patrick.net

Hmmm.

NuttBoxer says

But my first thought was, "Don't people mostly use bank and credit cards now?". I guess I'm not the only one who doesn't trust banks with my cash these days..

What would the stimulus checks have to do with it? Shouldn't that make them flush with cash from government printing? Not everyone takes a withdrawal when they get free money. Some let it sit there. Seems fishy.

And yes, always use a credit card in case the situation arises that you don't want to pay it back or there was fraud. Plus points if you pay the balance. You get paid to use credit. Just never pay interest.

i heard that the so-called 'stimulus checks' come with $25,000.00 Federal Withholding Tax in anticipation of Xiden's increased Federal tax proposal, so no wonder nobody can get any money out of their accounts.

Lol if stimulus causes bank run that triggers panic and collapse

The 'stimulus checks' were, after all, a leftover from Trump, so the Dems have to figure out a way to get 20x as much back from the crumbs they distribute. Their motto is 'Breaking Campaign Promises 'R Us".

WookieMan says

What would the stimulus checks have to do with it? Shouldn't that make them flush with cash from government printing? Not everyone takes a withdrawal when they get free money. Some let it sit there. Seems fishy.

Maybe due to deflation? Still reading the book on the Fed, and Griffin's explanation is great. Deflation occurs when people pay off their debts rather than taking new ones. Reason being that in our current system all currency represents debt. So as debts are paid down, amount of currency in circulation shrinks.

But I do think the main reason is, it's likely people are losing trust in government and centralization as a whole, and are anticipating bank holidays in the near future.

NuttBoxer says

But I do think the main reason is, it's likely people are losing trust in government and centralization as a whole, and are anticipating bank holidays in the near future.

Nah, I think HT nailed it.

It's always so nice when the Dems include the moron population in their graft schemes in exchange for votes. Next: withholdings and seizures for 'Sainted Negro Reparations'.

Every good and noble cause deserves a ripoff.

A lot of banks don't hold much cash these days. Doesn't necessarily mean they're underfunded (of course it's possible).

The one disappointment I have with my new credit union is that they don't give out ATM cards anymore, just debit cards.

Which is:

1. not the same thing at all
2. much more dangerous than a credit card

With a debit card, someone can clean out your checking account and you have to fight to get the money back. I saw how this caused major problems for a co-worker, and since then have refused to get any debit card.

But I still have a ATM card from another credit union, so I'm not short of cash.

Patrick says

With a debit card, someone can clean out your checking account and you have to fight to get the money back. I saw how this caused major problems for a co-worker, and since then have refused to get any debit card.

My buddy lost $800 to someone in Brazil on a debit card. I'm 100% credit since he told me that story when we were about 23-24. If you're disciplined and pay the statement balance, you can stick it to the big banks and get rewarded for doing so via points. It's a hobby now. A fun one at that.

Patrick says

With a debit card, someone can clean out your checking account and you have to fight to get the money back.

I have two checking accounts with my CU. One where the paycheck drops to and another - empty - with debit card on it. When I need cash I open the CU's website, make an instant transfer and then withdraw the money via ATM. I opted out of all "payment protection" shit so there is no link between accounts.

Maybe that's a good way to do it.

Can you use a debt card like an ATM card, in a machine?

Patrick says

Can you use a debt card like an ATM card, in a machine?

This is the only way I use it.

Patrick says

With a debit card, someone can clean out your checking account and you have to fight to get the money back. I saw how this caused major problems for a co-worker, and since then have refused to get any debit card.

WookieMan says

My buddy lost $800 to someone in Brazil on a debit card. I'm 100% credit since he told me that story when we were about 23-24. If you're disciplined and pay the statement balance, you can stick it to the big banks and get rewarded for doing so via points. It's a hobby now. A fun one at that.

Unless you follow Regulation E to the letter (certified mail receipt requested - CMRR) you're taking a chance; even then, you have to wait 30 days until the bank completes the "investigation"):

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/rules-policy/regulations/1005/1/

Compared to credit cards, you have a relative fig leaf of protection. Always use credit cards, because the burden of proof (and this is big deal) is on the merchant, not you, for charges.

Exactly.

This guy I worked with was cleaned out and had zero money for rent or food until the next paycheck. He was in serious pain because he had his debit card linked to checking and all his immediate cash in checking.

NuttBoxer says

But I do think the main reason is, it's likely people are losing trust in government and centralization as a whole, and are anticipating bank holidays in the near future.

Why would a bank need to holiday? Constitutionally money must be silver or gold. At the beginning of the depression when banks were getting run, money was silver, gold, and silver and gold certificates. These certificates could be readily exchanged for metal.

In 1933 Roosevelt took the gold, then during Johnson's presidency the silver was removed. When Nixon stopped trading dollars for gold in 1971 our money went full fiat backed by nothing but the good faith, credit, and military of the USA.

We are long disconnected from real constitutional money. The banks may temporarily run out of paper but that's a planning and distribution problem not a problem of the banks running out of paper.

