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They can’t hide your healthcare prices any longer - Trump


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2019 Nov 18, 8:51pm   1,715 views  54 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

Straight from https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600daily/ :

While Democrats in Congress are busy doing anything they can not to help working Americans under this President, the Trump Administration unveiled a pair of new rules on Friday that will make healthcare prices simpler and clearer than ever before.

“We’re requiring price transparency in healthcare, forcing companies to compete for your business,” President Trump said from the White House. “Our goal was to give patients the knowledge they need about the real price of healthcare services.”

What does that mean for patients? “They’ll be able to check them, compare them, go to different locations—so they can shop for the highest-quality care at the lowest cost.”

The first rule compels hospitals to finally publish their prices online for all to see. For years, these prices were often all but impossible to find, leaving Americans with nasty surprise bills after a medical visit. Now, families will be able to see and compare all of these costs beforehand with the new, easy-to-read formats that will soon be available.

The next rule, newly proposed, will require health insurance providers and group health plans to give cost estimates to enrollees before care is delivered. Like it’s doing with hospitals, the Trump Administration wants to push these companies to make lists of all their pricing information available to the public.

Together, these actions represent the most aggressive steps taken by any President to put healthcare price information in the hands of patients. That’s important not just for honesty and fairness; transparent prices also lead to lower healthcare costs overall.

Powerful interest groups spent years trying to keep these rules from happening. By making the true price and quality of care a closely guarded secret, the industry giants controlled the markets—and your healthcare dollars. When President Trump came to Washington, he promised to do things differently than Beltway career insiders have done for years. “We’re taking on the bureaucrats in more ways than one,” he said Friday.


OMFG if this goes through and health plans are forced to give estimates, that got my vote for Trump right there.

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1   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Nov 18, 9:32pm  

Patrick says
What does that mean for patients? “They’ll be able to check them, compare them, go to different locations—so they can shop for the highest-quality care at the lowest cost.”


1 -You typically don't know what care you need, and
2 - people typically will not try 2-3 hospitals to see what the prices are. If you have an urgent issue, you don't have that luxury.
3 - Once you are there, you take whatever they say, in sequence they tell you it's necessary. You may come from 1 issue, then do something else.
4 - Usually you don't even care, because besides your deductible, it's for the insurance anyway.

The entire idea that competition will do the job of reining in costs is lame from the start.
2   just_passing_through   2019 Nov 18, 9:56pm  

Billing codes were designed to obfuscate what they were for on purpose.
3   Dholliday126   2019 Nov 18, 9:59pm  

Someone will make an aggregator app that will allow you to price out the cheapest options on some stuff which would help. But by and large between not knowing exactly will be done and your physician having restricted access to only a couple hospitals, I think a big impact is limited.

The only thing that will make healthcare cheaper is restricting care.
4   just_passing_through   2019 Nov 18, 9:59pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
people typically will not try 2-3 hospitals to see what the prices are. If you have an urgent issue, you don't have that luxury.


Right. That's why you pay cash for basic office visits or even minor emergency room visits. The neighborhood will know who charges higher fees. That sort of shit leaks out.

Then you get catastrophic insurance for real emergencies.

Pair that with improvements in drug costs and you've got yourself a market and much lower health care expenditures.

Throw in HSA and tax deduction for cat-insurance.

Oh, and none of this - can't insure across state lines bullshit.
5   porkchopXpress   2019 Nov 18, 10:01pm  

But but but, quid pro quo...racism...porn star sex...my hurt feelings
6   just_passing_through   2019 Nov 18, 10:03pm  

And no legal, no docky! Go the fuck home to your shit hole country.
7   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Nov 18, 10:07pm  

The sad reality is that now that we have the healthcare extortion complex, politicians do not want to break it as doing so would lose a lot of jobs, and aren't that many other jobs readily available.
8   mell   2019 Nov 18, 10:14pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
Patrick says
What does that mean for patients? “They’ll be able to check them, compare them, go to different locations—so they can shop for the highest-quality care at the lowest cost.”


1 -You typically don't know what care you need, and
2 - people typically will not try 2-3 hospitals to see what the prices are. If you have an urgent issue, you don't have that luxury.
3 - Once you are there, you take whatever they say, in sequence they tell you it's necessary. You may come from 1 issue, then do something else.
4 - Usually you don't even care, because besides your deductible, it's for the insurance anyway.

