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46   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 4, 4:48am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
Where as the only racism you will admit on the right is KKK. Give me a break.


Racism is not a driving factor in rightwing political circles. Your point about the wall above is noted, we just disagree.

You seem to think the way trump sold the wall was via racism, therefore clinton/obama and I suppose even bush were NOT racist for wanting boarder security. Somehow trump actually getting it done is racism in action though. Sorry I dont agree w your logic, but ok.

Also, I do see racism as well as classism, bigotry, misandry to all be openly accepted political objectives from the left. When "Its ok to be white" it widely reported as racist and journalists cant write stories about the dangers of cutting off your dong = nazi, we have a problem!

You display the same problem, albeit much less extreme, via grouping Trump supporters in w racists. It is total and complete bigotry on display, unchecked will continue to erode our society.

Bogotry from the left must be stopped, imho. Therefore for the first time in mylife, I will vote for an R in 2020.
47   marcus   ignore (11)   2019 Nov 4, 6:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

CBOEtrader says
Somehow trump actually getting it done is racism in action though.


Actually Trump has gotten far less done on border security than Obama. Trump just managed to get elected by getting you and the other right wingers to believe there is an invasion and only he could fix it.

I've put the stats up probably a dozen times, but you don't want to know.









CBOEtrader says
Therefore for the first time in mylife, I will vote for an R in 2020.



Your lord works in mysterious ways.
48   WookieMan   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 4, 6:46am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
I've put the stats up probably a dozen times, but you don't want to know.

Stats mean dick without context. Cool, apprehensions are down when Trump took over. Number of border agents as well. Great. Great info. Is the number of people entering and STAYING here higher or lower? That's the only stat that matters. Are more illegals being removed as well? I don't know, but these tables and graphs are misleading if the point is overall reduced illegal immigration. These mean nothing to the conversation.

If we can reduce government pensioners from the payroll AND reduce the number of illegals I'd say that's an overall win. Sucks for the BP agents, but many more will likely benefit at the cost of a few. They can also transition into other careers easier than most. Not sure your stats are doing what you think they are without stats to show illegal immigration itself is INCREASING under Trump. These mean nothing otherwise.
49   marcus   ignore (11)   2019 Nov 4, 7:01am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

:

Your not being willing to comprehend them, is vastly different than them having no meaning.

The stats are also out there about the number of illegal aliens actually decreasing over the same period. THat is, more leaving than coming in.

Trump saying he was going to basically lock the door probably caused a major uptick.
50   mostly_reader   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 4, 7:47am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

> marcus

I'll join the chorus of those who invite you to provide examples of racism on the right that are tolerated by moderate rights. You made a statement, you've been asked for examples, and so far it's been crickets.

While at it. You also stated that, on the contrary, you are willing to recognize the identity politics and sjw nonsense on the left. Are there examples of it on this board?
51   mell   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 4, 8:26am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

CBOEtrader says
Bogotry from the left must be stopped, imho. Therefore for the first time in mylife, I will vote for an R in 2020.


Agreed. I'd go even further and call it self-preservation for the family. There's no reason for any Caucasian or Asian (man or woman), or any straight male or any Christian to vote Democrat.
52   Shaman   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 4, 8:52am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
will always know in my heart of hearts, that a douchebag of Trumps magnitude could never have been elected (or tolerated since being elected) if not for the subtle racism and also not so subtle ("we're being invaded" even though border security was massively increased in the Obama era), not even running against Hillary.

And I will go a step further saying that the kind of racism I see, some subtle, and much not so subtle, is on display very regularly on this forum.


