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Solar and Wind Power So Cheap They’re Outgrowing Subsidies


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2019 Sep 19, 7:42am   1,640 views  30 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-09-19/solar-and-wind-power-so-cheap-they-re-outgrowing-subsidies

For years, wind and solar power were derided as boondoggles. They were too expensive, the argument went, to build without government handouts.

Today, renewable energy is so cheap that the handouts they once needed are disappearing.

On sun-drenched fields across Spain and Italy, developers are building solar farms without subsidies or tax-breaks, betting they can profit without them. In China, the government plans to stop financially supporting new wind farms. And in the U.S., developers are signing shorter sales contracts, opting to depend on competitive markets for revenue once the agreements expire.

The developments have profound implications for the push to phase out fossil fuels and slow the onset of climate change. Electricity generation and heating account for 25% of global greenhouse gases. As wind and solar demonstrate they can compete on their own against coal- and natural gas-fired plants, the economic and political arguments in favor of carbon-free power become harder and harder to refute.

“The training wheels are off,” said Joe Osha, an equity analyst at JMP Securities. “Prices have declined enough for both solar and wind that there’s a path toward continued deployment in a post-subsidy world.”


This is excellent news, a continuation of the inevitable trend toward solar. This will free us from dependence on violent Islamic regimes for oil and is much better for the environment as well.

The only problem is batteries or some other way of cheaply storying power at night, but that is being solved as well.

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1   Onvacation   2019 Sep 19, 8:17am  

Patrick says
Electricity generation and heating account for 25% of global greenhouse gases.

You mean manmade co2, which is a small percentage of natural co2 which is a very small percentage of greenhouse gasses, water vapor being the biggest.

But cheap solar is good.
2   Y   2019 Sep 19, 8:36am  

Once their oil revenue disappears, where is their income gonna come from?
The middle east could become a worse war zone than it already is as countries fight for whatever scarce resources are there.
Emigration could rise dramatically as people try to escape the inevitable hellhole.
Europe would be overwhelmed...

Patrick says
This will free us from dependence on violent Islamic regimes for oil
3   RWSGFY   2019 Sep 19, 8:48am  

BlueSardine says
Once their oil revenue disappears, where is their income gonna come from?


They have shitload of sun and cheap empty land. They will build solar farms.

What are the fucking Russians going to do when oil and gas are not the hens laying golden eggs anymore, that is the question.
4   NuttBoxer   2019 Sep 19, 9:02am  

There's plenty of profit to be had from solar in Arizona.
5   Booger   2019 Sep 19, 9:22am  

BlueSardine says
The middle east could become a worse war zone than it already is as countries fight for whatever scarce resources are there.


They will go back to throwing rocks at each other, since they won't be able to afford modern weapons.
6   KgK one   2019 Sep 19, 10:18am  

Was thinking about buying 2-3 kw solar system and running heating n cooling , and tv on it. Become independent of grid.

Anyone set one up themselves. Any resources for diy
7   WookieMan   2019 Sep 19, 10:32am  

BlueSardine says
Once their oil revenue disappears, where is their income gonna come from?


Who cares? No one really does. It's all about resources. Let them figure that out and let's get the fuck out of there. Let them go back, err I mean stay in the middle ages. They don't give two shits about us.
8   WookieMan   2019 Sep 19, 10:34am  

BlueSardine says
Europe would be overwhelmed...


Fuck Europe too. Them and their god damn world wars and now we're the fucking bad guys on the back end of it cleaning their shit up? Aside from Vietnam and the Middle East, history will be on our side as the good guys 500 years from now.
9   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Sep 19, 10:45am  

WookieMan says
Fuck Europe too. Them and their god damn world wars and now we're the fucking bad guys on the back end of it cleaning their shit up? Aside from Vietnam and the Middle East, history will be on our side as the good guys 500 years from now.


The Europeans, who had a bloody war every 20-30 years like clockwork, refuse to accept the fact that US Military dominance mostly kept them from fighting since 1945.

The ONE conflict the EU was responsible for, it failed at, without asking for US help: Yugoslavia.

Now the EU and ESA are all butthurt over Ariane 5 - it simply cannot complete with SpaceX. Prices per satellite launch are almost double - after EU/French Subsidies from $135M to $100M. SpaceX is around $60M.
10   Y   2019 Sep 19, 10:46am  

We might after calculating possible side effects felt here.
WookieMan says
Who cares
11   Y   2019 Sep 19, 10:48am  

An overwhelmed europe turns muslim under sharia, with intercontinental nukes.
Something we have to prevent at all costs if you value your way of life here.
WookieMan says
BlueSardine says
Europe would be overwhelmed...


Fuck Europe too. Them and their god damn world wars and now we're the fucking bad guys on the back end of it cleaning their shit up? Aside from Vietnam and the Middle East, history will be on our side as the good guys 500 years from now.
12   Y   2019 Sep 19, 10:49am  

Why do you think we have military presence all over the world.
13   Y   2019 Sep 19, 10:50am  

Neville? Sticking your head in the sand again?
14   Y   2019 Sep 19, 10:52am  

Its not your father's ww2 scenario all over again.
We are all a moments breath away from extinction
15   WookieMan   2019 Sep 19, 11:16am  

BlueSardine says
An overwhelmed europe turns muslim under sharia, with intercontinental nukes.
Something we have to prevent at all costs if you value your way of life here.


When I say fuck Europe, I don't mean ignore it. They just need to understand they've fucked up and our wallet is closed. They need to pull their big boy pants up and start taking care of shit. Ultimately you're probably right though and we'll have to prevent them from committing national/continental suicide by Islam.

