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What's More Dangerous, Wuhan Virus Or Our Reaction?


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2020 Mar 18, 6:21pm   2,524 views  61 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/covid-chaos-whats-more-dangerous-virus-or-our-reaction

Wuhan Virus is spreading, generating more headlines, greater anxiety and paranoia, and, of course, cancellations and closings. It’s high time to ask a critical question: Could our reaction to the fear of COVID-19 do more harm than the virus itself? ...

A good deal of this panic is the result of the nigh constant and almost exclusively apocalyptic coverage in the news. Just as the left-leaning media like to hype up the number of gun deaths – the majority of which are suicides – but ignore medical mistakes, as if doctors don’t kill far more Americans than firearms, they’re now using Coronavirus as a way to target President Trump. See how terribly he’s handling this deadly pandemic? Do you really want to vote this guy back into office for a second term? It’s selective outrage: The media choose to highlight the issues that further the leftist agenda. ...

Coronavirus is not flu, no matter how many times the two are compared. The reproduction number is about twice as high for COVID-19, meaning that the average sick person is expected to infect twice as many people as they would with influenza. That aside, while the Coronavirus is believed to have a much deadlier potential than the seasonal flu, that doesn’t change the fact that COVID-19 has claimed — according to the CDC as of March 16 — 6,606 lives globally, with 41 of those being in the United States.

The flu season is still in full swing, and the CDC doesn’t like to give exact numbers because not all cases are known, but so far America has lost between 22,000 and 55,000 to influenza since October of last year. Coronavirus has a lot of catching up to do if it’s going to live up to the hype that it’s more dangerous than seasonal flu...

When the dust settles, how many people will be left without a job, a ride, or even a home? When it’s all said and done, the 2019-2020 Coronavirus death toll will almost certainly be just a drop in the bucket compared to boring old influenza. This won’t make the books as one of the greatest plagues in history, but the economic collapse caused by our panic just might.

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1   Patrick   2020 Mar 18, 8:34pm  

Fauci is a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force established in late January 2020, under President Trump, to deal with the coronavirus pandemic.[12] He estimated the final case fatality rate of those who are infected will likely be closer to 1% than the 2% initially estimated by the World Health Organization, which is still ten times the 0.1% reported rate for seasonal flu.[13][14]


OK, so it's 10x the seasonal flu.

Seriously not worth shutting down the world for. The economic repercussions are going to be dire if this goes on for months.
2   REpro   2020 Mar 18, 8:50pm  

What need exploration? Why coronavirus patients overload hospitals beds vs. influenza patients who does not.
3   mbSFBay   2020 Mar 18, 9:14pm  

Patrick says
Fauci is a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force established in late January 2020, under President Trump, to deal with the coronavirus pandemic.[12] He estimated the final case fatality rate of those who are infected will likely be closer to 1% than the 2% initially estimated by the World Health Organization, which is still ten times the 0.1% reported rate for seasonal flu.[13][14]


OK, so it's 10x the seasonal flu.

Seriously not worth shutting down the world for. The economic repercussions are going to be dire if this goes on for months.


You are overlooking that fact that there is a vaccine for flu - and also flu has an additional firewall- herd immunity. For this one, until a vaccine is out, most folks have no acquired immunity as this is a new virus (novavirus). If left to proliferate, it will take a lot of lives, that you should not doubt. There is a good chance that majority population may not even develop symptoms, but still be capable of transmitting it to vulnerable folks.
4   Ceffer   2020 Mar 18, 10:08pm  

Unless there is some aspect of the viral entity beyond mere infection and/or minor death rate. Something that is part of the weaponization, since the thrust of the shutdown is to prevent any spread at any cost to society and the economy. Maybe a 'double tandem poison' kind of thing, where infection results in an enhanced susceptibility to a second agent which results in near universal fatality.

Who knows. The powers that be haven't exactly scotched panic, if not made it worse. Maybe if people knew what was really going on, it would be real cannibal anarchy.
5   Shaman   2020 Mar 18, 10:30pm  

Patrick says
OK, so it's 10x the seasonal flu.

Seriously not worth shutting down the world for. The economic repercussions are going to be dire if this goes on for months.


