patrick.net

You're a nazi and a racist. I have a nice gulag with your name on a cell with straw mattress and a bucket for a toilet.

Full-time-stay-at-home-parent is a Luxury that hardly anyone can afford.

My partner-and-coparent burned the candle at both ends, working staggered shifts, paying through the nose for childcare, also depending on grandparents for help. And that was for the privilege of living in a zipcode most of you Bay Areans would call a ghetto in East San Jose.

It was not part of some feminist social agenda, it was survival. Broke my partner's heart when she returned to work leaving the six week old with me (we were on staggered shifts). But she did it. We might've had fancy jobs in engineering and finance in Silicon Valley. But, we are still working class folks. Wifey at home was a luxury that was not part of our value system.

During those years, this happened. A young accountant in the startup where I worked, lost his wife in a freak infection. She felt ill, drove herself to the hospital, and died there.

She was a full-time-stay-at-home mom at their home in Cupertino, The Fortress. While my parent/co-partner and I navigated from the East SJ ghetto to your "Silicon Valley" in Old Beaters, he drove an expensive, stylish, newish European Sedan. Did Wifey have her own? Or maybe a Mini-Van? I don't know.

We had two schoolagers, not rationale enough for a mini-van.

Now wifey is gone, and he's got two little girls. They were passing around the hat because he was in a desperate situation, no money to pay for the childcare he suddenly needed. Apparently, they were either too arrogant to have life insurance on wifey, and/or else could not spare the extra cash for the premium on her.

F*ck. My family lives in The Ghetto, where Mr. and Mrs. Yuppie would never go to. We drive Old Beaters to the same Silicon Valley work venues these High People come to in their European Sedans. The whole damn time, we could've lived on one salary. We did sometimes, when one of us was between jobs due to layoffs. We both paid into social security, retirement, etc., for the duration.

Now I'm expected to make a contribution because of his hardship? F*ck.

I made one, probably the most generous one for an individual contributor at that outfit. But I was pissed about it. My reasoning was, it was not the little girls' fault that their parents were so shallow, superficial, selfish.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Full-time-stay-at-home-parent is a Luxury that hardly anyone can afford.

Because women work, it raised the cost of many things, preventing the two-parent family for the middle and working classes.

Childcare is abundant and cheap when 80% of the women on your block had kids of their own and were stay-at-home moms.

Now that 80% of the block is working mothers, childcare isn't cheap. And the attendant social ills, lack of participation in schools and community activites, etc.

It sucks for men, too, you come home to MOAR work, rather than peace and a homecooked meal.

A backup beater was great if all mom had to do was pop around the corner for groceries or kid pickups. But when mom has a half-hour commute herself, she needs a reliable car, not a 15-20 year old clanker. More costs - insurance, gas, car payments.

Women working is expensive. After childcare, college loan repayments, gas, insurance, office clothes (and expensive makeup and potions once used on Friday, now used everyday), lunch and coffee out, more takeout and less cheaper healthier homecooking, etc.

Don't laugh at makeup... my wife goes through $200-300 in lotions and potions a month, easy - and some are closer to $500. Clothes to. A stay at home mom needs a nice going out outfit or two, the rest is mom jeans and sweatshirts. A working mother needs much more clothes split between causal, office, and evening wear and constant replacement of shoes, purses, etc.

The biggest lie is they always show to Middle Class girls Fashion Executives or Lawyers going to Spas, not some Middle Aged lady dragging herself to another day at $40k working as Accounts Payable for Midstate Office Supply.

NoCoupForYou says

Because women work, it raised the cost of many things

If you so say, but that's the reality my (selfish) coworker, and my family were in.

Since we came from humble roots, my partner and I came from generations of working moms. It was only the generation my own Baby Boom parents, living in the anomalously (phoney) post-WWII "affluence", where they could afford the luxury of my working class parents having my mom and all most (not all though) of their cohorts with stay-at-home-wifey.

The reason I am a feminist, is not for the me-too-er young women who play the gender card. Those types are poison. For every one of those types, there's scores of plain Janes who are not pretty or cute or whatever, who are passed up for the me-too-er cuties to get the promotions and perks, then they turn on the dudes. In my view, feminism is about those hardworking women who support their families, not the gender-card-players.

Don't use the School-Classroom-Volunteer straw man-woman argument on me, either. I was a fixture at my kids' K-12, all the way through grade 12. I worked nights as many years as I could, allowing time for all sorts of volunteer time at the schools. When I had to return to dayshift, my partner and I burned up all our vacation days, one-day-at-a-time, at the schools. Didn't have a fancy-Yuppie-family vacation for over a decade.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Don't use the School-Classroom-Volunteer straw man-woman argument on me, either. I was a fixture at my kids' K-12, all the way through grade 12. I worked nights as many years as I could, allowing time for all sorts of volunteer time at the schools. When I had to return to dayshift, my partner and I burned up all our vacation days, one-day-at-a-time, at the schools. Didn't have a fancy-Yuppie-family vacation for over a decade.

You're reading more into my post than I put in.