If and/or when that happens, we need repayment in some form when we bail their assess out. For some reason we can move a massive military around the world, but Europe can't even get a ground force or legislation to stop this retardation?
16   WookieMan   2019 Sep 19, 11:29am  

HEYYOU says
WookieMan says
Aside from Vietnam and the Middle East,


Did you forget about Afghanistan,Iraq,Libya & and other military adventures?


I think that's covered under the bolded.....

HEYYOU says
Fuck Americans! They may face the reality of the next WW in their front yard.


And...... No. There would have to be an actual military force that could attack us here, that's not possible. Nuke away, but we're all dead then. Given our location, anyone surviving from the fallout in the US has a much more strategic back up plan. We're all doomed to meet the maker at some point, not sure the concern over it being nukes or natural causes.
17   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2019 Sep 19, 11:33am  

Patrick says
This is excellent news, a continuation of the inevitable trend toward solar. This will free us from dependence on violent Islamic regimes for oil and is much better for the environment as well.


Honestly I don't see solar as something that'll be great. Nuclear can provide enough energy. Solar is just too little, and too unpredictable, not at night and so forth. It's fine for some residential uses, but application is very limited unless it gets much better.
18   SunnyvaleCA   2019 Sep 19, 1:24pm  

WookieMan says
Nuke away, but we're all dead then.

That would be just fine with the 9/11 attackers.
19   Onvacation   2019 Sep 19, 1:31pm  

FortWayneIndiana says
It's fine for some residential uses, but application is very limited unless it gets much better.

Batteries. They will get better.
20   FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut   2019 Sep 19, 1:33pm  

Onvacation says
FortWayneIndiana says
It's fine for some residential uses, but application is very limited unless it gets much better.

Batteries. They will get better.


A little, not a lot.
Energy production really is not great either, it's not enough. It's not consistent, varied by weather, daylight, etc... I am not against solar, I just think it sucks for anything beyond very basic residential uses.

Which is why I think nuclear is a better investment nationally, works at night, consistent, predictable, you can run a nation on it.
21   Rin   2019 Sep 19, 1:47pm  

FortWayneIndiana says
I think nuclear is a better investment nationally


Yes, in fact, molten salt reactors can reduce waste to 300 years of containment vs 10K for other ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor
22   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Sep 19, 2:51pm  

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/16/oil-industry-electric-car-1729429
The oil industry is trying to crush the booming electric car movement.

Groups backed by industry giants like Exxon Mobil and the Koch empire are waging a state-by-state, multimillion-dollar battle to squelch utilities’ plans to build charging stations across the country. Environmentalists call the fight a reprise of the “Who Killed the Electric Car?” battles that doomed an earlier generation of battery-driven vehicles in the 1990s.

Oil-backed groups have challenged electric companies’ plans in 10 states, according to utility commission filings reviewed by POLITICO, waging regulatory and lobbying campaigns against the proposals. The showdown is taking place as utilities, eager to increase the demand for power, push for approval to build charging networks in locations such as shopping centers and rest stops in more than half the nation.
23   Heraclitusstudent   2019 Sep 19, 2:55pm  

Keep in mind: solar and wind are getting cheap now only because some people overpaid for years so investments would be made and new techs created.
Say thank you Germany, Tesla buyers, etc...

So much for people who don't believe in the necessity of, at least some degree of, top down organization.
24   HeadSet   2019 Sep 19, 4:38pm  

Solar along with a "white swan" of someone inventing a room temperature superconductor or near superconductor. Stooping line loss would greatly decrease the amount of electrical generation needed. Perhaps enough for hydro alone to provide the grid.
25   mell   2019 Sep 19, 5:50pm  

OccasionalCortex says
Patrick says
This is excellent news, a continuation of the inevitable trend toward solar. This will free us from dependence on violent Islamic regimes for oil and is much better for the environment as well


Sorry, but it is all Grade A Bulllshit.

Recommended reading:

https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B07PVV23FB&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_4hbHDbH2Y6MSE


I don't think it's an easy call for either side. That's why a mix is usually best. There are some areas made for solar or water energy. Wind is tricky ans it is technically clean but kills an incredible amount of birds bats and insect every year. I'm all for the energy mix.
26   EBGuy   2019 Sep 20, 12:12pm  

Anyone willing to finance my hot tub hydro-storage tower. Pump water up the tower with cheap electricity overnight (or with solar during the day). Paint the tower black for thermal gain. Use a low-head turbine to generate electricity during peak hours from 4-9pm while filling your gravity fed hot tub. What could possibly go wrong? EDIT: replacement gif
27   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Sep 20, 1:14pm  

Oh no that's Tigo, has to be S Amr.
28   EBGuy   2019 Sep 20, 1:28pm  

CornPoptheOriginalGangster says
Oh no that's Tigo, has to be S Amr.

The tag on giphy says Guatemala. I'm going to replace the gif.
29   mell   2019 Sep 20, 1:34pm  

TrumpingTits says
mell says
I don't think it's an easy call for either side.


It isn't about how 'cheap' solar cells are. There's a whole integrated slew of linked issues that is what makes it a boondoggle. Same with wind.


Plenty of issues on nuclear as well. Meltdowns and radioactive waste. Fission could be holy grail until then it's the energy mix where it makes most sense.
30   MisdemeanorRebel   2019 Sep 20, 1:42pm  

Molten Salt, folks. We got hundreds of tons of radioactive thorium produced as a byproduct of "Ecofriendly" Rare Earth metals refining for "Green Batteries" needed to store the power of Cell Phones and "Renewable" Energy from Wind and Solar.

Might as well use it instead of just burying it. Gotta take care of it either way, might as well get some juice out of it.

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