Onvacation says

We are long disconnected from real constitutional money. The banks may temporarily run out of paper but that's a planning and distribution problem not a problem of the banks running out of paper.

That and fewer and fewer people want physical cash at this point. There's no need for the bank or CU to have so much on hand. The uber wealthy will for sure have safes full of it, but it's not that common an occurrence that people go get cash. The Western Union will have more cash than most banks at this point.

I'll keep a couple grand in the cabinet at home, but we never use it. Everything I pay for accepts CC's and the fees are baked in to the price of goods. So I'll take my points and pay it off 25-30 days later. Extremely lucrative if you're disciplined to pay it off monthly.

It's also a violation of TOCs for merchants to give "Cash Discounts". CC companies can and have cut off CC access for vendors who get caught doing so.

Flea Markets and Craigslist, whenever possible.

MisdemeanorRebellionNoCoupForYou says

It's also a violation of TOCs for merchants to give "Cash Discounts". CC companies can and have cut off CC access for vendors who get caught doing so.

I thought that practice was outlawed years ago with the "Durban Amendment." All you have to do to comply with credit card company rules is post prices for cash and credit.

HunterTits says

Only states that pass legal tender laws are forced to do so with silver or gold. not Congress.

There is not enough gold & Silver in the world for monetary needs. It seems to me that governments have to go fiat, but we don't have to give that power to a cabal of private banks.

Onvacation says

When Nixon stopped trading dollars for gold in 1971 our money went full fiat backed by nothing

And we know what happened in that decade. At least Germany got their hyperinflation under control by 1924, our's was still going strong a decade later with people finally just factoring it in in all the decisions they made. Master Card came on in 1978 because it made more sense to buy on credit if you were going to be perpetually bailed out by inflation. Finally, Paul Volcker's double digit interest rates helped kill the monster. It caused the worst recession since the one of 1973-1975.

Today my bank refused to cash out check. Propose deposit only.

HeadSet says

I thought that practice was outlawed years ago with the "Durban Amendment." All you have to do to comply with credit card company rules is post prices for cash and credit.

Interesting - did not know this. Appliance retailers though are still using that as an excuse.

REpro says

Today my bank refused to cash out check. Propose deposit only.

Hmmm.

Patrick says

REpro says

Today my bank refused to cash out check. Propose deposit only.

Hmmm.

Check was from same bank as mine. Not big deal, but enough to get me upset.

mell says

A lot of banks don't hold much cash these days. Doesn't necessarily mean they're underfunded (of course it's possible).

The definition of fiat currency disagrees. And I remember hearing in the past few months the Fed dropped the reserve requirements to practically zero.

Onvacation says

We are long disconnected from real constitutional money. The banks may temporarily run out of paper but that's a planning and distribution problem not a problem of the banks running out of paper.

Fiat currencies are not immune from bank runs, and the system actually encourages the type of instability that creates them. The scenario I'm thinking of is people attempting to take our their cash in time to exchange it for something of actual value as the currency collapses. But an even more common one is the banks not having the cash on hand, worthless as it may be. There is not requirement that a bank can pay all their depositors and creditors at once, and there are none who can.

WookieMan says

That and fewer and fewer people want physical cash at this point.

But if that's true, why did mine run out?

It's definitely not true in most other countries. Chinese and Mexicans are two examples I know personally. People in those countries have never trusted the government, and always hidden assets outside of banks. And I'd say even in this country this was more common in the past, but we seem to have long forgotten the lesson of the Continentals..

HunterTits says

Only states that pass legal tender laws are forced to do so with silver or gold. not Congress.

Many times when people say that constitutional silver and gold is mandated by the US Constitution they quote Article I, Section 10, which reads, “[No state shall] make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts;” In the infancy of the United States, before the constitution was ratified, there were many problems with individual states issuing their own debt. This clause in the US Constitution was meant to legitimize the US Government to foreign lenders by preventing individual states from taking on debt and repaying with fiat currencies.

Whoever wrote this doesn't understand context. The Constitution was written to limit central government power, not expand it. When not specified, that means outside the Feds control, not open game(Article I, Section 1).

Historically there has never been a need for tender laws, except in the case of fractional or fiat currency. You don't have to force people to accept something they know has value.

Onvacation says

There is not enough gold & Silver in the world for monetary needs. It seems to me that governments have to go fiat, but we don't have to give that power to a cabal of private banks.

This is a common myth put out by the bankers. More money does not equal more wealth, it equals more inflation. If not then why not write stimulus checks for a million, and we can all retire!

The historical value of things has changed very little. You can still buy a suit for about the same price that a nice set of clothes cost during the Roman Empire. There's a restaurant in Europe where a good meal is still the same price in gold that it was hundreds of years ago. Gold can and should be diluted in coin form(very soft), and you can make coins in different weights and dimensions. Very little is needed to sustain economic business, and no, it does not require physical exchange for every transaction. The early money-changers issued receipts for the gold stored in their vaults, and the receipts were often exchanged in lieu of redeeming the actual gold.

