patrick.net
An Antidote to Corporate Media
1,192,109 comments by 13,864 users - askmeaboutthesaltporkcure, RayAmerica, RC2006, UkraineIsTotallyFucked online now
LOL OMG since Obama was a financial genius, that saved the economy he inherited from Bush, Trump is going to Obama economy the Dip
invite response
2020 Mar 15, 5:14pm 326 views 1 comment
Comments 1 - 1 of 1 Search these comments
1
marcus
2020 Mar 15, 6:07pm
marcus
2020 Mar 15, 6:07pm
I think it's reasonable to bail out the economy. By the way, Obama wanted to do more stimulus than he did, and they wouldn't let him.
It was a very very different situation. Republicans criticized him for lending US Govt money to the car companies.
My question with the 1.5 trillion, which was not Trump's call in a vacuum, is why now ? The stock market isn't down that much. A lot of people thought a recession was coming before this happened. Is it really wise to try to bail out a recession before it happens ?
Part of the function of a recession is to take unproductive capacity out of the system,. It cleans things out to set the stage for the next cycle. We got a decade cycle out of that, 2008 crash and great recession, even if the debt problem is still there.
But here we are propping up the market at level that is only down to 2018 levels. Still well above 2016 levels. Markets have a way of sorting things out.
You want them to spend another 1.5 trillion if the market collapses 10 percent below where it was Thursday ? Bear markets need to be allowed to happen. I'm not saying that it will be now, but at some point you get a retrenchment. In spring of 2009 the market had been falling for a year and a half. It's not that I believe that kind of bear market needs to happen. Maybe its just a couple years of consolidation. Or maybe it goes right back up. But the market has a mind of it's own. Moving too soon as the ultimate buyer could be a really really bad move.
If the market was was overpriced, it needs to be allowed to fall. Denying that and maniplating the price is just one more attempt at fascism/dictatorship. The market was under priced in 2008, and there was panic everywhere, people losing their homes, lehman, the whole mortgage crisis etc. This in the other hand is just a big correction probably, and possibly the beginning of a recession. Propping up the market would be a bad move. I doubt it's going all that much lower with interest rates as low as they are anyway.
By the way, this isn't a normal bar chart, other wise it would show the weeks low to be very close to that 2018 low.
The bar version.
https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/%5EGSPC#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%3D%3D
It was a very very different situation. Republicans criticized him for lending US Govt money to the car companies.
My question with the 1.5 trillion, which was not Trump's call in a vacuum, is why now ? The stock market isn't down that much. A lot of people thought a recession was coming before this happened. Is it really wise to try to bail out a recession before it happens ?
Part of the function of a recession is to take unproductive capacity out of the system,. It cleans things out to set the stage for the next cycle. We got a decade cycle out of that, 2008 crash and great recession, even if the debt problem is still there.
But here we are propping up the market at level that is only down to 2018 levels. Still well above 2016 levels. Markets have a way of sorting things out.
You want them to spend another 1.5 trillion if the market collapses 10 percent below where it was Thursday ? Bear markets need to be allowed to happen. I'm not saying that it will be now, but at some point you get a retrenchment. In spring of 2009 the market had been falling for a year and a half. It's not that I believe that kind of bear market needs to happen. Maybe its just a couple years of consolidation. Or maybe it goes right back up. But the market has a mind of it's own. Moving too soon as the ultimate buyer could be a really really bad move.
If the market was was overpriced, it needs to be allowed to fall. Denying that and maniplating the price is just one more attempt at fascism/dictatorship. The market was under priced in 2008, and there was panic everywhere, people losing their homes, lehman, the whole mortgage crisis etc. This in the other hand is just a big correction probably, and possibly the beginning of a recession. Propping up the market would be a bad move. I doubt it's going all that much lower with interest rates as low as they are anyway.
By the way, this isn't a normal bar chart, other wise it would show the weeks low to be very close to that 2018 low.
The bar version.
https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/%5EGSPC#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%3D%3D
The pure comedy gold will be when the NYT, CNN, Wall Street Urinal, and WaPo all start saying it's bad when Trump does it.
But it will keep the companies open and all of the jobs secure when the hoax pays out.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/federal-reserve-cuts-rates-to-zero-launches-700-billion-quantitative-easing/