Yes, this one is far more deadly than the flu. And yes there’s no eradication of this possible, even if we lock ourselves away for a year. So how long will they do this?
Some things to consider:
1)The economy won’t work with most everyone at home.
2)This quarantine relies on voluntary cooperation. There is no government force available to make it happen if a significant percentage of people decide to rebel.
3) this has to be temporary. I doubt people will put up with this for more than 2 or 3 months. After that they will defy the quarantine, and it will have to end.

Based on this logic, the quarantine is about BUYING TIME for scientists and the medical industry to formulate, test, and produce a vaccine that works.

I predict that we will end the quarantine in a couple months with an injection. You get inoculated, and you can go back to your life.
6   Ceffer   2020 Mar 18, 10:53pm  

Shaman says
2)This quarantine relies on voluntary cooperation. There is no government force available to make it happen if a significant percentage of people decide to rebel.

Not to mention people who don't give a rat's ass about society, and the five percent sociopaths/psychopaths, some of whom would spread it on purpose, like arsonists spread fires.

Some gays hold 'bug parties' to purposely infect non infected gays so they can all continue to participate in orgies and anonymous sex without caring any more.

Of course, in their infinite compassion, the liberal powers that be reduced knowingly infecting somebody with HIV to a mere misdemeanor, but they will now quarantine and bring the economy to a halt over Coronavirus.

Also, isolation is demanded of the society's productive and 'sensible' elements, while the homeless (who are vector and pathogen central) have radio silence and immunity about any specific policy involving them.
7   Ceffer   2020 Mar 18, 11:02pm  

How many people have died of heart attacks ranting and raging at the internet? Nobody talks about that, huh?
8   Patrick   2020 Mar 18, 11:19pm  

He didn't call the coronavirus a hoax, only the criticism of his handling it:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/02/fact-check-did-trump-call-coronavirus-a-hoax/
9   Misc   2020 Mar 19, 12:00am  

If you think the media has been hyping this, you ain't seen nothing compared to the next couple of weeks. There is going to be a complete shit storm of coverage on every channel 24/7 of sick people and the lack of care they are getting just to keep people scared. The report the 2-3 million newly unemployed with no hope of finding a new job. There will be no coverage of the small businesses going belly up because that just isn't news, but there may be some coverage of bailouts for the large companies. Unless the politicians stand up to the media and put the economy before phantom mass deaths, the job losses will just accelerate, and trillions of dollars of debt would need to be written off, and those jobs will have a hard time coming back.
10   richwicks   2020 Mar 19, 1:48am  

REpro says
You are overlooking that fact that there is a vaccine for flu -


That is about 20-30% effective, when they predict the correct strain. Even when they get the wrong strain, they urge people to get it although it does nothing. It's not even worthwhile to get the shot.
11   WookieMan   2020 Mar 19, 5:37am  

Ceffer says
Also, isolation is demanded of the society's productive and 'sensible' elements, while the homeless (who are vector and pathogen central) have radio silence and immunity about any specific policy involving them.

Perfect description. Terrific. The best.

It won't be huge numbers by any metric, but I do think a lot of people are going to start questioning living in densely populated areas. I know I'm happy as fuck to be out of Chicago for this and many other reasons. Whether you like suburban areas (and rural) or not, they're greatly reducing the spread of this. It's the exact reason the Spanish Flu was so bad. Vast majority of the population lived in large cities.
12   Onvacation   2020 Mar 19, 6:36am  

Misc says
There is going to be a complete shit storm of coverage on every channel 24/7 of sick people and the lack of care they are getting just to keep people scared.

When?
I've searched for videos of patients suffering from corona and all I get is hangover videos.

Can anyone find a video of someone with corona?
13   WookieMan   2020 Mar 19, 7:07am  

Tim Aurora says
You guys still do not get the "exponential" aspect . Here is a trivia challenge for you.

Here is a quiz- A single lily pad in the pond spawns a new lily every day and each spawned lily also gets to spawn a new lily everyday. It takes the 100 days to fill the whole pond. So how many days does it take to fill approximately 3-4% of the pond.