NuttBoxer says

WookieMan says

That and fewer and fewer people want physical cash at this point.

But if that's true, why did mine run out?

Because of what you quoted. People don't need or want cash. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have cash, just the reality of the situation. There's no point in a local bank holding a couple $100k in cash for the chance that people want it. Less and less people want physical cash. It's just reality.

I'm not saying I like it one way or another, but I think it's more of a logistics thing and they decided that with less demand for physical cash they'd stock less in branches. That would be my guess as to what happened in your situation. I don't think it's an underlying major issue though across all banks or finance.

HunterTits says

That was true in the 19th century as it was now.

And these days they wouldn't even need physical gold reserves. Just monitor the gold price on the commodities markets and adjust the currency supply accordingly.

We still had money(currency backed by something of intrinsic value) during most of the 19th century. The Federal Reserve was established because the Wall Street banks were losing market share, has zero to do with gold/silver not still being viable.

You go ahead and attempt to purchase gold or silver right now at the paper price and let me know how that works out...

NuttBoxer says

Onvacation says

We are long disconnected from real constitutional money. The banks may temporarily run out of paper but that's a planning and distribution problem not a problem of the banks running out of paper.

Fiat currencies are not immune from bank runs, and the system actually encourages the type of instability that creates them. The scenario I'm thinking of is people attempting to take our their cash in time to exchange it for something of actual value as the currency collapses. But an even more common one is the banks not having the cash on hand, worthless as it may be. There is not requirement that a bank can pay all their depositors and creditors at once, and there are none who can.

In 2008, they ran out of digital dollars as there was a run on the entire system. It doesn't even have to be physical paper.

HunterTits says

Onvacation says

There is not enough gold & Silver in the world for monetary needs

For small countries, yes there is. For larger ones, they would need to resort to gold backed currencies like we had before. That was true in the 19th century as it was now.

And these days they wouldn't even need physical gold reserves. Just monitor the gold price on the commodities markets and adjust the currency supply accordingly.

This is why I believe tokenization is ultimately going to reign in the fiat regime. We are quickly building a system where we can use digital tokens actually backed by real assets to transact. The real issue is what happens in between. We have federal and state governments that are so huge that they need the printing presses to keep running. They are going to have to go bankrupt and fire a large percentage of their useless workforce.

WookieMan says

I'm not saying I like it one way or another, but I think it's more of a logistics thing and they decided that with less demand for physical cash they'd stock less in branches. That would be my guess as to what happened in your situation. I don't think it's an underlying major issue though across all banks or finance.

Of course, they didn't have enough cash available, but that doesn't really explain why. I've been making large withdrawals at that branch for months now, and this is the first time they didn't have the money on hand.

NuttBoxer says

Of course, they didn't have enough cash available, but that doesn't really explain why.

This is why it's likely the logistics of keeping cash at a certain branch. Demand ebbs and flows. Your CU likely got large deposits for the "stimulus" but wasn't prepared for people wanting to take cash out.

Sure the amount on an app or printed statement showed you had $X,000,000. That doesn't mean they don't have it, it's just not at that branch. Deposits don't match the cash on hand, especially when you print $1,400 for most humans in the country and try to get it out in cash the next day.

NuttBoxer says

we seem to have long forgotten the lesson of the Continentals..

Or the depression!

I heard some Canadian SJW talking about confiscating all the "pre-loaded" stimulus funds (all of the savings Canadians have accrued the last year because there is nothing to spend it on) and redistribute it more equitably.

HunterTits says

??? Fiat currencies have nothing to do with banking deposits or the ratio of deposits to liabilities.

If a bank holds 100% of all deposits, meaning they actually keep the money you give them until you ask for it, and the money is backed by something of intrinsic value, that is called commodity. If they only keep a fraction of what you give them on hold for you, and loan the rest out, but it is still backed by something of intrinsic value, that is called fractional reserve banking. If they keep nothing of what you deposit on hold for you, and refuse to exchange it for anything of value, that is fiat. As banks can make the most money by issuing loans, fiat naturally encourages a MUCH higher amount of leverage/no reserves, than commodity, or even fractional.

"I deposited my chest of rack rents from Gallicia, 100 pounds of Portuguese Joeys, shipped over the Bay of Biscay and up the Soylent not 6 months ago! Hand over my coins!"
"But sir, won't you take our note? Tis much more convenient and honored all over Eng----"
"Damme you, insolent knave, my Joeys this instant!"
"But sir, 'tis in our City branch"
"Why the hell is it there and not here? Have you no safehouse, man? There are metal bars just behind you! Are you telling me there are not 20 pounds worth of silver or gold coinage in this whole edifice?"
"Uh, uh, it's uh, safer there, Lord Suchensuch. W-w-we have plenty of coinage on hand"
"Then run and get it. I will take Dubloons, Thalers, Franks, Marks, bloody whatever, so long as it comes to 20 pounds of metal!"
****Clerk runs to manager in extreme vexation****