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California fucking up legalization with excessive taxes

By Patrick follow Patrick   2019 Nov 24, 9:52am 289 views   32 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


https://ktla.com/2019/11/22/california-pot-taxes-to-increase-jan-1-shocking-unsteady-industry/

California is increasing business tax rates on legal marijuana, a move that stunned struggling companies that have been pleading with the state to do just the opposite.

Hefty marijuana taxes that can approach 50 percent in some communities have been blamed for pushing shoppers into California’s tax-free illegal market, which is thriving. Industry analysts estimate that $3 are spent in the illegal market for every $1 in the legal one.


The net result? Continued illegal growing, crime, police raids:

https://ktla.com/2019/10/09/10-tons-of-marijuana-plants-processed-pot-seized-during-raids-on-illegal-cultivation-sites-near-hemet-sheriffs-dept/

I'm sure the liquor distributors and prison guards' union are trying hard to kill legal pot in California for their own benefit.
1   Fortwaynemobile   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 24, 9:56am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Taxes kill, so it’s surprising that left wants to tax housing even more furthering homelessness, poverty and desperation as consequence of high taxes.

Taxes are meant to kill, while enriching few government connected fucks.
2   The_Weeping_Ayatollah   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 24, 10:50am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

California is fucking up California with excessive taxes.
3   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 24, 11:19am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Not only that, but the artificially high prices for weed are bringing in illegals from Mexico to tend those grow areas:

https://www.sacbee.com/latest-news/article237654164.html

12 Mexican citizens arrested for marijuana grow operation in Butte County, authorities say


Jesus Christ on a stick, why can't they just tell the truth and print that the growers are ILLEGALS?
4   Ceffer   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 24, 11:45am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Usual Usual. Taxes and regulation assure that there will always be illegal conduits. Growers don't want the Guv to be the silent partner in their profits, "legal" or not. Mafia cigarette transporters and moonshiners have already demonstrated that. So much for de-criminalization.

The new crimes becomes tax avoidance and violation of regulations. The government is going to get its vig.

"Legalize marijuana so we can continue to grow and distribute it illegally!" Ijits.
5   marcus   ignore (12)   2019 Nov 24, 11:49am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Ceffer says
Taxes and regulation assure that there will always be illegal conduits.


Yeah, just like with alchohol.
6   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 24, 11:53am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

marcus says
Ceffer says
Taxes and regulation assure that there will always be illegal conduits.


Yeah, just like with alchohol.

Are you insinuating there are not illegal sales of alcohol?
7   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 24, 11:58am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Are there? I don't think I've heard of illegal alcohol since the repeal of Prohibition.
8   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 24, 12:08pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Are there? I don't think I've heard of illegal alcohol since the repeal of Prohibition.

I thought you were a wine drinker! TONS of that shit is sold illegally. I have multiple, very good family friends getting $200/bottle wines from CA straight from the owners for $20-40/bottle (not including shipping). No taxes paid and no government involved. Some may be above board and legal, but there are plenty out there selling large quantities to "friends" under the radar.

Craft brewers and distillers all do it too. And yes, they sell legally too, but if you could track it, I have a feeling you'd be surprised by the percentage of illegal sales. Here is IL it's especially bad with the way the distribution network is set up. You basically get monopolized territories as a distributor that wine, beer and spirit makers HAVE to use to sell commercially. So within reason and not getting busted, people will sell it outside of the regulated distribution network. I know of two IL brewers doing this.

Moral of the story.... government makes things worse is most cases.
9   just_dregalicious   ignore (3)   2019 Nov 24, 12:12pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
I have multiple, very good family friends getting $200/bottle wines from CA straight from the owners for $20-40/bottle


We pay 20-40 for those bottles locally.

WookieMan says
Moral of the story.... government makes things worse is most cases.


I wish they still taught this in skool.
10   marcus   ignore (12)   2019 Nov 24, 12:20pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
Here is IL it's


WookieMan says
government makes things worse is most cases.


Being pretty bad with typing, and a fast reader, I totally understand this happening. But I'm just observing that you don't seem to be following your own high standards.

WookieMan says
There are a lot of errors in his posts. If time isn't taken to type them in correct, is proper time taken to research what he's posting? This is a fair question to ask and isn't being triggered. Rushing through things can lead to many mistake in many parts of life.


Don't worry about it. We expect massive and constant hypocrisy from you people.
11   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 24, 12:28pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

marcus says
Don't worry about it. Massive and constant hypocrisy is totally expected.

There we go! Triggered! Someone asks a question and you don't actually respond to it based on another thread where your feelings seem to have been hurt. At least you're being honest about it.