The entire idea that competition will do the job of reining in costs is lame from the start.


Not true, esp. not in the US. Unless you're a docile sheep. MDs will over recommend most things, esp. surgery. I've shopped around every one of those less than a handful of times where they recommended surgical treatment or anesthesia. Gastroscopy? Save 1000s by declining anesthesia plus nobody will have to pick you up and you're in and out in no time. MD tells you you need surgery? Find a specialist for a 2nd opinion and almost always you can manage and better it with steady care and no surgery. This will be huge if Trump enacts this as it is difficult today to get straight answers about pricing and they wlll try to obfuscate as much as they can. Go Trump!
9   mell   2019 Nov 18, 10:16pm  

Only time you can't and shouldn't shop is during a life threatening emergency. And there's catastrophical insurance for that.
10   marcus   2019 Nov 18, 10:18pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
The entire idea that competition will do the job of reining in costs is lame from the start.


Agreed. Patrick has always been big on this and I've never comprehended it. Sure there should be transparency, but the people aren't shopping. Their insurance companies are sort of, but not by posted rates to the public.

If most people were paying out of pocket, then I can see competition by posting prices to the public would work. But sas it stands, if you have insurance through your employer, it's paid for as long as you go to the right doctors.
11   GNL   2019 Nov 18, 10:32pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
The entire idea that competition will do the job of reining in costs is lame from the start.

I gotta say, that sounds batshit crazy.
12   mell   2019 Nov 18, 10:36pm  

marcus says
Heraclitusstudent says
The entire idea that competition will do the job of reining in costs is lame from the start.


Agreed. Patrick has always been big on this and I've never comprehended it. Sure there should be transparency, but the people aren't shopping. Their insurance companies are sort of, but not by posted rates to the public.

If most people were paying out of pocket, then I can see competition by posting prices to the public would work. But sas it stands, if yu have insurance through your employer, it's paid for as long as you go to the right doctors.


That's nonsense. Most plans have deductibles and percentages, you pay for outpatient surgery or hospital stay, let alone for much more with HSAs. Even with a premier plan the total amount of the bill matters for many procedures/diagnostics and hospital stays and you can easily save a grand even if you're 90% covered. Maybe more people need to do it but that's again a result of the ongoing obfuscation of medical pricing. A friend of mine has premier insurance and ended up paying cash for a few procedures at Stanford as they gave him a 90% discount just for not having to deal with the insurances and it was cheaper in the end than being 70%-80% covered in a bill that's more than 10x than the cash price he was quoted after asking for direct cash payment discounts.
13   Chiromancer   2019 Nov 18, 11:14pm  

Competition and price transparency can work in some aspects of health care, such as certain elective procedures or dentistry. But for most of the big items the ones that really drive costs it will have very minimal impact. People are too stupid and generally ignorant as to their options. If they have options. Many smaller cities have single hospitals if any. Of course emergency procedures it wont work at all. I think it fine to do this but not a major factor in lowering costs.
14   ignoreme   2019 Nov 19, 3:39am  

Ya markets don’t work! Remember that Trump grabbed someone’s pussy one time so nothing he does can be good. Therefore markets cannot work. IM RIGHT!
15   Booger   2019 Nov 19, 4:37am  

marcus says
I've never comprehended it.


That's because you have the taxpayers picking up your tab with your gold plated government plan. The rest of us have high deductible plans that require us to spend 3K-12K before insurance even kicks in and even then we are paying 30% of the rather expensive negotiated rate after that. If we had zero or $10 copays like government workers do, then we wouldn't care about the price either.

Yes, I shop around for medical services. That is why I love and recommend CVS minute clinic, which has a price list on its webpage.
16   Booger   2019 Nov 19, 4:39am  

marcus says
it's paid for as long as you go to the right doctors.


Nope. Research something called a high deductible plan. It's your only choice at most private employers.
17   marcus   2019 Nov 19, 6:54am  

:
Booger says
we wouldn't care about the price either.


I didn't say I don't care about price. Actually I think our healthcare system is broken and I know that some form of nationalized health care is inevitable. With single payer, the demand side of the equation is one entity who can say "this is what we pay for that procedure, period."

Booger says
Research something called a high deductible plan. It's your only choice at most private employers.


