want him to go work full time for them and skip college. I am fine with that, but I run a dev team for a very large company and I know that HR would not take a resume from a junior programmer without a CS degree - so to me there are certain jobs that without a degree you get restricted in where you can apply. Sure - 10+ years experience and college doesn't really matter - but that is time wasted in jobs that likely don't pay as well. So he is off to college - with the deal that for classes he doesn't pass then he pays the corresponding tuition. State school - no private.

And, I always required a BS degree for all my kids that went to college - if they wanted our support. And no private schools unless they kicked in $. BS degree at least gets some flexibility for other opportunities. BS has a level of rigor. And look at going overseas. No woke BS diversity classes - just focused on the degree.

As to cost of college - sure - 20 years ago you could indeed work and go to a state college and be fine. That is no longer the case without taking large loans. If you look at tuition even for a state school, and corresponding dorm/housing costs, you can no longer work part time and go to college. Best idea is to go the JC route and live at home for two years - and transfer. Community college is a legit deal, and in CA there are programs that guarantee access to UC if you meet a GPA threshold. JC is affordable while you work.
32   Shaman   ignore (2)   2021 Aug 4, 10:58am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Planning to send my kids to community college for their first two years, regardless. It’s dirt cheap and nobody cares where you did your first few credits. Then transfer them to state university and let them finish a degree there. California still has pretty affordable state university, most of them. Some are stupidly expensive like UCIrvine but no point in going there. I plan to cover these costs for my kids. If they want to go further to professional schools, or get advanced degrees, I can provide free room and board but not much else.
I’ve been saving in a 529 plan for kids college but it won’t ever be enough by itself. It will defray the the out of pocket costs. If they can get an undergraduate degree done without debt, they’ll be at a good starting point for either a career or an advanced degree. Depends on what they want to do.
33   Dholliday126   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 11:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RE: College

Hopefully, the paradigm will change and there will be trade academies, like in Germany, so instead of fleecing young adults, they get a cheap education/training and go straight into the workforce or trade and start earning money.

Instead of 529s, I just gift to my kids Coverdell (college expenses), then UGMA/UTMA(college/down payment/whatever they want). You get a lot more investment choices than 529, i.e. outperform the market. When they turn 18, they will have their own money and they can make an informed decision.
34   krc   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 11:24am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Coverdells are limited to amount you can contribute and have income restrictions for contribution as well.
529 plans vary by state - but there are sites that can guide you into the best plans (i.e. lower fees on funds, etc...).
Coverdells are more flexible for paying for K-12.
35   Dholliday126   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 11:27am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

529, Coverdell, UGMA/UTMA are all subject to the gift tax. You want the most going to UGMA/UTMA because that will give them the best investments options and life options. I like Coverdells because you can outperform 529.


So quick math:
Gift max 15,000
Coverdell - 2,000 max per year
UGMA/UTMA - 13,000 per year

10 years to go till college

Coverdell @ 2,000/yr x 10 years, compounding at 20%/yr = $64,404.67
UGMA/UTMA @ 13,000/yr x 10 years, compounding at 20%/yr = $391,996.76
Total: $456,401.43
36   krc   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 12:12pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

UGMA though have no control over direction of expenditures - right? Once the minor reaches 18, they can do whatever they want. Sure - 529/Coverdells you "can" use it for anything - but the penalties make it prohibitive. Also, gains are UGMA are taxed at the minor's tax bracket IIRC.
37   Dholliday126   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 1:00pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Correct, UGMA control is all up to the recipient, so you better raise good kids ;) The way I figure it, you can teach your kid about investing, spending, and money control early. This is the stuff they never teach in high school. If I can make them financially literate before their 20, that'll be the biggest investment payoff of all.
38   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 4, 1:22pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

As far as I can tell, the 4% number assumes your investments return enough over 4% to deal with inflation. If your portfolio returned 6% in a world of 2% inflation, then 4% was safe to withdraw, as your portfolio value would still increase at the rate of inflation after your withdraw. You could live forever and still not run out of money.

There's also the "rule" that you bond percentage (AAA and AA "safe" bonds) should match your age. i.e.: at age 70, you should be 70% in bonds and the remaining in stocks. As you get older the low-risk-low-return bond yields aren't quite giving you the full 4%+inflation returns needed to live in perpetuity. However, this is balanced by the fact that, as you get older, your remaining life expectancy decreases and so it's OK to start drawing down the principal. When you are older you can safely start drawing down the principal, which means you can seek the safety of bonds.

