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long term effect on gasoline consumption
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2020 Nov 1, 10:11pm 880 views 16 comments
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1
AD
2020 Nov 1, 10:34pm
AD
2020 Nov 1, 10:34pm
TrumpingTits says
True.
Also, I think that is why Biden wants to subsidize the alternate energy industry to make it competitive against cheap oil and natural gas.
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The stone age did not end because the world ran out of stones, and the oil age will not end because we run out of oil.
True.
Also, I think that is why Biden wants to subsidize the alternate energy industry to make it competitive against cheap oil and natural gas.
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2
SunnyvaleCA
2020 Nov 1, 10:59pm
The countries that would be still living in the iron age (or earlier) if it weren't for oil put much of their windfall surplus into exploding the population. When oil prices crash, since they are already extended fully, they need to make up the difference with selling even more oil (at the lower price). This oil glut further forces prices down. It's an unfortunate "positive" feedback loop.
3
AD
2020 Nov 1, 11:12pm
AD
2020 Nov 1, 11:12pm
SunnyvaleCA says
Good point, as I was thinking about the most hardest hit country which is Venezuela.
I think Saudi Arabia has been modernizing its economy by boosting investments in education, renewable energy, etc.
The Saudis and Russians could agree on making cuts to end the bloodshed. I'm not sure the current political climate would make that at least likely.
Demand could steadily increase as you see just with the TSA daily passenger count steadily rising since April. So the Russians and Saudis could keep production at the same levels while demand rises. That means no $2 per gallon for gasoline but back to +$3 a gallon.
It's an unfortunate "positive" feedback loop.
Good point, as I was thinking about the most hardest hit country which is Venezuela.
I think Saudi Arabia has been modernizing its economy by boosting investments in education, renewable energy, etc.
The Saudis and Russians could agree on making cuts to end the bloodshed. I'm not sure the current political climate would make that at least likely.
Demand could steadily increase as you see just with the TSA daily passenger count steadily rising since April. So the Russians and Saudis could keep production at the same levels while demand rises. That means no $2 per gallon for gasoline but back to +$3 a gallon.
4
zzyzzx
2020 Nov 2, 6:15am
zzyzzx
2020 Nov 2, 6:15am
ad says
This is what I expect to happen. Any long term predictions are just a guess.
Demand could steadily increase
This is what I expect to happen. Any long term predictions are just a guess.
5
AD
2020 Nov 2, 8:01am
AD
2020 Nov 2, 8:01am
Check out the tax that each state charges for a gallon of gasoline: https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2020/
This tax excludes the approximately $0.18 tax per gallon charged by the federal government.
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This tax excludes the approximately $0.18 tax per gallon charged by the federal government.
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6
clambo
2020 Nov 2, 8:01am
I’m a little disappointed that the government didn’t encourage natural gas cars more.
I would have bought one if I could get it filled up in a few more places.
Today in California a Tesla is charged by a natural gas electric power plant anyway.
Someday maybe you can get a device to turn your organic garbage and shit into natural gas.
I’m off the subject.
I would have bought one if I could get it filled up in a few more places.
Today in California a Tesla is charged by a natural gas electric power plant anyway.
Someday maybe you can get a device to turn your organic garbage and shit into natural gas.
I’m off the subject.
7
socal2
2020 Nov 2, 8:35am
clambo says
I think it would be too difficult and expensive to build out brand new infrastructure to get natural gas lines to every home and gas station. Whereas, the electric grid is already built and everyone can plug their cars in at home if they have a garage.
That said, I think we should continue burning the shit out of natural gas to create electricity since it is so plentiful in the US as has less carbon emissions than oil and coal.
Until we get serious about nuclear energy again, we will be burning carbon for quite a while.
I’m a little disappointed that the government didn’t encourage natural gas cars more.
I would have bought one if I could get it filled up in a few more places.
Today in California a Tesla is charged by a natural gas electric power plant anyway.
I think it would be too difficult and expensive to build out brand new infrastructure to get natural gas lines to every home and gas station. Whereas, the electric grid is already built and everyone can plug their cars in at home if they have a garage.
That said, I think we should continue burning the shit out of natural gas to create electricity since it is so plentiful in the US as has less carbon emissions than oil and coal.
Until we get serious about nuclear energy again, we will be burning carbon for quite a while.
8
RWSGFY
2020 Nov 2, 8:42am
RWSGFY
2020 Nov 2, 8:42am
clambo says
They have very short range. Less than many EVs. Honda Civic NGV had less than 150 mile range, iirc. No bueno.
I’m a little disappointed that the government didn’t encourage natural gas cars more
They have very short range. Less than many EVs. Honda Civic NGV had less than 150 mile range, iirc. No bueno.
9
WookieMan
2020 Nov 2, 9:04am
WookieMan
2020 Nov 2, 9:04am
socal2 says
Exactly. Factor in terrain for burying gas lines and it's a non-starter in a lot of areas without massive expense. It's one thing to run a buried line in the fields of IL and or IA. The mountains in CO, CA, MT etc, good luck. That's why most heating appliances besides a grill are electric in those areas. Literally is a top 10 factor I don't move to some of those places. Don't want to be reliant on propane tanks and I hate cooking with electric stove tops.