I know what it is, I I had it for many years. You still go to doctors in your network though, and then once you've spent your deductible - things are covered above that (minus copays).
18   Y   2019 Nov 19, 7:10am  

I'm fairly certain God has no need for sex...
Patrick says
OMFG if this goes through and health plans are forced to give estimates, that got my vote for Trump right there.
19   Patrick   2019 Nov 19, 7:14am  

Market forces have been known to restrain prices in many fields. Medical is just one more.
20   Y   2019 Nov 19, 7:16am  

Also remember the ones that brag about grabbing pussy most likely didn't .
ignoreme says
Remember that Trump grabbed someone’s pussy one time so nothing he does can be good.
21   Patrick   2019 Nov 19, 7:44am  

"When you're a star they let you do it."

Truer words were never spoken.
22   Booger   2019 Nov 19, 7:48am  

marcus says
You still go to doctors in your network though, and then once you've spent your deductible - things are covered above that (minus copays).


You know that the co-pay is like 30% not $10 don't you?
23   Chiromancer   2019 Nov 19, 8:32am  

I think it quite clear that a strictly free market approach for healthcare will not work unless you wish to live in a society that lets people in the bottom tiers financially and those who are dreadfully sick suffer and die. Cool if that is where you want to go. Fine and dandy when you are a young, wealthy and healthy libertarian master of the universe. But remember Ayn Rand capitulated to reality and took Medicare.
24   Patrick   2019 Nov 19, 8:42am  

How much are you willing to pay for medical care for the poor?

Infinity? Because without some market discipline or medical price regulation that's where it's going.

I do agree that we need some affordable national health insurance plan. But to be affordable, it simply cannot pay for the most expensive treatments.
25   RWSGFY   2019 Nov 19, 8:53am  

Booger says
marcus says
You still go to doctors in your network though, and then once you've spent your deductible - things are covered above that (minus copays).


You know that the co-pay is like 30% not $10 don't you?


He doesn't.
26   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2019 Nov 19, 9:24am  

It’s great, it’ll make billing real, not made up. At least harder for hospitals to make up charges.

I’ve seen charges vary by patient and insurance for same services.
27   Chiromancer   2019 Nov 19, 9:37am  

Liberal_in_blackface says
You know that the co-pay is like 30% not $10 don't you?


Dont know what policy you have but co pays on mine are not % they are dollar amounts based on the procedures. And there is an out of pocket max per year (which mine is 6400 I believe) after which all costs are covered. I have Kaiser. The out of pocket max is probably the most important number that nobody looks at, as it is the limitation between you and financial ruin.
28   mell   2019 Nov 19, 9:53am  

Chiromancer says
I think it quite clear that a strictly free market approach for healthcare will not work unless you wish to live in a society that lets people in the bottom tiers financially and those who are dreadfully sick suffer and die. Cool if that is where you want to go. Fine and dandy when you are a young, wealthy and healthy libertarian master of the universe. But remember Ayn Rand capitulated to reality and took Medicare.


Patrick says
How much are you willing to pay for medical care for the poor?

Infinity? Because without some market discipline or medical price regulation that's where it's going.

I do agree that we need some affordable national health insurance plan. But to be affordable, it simply cannot pay for the most expensive treatments.


There were two interesting articles on that by Karl Denninger:

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=237391 (how stents and bypasses don't work better than intensive drug treatment)

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=237317 (treatment for cystic fibrosis costs 311K per year)
29   theoakman   2019 Nov 19, 10:00am  

Heraclitusstudent says
Patrick says
What does that mean for patients? “They’ll be able to check them, compare them, go to different locations—so they can shop for the highest-quality care at the lowest cost.”


1 -You typically don't know what care you need, and
2 - people typically will not try 2-3 hospitals to see what the prices are. If you have an urgent issue, you don't have that luxury.
3 - Once you are there, you take whatever they say, in sequence they tell you it's necessary. You may come from 1 issue, then do something else.
4 - Usually you don't even care, because besides your deductible, it's for the insurance anyway.

The entire idea that competition will do the job of reining in costs is lame from the start.


So, can you come up with a reason why this shouldn't be done?
30   Chiromancer   2019 Nov 19, 10:05am  

Patrick says
Infinity? Because without some market discipline or medical price regulation that's where it's going


Yep, I agree, I think we need both.
31   mell   2019 Nov 19, 10:14am  

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says
This makes perfect sense.