What has changed in the 30+ years since the popularization of the 4% rule is that AAA and AA-rated bonds aren't paying anything close to what they once did. In fact, these bonds are often not paying even the inflation rate. That probably means you should be budgeting for less than 4% withdraw. How much less? Who knows! But it seems clear the withdraw is closely related to the difference between the AAA-bond rate and the inflation rate, which has gone very very against retirees.
39   HeadSet   ignore (3)   2021 Aug 4, 1:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Dholliday126 says
compounding at 20%/yr

Please share with us how you can get 20% compounded.
40   FarmersWon   ignore (17)   2021 Aug 4, 1:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

https://www.financialsamurai.com/the-average-net-worth-for-the-above-average-person/
I sometimes look at this site. The site always have hilarious commenters who will ask questions like :
"I have $10M in bank and few million in stocks.. Can I retire comfortably?"
.... In the end sense of insecurity is internal. We don't even know if we will survive another day..
Too much worry is not good. Center of the road is always best approach.
41   Dholliday126   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 1:35pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

100% stocks, Growth portfolio. 20%+ if you can trade with margin.
42   FarmersWon   ignore (17)   2021 Aug 4, 1:41pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Wealth is relative. In the end everything is your "arbitration power" over commodities and labor.
Some numbers.. if you are millionaire .. you are just one of 22 million in US.... In they bay area, You are nobody if wealth is only yardstick.

https://www.financialsamurai.com/number-of-millionaires-in-the-world-and-by-country/
According to Credit Suisse, the global number of millionaires expanded by 5.2 million to reach 56.1 million in 2020. That’s a 9.8% increase in the number of millionaires since the pandemic began.

As a result, an adult now needs more than $1 million to belong to the global top 1%. But to be in the top 1% in America, an adult needs to have more than $10 million.

When it comes to wealth, everything is relative. Therefore, let’s take a closer look at the millionaire data by country.
43   clambo   ignore (5)   2021 Aug 4, 1:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

DHolliday, I am 90% stock allocation and retirement age.

The capital appreciation is great lately; since July 2 my accounts are up more than I spend in 2 years.

I’m not using margin to trade yet, but it looks like easy money.

I considered buying AAPL on margin at $123 a few months ago for example.
44   Dholliday126   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 1:56pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If you can take the volatility, stay in stocks until you're dead. Asset allocation of mostly bonds when you retire may feel safe, but inflation will make you a spendthrift old lady clutching your pearls before you know it. The trick has always been holding 100% stock portfolio, 30-40 names, no more than 10% into your most favorite name, go on margin and trade options on that portfolio for income and hedging. Keep 6 months of expenses in the bank, and know the stock stuff is a 3-5 years hold.

Gotta know what you're doing with margin, most retail accounts charge around 7% so it's not cheap, plus you can blow yourself up if a trade goes wrong. If you know what you're doing, just trading options will generate 20% a year in addition to any stock appreciation.
45   Eric Holder   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 2:15pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Dholliday126 says
Gotta know what you're doing with margin, most retail accounts charge around 7% so it's not cheap


Interactive Brokers charge 1.6%.
46   BoomAndBustCycle   ignore (2)   2021 Aug 4, 2:16pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

ChauvinsKnee says
If you follow the 4% rule, $1M gives you $40K per year to live on. Hardly Caligulan splendor. With $3M it goes up to $120K. Not bad, but not something to write home about either


People spend a lot of money to work. During the pandemic we saved so much money not having the usual working and childcare expenses. That’s the nice thing about retirement…. You probably only need half what you earned in your prime working years … no child expenses and no work expenses…you will feel richer. Add on to that no mortgage if you planned well. (Also helps if you raise self sufficient offspring that don’t need financial support later in life)
47   Eric Holder   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 2:20pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

BoomAndBustCycle says
People spend a lot of money to work.


This is true. Even working from home saved us shitload of money: gas, public transportation, office clothes, fancy haircuts, lunches, fancy coffee, etc. Even car insurance premiums have dropped significantly once all cars were declared for "pleasure use only". =))
48   mell   ignore (6)   2021 Aug 4, 2:25pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Eric Holder says
BoomAndBustCycle says
People spend a lot of money to work.