Jesus dude, everyone has been exposed!! I've been exposed to it for weeks at this point as cases are popping up in my area and I'm completely rural. Old people stay home and don't visit old people. Not complicated. Most doctors would agree as much. I don't care about a fucking pond...
14   WookieMan   2020 Mar 19, 7:38am  

Tim Aurora says
During the speech he also seemed to downplay the severity of the outbreak, comparing it to the common flu.

Evidence that it's not? Link?

If this kills more than the common flu I'd be a bit surprised. Not saying it can't happen. This ain't killing 1M people though or whatever you're suggesting. And if it does, the SS fund just got more balanced. Gotta take the positives out of life. Don't let the media make you live in a negative echo chamber of death and despair which is where we're at.
15   marcus   2020 Mar 19, 8:03am  

:
WookieMan says
If this kills more than the common flu I'd be a bit surprised


Nobody can see that far in to the future. But a couple things we do know:

1) the rate that it's growing - people generally seem to have a hard time comprehending exponential growth of this kind.

2) that even if this virus doesn't kill you its not super kind to everyone under 50, and it can permanently damage organs, especially lungs leaving people pretty fucked up for life.

One of the things this exposes is the degree to which we seem intellectually broken. The so called information age has only made people better at believing what they want, because they can always find plenty of people that are with them no matter how stupid the point of view. Hence the flat earthers, Trump, 97 genders, etc.
16   RWSGFY   2020 Mar 19, 8:04am  

Bernie Sanders walks into a bar and yells: “Free drinks for everyone!”
The bartender asks: “Who’s buying?”
Bernie says: “Well it’s obviously the guy who has the most money!”
The crowd cheers: “That’s you Bernie! We are all unemployed because of the coronavirus!”
17   stereotomy   2020 Mar 19, 8:15am  

Tim Aurora says
You guys still do not get the "exponential" aspect . Here is a trivia challenge for you.

Here is a quiz- A single lily pad in the pond spawns a new lily every day and each spawned lily also gets to spawn a new lily everyday. It takes the 100 days to fill the whole pond. So how many days does it take to fill approximately 3-4% of the pond.

95 days @ 3.125% fill
18   marcus   2020 Mar 19, 8:18am  

:
If someone gives you one penny today, 2 pennies tomorrow, 4 pennies the following day and so on, how much money have you received have after 31 days ?

Do you think it's more than 50,000 dollars ?

More than 200,000 dollars ?

Calculator time 2^30 = ?

Thats pennies so move the decimal point 2 places to the left. Oh, I just realized fortwayne can't even see this and I'm talking to you like you're middle school students. Sorry about that.
19   Onvacation   2020 Mar 19, 8:19am  

marcus says
1) the rate that it's growing - people generally seem to have a hard time comprehending exponential growth of this kind.

hockey stick, we get it.
20   Onvacation   2020 Mar 19, 8:25am  

marcus says
:
If someone gives you one penny today, 2 pennies tomorrow, 4 pennies the following day and so on, how much money have you received have after 31 days ?

Do you think it's more than 50,000 dollars ?

53,687.091.20 or 5,368,709,120 pennies. What does that have to do with the kung flu? Are you trying to say the whole world will get the flu?

you're probably right.
21   Patrick   2020 Mar 19, 8:59am  

marcus says
One of the things this exposes is the degree to which we seem intellectually broken. The so called information age has only made people better at believing what they want, because they can always find plenty of people that are with them no matter how stupid the point of view.


@marcus agree with you here.

The Trump haters keep coming up with specious reasons to hate him, ignoring the elephant in the room that got Trump elected: the severe harms of globalization.
22   Patrick   2020 Mar 19, 9:30am  

https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/03/18/poll-finds-the-economic-impact-of-covid-19-is-more-of-a-concern-than-the-health-effects.html

"Canadians are more worried about the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic than they are over the health effects of the virus, a new poll suggests.

The Campaign Research survey provided to the Star found a staggering 99 per cent of respondents are aware of the crisis — and 93 per cent are worried about the economy.