This forum is free speech so yah we have racist memes being posted now and then. Patrick refuses to censor based on content so that’s where things are. Some like zzyyz may harbor deep animosity towards minorities especially blacks. I don’t have those same feelings toward blacks people, but then again I don’t live in Baltimore where I’d be exposed daily to the worst black people in America.
Hell, my worst enemies so far have been Croatians, those giant assholes of the near East, white as you can be, with bully personalities and extreme racists to boot.
I can’t even deal with those people.
I guess there are always going to be groups that fit a negative stereotype well enough to make generalizations fairly accurate. Doesn’t mean that doing so is right, but it IS HUMAN. Our brains are set to find and exploit patterns, in an attempt to deal with situations where we find ourselves faced with choices and incomplete information. Which are most of our choices. We have to draw on past experiences to inform our choices, since not much is known about most situations we face. Incomplete or little information is the normal situation for human decision process. You can’t know it all, and when it comes to people you can’t know even a significant fraction of the relevant information.

So we use stereotypes where they’ve seemed appropriate. These can range from behavioral (that kid seems autistic) to religious (that guy is Muslim, don’t offer him a sausage) to cultural (she’s Vietnamese, which explains why she’s chasing her kids around the playground with a bowl of rice and a spoon) to (sadly) ethnic.
53   WookieMan   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 4, 9:57am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
Your not being willing to comprehend them, is vastly different than them having no meaning.

I presume you know what fiscal years are, right? DHS (and BP) only has data on FY17 on their site (basically what you posted). Executive orders can only do so much in a little over 9 months, with a budget you didn't approve as POTUS. Then account for a POTUS that had to run through all sorts of bullshit to get people just approved to help run the government. You'd defend Obama (and so would I) if the same occurred to him, as hostile as congress was towards Trump.

Once the FY18 data comes out, then you can start throwing shade at him over immigration and illegals. Otherwise the condescending tone can hold off until there are ACTUAL stats to bash Trump on regarding this topic. I understand stats, but there are no 100% attributable stats to Trump that are available at this time. Taking months to even get a staff approved (where needed) really doesn't help and I think even you can acknowledge that. This isn't a defense, just seeing the reality of the situation with no pony in the race.
54   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 4, 11:43am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

This is what a cult is:
55   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 4, 11:47am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

marcus says
CBOEtrader says
Somehow trump actually getting it done is racism in action though.


Actually Trump has gotten far less done on border security than Obama.


You made the point that somehow Trumps boarder protection is racist, then post about how Obama deported more that Trump.

Are you arguing w yourself?

The question to you: show us racism. Is the wall, etc... racist?

You say it is, yet somehow Obama isnt racist for being better at the thing you are calling racist.

Explain.
56   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 4, 11:50am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

@Heraclitusstudent you seem to be conflating people who annoy you with a political position.

Are there ANY of these so-called "woke" people here? No. Why not if that is really what the left side of the spectrum is made of?

Are there any progressives here? Yes, people who want to regulate capitalism for the benefit of the majority and put an end to the rendering of America to fewer and fewer families who prefer to remain anonymous and out of reach.
57   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 4, 12:29pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Jazz,
Who is calling an entire half of the country "nazi"?
That by itself is a bit extremist, is it not?
58   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 4, 12:43pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Heraclitusstudent says
"nazi"?
Half the country?

Which half?

Also where is Bernie Sanders speeches about microaggression and LGTBQ pronouns?

I remember a huge attack against Obama as Hitler for ACA mandate, maybe other beefs as well.
59   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 4, 12:46pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Heraclitusstudent says
Who is calling an entire half of the country "nazi"?
Are you asking me for my synopsis of the OP? Is that what you mean by "calling an entire half of the country "nazi"?"

The OP is not such a difficult read for someone who isn't deliberately trying to warp the message into hysteria.

If you are trying to do that then the Russians have already won and we are dead and ass raped! LOL
60   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 4, 1:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz_music says
Half the country?

Which half?

The half that's right wing. The close to half that voted for Trump, and as such could be wearing these hats.

Yeah sure I'm just going by the title.
The title is hysteric.
61   ignoreme   ignore (3)   2019 Nov 4, 7:27pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I know that Marcus will never answer the question but I’ll pretend like he gave “the wall” as a racist policy that mainstream republicans support.