I think it would be too difficult and expensive to build out brand new infrastructure to get natural gas lines to every home and gas station. Whereas, the electric grid is already built and everyone can plug their cars in at home if they have a garage.
Exactly. Factor in terrain for burying gas lines and it's a non-starter in a lot of areas without massive expense. It's one thing to run a buried line in the fields of IL and or IA. The mountains in CO, CA, MT etc, good luck. That's why most heating appliances besides a grill are electric in those areas. Literally is a top 10 factor I don't move to some of those places. Don't want to be reliant on propane tanks and I hate cooking with electric stove tops.
10
clambo
2020 Nov 2, 9:17am
The houses in N. California towns have natural gas supply.
A 200 mile range is acceptable but not ideal. Recharging a Tesla takes much longer than filling up with natural gas.
I used to calculate my gas mileage in Florida and I averaged about 240 miles per week.
A 200 mile range is acceptable but not ideal. Recharging a Tesla takes much longer than filling up with natural gas.
I used to calculate my gas mileage in Florida and I averaged about 240 miles per week.
11
zzyzzx
2020 Nov 2, 9:41am
zzyzzx
2020 Nov 2, 9:41am
socal2 says
You don't need to actually have a garage to charge a car. Just a charger rated for outdoor use (mostly just an outdoor rated enclosure).
the electric grid is already built and everyone can plug their cars in at home if they have a garage.
You don't need to actually have a garage to charge a car. Just a charger rated for outdoor use (mostly just an outdoor rated enclosure).
12
SunnyvaleCA
2020 Nov 2, 11:25am
ad says
Yeah! California "winning" again! Plus, we have our special California "boutique" blend that simultaneously increases refining costs, limits refinery competition, amplifies any price or supply shocks, and limits the octane to 91. (Theoretically you could get higher octane rating, but, without competition, why bother.)
Check out the tax that each state charges for a gallon of gasoline: https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2020/
This tax excludes the approximately $0.18 tax per gallon charged by the federal government.
Yeah! California "winning" again! Plus, we have our special California "boutique" blend that simultaneously increases refining costs, limits refinery competition, amplifies any price or supply shocks, and limits the octane to 91. (Theoretically you could get higher octane rating, but, without competition, why bother.)
13
socal2
2020 Nov 2, 11:28am
clambo says
Most people drive less than 30 miles a day. So charging at home once or twice a week handles 98% of driver's needs.
The new Tesla superchargers can charge 80% of the battery in 20 minutes and it is getting better all the time. That is almost on par for a gas stop if the person needs to go the bathroom and get something to eat on a road trip.
The houses in N. California towns have natural gas supply.
A 200 mile range is acceptable but not ideal. Recharging a Tesla takes much longer than filling up with natural gas.
I used to calculate my gas mileage in Florida and I averaged about 240 miles per week.
Most people drive less than 30 miles a day. So charging at home once or twice a week handles 98% of driver's needs.
The new Tesla superchargers can charge 80% of the battery in 20 minutes and it is getting better all the time. That is almost on par for a gas stop if the person needs to go the bathroom and get something to eat on a road trip.
14
AD
2020 Nov 2, 1:32pm
AD
2020 Nov 2, 1:32pm
socal2 says
If the range is 450 miles then easily each travel leg before a recharge stop is about 400 miles. This is practical in a sense you could travel 800 miles in one day averaging about 65 miles per hour.
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The new Tesla superchargers can charge 80% of the battery in 20 minutes and it is getting better all the time.
If the range is 450 miles then easily each travel leg before a recharge stop is about 400 miles. This is practical in a sense you could travel 800 miles in one day averaging about 65 miles per hour.
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15
Eric Holder
2020 Nov 2, 1:35pm
Eric Holder
2020 Nov 2, 1:35pm
clambo says
I don't think any kind of NG fueling is allowed in residential areas.
The houses in N. California towns have natural gas supply.
I don't think any kind of NG fueling is allowed in residential areas.
16
socal2
2020 Nov 2, 1:54pm
Eric Holder says
Yeah - no thanks. I would rather just plug in my car.
www.youtube.com/embed/lO055g6JqLs&t=119s
clambo saysThe houses in N. California towns have natural gas supply.
I don't think any kind of NG fueling is allowed in residential areas.
Yeah - no thanks. I would rather just plug in my car.
www.youtube.com/embed/lO055g6JqLs&t=119s
Look at how gas and jetliner fuel consumption has dropped. Granted, TSA daily passenger count dropped to 5% of 2019 levels in April 2020, and has steadily increased to around 35%.
I think work from home (WFH) not only impacts commercial / office real estate but also reduces the number of cars on the road and reduced gas consumption, let alone people will be buying cars less as they put less miles on their cars.
Also technology such as with the gaming with virtual reality goggles and internet streaming services (Netflix, Disney +, etc.) means less car travel to the movie theaters or other entertainment centers. People spending more and more time at home and less inclined to want to travel.
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