“You just never see those kinds of numbers,” Richard Ciano, a principal of Campaign Research, said Wednesday.""
23   georgeliberte   2020 Mar 19, 9:52am  

https://www.sfgate.com/news/medical/article/National-parks-are-open-with-some-changes-15142095.php
"Sir, I am going to have to ask you to keep the pic-a-nic baskets away from the bear; he is smarter than the av-er-age bear!"
24   WookieMan   2020 Mar 19, 9:58am  

Patrick says
https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/03/18/poll-finds-the-economic-impact-of-covid-19-is-more-of-a-concern-than-the-health-effects.html

"Canadians are more worried about the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic than they are over the health effects of the virus, a new poll suggests.

The Campaign Research survey provided to the Star found a staggering 99 per cent of respondents are aware of the crisis — and 93 per cent are worried about the economy.

“You just never see those kinds of numbers,” Richard Ciano, a principal of Campaign Research, said Wednesday.""

Yup.... and then you get this stupidity.....

Tim Aurora says
Now that we have established that exponential diseases , especially the one that are asymptomatic initially can suddenly creep up on us , like a wildfire and a storm , are very hard to comprehend for the normal folks till it is too late.here is an article for you


“The Imperial College London group reported that if nothing was done by governments and individuals and the pandemic remained uncontrolled, 510,000 would die in Britain and 2.2 million in the United States over the course of the outbreak,” The Post reports. Even if we now institute uniform, serious measures to mitigate the spread of the virus, we would “reduce mortality by half, to 260,000 people in the United Kingdom and 1.1 million in the United States.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/18/trumps-li...
25   WookieMan   2020 Mar 19, 9:59am  

Maybe the pond will fucking get full. Maybe 3-4% of it..... #Guam
26   MisdemeanorRebel   2020 Mar 19, 10:28am  

Onvacation says
53,687.091.20 or 5,368,709,120 pennies. What does that have to do with the kung flu? Are you trying to say the whole world will get the flu?


The first number is a little less than the total number of Americans (not Globally) that got H1N1 back in the Obama Era: ~60M from memory, I believe.
27   WookieMan   2020 Mar 19, 11:14am  

NoCoupForYou says
Onvacation says
53,687.091.20 or 5,368,709,120 pennies. What does that have to do with the kung flu? Are you trying to say the whole world will get the flu?


The first number is a little less than the total number of Americans (not Globally) that got H1N1 back in the Obama Era: ~60M from memory, I believe.

But the pond is full of lily pads. You're not taking this seriously.
28   mell   2020 Mar 19, 11:24am  

WookieMan says
NoCoupForYou says
Onvacation says
53,687.091.20 or 5,368,709,120 pennies. What does that have to do with the kung flu? Are you trying to say the whole world will get the flu?


The first number is a little less than the total number of Americans (not Globally) that got H1N1 back in the Obama Era: ~60M from memory, I believe.

But the pond is full of lily pads. You're not taking this seriously.


I find myself agreeing more and more with you but the question is what would we have done with the dying. I don't think any politician can afford to say "sorry those that don't make it are collateral damage, we all have to die at some point" - also at least in France many younger seem to be critically affected. However it is still questionable if it ever reaches the size of the swine flu. We can't get many other doctor services in the bay area because they are all "concentrating" on Covid. How is that balance determined? You're a paying healthcare customer, had some tests done, got the bill, and now they say "sorry - no treatment until further notice!" - I would not pay those bills, I mean everybody has a right to treatment, no? Who gets to decide that? Of corse you could turn to a Dr who keeps their services open but likely your insurance won't work there. Lot of people economically impacted significantly may cause more stress and lives that this. I went on a run yesterday and GG Park was PACKED - as soon as the sun came out people simply couldn't stay indoors anymore. You could still maintain 6 ft distance but it was busy, and frankly it was good to see that life as we know it didn't cease. We shall see.
29   marcus   2020 Mar 19, 12:16pm  

Patrick says
elephant in the room that got Trump elected: the severe harms of globalization.


That's your take.