1. There’s nothing racist with supporting strong borders. You don’t have to take my word for it. Just look at the chart Marcus handily posted with the number of deportations under Obama and the great point he made that Obama actually deported more people them Trump. If support of strong borders is racist, then Obama (and his supporters) are actually more racist then Trump.

2. But maybe it’s not the policy, maybe it’s the means? Sure, round people up, that’s fine, lock them in cages, that’s cool, but a wall to keep them out in the first place? Racist! Let’s ignore that Obama built walls too, we already proved that he (and all people that voted for him using the logic of this thread) is racist. Again, Marcus helps us out, check out the many hilarious posts he made about how easy it is to climb over a wall with a ladder! How is an ineffective barrier racist? Wouldn’t the Democrats that want to spend money on high tech, more effective border control measures be more racist? Oh, yeah that would... shoot.

(Side note, I would love to see you Marcus climb over a 40ft wall. If you’re willing make some easy money I’m sure we could get a nice fund going here to pay you to do it and take a video)

3. Maybe Wall is just a dog whistle. Sure, it’s not racist in itself, but a lot of racists like it. So what? We can’t support a policy just because assholes also support the same? Fine. Stalin was for socialized medicine so I guess we can’t have that either.

And this just goes to your comment Marcus:

“ I will always know in my heart of hearts, that a douchebag of Trumps magnitude could never have been elected (or tolerated since being elected) if not for the subtle racism and also not so subtle”

You know in your heart?!?!? At least you are admitting you have no actual evidence, it’s just a feeling you have that Trump and his supporters are racist.

Here’s what it boils down to. When people call Trump supporters racist it’s just a code for saying they aren’t human. People do this because they like to live in little bubbles where they like to imagine that everyone else has the same values that they have.

Liberals especially like to do this and you see it with the whole “don’t be friends with, associate, date, talk to, etc Trump supporters” movement. It’s also why they support illegal immigration, I guess I would too if I didn’t actually know illegals.

You live in a bubble Marcus. You live in a different world with different concerns and values then most Trump supporters. That’s fine. But dehumanizing an entire group because you don’t understand them and don’t care too? That’s fucking racist.
62   BayArea   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 4, 8:12pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

CBOEtrader says
marcus says
CBOEtrader says
Somehow trump actually getting it done is racism in action though.


Actually Trump has gotten far less done on border security than Obama.


You made the point that somehow Trumps boarder protection is racist, then post about how Obama deported more that Trump.

Are you arguing w yourself?

The question to you: show us racism. Is the wall, etc... racist?

You say it is, yet somehow Obama isnt racist for being better at the thing you are calling racist.

Explain.


Best thing Marco can do is to just let it go and avoid digging himself deeper by posting further, ouch
63   Bd6r   ignore (1)   2019 Nov 4, 8:41pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Heraclitusstudent says
Jazz,
Who is calling an entire half of the country "nazi"?
That by itself is a bit extremist, is it not?

FUCKIN' OUCH
64   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2019 Nov 5, 8:03am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

ignoreme says
Liberals especially like to do this and you see it with the whole “don’t be friends with, associate, date, talk to, etc Trump supporters” movement. It’s also why they support illegal immigration, I guess I would too if I didn’t actually know illegals.

You live in a bubble Marcus. You live in a different world with different concerns and values then most Trump supporters. That’s fine. But dehumanizing an entire group because you don’t understand them and don’t care too? That’s fucking racist


It’s worse. I’ve repeatedly made the point that Marcus doesn’t know any of these so called racists. When really pressed he will point to memes posted here which is preposterous as he clearly doesn’t understand trolling despite being a troll at times himself and actually has no clue whatsoever as to the actual race of anyone posting here.