This is true. Even working from home saved us shitload of money: gas, public transportation, office clothes, fancy haircuts, lunches, fancy coffee, etc. Even car insurance premiums have dropped significantly once all cars were declared for "pleasure use only". =))


Yep. And since the woke trannies have turned the workplace into utter shite I have been exclusively working 100% remotely only, starting even before !covid!. And that won't change.
49   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 4, 2:38pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Dholliday126 says
Gotta know what you're doing with margin, most retail accounts charge around 7% so it's not cheap, plus you can blow yourself up if a trade goes wrong. If you know what you're doing, just trading options will generate 20% a year in addition to any stock appreciation.

7% margin interest is a heavy headwind. I would suggest keeping only 100% invested (no margin) and then using margin briefly if you have a sudden expense that crops up before you can liquidate something to pay the expense. But if that's the case, even using margin isn't the best deal; better to get a home equity line of credit and use that at only 4% or 5%. Well, at least margin interest is tax deductible against your investment winnings.

"Gotta know what you're doing" goes 3x for options. I don't see how the average retail investor can compete in the options market if they don't have all the news sources, insider information, massive financial backing, and the ability to front-run everyone else. Options are inherently short-term and extremely volatile; better to treat them as a fun gambling experiment.

That said, I do agree that ignoring the bond market and concentrating on stocks is a good plan, given the yield (or risk) of bonds in the current market.
50   stereotomy   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 2:58pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

clambo says
At risk of boring readers, herewith my arthritis story.

I’m in good shape and healthy. I was very active but cautious using weights, walking for hours and gym several days per week, with a trainer for a year (my vanity project).

The symptoms of arthritis in my hips were suddenly sore groin muscles that did not heal.
The only thing I previously noticed was the lack of ability to reach my feet easily, my range of motion is limited, I thought it was stiff muscles.

I saw the X rays recently and the joints themselves are missing the cartilage. Also, growths of bone are where there should be nothing.

The PT guy can push my leg and he feels the resistance of the joint before I feel pain, it’s not going to fully rotate as a normal joint would.

What helps me is Meloxicam, it reduces the inflammation of my muscles so I feel better.

The joint itself rarely hurts, but the muscles do.

I’m going to have a hip replacement eventually, but I’m in ...


I know that I was developing arthritis in my hands years ago. Then I got into a serious accident which triggered trauma-induced Celiac symptoms. Seriously, I lost 40 pounds in 2 months. No doctor would explain what was happening to me, but eventually, I figured it out. I had to cut out all carbs and sugar, and once this happened, I regained my normal weight. As a bonus, my incipient arthritis symptoms went away - and they stay away to this day - 15 years later.

I had to radically alter my diet to eliminate all corporate frankensteiniamals and at least initially, any gluten-containing foods. Later, after I had largeley healed from my injury, I was able to eat bread and pasta again, but only that which wasn't nuked with extra gluten to make it extra puffy.

You are your own best advocate for you and your family's health. No one else will help you or point you in the right direction. You need to find your own path. I wish you luck and
success in this, for it is a long and difficult path.
51   Patrick   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 4, 3:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Dholliday126 says
trick has always been holding 100% stock portfolio, 30-40 names, no more than 10% into your most favorite name, go on margin and trade options on that portfolio for income and hedging. Keep 6 months of expenses in the bank, and know the stock stuff is a 3-5 years hold.

Gotta know what you're doing with margin, most retail accounts charge around 7% so it's not cheap, plus you can blow yourself up if a trade goes wrong. If you know what you're doing, just trading options will generate 20% a year in addition to any stock appreciation.



Yes, I've read many times that the best long-term strategy historically has been 100% into individual stocks (not mutual funds, which bleed you with fees and have almost always lost against the broader market).

You don't have to be a good "stock picker" for this to work. You just have to buy solid stocks with reasonable p/e ratios and preferably with a dividend too. And don't jump in and out. Just buy and hold.

"The dead are the best investors." Some study showed that people who died and therefore could not make any changes did the best with their portfolios. The time between death and the eventual distribution of their assets can be quite a while.