Because the majority of women transferred to work, they raised the cost of many things, making stay at home mothering difficult these days. They also made middle class girls get a distorted view of what worklife meant for 90% of them, a crappy office job that doesn't involve trips to Milan or Conferences in Hawaii.

Who is looking out the window at 3PM keeping an eye on the neighborhood kids? Who is noticing the White Van unloading everything from the Johnson's Garage at 11AM on Tuesday?

I'm not talking about ACTIVE participation, but passive too. Schools would never have males showering with 14-year old girls in school in a neighborhood of stay at home moms, they have the Time to do something about it, not just bake cookies.

While mom was working, the childless liberals were plotting.

Affordability and rising costs are as big issue. But an even bigger issue is consumerism and people, esp. womyn not being happy anymore. Sometimes you have to be the strong male and remind them that shit and iPhones don't make you happy.

"Happiness is having a woman at home who loves you enough to cook you healthy food"

- told to me by an African cab driver.

Sounds simple, but it's hard to argue w the logic.

My neighborhood is full of stay at home wives. The wives did have careers in their 20s, but now are a stay at home mom in the 30s and on. Upper middle class.

My friend watched an Oprah episode and the poll among females was 74% would prefer to stay at home.

I'm sure many women would even prefer staying at home with no home chores implied - just spend days shopping or something.

This misses the point that feminism as pushed from the elite was always meant for economic reasons: make women work paid jobs. Have other paid people be nannies, cooks, and cleaners. What would our GDP be without counting this?

Women happiness was always secondary.

There are lots of savings to be had with a stay at home parent

Daycare $800 -1200
work commute $200
Eat in vs out $500
lower tax bracket
No missing work for sick kid
Fix vs throw away I.e. clothing

All they had to do initially was target the egos of women: "Because you're worth it...."
BANG!... like shooting an elephant in a corridor.

Now it's no longer a real choice: most families need 2 incomes, and that's that.
Mission accomplished.

HeadSet says

My neighborhood is full of stay at home wives. The wives did have careers in their 20s, but now are are at home mom in the 30s and on. Upper middle class.

This is an important factor as well.
Heraclitusstudent says

Now it's no longer a real choice: most families need 2 incomes, and that's that.

That's what I've been trying to say.

Just like the elimination of regulation for credit cards created huge debts, increased consumer prices, and made the concept of saving less and less important.

noobster says

There are lots of savings to be had with a stay at home parent

Daycare $800 -1200
work commute $200
Eat in vs out $500
lower tax bracket
No missing work for sick kid
Fix vs throw away I.e. clothing

The other thing to remember is that paying for this stuff and services is all with after tax money. So assuming your family is doing average to above average and you pay state income tax, 15-20% is taken off any extra spousal income. For example, that 2nd income is $50k. You lose $7,500-$10k (or more) in taxes out the gate.

Depending on the age, you of course can still write off childcare assuming your provider or person watching the kids reports the income. But the write off is capped and if I recall correctly it's just a reduction of taxable income. Most of my peers are using in home daycare paying cash, so can't use the childcare tax beni anyway. If they're not doing that, any daycare center, in almost any part of the country will charge at least $1,200/mo per kid for an "average" daycare center. So just one kid could be upwards of $12K/ year. Factor in the taxes above and your net take home is getting under $30k, just to have someone else raise your kids.

My former boss' wife was working, and when you did the math was actually costing the family money by working. That's not a joke. Their effective tax rate in IL was roughly 20% including state income taxes (probably higher actually). She was making $28-32k depending on the year. In home nanny at $26k per year (not tax deductible and they provided food, housing, etc). Had a 2nd car they didn't need in Chicago. Her working a job probably cost their family conservatively $10k/yr.

I think if some people did the math they'd be shocked how little they "actually" make just to have 2 spouses working. And in some cases are losing by working. Factor in not having mom or dad home with regards to the kids and it's generally a pretty stupid proposition. Don't worry about the Jones' and their boats and toys they can't afford. Raise good kids.

The other thing to remember is that paying for this stuff and services is all with after tax money

+1000. That statement is applicable to anything that saves money.

True women's lib is not both parents working and the kids sent to day care, but would instead be an equal number of stay at home dads and stay at home moms. However, few women (although there are some) would like a stay at home husband.

Ceffer says

F*ck. My family lives in The Ghetto, where Mr. and Mrs. Yuppie would never go to. We drive Old Beaters to the same Silicon Valley work venues these High People come to in their European Sedans. The whole damn time, we could've lived on one salary. We did sometimes, when one of us was between jobs due to layoffs. We both paid into social security, retirement, etc., for the duration.

Why do you continue to live like that or for that matter , live in the Bay area.....this is a serious question...

All the career women I know are miserable. Most never marry, the few that do pump out one kid that they never want to hang out with because they want to chill on their iphone when off work. They don't cook, they don't nurture.

The only happy women I know, don't work, have two plus kids, are active in their kids lifes and run the family home.

The whole women's lib, go be a lawyer or doctor is antithetical to a women's true nature in my opinion.

komputodo says

Why do you continue to live like that or for that matter , live in the Bay area.....this is a serious question...

It's our home town, bro. We grew up here. Our previous generations, cousins, siblings, adult kids, homies from K-12 and through college all live nearby. Some homies have left. Many stayed.