Essentially he rallies against self created caricatures. Which is pretty looney if you ask me.
65   mell   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 5, 8:12am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Agreed nobody on the left knows any actual Nazis or racists beyond the innate natural racism, when I point that out to my leftoid friends they squeal and sometimes I can get them riled up enough to turn on me. Usually they calm down and apologize quickly. I don't know what's up with the desire to see racists and nazis everywhere, reminds me of clustered hysteria.
66   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 5, 4:16pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

There really is no excuse to miss the author of the OPs point. He led off with this simple statement below and simply offered examples afterward.

that symbol represents a how the Trump cultists seem to relish the way they upset people.

Fox News’ Laura Ingraham lamented how wearing one of Trump’s red “Make America Great Again” hats was now “basically considered a hate crime.” (that’s about right)

A San Mateo restaurant owner says customers will not be served if they are wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat. Kenji Lopez-Alt of Wursthall Restaurant said that it would be the “same as if you come in wearing a swastika, white hood, or any other symbol of intolerance and hate.” (that pretty much says it)


Laura Ingraham is so full of bullshit. LOL

The OP is worth the read for sure.
67   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 5, 4:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Trump harnessed sentiments of white male victimhood that exist but had no political vehicle previously. Because as wronged as white Christian men feel by Affirmative Action effects these men still enjoy dominance in their world, just not as much dominance.

It was too easy for Trump, the quintessential grifter with a life long supply of trust fund backstop, to exploit the hatred of “the other” and to fan those flames like no one ever before him.

The concessions that must be made to satisfy the law are not always optimal with respect to fairness in the workplace and have been shown to create certain roles and people who are mainly there to show compliance to laws, as opposed to performing a function commensurate with their pay scale. ... so as to disturb the dominant team dynamics as little as possible.

Yeah. That happens. That is a problem to fix.
68   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 5, 5:17pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

White power!

Walking by a California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation building in downtown Sacramento, people noticed a Nazi flag could be seen through a window. Below the flag, which was hung on a wall, were a pair of SS bolts. Michael Johnson was one of those people who noticed the hate symbols through the window of this government-owned building. He recorded a video and uploaded it to Imgur, where it quickly went viral.

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2019/10/30/1896121/-Viral-video-of-Nazi-flag-hanging-in-corrections-department-window-stirs-internal-investigation?detail=emailLL
69   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 5, 5:28pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

It’s the victimhood olympics.

The boss gets to cry the blues all day long , he wins.

So privilege wins the victimhood contest, the moral high ground.

Funny game really.

Just make plans to get that next gig in a couple years somewhere else unless you want to shive everyone to stay on.
70   FuckTheMainstreamMedia   ignore (7)   2019 Nov 5, 5:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz_music says
It’s the victimhood olympics.

The boss gets to cry the blues all day long , he wins.

So privilege wins the victimhood contest, the moral high ground.

Funny game really.

Just make plans to get that next gig in a couple years somewhere else unless you want to shive everyone to stay on.


WAT?!?!?!?
71   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 5, 5:36pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz_music says

Fox News’ Laura Ingraham lamented how wearing one of Trump’s red “Make America Great Again” hats was now “basically considered a hate crime.” (that’s about right)

A San Mateo restaurant owner says customers will not be served if they are wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat.


The idea "Make America Great Again" upsets some people, and so it means its meant to hurt them, so it is a hate crime.
Nice...
72   Tenpoundbass   ignore (16)   2019 Nov 5, 5:43pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

People hurt by patriotism to one's own country. Don't deserve to wander free in that Country.
73   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 5, 5:48pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Heraclitusstudent says
so it is a hate crime.
Nice...
Why pull that out of the OP ignoring the examples immediately given?

Do you want to say that there is no connection between hate crimes and MAGA hats?
74   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 5, 5:51pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz_music says
upsets some people,
Do you want to say that the OP is connecting “ upsets some people” only with hate crime?