I'm too worried to trade on margin through. There's a lot of additional risk there, and that 7%.
52   GreaterNYCDude   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 4:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I don't want to draw down in the principal, I want to live off the interest. That is how real wealth is created.

A 6 million nest egg should be enough. A million isn't what it used to be.
53   Dholliday126   ignore (0)   2021 Aug 4, 4:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

SunnyvaleCA says
Dholliday126 says
Gotta know what you're doing with margin, most retail accounts charge around 7% so it's not cheap, plus you can blow yourself up if a trade goes wrong. If you know what you're doing, just trading options will generate 20% a year in addition to any stock appreciation.

7% margin interest is a heavy headwind. I would suggest keeping only 100% invested (no margin) and then using margin briefly if you have a sudden expense that crops up before you can liquidate something to pay the expense. But if that's the case, even using margin isn't the best deal; better to get a home equity line of credit and use that at only 4% or 5%. Well, at least margin interest is tax deductible against your investment winnings.

"Gotta know what you're doing" goes 3x for options. I don't see how the average retail investor can compete in the options market if they don't have all the news sources, i...


I only use margin if I get filled on a stock, and then I'll turn around and reduce it with short term losses. Kind of like a credit card, It's a strategy for leverage plays and pay it off immediately if used....
54   Patrick   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 4, 5:26pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

GreaterNYCDude says
I want to live off the interest.


Interest? I remember that, from long ago...
55   Booger   ignore (7)   2021 Aug 4, 6:50pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I don't have kids and even I don't want to draw down my principal! I'll find some well deserving relatives in Poland to leave it to.
56   Booger   ignore (7)   2021 Aug 4, 6:53pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

stereotomy says
Seriously, I lost 40 pounds in 2 months. No doctor would explain what was happening to me, but eventually, I figured it out. I had to cut out all carbs and sugar, and once this happened, I regained my normal weight.


You gained weight by cutting out carbs and sugar???? Did I somehow misinterpret this???
57   Booger   ignore (7)   2021 Aug 4, 6:54pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Eric Holder says
This is true. Even working from home saved us shitload of money: gas, public transportation, office clothes, fancy haircuts, lunches, fancy coffee, etc. Even car insurance premiums have dropped significantly once all cars were declared for "pleasure use only". =))


Plus you can work naked.
58   Patrick   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 4, 7:06pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

And if you're Jeffrey Toobin you can just pull it out, whack off on camera, and CNN Propganda Inc will have no particular problem with that.
59   MAGA   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 4, 8:20pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I'm a everyday millionaire, and I don't feel particularly rich.
60   Patrick   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 4, 8:23pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

A silver dollar is now worth more than $20.

So to be an old-school millionaire, you need more than $20M.
61   NDrLoR   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 4, 9:16pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
A silver dollar is now worth more than $20
The brilliance of LBJ when he took the silver content out of coins in 1965. Oh, it won't make much difference...
62   just_passing_through   ignore (8)   2021 Aug 4, 10:12pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGA says
I'm a everyday millionaire, and I don't feel particularly rich.


Even in San Antonio?
63   BayArea   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 4, 10:21pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

You can take the year you were a kid, calculate compounded inflation, and figure what the new million is
64   zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2021 Aug 5, 5:11am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

BayArea says
You can take the year you were a kid, calculate compounded inflation, and figure what the new million is


According to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com 1M in 1972, when I was a kid (age 6), is now $6,499,904.31 with a cumulative rate of inflation of 550%
65   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 5, 11:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

GreaterNYCDude says
I don't want to draw down in the principal, I want to live off the interest. That is how real wealth is created.

A 6 million nest egg should be enough. A million isn't what it used to be.
Living off the interest allows inflation to reduce the purchasing power of your principal over time. You need to add some of that interest to your principal so that your principal grows at the rate of inflation.
66   Patrick   ignore (1)   2021 Aug 5, 11:21am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

There is essentially no interest anymore. You cannot get more than half a percent afaict, while inflation is clearly over 4% now.

You're pretty much forced into stocks if you want to live from your money.

Or you could do it with rental property, except that your tenants have been exempted from paying rent indefinitely...
67   zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2021 Aug 5, 11:26am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Or you could do it with rental property, except that your tenants have been exempted from paying rent indefinitely...


It's as if it's intentional... Being a landlord was one of the few remaining income streams available since interest rates and been lowered to zero indefinitely.

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