Subscribers to insurance programs who pay premiums with set and known pre-paid prices are going to drive around bleeding and barphing and losing consciousness from hospital to hospital dickering with administrators to save money on costs for their insurance companies that they'll never ever realize in pocket.

DUH!

DOI!

DONNIE! MAKE! MOO!


Don't let your hate for orange man blind you - this is a great step into the right direction. Patients with an immediate emergency will still go directly to the nearest emergency room. the majority of procedures and tests are non-emergency.
32   Onvacation   2019 Nov 19, 2:12pm  

HEYYOU says
bucket list:
1 - Be a failure.
2 - Be a loser.

Just sharing for all those that ignore you.
33   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Nov 19, 2:44pm  

Patrick says
Market forces have been known to restrain prices in many fields. Medical is just one more.


Free Markets smash down the prices of drugs for sure.

I live it.

My Lisinopril meds are $15 co-pays in the US with gold-plated employer provided insurance insurance, which is supposedly the same price as having one of those drug store cards.

Same drug here in South America are $10, cash total, with no insurance involved.
34   Shaman   2019 Nov 19, 3:29pm  

Heraclitusstudent says
Patrick says
What does that mean for patients? “They’ll be able to check them, compare them, go to different locations—so they can shop for the highest-quality care at the lowest cost.”


1 -You typically don't know what care you need, and
2 - people typically will not try 2-3 hospitals to see what the prices are. If you have an urgent issue, you don't have that luxury.
3 - Once you are there, you take whatever they say, in sequence they tell you it's necessary. You may come from 1 issue, then do something else.
4 - Usually you don't even care, because besides your deductible, it's for the insurance anyway.

The entire idea that competition will do the job of reining in costs is lame from the start.


All of that might be true, but only for emergency care. Most surgeries and procedures are scheduled weeks in advance.
Example: say you are a pregnant woman without insurance who knows she will need to have a c section. This would allow you to shop hospitals to find the best deal rather than just go to a random one and pray the bill is affordable.
35   Shaman   2019 Nov 19, 3:30pm  

Onvacation says
HEYYOU says
bucket list:
1 - Be a failure.
2 - Be a loser.

Just sharing for all those that ignore you.


Wish you wouldn’t. I have that idiot on ignore for a very good reason!
36   ignoreme   2019 Nov 19, 3:39pm  

NoCoupForYou says
Same drug here in South America are $10, cash total, with no insurance involved.


Now if Trump just keeps his other campaign promise and let’s people buy drugs across borders medical costs will plummet.

Can’t wait for all the articles from the whiny corporate owned liberal rags about how price transparency and free markets is a bad thing because orange man bad.

Seriously, this thread is a great test. If you come to this thread and type anything negative about this policy change, you objectively have TDS.
37   ignoreme   2019 Nov 19, 3:41pm  

Shaman says
Example: say you are a pregnant woman without insurance who knows she will need to have a c section. This would allow you to shop hospitals to find the best deal rather than just go to a random one and pray the bill is affordable.


Careful you are making too much sense. Also, liberals don’t care about this cause they only need abortions which is already tax payer funded.
38   mell   2019 Nov 19, 3:50pm  

Most able bodied males and females who don't suffer from panic attacks or excessive gag reflex don't need any sedation for a gastroscopy. Yet 99% of those are done with sedation, adding a few k to the bill every time. Anesthesiologists are among the most expensive, as there is always risk involved. Start giving discounts for saving money in this excessive racket.

ignoreme says
Shaman says
Example: say you are a pregnant woman without insurance who knows she will need to have a c section. This would allow you to shop hospitals to find the best deal rather than just go to a random one and pray the bill is affordable.


Careful you are making too much sense. Also, liberals don’t care about this cause they only need abortions which is already tax payer funded.


Right, abortions should be completely defunded, saves a lot of money. WTF if you want to kill your unborn at the minimum pay for it, don't make others pay for your moral hazard.
39   Y   2019 Nov 19, 4:09pm  

LIbfucks are the only known political group that demand no sedation for routine colonoscopy...

mell says
Most able bodied males and females who don't suffer from panic attacks or excessive gag reflex don't need any sedation for a gastroscopy.
40   Booger   2019 Nov 19, 4:23pm  

mell says
Right, abortions should be completely defunded, saves a lot of money. WTF if you want to kill your unborn at the minimum pay for it, don't make others pay for your moral hazard.


Other optional stuff shouldn't be covered either. Childbirth being high on my list of optional things.

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