Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds
invite response
2019 Sep 5, 1:40pm 1,202 views 22 comments
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2
Onvacation
2019 Sep 5, 4:44pm
Onvacation
2019 Sep 5, 4:44pm
co2 is essential to the cycle of life as we know it. Much less and we will die. Much more and we will thrive. The "co2 is causing global warming" has been disproved by observation.
Pollution is bad. But co2 is not a pollutant. It is a fertilizer.
Anyone want to predict a downside to increased co2?
Pollution is bad. But co2 is not a pollutant. It is a fertilizer.
Anyone want to predict a downside to increased co2?
3
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 8:06am
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 8:06am
Onvacation says
One scientifically proven result is acidification of oceans, which is among the causes for coral bleaching.
Nothing is ever just positive or negative.
Anyone want to predict a downside to increased co2?
One scientifically proven result is acidification of oceans, which is among the causes for coral bleaching.
Nothing is ever just positive or negative.
4
just_passing_through
2019 Sep 6, 8:43am
just_passing_through
2019 Sep 6, 8:43am
6rdB says
But but... Can you really call it acidification until it gets below pH of 7?
One scientifically proven result is acidification
But but... Can you really call it acidification until it gets below pH of 7?
5
Shaman
2019 Sep 6, 8:53am
Shaman
2019 Sep 6, 8:53am
6rdB says
For a Chemistry guy, this statement is a bit off!
Onvacation saysAnyone want to predict a downside to increased co2?
One scientifically proven result is acidification of oceans, which is among the causes for coral bleaching.
Nothing is ever just positive or negative.
For a Chemistry guy, this statement is a bit off!
6
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 9:49am
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 9:49am
just_dregalicious says
Acidification is increase in [H+]
But but... Can you really call it acidification until it gets below pH of 7?
Acidification is increase in [H+]
7
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 10:10am
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 10:10am
Patrick says
That is the problem. Instead of just arguing about interpretation of facts, climate science has devolved into ideologically biased shouting match. It can not be called science any more. It is more akin to witch trials of 17th century where if you disagree with the current religious dogma, you will be tarred, feathered, and lose all your grants followed by being burned at social media stake.
But The Narrative is a religion, not science.
That is the problem. Instead of just arguing about interpretation of facts, climate science has devolved into ideologically biased shouting match. It can not be called science any more. It is more akin to witch trials of 17th century where if you disagree with the current religious dogma, you will be tarred, feathered, and lose all your grants followed by being burned at social media stake.
8
SunnyvaleCA
2019 Sep 6, 10:34am
The carbon dioxide worriers often speak of a positive feedback loop where additional earth temperature causes massive methane stores currently frozen in arctic tundra are released, which leads to further temperature, which leads to further melt, etc. Or, similarly, melting polar caps shrink and thus reflect less of the earth's energy leading to more heat and shrinkage, leading to even less reflectivity, etc.
The additional "greening" of the earth with more carbon dioxide would seem to be an example of a negative feedback loop that could stabilize the system.
The additional "greening" of the earth with more carbon dioxide would seem to be an example of a negative feedback loop that could stabilize the system.
9
Onvacation
2019 Sep 6, 10:48am
Onvacation
2019 Sep 6, 10:48am
6rdB says
You do know that the ocean is alkaline? Don'tcha?
One scientifically proven result is acidification of oceans, which is among the causes for coral bleaching.
You do know that the ocean is alkaline? Don'tcha?
10
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 10:50am
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 10:50am
Onvacation says
You do know that acidification is increase of [H+], irrelevant if we start from pH=0, pH=7.5, or pH=10?
You do know that the ocean is alkaline? Don'tcha?
You do know that acidification is increase of [H+], irrelevant if we start from pH=0, pH=7.5, or pH=10?
12
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 11:02am
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 11:02am
Onvacation says
pH is going down due to increase of [CO2], which is acidification. At neutral pH (7), shells of many marine animals will be dissolving - they need a proper pH balance. Under basic conditions, CO2 in water exists as CO3(2-); if conditions are more acidic (or less basic, which is the same) due to higher concentration of dissolved CO2, then it goes to HCO3(-). If the [(CO3)2-] is too low, shells of marine animals (which are mostly CaCO3) have hard time forming.