Grow up man. Were you implying that alchohol sales were above board all the time or not? Just answer that and focus on this thread.
12   marcus   ignore (12)   2019 Nov 24, 12:36pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

:
Are you new here ?

WookieMan says
your feelings seem to have been hurt


Not at all, but if you're going to lecture me about typos, and respecting the reader and myself by being more careful with proof reading and editing, then can't you do that yourself for at least a couple hours after said lecture ?

WookieMan says
Grow up man


Ooooow. Buuurrrrrn.

In answer to you, it was a trivial unimportant comment on my part, but in answer, I think illegal sales of alchohol must make up far far far under 1% of total. If not, it would probably be becasue of moonshine in Trump voter base part of the country, and not vineyard owners giving great cash deals to friends. They need the sales revenue, and their friends can pay a discounted taxed price at the vineyards. If under the table deep discount sales happen from Vineyards (I'm totally guessing) it would not be so much to friends as it would be to people that run wine tastings, that then also sell the same wines for retail (or discounted retail) to people that go to the tastings. But I could be wrong.
13   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 24, 12:52pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

just_dregalicious says
We pay 20-40 for those bottles locally.

I think we're talking about different things. It's fine you can get it for that, but you're paying sales and I assume some sort of booze tax out there right? I'm talking all avoidance of any of that. I was a bit hyperbolic with the $200/bottle example admittedly.

Basically it's an illegal sale of alcohol no different than weed. It doesn't really matter if the wine maker has a legal establishment or not, they're selling shit on the side to buddies and friends outside of the distribution network getting kickbacks and/or avoiding liquor taxes. It happens more than most would think.
14   just_dregalicious   ignore (3)   2019 Nov 24, 1:02pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

No I get what you're saying, no disagreement. For all I know those bottles do sell for $200 here. I do know there a a HUGE markup once they leave the state.

I suspect it won't last much longer. I've seen winery owners in Napa screaming about how Agenda-21 is negatively affecting them. If that doesn't do it fires (larger than those which were common when I was a kid living there) will or homeless-meth-addicts will move in. I doubt vagrant shit fertilizer will sell wine well.
15   mell   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 24, 1:16pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Taxes are bad here but the bottles sell for $200 because many idiots are willing to pay these prices to impress. Napa and Sonoma make some of the finest wines but they are all overpriced by 100%+. With a few exceptions. Gundlach Bundshuh for example makes high quality wines priced reasonably. A few wine clubs are worth it. Sonoma is still probably 50% cheaper than Napa. Many wines are great but if the bay area wouldn't be so close overall prices would be 30%-50%+ less easily.
16   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 24, 1:18pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

just_dregalicious says
I doubt vagrant shit fertilizer will sell wine well

I don't know. Wouldn't surprise me if it became a hipster type thing though. "We're recycling the waste of humans that shit in the Bay Area, transporting it in large trucks that spew diesel exhaust and using it as fertilizer to save the human race from wet bulb and drowning."

just_dregalicious says
No I get what you're saying, no disagreement.

I think you would be like this, but if you disagree with me, just don't be a bitch about it ;) As everyone here knows about my boasting about it, I have the Southwest Companion Pass. So if you want to go to Guam, be nice! Especially Tim.
17   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 24, 1:21pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

mell says
Taxes are bad here but the bottles sell for $200 because many idiots are willing to pay these prices to impress.

Yeah, I'm just going off hearsay evidence of what the bottles would go for here (IL) versus what these people paid from the owners. I'm sure some of these people are exaggerating too. But they're basically getting alcohol illegally, technically speaking. No sales or vice tax.
18   mell   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 24, 1:21pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Occasionally we join the idiots and buy at full price since we love and drink a lot of wine. But with a few good wine clubs and going in heavy on special sales you can lower the avg significantly.
19   mell   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 24, 1:24pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
mell says
Taxes are bad here but the bottles sell for $200 because many idiots are willing to pay these prices to impress.

Yeah, I'm just going off hearsay evidence of what the bottles would go for here (IL) versus what these people paid from the owners. I'm sure some of these people are exaggerating too. But they're basically getting alcohol illegally, technically speaking. No sales or vice tax.


True. Also a lot of states disallow shipments do people get creative and have a hub at a neighboring state then haul a truckload over every few months. Govt gets in the way of a lot of good things.
20   just_dregalicious   ignore (3)   2019 Nov 24, 1:31pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
So if you want to go to Guam


Too much work to be done on my place in Maui... So I can actually start going out there to relax instead of labor sometime soon.
21   Blue   ignore (0)   2019 Nov 24, 2:11pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

mell says
Taxes are bad here but the bottles sell for $200 because many idiots are willing to pay these prices to impress.