My view is that he conned people about something that they are frustrated about that has already happened, history, as if he can change or undo it. He's more or less con artist grifter. It would hurt too much to comprehend that you fell for a con. Perhaps there were several other things that appealed to you about his con. It was disegned for the Fox/Brietbart viewer. That is one of those groups I was referring to.

marcus says
The so called information age has only made people better at believing what they want, because they can always find plenty of people that are with them no matter how stupid the point of view. Hence the flat earthers, Trump, 97 genders, etc.


"Trump" was a shorthand for the Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, talk Radio, and Brietbart audience (any combination of those)
31   Patrick   2020 Mar 19, 12:37pm  

marcus says
something that they are frustrated about that has already happened, history, as if he can change or undo it.


Trump was making a good effort to mitigate the severe harms of globalization on US workers.

But coronavirus is going to put the fight against harmful globalization into TURBO MODE!

This is very good in the long run.
32   socal2   2020 Mar 19, 12:38pm  

marcus says
My view is that he conned people about something that they are frustrated about that has already happened, history, as if he can change or undo it.


Will the Democrat argument be this Fall that Biden and the Democrats can't undo previous bad decisions on globalization (in particular with China) and we just have to suck it up and learn to live with pandemics and having our supply chains held hostage?

Are the Democrats "conned" in thinking we have no power to correct bad decisions?

Got to say, that is not too "Progressive"!
33   Patrick   2020 Mar 19, 12:56pm  

socal2 says
Got to say, that is not too "Progressive"!



Lol, yes, as Democrats betray absolutely everything they once stood for, they certainly should lose the "progressive" label.

They are very conservative about changing the globalization that has fucked US workers, and has now fucked the whole planet.
34   WookieMan   2020 Mar 19, 1:17pm  

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/817974987/every-single-individual-must-stay-home-italy-s-coronavirus-deaths-pass-china-s

2nd to last paragraph.

Remuzzi says he is now hearing information about it from general practitioners. "They remember having seen very strange pneumonia, very severe, particularly in old people in December and even November," he says. "This means that the virus was circulating, at least in [the northern region of] Lombardy and before we were aware of this outbreak occurring in China."


THIS, is the fucking problem. Fucking Chinese ass hoes. It's a sheer numbers game. This has been spreading here likely for months and nobody knew it. I knew this fucking thing has been around since October/November. It's almost impossible that you haven't been exposed if you've been on a train, plane, concert, sporting event, any event since Jan/Feb.
35   MisdemeanorRebel   2020 Mar 20, 5:16pm  

The Media is a major part of the Problem

www.youtube.com/embed/gZwAy9RGcg8

If the Media we have today was around 80 years ago:

"The only thing we have to fear,is, fear itself."
"Is it possible that your impulse to put a positive spin on things may be giving Americans a false sense of hope?”
36   BayArea   2020 Mar 20, 7:37pm  

Why does the left say that Trump called the CoronaVirus a hoax? Is it because they are careless assholes or disingenuous assholes?
37   MisdemeanorRebel   2020 Mar 20, 7:44pm  

This is CNN

Stay tuned for expert advice on the Trump Virus...
38   Y   2020 Mar 20, 9:15pm  

Why are you changing the denomination?
This is a trick question...

marcus says
If someone gives you one penny today, 2 pennies tomorrow, 4 pennies the following day and so on, how much money have you received have after 31 days ?

Do you think it's more than 50,000 dollars ?
39   clambo   2020 Mar 20, 9:41pm  

How about: “Which is more deadly, Wuhan virus or Fentanyl (made in China) and heroin sent across our border by Mexican cartels and distributed by Mexicans in the USA?”

The only president who has mentioned this problem is Donald Trump.

Tens of thousands of people die from drug overdoses every year.
40   mell   2020 Mar 21, 9:35am  

Fuck CNN. Fuck Sean Penn. Actually in the bay area yesterday most counties added a handful of cases, down from the growth in the 20s per county. The lockdown is working but the media will milk this and try to attack orange man bad! whenever they can. There is actually a shortage of protective gear sind it can not be reused much which does piss me off, but there's no shortages of hospital beds yet. Still they postponed most visits and put in person treatments on hold for many patients, some.of them need the care or surgery critically. It's interesting how they weigh/value lives differently. It should probably go by age but it doesn't necessarily.

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