Come on, you know better. The read is short and direct.
75   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 5, 5:54pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

BayArea says
CBOEtrader says
marcus says
CBOEtrader says
Somehow trump actually getting it done is racism in action though.


Actually Trump has gotten far less done on border security than Obama.


You made the point that somehow Trumps boarder protection is racist, then post about how Obama deported more that Trump.

Are you arguing w yourself?

The question to you: show us racism. Is the wall, etc... racist?

You say it is, yet somehow Obama isnt racist for being better at the thing you are calling racist.

Explain.


Best thing Marco can do is to just let it go and avoid digging himself deeper by posting further, ouch


I'm expecting him to explain that he meant something different than what I heard (hopefully).

It is odd how the left sees the right as a group of KKK members, whereas the right just sees themselves as freedom fighters.

It's an amazing gap of cognitive dissonance.

I'm VERY curious how a "liberal" can judge another as a 'racist' while still calling himself a liberal.

Liberals are supposed to focus inwards and not judge others. I guess that's an old mentality.
76   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 5, 5:58pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Anyway Trump clearly stands for reawakening of “White power” as a crusade for some mythic and lost greatness. He’s always conjuring some always vague presumed vision of meritocracy for his mob audience as red meat.
77   WookieMan   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 5, 5:59pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

Stop responding people....
78   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 5, 6:04pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz_music says
Anyway Trump clearly stands for reawakening of “White power” as a crusade for some mythic and lost greatness. He’s always conjuring some always vague presumed vision of meritocracy for his mob audience as red meat.


Lol. Really?
WookieMan says
Stop responding people....


Yup.
79   Shaman   ignore (2)   2019 Nov 5, 6:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz_music says
White power” as a crusade for some mythic and lost greatness


What’s lost about it? White people still rule the civilized world that their ancestors built. Every other color of people seem to be clamoring to get in. Seems like white greatness continues unabated, regardless of detractors.
80   Tenpoundbass   ignore (16)   2019 Nov 5, 6:33pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

I think the top of this chart gets it wrong, well so does the bottom. But the top has the next step after Progressive, as Militant. While calling the corresponding side Far right.
The Communist needs to go where the Militant is, and the Militant goes where it says Commie and Nazi. As Nazis are Left wing Socialists, that dressed nice, and had rigid city ordinances, and demanded everyone drives the same Green Car, and wear matching outfits. Nazi's are Liberal loons.

The next step after Far Right is Militant. Just like any extremist. Politics is more sophisticated than that these days. You have to be intellectually honest.
You can't hide your shit, your neighbors garden.


Heraclitusstudent says
81   HeadSet   ignore (3)   2019 Nov 5, 7:09pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

As Nazis are Left wing Socialists,

Absolutely correct. Maybe 80 years in the future when late term abortion falls severely out of favor, the Dems will try to say that abortionists were "Right Wing," as well.
82   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 5, 9:36pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

HeadSet says
abortionists
Abortion is not an “ism.”

You are trumping up boogie men, and enemies to vanquish in the name of the god that you worship not.

Nazis, you’re dreaming differences that don’t exist. Hitler’s Nazis, America’s pathetic Nazis were after the same dream of mythical lost greatness and SUPREMACY.
83   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 6, 12:14pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/21/man-maga-hat-arrested-spraying-protesters-bear-spray/4051907002/

Another cowardly example of MAGA hat violence.

And then they cry because people don't like them.
84   mell   ignore (6)   2019 Nov 6, 12:17pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

jazz_music says
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/21/man-maga-hat-arrested-spraying-protesters-bear-spray/4051907002/

Another cowardly example of MAGA hat violence.

And then they cry because people don't like them.


No need to double or triple post just because the attacks by the left outnumber the attacks of the right by a huge margin.
85   jazz_music   ignore (14)   2019 Nov 6, 12:18pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      

mell says
No need to double or triple post just because the attacks by the left outnumber the attacks of the right by a huge margin.
Triggered man

Yeah, that could be a catchy handle!

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