I am under the impression that most of the money goes to branding, marketing but not for its content. Just wondering, can anyone find the enough difference in taste between stuff under $50 vs $200+ in blind test.
22   mell   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 24, 3:09pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Blue says
mell says
Taxes are bad here but the bottles sell for $200 because many idiots are willing to pay these prices to impress.


I am under the impression that most of the money goes to branding, marketing but not for its content. Just wondering, can anyone find the enough difference in taste between stuff under $50 vs $200+ in blind test.


Generally I'd say no if you get a good cheap wine. however there are more finer/better wines at the $100+ category, so by the law of large numbers you'd see a trend. However if you get a good cheaper wine likely 80% would fail to single out the expensive one. Also I will say this, I had one of the best Merlots in Napa and would say it's worth $60-$70 per bottle, the bottle costs around $110, so you'll just pay some more to get your favorite wine. I agree a lot goes into branding and marketing, esp. for the bay area folks, while they do have some of the finest wines in the world I'd say most comparable European wines cost half. For example for Whites you could go to Germany and get really good Rieslings or Gewuerztraminers for 10 Euros or less and the best of the best for 50 Euros or less.
23   HEYYOU   ignore (46)   2019 Nov 24, 3:36pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Anyone that smokes or ever has killer weed in their possession is a felon.
Fuck all of you drug addicts that say you love America & The Constitution.
Fuck all of you drug addicts that criticize Clinton's,Trump,Obama,Bush or the opposing party,hypocrites!
You need to be dealt with by a firing squad.

This pot smoker left you with nothing but your stupidity.
24   Booger   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 24, 4:42pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
Are you insinuating there are not illegal sales of alcohol?


Not enough profits in illegal booze.
25   WookieMan   ignore (5)   2019 Nov 24, 5:41pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Booger says
WookieMan says
Are you insinuating there are not illegal sales of alcohol?


Not enough profits in illegal booze.

Agreed. There is a percentage sold illegally though. This is 100% true. Have no interest in doxxing companies, people and potentially myself on Patnet, but this isn't hearsay knowledge. We don't have to agree at the end of the day, but I know what I know and illegal booze sales for sure happen. I live in IL after all...
26   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 24, 7:07pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

HEYYOU says
killer weed


Tell me more about this "killer weed" @HEYYOU

I'd be interested to find out what it is, given that marijuana has killed a grand total of zero people in all of recorded history.
27   just_dregalicious   ignore (3)   2019 Nov 24, 9:48pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
California


You had me at "California".

Were we not discussing removing prop-13 in another thread?

Just pointing out how this asshoes are about taxing us to death despite, well pretty much any bad outcome.
28   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 25, 7:20am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

for a reader who doesn't want to post:

Patrick: I would change "Continued . . . " to "Greatly increased . . . " in your initial post, more accurate

Not only is the legalization program failing, it is actually hugely increasing the black market and the shipping to non-legal states outside of California, and creating a GIANT California "Marijuana Mafia", like Prohibition "grew" the Mafia back east. Growers are just going nuts now with producing additional pot for illegal markets (as well as the legal markets -- remember Atre trying to cheat illegal growers he apparently bought from to stock his dispensaries? . . . and thought he would not pay -- fatally bad decision) (we posted that on the site a couple weeks back)

these idiot bureaucrats in the California govt are RADICALLY and I mean RADICALLY AND THEN SOME blowing it

hey, I bet the career cops love this California tax too -- guarantees life-time employment and heightened pay!!!!! MORE TAXES, YEEEEEEEAAA WHOOPIE
YES, the UNENDING WAR ON DOPE -- even better than those UNENDING MIDEAST WARS
29   NDrLoR   ignore (0)   2019 Nov 25, 8:59am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

WookieMan says
illegal
Isn't that word always going to be attached in some context to such things as booze, pot and prostitution? None of them reflect favorably on one's character.
30   Ceffer   ignore (4)   2019 Nov 25, 12:56pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
California fucking up legalization with excessive taxes


"California fucking up California with excessive taxes, fees, regulations, penalties, excises, and varied associated non-voter approved grafts"

There, fixed it. Your focus was too narrow.
31   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 26, 7:29am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
Taxes are bad here but the bottles sell for $200 because many idiots are willing to pay these prices to impress.


I heard about this guy who has a crazy accurate palette. He goes to these wine shows, tastes very expensive wine, writes down some notes, then goes to Trader Joe's, and recreates the exact same taste for like $40.
32   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 26, 7:33am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Patrick: I would change "Continued . . . " to "Greatly increased . . . " in your initial post, more accurate


This! The licensing fees alone to go legal are so prohibitive, it's too much of an up front risk, and only the most well known growers can take that leap. The rest have returned to black market.

I grow on a very small scale, so no chance I was going to license. Took me all of a day to sell my stuff, though the price was half what I usually get.

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