The current ph of the ocean is 8.1. Not exactly acidic.
pH is going down due to increase of [CO2], which is acidification. At neutral pH (7), shells of many marine animals will be dissolving - they need a proper pH balance. Under basic conditions, CO2 in water exists as CO3(2-); if conditions are more acidic (or less basic, which is the same) due to higher concentration of dissolved CO2, then it goes to HCO3(-). If the [(CO3)2-] is too low, shells of marine animals (which are mostly CaCO3) have hard time forming.
13
Ceffer
2019 Sep 6, 11:05am
Ceffer
2019 Sep 6, 11:05am
Patrick says
I'm glad to see you have finally been 'Woke Titania'd'.
But The Narrative is a religion, not science. And The Narrative says that all beings lived in peace and harmony with no predators or prey for aeons until Evil Cis White Men ejaculated all over the virgin planet. And if you dare to reply with rational argument, you're a sexist racist homophobe and must be fired, blacklisted, #metoo'd, and excluded from contributing to open source software.
I'm glad to see you have finally been 'Woke Titania'd'.
14
Onvacation
2019 Sep 6, 4:58pm
Onvacation
2019 Sep 6, 4:58pm
6rdB says
You sound quite knowledgeable. How much has the pH gone down due to manmade co2 and over what time period?
The cult of climate change, and by climate change they mean global warming caused by manmade co2 which will melt the ice and flood the world, should move on from co2 as the world's biggest problem.
pH is going down due to increase of [CO2]
You sound quite knowledgeable. How much has the pH gone down due to manmade co2 and over what time period?
The cult of climate change, and by climate change they mean global warming caused by manmade co2 which will melt the ice and flood the world, should move on from co2 as the world's biggest problem.
15
Onvacation
2019 Sep 6, 5:03pm
Onvacation
2019 Sep 6, 5:03pm
Fossil records show that there used to be rain-forests and all the abundance of life that came with it in northern Canada. The world had no icecaps and you could swim in the arctic ocean. Now it is a frozen tundra.
The climate is always changing. Life is always adapting. Humans are the most adaptable animal on earth.
The climate is always changing. Life is always adapting. Humans are the most adaptable animal on earth.
16
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Sep 6, 5:07pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Sep 6, 5:07pm
CO2 was several times what it is today, with oxygen at 10% and not ~20%, and the dinosaurs were doing just dandy. Average temp 30C and no ice caps.
17
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 5:14pm
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 5:14pm
Onvacation says
from pH ca. 8.18 to 8.07, which looks small but is quite significant as this is a logarithmic scale. This is over 200 yrs.
Onvacation says
My YUUGEST problem with climate change proponents is their inability to come up with solutions that would mitigate problem that they think will destroy us while simultaneouly not destroying life quality of everyone but top 0.01%. Producing electricity with solar batteries on North Pole and bicycling from NY to SF can not be reasonable solutions.
How much has the pH gone down due to manmade co2 and over what time period?
from pH ca. 8.18 to 8.07, which looks small but is quite significant as this is a logarithmic scale. This is over 200 yrs.
Onvacation says
The cult of climate change
My YUUGEST problem with climate change proponents is their inability to come up with solutions that would mitigate problem that they think will destroy us while simultaneouly not destroying life quality of everyone but top 0.01%. Producing electricity with solar batteries on North Pole and bicycling from NY to SF can not be reasonable solutions.
18
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 5:20pm
Bd6r
2019 Sep 6, 5:20pm
HonkpilledMaster says
Not my field, so I am not 100% sure, but there is one significant other variable - Sun luminosity. In a billion years, our descendants will be boiled because Sun intensity increases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#/media/File:Solar_evolution_(English).svg
CO2 was several times what it is today, with oxygen at 10% and not ~20%, and the dinosaurs were doing just dandy. Average temp 30C and no ice caps.