We grew up in the Ghetto Neighborhoods Hipster Yuppies from across the valley sneer upon. We went to the public schools in our neighborhoods. We know the streets and feel safe here. We work in the same cubicle warrens as hipsters from elite places all over the world.

We like driving Old Beaters. Keep them well maintained, it's the cheapest personal transportation available.

We did not flock to Silicon Valley in Gold-Rush fashion like those hipsters who stress out to keep face.

We have seen the bad behaviors that daily stress brings to the workplace: back-stabbing, not sharing information, taking credit for others' efforts, bringing sick kids who are turned away from the school or childcare to the workplace, bringing kids to the workplace on school holidays. That's what happens when you burn up all your vacation time on travel to glamorous places or to "back home" where ever you came to here from, or fearful of not showing face in the office. No bank of days to stay home with schoolagers; no extended family in the region to help out.

Patrick created this website to share his experience about the ridiculous cost of housing here, and the shenanigans of ®ealtors to create bidding wars.

One approach to that problem is to live in "the ghetto". Many K-12 in the ghetto have great opportunities, even among the thuggy kids. Scores of kids from my kids' ghetto schools were accepted to elite UC's and Ivies. Because API is an average. It does not mean that every kid can't succeed. It is key to be grounded in your community for a boots on the ground knowledge. Hipsters who parachute in tend to congregate in overpriced enclaves.

Dholliday126 says

The whole women's lib, go be a lawyer or doctor is antithetical to a women's true nature in my opinion.

Absolutely, though to state that opinion would get you shot in today's intolerant atmosphere.

Men's and women's minds are as different as their bodies.

NoCoupForYou says

Childcare is abundant and cheap when 80% of the women on your block had kids of their own and were stay-at-home moms.

Grandparents can look after kids...provided they are not shipped off to elderhouse to die.

HeadSet says

True women's lib is not both parents working and the kids sent to day care, but would instead be an equal number of stay at home dads and stay at home moms. However, few women (although there are some) would like a stay at home husband.

Fastest way to get divorced is to become a stay at home dad.

rd6B says

Grandparents can look after kids...provided they are not shipped off to elderhouse to die.

Depends, people also get married and have their first kid several years later (29 today instead of 22 in 1980; average age of female first marriage in US was 21 in 1980 versus 27 today) and a lot of retired people move to Arizona and Florida.

Multigen is great and efficient, but I doubt many 27 year old women want to live with parents, theirs or the in-laws

NoCoupForYou says

I doubt many 27 year old women want to live with parents, theirs or the in-laws

That is another issue these days. We have "nuclear" instead of "extended" family that can take care of nearly anything. I grew up in extended family (grandparents, uncles, aunts, other assorted relatives) and it was convenient for parents, me, and everyone else involved, and older generation had a purpose in life other than slowly expiring in retirement house.
Edit: in extended family situation women have choice of working or staying at home.

NoCoupForYou says

Multigen is great and efficient, but I doubt many 27 year old women want to live with parents, theirs or the in-laws

True that. But you can still live in the community, nearby. Or you can Cowboy it, come here to Silicon Valley.

rd6B says

Edit: in extended family situation women have choice of working or staying at home.

Yep. It doesn't mean that their spouses are losers. Except inside the minds of folks like HEYYOU.

Another benefit to women not working/working part time: There's a reserve Laborer in the family.

Two working parents are "Fully engaged" and very few don't spend to their income - if one loses their job... their household fiscal health is measured then in weeks.

NoCoupForYou says

Fastest way to get divorced is to become a stay at home dad.

Strange. I have heard from guys divorced in Santa Cruz. Two were 'stay at home' Dads, who thought they were abiding by the Feminist Dicta. Surprise, surprise. Two others wives decided they were lesbians and were seduced away by dykes. I don't know if I would want to admit the latter out loud, Heh, Heh!

https://www.piratewires.com/p/tradwife-envy?publication_id=55605&post_id=109633614&isFreemail=true

The Tradwife Craze Is About Envy
tradwifes aren't about patriarchy, white supremacy, sexual fetishism, or indoctrination — it's about women staying home, a luxury most can't afford

In recent weeks there has been an explosion of articles covering the “tradwife” trend on TikTok, most of them focused on Estee Williams, a TikToker and former meteorology student. Williams embraces a forward-facing 50s housewife aesthetic, but behind it, a brand-building instinct only a woman who grew up on social media could possess. Her presentation is also more secular than some of her contemporaries. But the tradwife, as we know her online today, did not originate with Estee Williams, or on TikTok, or in the Book of Genesis either. God may have created Eve from Adam’s rib, but 4chan created the tradwife from Wojack in 2019 — a blond woman in a blue floral dress. The tradwife meme far preceded the recent surge in tradwife content on TikTok, which seems to have taken off around 2022.

“I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan, and never, never let you forget you're a man. Cause I'm a Woman”

Dholliday126 says

The whole women's lib, go be a lawyer or doctor is antithetical to a women's true nature in my opinion.

on the tv, they work 12 hrs then go to a high end bar and drink single malt scotch neat`.