Not my field, so I am not 100% sure, but there is one significant other variable - Sun luminosity. In a billion years, our descendants will be boiled because Sun intensity increases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun#/media/File:Solar_evolution_(English).svg
20
just_passing_through
2019 Sep 6, 6:12pm
just_passing_through
2019 Sep 6, 6:12pm
Onvacation says
He is... I'm glad he clarified because I'd wondered. Generally in reef keeping we say, "don't go below 7.8", as a rule of thumb but I've gone lower for short periods with no ill effects. Target is 8.1 to 8.3 though for most corals in tanks. Also, maintaining proper alkalinity is more important and if done properly takes care of the pH most of the time.
I've never heard anyone in the hobby use the term acidification but have heard of alkalinity spikes often (opposite) which can be deadly.
I can see pH drop on my computer at times I'm home in my apartment. I'm considering porting a tube outside for my protein skimmer so my own CO2 doesn't mess with the tank.
One thing I've heard many times though is there is not enough CO2 on the planet to ever turn the ocean into an acid (<7.0).
You sound quite knowledgeable.
He is... I'm glad he clarified because I'd wondered. Generally in reef keeping we say, "don't go below 7.8", as a rule of thumb but I've gone lower for short periods with no ill effects. Target is 8.1 to 8.3 though for most corals in tanks. Also, maintaining proper alkalinity is more important and if done properly takes care of the pH most of the time.
I've never heard anyone in the hobby use the term acidification but have heard of alkalinity spikes often (opposite) which can be deadly.
I can see pH drop on my computer at times I'm home in my apartment. I'm considering porting a tube outside for my protein skimmer so my own CO2 doesn't mess with the tank.
One thing I've heard many times though is there is not enough CO2 on the planet to ever turn the ocean into an acid (<7.0).
21
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Sep 6, 6:13pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2019 Sep 6, 6:13pm
6rdB says
I've been reading about oxygen, and came across this:
From the Permian to Jurassic era, the Earth was over 1500ppm CO2, almost 3000ppm CO2. Largest land creatures in Earth history, plenty of trees.
I think everybody can guess why Global Warming Alarmists only show the last few thousand years, and not the entire Earth's History in context.
Not my field, so I am not 100% sure, but there is one significant other variable - Sun luminosity. In a billion years, our descendants will be boiled because Sun intensity increases.
I've been reading about oxygen, and came across this:
From the Permian to Jurassic era, the Earth was over 1500ppm CO2, almost 3000ppm CO2. Largest land creatures in Earth history, plenty of trees.
I think everybody can guess why Global Warming Alarmists only show the last few thousand years, and not the entire Earth's History in context.
22
Bd6r
2019 Sep 7, 7:10am
Bd6r
2019 Sep 7, 7:10am
HonkpilledMaster says
There are so many variables that changing one of them only (CO2 concentration) is pretty uninformative with respect to what happens to climate. Which is the yuugest problem with climate modeling these days, not that I can understand much of that.
From the Permian to Jurassic era, the Earth was over 1500ppm CO2, almost 3000ppm CO2. Largest land creatures in Earth history, plenty of trees.
I think everybody can guess why Global Warming Alarmists only show the last few thousand years, and not the entire Earth's History in context.
There are so many variables that changing one of them only (CO2 concentration) is pretty uninformative with respect to what happens to climate. Which is the yuugest problem with climate modeling these days, not that I can understand much of that.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth
From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25.
An international team of 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries led the effort, which involved using satellite data from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer instruments to help determine the leaf area index, or amount of leaf cover, over the planet’s vegetated regions. The greening represents an increase in leaves on plants and trees equivalent in area to two times the continental United States.
Results showed that carbon dioxide fertilization explains 70 percent of the greening effect, said co-author Ranga Myneni, a professor in the Department of Earth and Environment at Boston University. “The second most important driver is nitrogen, at 9 percent. So we see what an outsized role CO2 plays in this process.”
Every year, about half of the 10 billion tons of carbon emitted into the atmosphere from human activities remains temporarily stored, in about equal parts, in the oceans and plants.